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Post by spitthedog on Nov 7, 2023 10:24:34 GMT
Pre VAR if a team had a goal that either went for them or against them the managers would scream we need VAR It’s exactly the same now only in reverse They are all hypocrites just like supporters who laugh then it goes against a team they don’t like If arsenal score a similar goal on Saturday do we think Arteta will condemn the ref then?….no he’ll say they were due some luck There has always been controversy and sense of injustice over decision making, but VAR has brought this idea that this process can now be 100% objective and 'correct' and it clearly does not work in football, plus we have to endure up to 20 minutes per game of standing around to realise that this cant be the case. VAR has introduced new layers of 'distortions of reality' to the game with freeze frames and slow mo replays which often result in decisions that would previously not even have been debated and then just create more controversies and frustrations. Add to this the fact refs are chickening out of making decisions (not trusting their own judgements) and waiting for VAR to resolve them and you have an almighty mess, but as you say, Sky love it, so its not going anywhere soon! ....and don't start me on how the players are conducting themselves!
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Post by juiceandbits on Nov 7, 2023 11:03:49 GMT
After the in-the-moment excitement and drama on reflection the time to make decisions is becoming ridiculous and will only get worse as the pressure and criticism on referees increases and decisions are scrutinised more.
Ange was right last night to say that referees are thing undermined and that’s creating a vicious cycle. The time to make Dickson is becoming ridiculous especially those line the red card that was clear after seeing it once.
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Post by Vadiation_Ribe on Nov 7, 2023 11:33:40 GMT
Pre VAR if a team had a goal that either went for them or against them the managers would scream we need VAR It’s exactly the same now only in reverse They are all hypocrites just like supporters who laugh then it goes against a team they don’t like If arsenal score a similar goal on Saturday do we think Arteta will condemn the ref then?….no he’ll say they were due some luck There has always been controversy and sense of injustice over decision making, but VAR has brought this idea that this process can now be 100% objective and 'correct' and it clearly does not work in football, plus we have to endure up to 20 minutes per game of standing around to realise that this cant be the case. VAR has introduced new layers of 'distortions of reality' to the game with freeze frames and slow mo replays which often result in decisions that would previously not even have been debated and then just create more controversies and frustrations. Add to this the fact refs are chickening out of making decisions (not trusting their own judgements) and waiting for VAR to resolve them and you have an almighty mess, but as you say, Sky love it, so its not going anywhere soon! ....and don't start me on how the players are conducting themselves! It'll never happen, but I don't think freeze frame or slow motion should be allowed. It makes any tackle or contact (with the ball or another player) look far worse.
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Post by spitthedog on Nov 7, 2023 13:48:33 GMT
There has always been controversy and sense of injustice over decision making, but VAR has brought this idea that this process can now be 100% objective and 'correct' and it clearly does not work in football, plus we have to endure up to 20 minutes per game of standing around to realise that this cant be the case. VAR has introduced new layers of 'distortions of reality' to the game with freeze frames and slow mo replays which often result in decisions that would previously not even have been debated and then just create more controversies and frustrations. Add to this the fact refs are chickening out of making decisions (not trusting their own judgements) and waiting for VAR to resolve them and you have an almighty mess, but as you say, Sky love it, so its not going anywhere soon! ....and don't start me on how the players are conducting themselves! It'll never happen, but I don't think freeze frame or slow motion should be allowed. It makes any tackle or contact (with the ball or another player) look far worse. Agree. It certainly distorts reality, so why would anyone want to make a decision on something which doesn't reflect the reality of what happens? You could probably freeze most tackles, or physical contact, at some millisecond moment and make it look like something bad is happening. Amazed that it doesn't get raised as an issue in the football authorities. Plus if you have to look at something 10 times in slow motion, just forget it, and get on with it! We have always moaned about refs but from my experience we always accepted when the ref missed something. It happens. 'It all evens out in the end' mentality needs to revitalised imo.
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Post by nottsover60 on Nov 7, 2023 13:56:13 GMT
It'll never happen, but I don't think freeze frame or slow motion should be allowed. It makes any tackle or contact (with the ball or another player) look far worse. Agree. It certainly distorts reality, so why would anyone want to make a decision on something which doesn't reflect the reality of what happens? You could probably freeze most tackles, or physical contact, at some millisecond moment and make it look like something bad is happening. Amazed that it doesn't get raised as an issue in the football authorities. Plus if you have to look at something 10 times in slow motion, just forget it, and get on with it! We have always moaned about refs but from my experience we always accepted when the ref missed something. It happens. 'It all evens out in the end' mentality needs to revitalised imo. VAR would be fine if it was used for it's original purpose - to check for clear and obvious refereeing errors leading to game changing decisions. If you need to spend five minutes checking from different angles, slow motion replays and freeze frames then the error is not clear or obvious and therefore the on field refereeing decision stands.
