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Post by stiggerstackle on Jan 2, 2024 11:46:46 GMT
So why when I said that yesterday were you intimating we didn't? There’s a difference between needing a new keeper to take us to the next level and having a perfectly competent keeper doing a decent job as a number two at the moment though. Some people don’t seem to be able to separate the two……. I'm completely bloody confused. I've said Bonham has performed well as Travers back-up, and far better than I expected. I've also said that Bonham can only be a back-up keeper (for me, as it is all about opinions after all) as he has a mistake in him too often and we need a new long-term No 1 to take us forward. Exactly what is it that I and others seem to be unable to separate?
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Post by prestwichpotter on Jan 2, 2024 12:03:24 GMT
There’s a difference between needing a new keeper to take us to the next level and having a perfectly competent keeper doing a decent job as a number two at the moment though. Some people don’t seem to be able to separate the two……. I'm completely bloody confused. I've said Bonham has performed well as Travers back-up, and far better than I expected. I've also said that Bonham can only be a back-up keeper (for me, as it is all about opinions after all) as he has a mistake in him too often and we need a new long-term No 1 to take us forward. Exactly what is it that I and others seem to be unable to separate? I wasn’t specifically referring to you more making a general point. But some people have backed themselves so far into a corner regarding Bonham they’ve resorted to analysing his every move to highlight deficiencies in his game, when the reality is he’s doing just fine in the main…..
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Post by stiggerstackle on Jan 2, 2024 12:14:31 GMT
I'm completely bloody confused. I've said Bonham has performed well as Travers back-up, and far better than I expected. I've also said that Bonham can only be a back-up keeper (for me, as it is all about opinions after all) as he has a mistake in him too often and we need a new long-term No 1 to take us forward. Exactly what is it that I and others seem to be unable to separate? I wasn’t specifically referring to you more making a general point. But some people have backed themselves so far into a corner regarding Bonham they’ve resorted to analysing his every move to highlight deficiencies in his game, when the reality is he’s doing just fine in the main….. Gotcha, fair do's mate, same on virtually any topic
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Post by Malcolm Clarke on Jan 2, 2024 12:17:35 GMT
I'm completely bloody confused. I've said Bonham has performed well as Travers back-up, and far better than I expected. I've also said that Bonham can only be a back-up keeper (for me, as it is all about opinions after all) as he has a mistake in him too often and we need a new long-term No 1 to take us forward. Exactly what is it that I and others seem to be unable to separate? I wasn’t specifically referring to you more making a general point. But some people have backed themselves so far into a corner regarding Bonham they’ve resorted to analysing his every move to highlight deficiencies in his game, when the reality is he’s doing just fine in the main….. I agree. Bonham's form since Travers left has been very good including a couple of M of M performances. He's comfortably a Championship level keeper IMHO. All keepers, including Travers, make mistakes sometimes. Of course we need another keeper because you need cover and competition in every position, and it's probably too soon to expect Simpkin to provide that at this level. If the Club can find a keeper who is available and willing to come, who is even better than Jack - then obviously fine. If not, then I don't think Bonham is a major cause for concern.
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Post by mickstupp on Jan 2, 2024 12:20:22 GMT
Everyone knows we need a new goalkeeper. Everyone. So why when I said that yesterday were you intimating we didn't? There’s no depth to the goalkeeping department at the club. If Bonham were to get injured we are looking at young Simpkin who’s talented but nowhere near ready. I just don’t subscribe to this theory that Bonham is a poor understudy. He’s done really well since he came into the team.
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Post by prestwichpotter on Jan 2, 2024 12:25:26 GMT
I wasn’t specifically referring to you more making a general point. But some people have backed themselves so far into a corner regarding Bonham they’ve resorted to analysing his every move to highlight deficiencies in his game, when the reality is he’s doing just fine in the main….. I agree. Bonham's form since Travers left has been very good including a couple of M of M performances. He's comfortably a Championship level keeper IMHO. All keepers, including Travers, make mistakes sometimes. Of course we need another keeper because you need cover and competition in every position, and it's probably too soon to expect Simpkin to provide that at this level. If the Club can find a keeper who is available and willing to come, who is even better than Jack - then obviously fine. If not, then I don't think Bonham is a major cause for concern. I like Travers but he’s from a breed of keepers that never come off their line, because of this they rarely make high profile mistakes, but neither do they put their body on the line when it’s needed. If you think of arguably the Premier League’s best keeper Peter Schmeichel, he made 2 or 3 howlers a season which was offset by how well he policed his domain in general…..
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Post by apb1 on Jan 2, 2024 12:28:39 GMT
We need a better keeper than Jack to push on. But he's played much more capably than I was expecting in the post-Travers period. Some logic to the 'new person might have to wait' argument but that only applies if he is not clearly and obviously an upgrade, and if he's not, then I'll be very disappointed!
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Post by Trouserdog on Jan 2, 2024 13:27:40 GMT
Bonham, despite a couple of disasters, has been pretty decent overall. As good as you could expect from a back-up keeper anyway.
He's basically a League One goalie who'll do a job for a few games at this level, and to be honest has earned his place as a long-term second choice keeper for us while we're in the Championship.