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Post by jesusmcmuffin on Nov 7, 2023 14:09:39 GMT
Agree. It certainly distorts reality, so why would anyone want to make a decision on something which doesn't reflect the reality of what happens? You could probably freeze most tackles, or physical contact, at some millisecond moment and make it look like something bad is happening. Amazed that it doesn't get raised as an issue in the football authorities. Plus if you have to look at something 10 times in slow motion, just forget it, and get on with it! We have always moaned about refs but from my experience we always accepted when the ref missed something. It happens. 'It all evens out in the end' mentality needs to revitalised imo. VAR would be fine if it was used for it's original purpose - to check for clear and obvious refereeing errors leading to game changing decisions. If you need to spend five minutes checking from different angles, slow motion replays and freeze frames then the error is not clear or obvious and therefore the on field refereeing decision stands. Yep..if not visible to the eye, clear and obvious then away we go. Last night was an exception as so much going off and the goals were offside ..5 of them was it? The other argument is that offside is offside
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Post by LphPotter on Nov 7, 2023 15:18:42 GMT
They make it work abroad. It's the idiots in the English game running it that are the issue. Our referees are terrible so no wonder the VAR is - it's the same blokes running it. I would never have brought it in other than goal line technology. It isn't going anywhere, we're stuck with it. Do they? The Spanish fans hate it from what I see on Twitter. A lot of people say that the mistakes only happen here but it’s a massive misconception, Spain as you say is probably the worst, some of the penalties that get given over there are ridiculous. It’s just as bad in every country as it is over here.
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Post by smallthorner on Nov 7, 2023 19:03:10 GMT
It's cluckin horrible. We will be having quarters soon and reviews on decisions. Then there will be injury time set subs similar to rugby.
Goal line technology should be the only outside interference imo.
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MooG
Youth Player
Only the wisest and stupidest of men never change.
Posts: 492
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Post by MooG on Nov 7, 2023 21:48:33 GMT
I like the idea of VAR but think that, paradoxically, it is a mistake to have it run by top refs.
It was sold as being to fix obvious errors but, being proper refs, the VAR are always trying to re-referee the game, or are reluctant to say their mates have ballsed it up..
Going back to the basic idea would help because if you can't spot an error in, say 30 seconds, it isn't obvious.
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Post by smallthorner on Nov 7, 2023 22:39:13 GMT
I like the idea of VAR but think that, paradoxically, it is a mistake to have it run by top refs. It was sold as being to fix obvious errors but, being proper refs, the VAR are always trying to re-referee the game, or are reluctant to say their mates have ballsed it up.. Going back to the basic idea would help because if you can't spot an error in, say 30 seconds, it isn't obvious. Understand what you are saying but think it's one of those matters that either warrants on the spot decisions or detailed investigation ...😊
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emretezzy
Youth Player
Posts: 434
Member is Online
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Post by emretezzy on Nov 7, 2023 23:13:39 GMT
I would let the Officiating team ref and unless there is an absolute glaring error.
Clearly Offside (daylight between players)
Dive.
Clear Red Card missed.
Then it's just the refs job to look after the game and officiate it without the safety net or backdrop of not wanting to make decisions.
The other thing I would introduce is absolute no tolerance of abuse both in the game and retrospectively towards officials.
Swear/moan yellow card. Do it again Red.
Moan after the game or blame them. Touchline bans.
Make officiating a proud/rewarding job that if treated with respect and I am certain the standards will improve.
I think the standard in our league is absolutely abysmal but I would have the same standards and introduce the high threshold VAR to eradicate the absolutely galling errors.
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Post by crouchpotato1 on Nov 7, 2023 23:30:00 GMT
🤣🤣
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Post by PotterLog on Nov 8, 2023 0:58:28 GMT
A depressing number of people are going to think that’s real.
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Post by werrington on Nov 8, 2023 4:41:33 GMT
I would let the Officiating team ref and unless there is an absolute glaring error. Clearly Offside (daylight between players) Dive. Clear Red Card missed. Then it's just the refs job to look after the game and officiate it without the safety net or backdrop of not wanting to make decisions. The other thing I would introduce is absolute no tolerance of abuse both in the game and retrospectively towards officials. Swear/moan yellow card. Do it again Red. Moan after the game or blame them. Touchline bans. Make officiating a proud/rewarding job that if treated with respect and I am certain the standards will improve. I think the standard in our league is absolutely abysmal but I would have the same standards and introduce the high threshold VAR to eradicate the absolutely galling errors. Even clear daylight will go down to lines being drawn from the last point of an attacker to the first point of the defender with the thread of a shirt determining offside It’ll always be drawn lines no matter the rule
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Post by scfcnicholas on Nov 8, 2023 4:56:56 GMT
The way Arteta conducted himself post match interview is an absolute disgrace. The entitlement is unmatched. None of them were even incorrect calls. Blaming VAR and officials because he fell the wrong (correct) side of marginal decisions.
Refereeing is a thankless task, with impossible standards, no one is ever apparently good enough in the world as a ref according to most people because you always end up upsetting someone. And then you get high profile dickheads like him throwing their toys out the pram blaming them when in this case there’s nothing to blame them for.
I can almost understand why they didn’t make public statements releasing audio conversations etc up until recently as nothing is ever apparently good enough and it just seems to make matters worse opening a right can of worms.
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Post by franklin on Nov 8, 2023 9:06:18 GMT
I'd bin it off completely other than the goal line tech, it's embarrassingly shit. I'd much rather leave it to refs on field to officiate the game.
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Nov 8, 2023 9:52:19 GMT
I'd bin it off completely other than the goal line tech, it's embarrassingly shit. I'd much rather leave it to refs on field to officiate the game. I'd tend to agree with you. Maybe just use it for off sides only and whilst they're at it change off side to any part of the attacker being onside. Yellows and reds and all that bollox has to be the ref and assistants call live on the day.
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Post by spitthedog on Nov 8, 2023 10:51:06 GMT
Do they? The Spanish fans hate it from what I see on Twitter. A lot of people say that the mistakes only happen here but it’s a massive misconception, Spain as you say is probably the worst, some of the penalties that get given over there are ridiculous. It’s just as bad in every country as it is over here. Also in Spain the players are far worse for exploiting VAR. For example, they will make sure there is some contact with a defender in the box and go down so that when they freeze frame it , it looks like a foul when in fact the attacking player has run into the contact intentionally. In a freeze frame you cannot pick up this intention, as it looks like the defender is obstructing the attacker. VAR has opened up opportunities which are making the game worse imo.
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Post by leicspotter on Nov 8, 2023 13:25:34 GMT
A lot of people say that the mistakes only happen here but it’s a massive misconception, Spain as you say is probably the worst, some of the penalties that get given over there are ridiculous. It’s just as bad in every country as it is over here. Also in Spain the players are far worse for exploiting VAR. For example, they will make sure there is some contact with a defender in the box and go down so that when they freeze frame it , it looks like a foul when in fact the attacking player has run into the contact intentionally. In a freeze frame you cannot pick up this intention, as it looks like the defender is obstructing the attacker. VAR has opened up opportunities which are making the game worse imo. Whatever the rule, whatever the law, someone will always look for an edge. In footie it's cheating players trying to con refs, in life it's people with money employing that lawyer, Mr Loophole...
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Post by spitthedog on Nov 8, 2023 13:30:35 GMT
Also in Spain the players are far worse for exploiting VAR. For example, they will make sure there is some contact with a defender in the box and go down so that when they freeze frame it , it looks like a foul when in fact the attacking player has run into the contact intentionally. In a freeze frame you cannot pick up this intention, as it looks like the defender is obstructing the attacker. VAR has opened up opportunities which are making the game worse imo. Whatever the rule, whatever the law, someone will always look for an edge. In footie it's cheating players trying to con refs, in life it's people with money employing that lawyer, Mr Loophole... Agreed. So why create more loopholes?
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Post by leicspotter on Nov 8, 2023 13:34:21 GMT
Whatever the rule, whatever the law, someone will always look for an edge. In footie it's cheating players trying to con refs, in life it's people with money employing that lawyer, Mr Loophole... Agreed. So why create more loopholes? Exactly
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Post by marylandstoke on Nov 8, 2023 13:36:29 GMT
A depressing number of people are going to think that’s real. All 89 cameras and that’s the best angle we’ve got
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Post by werrington on Nov 9, 2023 7:09:55 GMT
SSN are going to town on it again this morning by asking people to leave their comments and running a poll ….they absolutely love it with another show dominated by it
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Post by nottsover60 on Nov 9, 2023 8:21:36 GMT
VAR would be fine if it was used for it's original purpose - to check for clear and obvious refereeing errors leading to game changing decisions. If you need to spend five minutes checking from different angles, slow motion replays and freeze frames then the error is not clear or obvious and therefore the on field refereeing decision stands. Yep..if not visible to the eye, clear and obvious then away we go. Last night was an exception as so much going off and the goals were offside ..5 of them was it? The other argument is that offside is offside Either you have offside or you drop it altogether. This half way house is nonsense. So many goals now are scored by a player who was offside when the original ball was played to another player who then runs to the by line and pulls the ball back to this 'offside' player. How did he not have an advantage by being offside on the original pass - he had a yard on the defenders who had to race to get back. Kane is a master at this which negates his lack of pace.
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Post by crouchpotato1 on Nov 9, 2023 14:12:40 GMT
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Post by bayernoatcake on Nov 9, 2023 14:15:06 GMT
It was, I’m not sure what the fuss is about.
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Post by scfcnicholas on Nov 9, 2023 15:35:04 GMT
Just goes to show what a dickhead Arteta is. Everybody’s fault but his teams. Deflect, deflect, deflect.
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Post by scfcnicholas on Mar 24, 2024 22:36:06 GMT
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Mar 24, 2024 23:05:31 GMT
Just goes to show what a dickhead Arteta is. Everybody’s fault but his teams. Deflect, deflect, deflect. I will like any post where someone refers to Artita as a dickhead 😆
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Post by idle on Mar 25, 2024 7:50:15 GMT
Citation needed. Big time.
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