If we're serious about getting anywhere though, we need someone who isn't going to do something stupid every fourth or fifth game.
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Post by prestwichpotter on Jan 2, 2024 14:13:52 GMT
Bonham, despite a couple of disasters, has been pretty decent overall. As good as you could expect from a back-up keeper anyway. He's basically a League One goalie who'll do a job for a few games at this level, and to be honest has earned his place as a long-term second choice keeper for us while we're in the Championship. If we're serious about getting anywhere though, we need someone who isn't going to do something stupid every fourth or fifth game. He must be due a blunder soon then as since his error against Swansea in the 5 games afterwards he's hardly put a foot wrong.............
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jan 2, 2024 14:27:25 GMT
They do. We haven’t had a good goalie since Bego. Incorrect, pre injury Butland was as good if not better then Bego. Butland had one good season. Flash in the pan stuff.
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Post by Malcolm Clarke on Jan 2, 2024 14:39:34 GMT
Bonham, despite a couple of disasters, has been pretty decent overall. As good as you could expect from a back-up keeper anyway. He's basically a League One goalie who'll do a job for a few games at this level, and to be honest has earned his place as a long-term second choice keeper for us while we're in the Championship. If we're serious about getting anywhere though, we need someone who isn't going to do something stupid every fourth or fifth game. He must be due a blunder soon then as since his error against Swansea in the 5 games afterwards he's hardly put a foot wrong............. Very true. I think all keepers (including Travers) make mistakes, as of course do outfield players, but keepers mistakes tend to be more highlighted. Even the Swansea mistake wasn't just down to him. Yes, he missed the cross, but the guy still shouldn't have been allowed a free header by our back line. And he followed that up with a M of M performance at the Hawthorns in the next game. IMHO he's definitely Championship level. We need a 2nd keeper for cover and competition, but we are a lower second tier club at the moment, so we are not going to get, or be able to afford, the 2024 equivalent of Gordon Banks.
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Post by prestwichpotter on Jan 2, 2024 15:03:27 GMT
He must be due a blunder soon then as since his error against Swansea in the 5 games afterwards he's hardly put a foot wrong............. Very true. I think all keepers (including Travers) make mistakes, as of course do outfield players, but keepers mistakes tend to be more highlighted. Even the Swansea mistake wasn't just down to him. Yes, he missed the cross, but the guy still shouldn't have been allowed a free header by our back line. And he followed that up with a M of M performance at the Hawthorns in the next game. IMHO he's definitely Championship level. We need a 2nd keeper for cover and competition, but we are a lower second tier club at the moment, so we are not going to get, or be able to afford, the 2024 equivalent of Gordon Banks. Bonham’s error against Swansea would have just been a consolation if we hadn’t been so wasteful in the final third….
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Post by Trouserdog on Jan 2, 2024 15:14:54 GMT
Bonham, despite a couple of disasters, has been pretty decent overall. As good as you could expect from a back-up keeper anyway. He's basically a League One goalie who'll do a job for a few games at this level, and to be honest has earned his place as a long-term second choice keeper for us while we're in the Championship. If we're serious about getting anywhere though, we need someone who isn't going to do something stupid every fourth or fifth game. He must be due a blunder soon then as since his error against Swansea in the 5 games afterwards he's hardly put a foot wrong............. I'm fully expecting one! This is the thing with players like Bonham- we can get lulled into a false sense of security when they have a few decent games on the bounce. Before you know it though, he's flapped at a cross like a man on fire, dived over a ball trickling at 2 mph and soiled himself in public. All probably in the same incident. Then we're asking questions about why we haven't got a proper first-choice goalkeeper.
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Post by prestwichpotter on Jan 2, 2024 15:20:46 GMT
He must be due a blunder soon then as since his error against Swansea in the 5 games afterwards he's hardly put a foot wrong............. I'm fully expecting one! This is the thing with players like Bonham- we can get lulled into a false sense of security when they have a few decent games on the bounce. Before you know it though, he's flapped at a cross like a man on fire, dived over a ball trickling at 2 mph and soiled himself in public. All probably in the same incident. Then we're asking questions about why we haven't got a proper first-choice goalkeeper. I don’t think we have a player in the squad that has any higher levels of consistency anywhere across the park though, it’s where we’re at as a team. Bonham has made one glaring error (Swansea) and a couple of shots that he arguably should have done better with (both games were lost already trusty he told), the type of error you describe I just don’t see from him that’s the bit I don’t get when it comes to people’s perception of him…..
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Post by Trouserdog on Jan 2, 2024 15:33:59 GMT
I'm fully expecting one! This is the thing with players like Bonham- we can get lulled into a false sense of security when they have a few decent games on the bounce. Before you know it though, he's flapped at a cross like a man on fire, dived over a ball trickling at 2 mph and soiled himself in public. All probably in the same incident. Then we're asking questions about why we haven't got a proper first-choice goalkeeper. I don’t think we have a player in the squad that has any higher levels of consistency anywhere across the park though, it’s where we’re at as a team. Bonham has made one glaring error (Swansea) and a couple of shots that he arguably should have done better with (both games were lost already trusty he told), the type of error you describe I just don’t see from him that’s the bit I don’t get when it comes to people’s perception of him….. Over the course of his time with us, he's been error-prone. I can't list all the mistakes he's made (my memory isn't that good) but over the last few seasons he's always been the same- a few good games then something really bad. (Was it the Blackburn game this year when he palmed a pathetic shot straight to their striker? My 10-year-old would have dealt with it better.) I don't think he's as bad as some people make out, but we're going nowhere with a keeper like that as first choice. How many mistakes did someone like Steve Simonsen make over the course of a season? (I use him as a yardstick rather than someone like Begovic as it's a fairer comparison.) The answer is not many at all, yet Pulis still took the chance to upgrade him and loaned in Carlo Nash. We have to think with a bit of ambition and not just accept players who 'aren't that bad' as first choices. While we are where we are, there's going to be room in the squad for players like Bonham, but if we're going to accept their level as first-team material, we'll be stuck where we are for a good while.
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Post by prestwichpotter on Jan 2, 2024 15:39:10 GMT
I don’t think we have a player in the squad that has any higher levels of consistency anywhere across the park though, it’s where we’re at as a team. Bonham has made one glaring error (Swansea) and a couple of shots that he arguably should have done better with (both games were lost already trusty he told), the type of error you describe I just don’t see from him that’s the bit I don’t get when it comes to people’s perception of him….. Over the course of his time with us, he's been error-prone. I can't list all the mistakes he's made (my memory isn't that good) but over the last few seasons he's always been the same- a few good games then something really bad. (Was it the Blackburn game this year when he palmed a pathetic shot straight to their striker? My 10-year-old would have dealt with it better.) I don't think he's as bad as some people make out, but we're going nowhere with a keeper like that as first choice. How many mistakes did someone like Steve Simonsen make over the course of a season? (I use him as a yardstick rather than someone like Begovic as it's a fairer comparison.) The answer is not many at all, yet Pulis still took the chance to upgrade him and loaned in Carlo Nash. We have to think with a bit of ambition and not just accept players who 'aren't that bad' as first choices. While we are where we are, there's going to be room in the squad for players like Bonham, but if we're going to accept their level as first-team material, we'll be stuck where we are for a good while. He seems to have improved massively under Jonathon Gould and hopefully that will continue under the new guy. As far as I’m concerned the past is the past and since he came back in 12/13 games ago he’s been really good in the main. If we still have FFP limitations we will have potentially difficult decisions to make prioritising one position over another. I’d take a new left back, left wide player or target man over a GK every day of the week as it stands……
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Post by mcw on Jan 2, 2024 15:45:25 GMT
Bonham has been more than adequate since Travers was recalled. As various people have pointed out, goalkeepers of any quality will make errors it is inevitable and it is how they bounce back that is the key consideration. He was as fault re the Swansea equalizer but has looked unfazed and totally competent since then. I am struggling to think what or how a different "big" name keeper would have benefited us from that game onwards. However we need somebody of comparable or better quality to provide competition given the pool of keepers we have assembled beneath him. I am not quite sure what purpose Frank Fielding is serving, other than team non-football related games co-ordinator and all round good egg from the sounds of it, other than maybe being an example of how to train for the youngsters. Either way we need more depth and Jack is not one of our problem areas.
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Post by Seymour Beaver on Jan 2, 2024 15:47:26 GMT
I think Bonham is much maligned. He's been fine since be came back after Travers left.
However we can't go into the second half of the season with only a crocked Fielding and a teenage Simpkin as cover.
We need another fit experienced GK in the squad - and if that's one who competes for #1 and gets there on merit all the better.
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Post by cvillestokie on Jan 2, 2024 16:15:01 GMT
Bonham has been more than adequate since Travers was recalled. As various people have pointed out, goalkeepers of any quality will make errors it is inevitable and it is how they bounce back that is the key consideration. He was as fault re the Swansea equalizer but has looked unfazed and totally competent since then. I am struggling to think what or how a different "big" name keeper would have benefited us from that game onwards. However we need somebody of comparable or better quality to provide competition given the pool of keepers we have assembled beneath him. I am not quite sure what purpose Frank Fielding is serving, other than team non-football related games co-ordinator and all round good egg from the sounds of it, other than maybe being an example of how to train for the youngsters. Either way we need more depth and Jack is not one of our problem areas. I believe that it was Lee Grant who provided an interview before that discussed the role of a third choice goalkeeper. Essentially, they are there to give the other two a rest in training as diving on the floor all day is a great way to increase injury risk. They are generally supposed to be cheap and better at shot stopping than the U21s + the better U21s are usually training with the goalkeeping coach rather than filling in at shooting practice. It seems like they play important roles for the squad without being that overly useful for the matchday (unless in emergency).
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Post by nonameface on Jan 2, 2024 19:31:24 GMT
generally feels like the tide is turning for Bonham. Famous last words?
Before this season the thought of signing Iversen or Travers on loan was a great step forward. Now they don't really offer anything better than Bonham.
We either need someone better than him who can act as an understudy but who is further along than Simkin. The new zealand lad?
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