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Post by JoeinOz on Nov 5, 2023 7:00:42 GMT
How do you feel about it? For or against?
Please give reasons for your viewpoint. Also, I know this is difficult, but please try and avoid being partisan. It was hilarious when Chelsea had that equaliser riled out in the cup final but try and avoid those feelings in response. 🙂
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Post by wuzza on Nov 5, 2023 7:52:30 GMT
Its abysmal - takes all the natural flow and momentum from a game. Football is a simple game not suited to microscopically analysed scrutiny of events (it’s bad enough listening to the post match guff from supposed experts without having the same sort of nonsense influencing the results of games). Goal line technology is fine - quick easy and non debatable - the rest should be binned pronto.
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Post by walrus on Nov 5, 2023 7:55:27 GMT
I think it’s largely failed and I’d be happy to see it abolished.
Because of the nuanced nature of football laws we’re seeing no less refereeing controversy than we were before it was introduced, and if anything more as the level of scrutiny is now greater. The notion of correcting “clear and obvious” errors to protect the referees’ subjective judgment calls is all well and good in theory but falls down in practice because judging whether a decision was a clear and obvious error is itself often a subjective judgment call.
It’s forced changes to laws, especially around handball, which have done nothing but cause confusion and controversy.
It’s applied an “accountancy mindset” to football where the pursuit of technical correctness is valued more than entertainment or joy, even though that technical correctness is often impossible to achieve, which is why we see VAR checks taking upwards of five minutes.
Obviously there are instances when a glaring injustice is corrected which is clearly a desirable outcome but for me that doesn’t outweigh all the negatives enough to make me think we wouldn’t be better off without it.
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Post by figo85 on Nov 5, 2023 7:59:40 GMT
Maybe introduce a review system, similar to cricket ? Don’t agree with a decision, use as review to have it viewed upstairs as the game continues. Should those upstairs agree, then they bring it back. Time limit on decision making, if it’s not clear after a 30 second review, then foul/offside etc not given.
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Post by lawrieleslie on Nov 5, 2023 8:01:22 GMT
Decisions should be left to the ref regarding fouls & offside. Goal line technology is black & white and is a good thing. VAR has taken away the old post match talking points and debate, although it has introduced a different kind of discussion that we are having now. VAR should only be used to identify cheats, divers & con artists imo.
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Post by Olgrligm on Nov 5, 2023 8:04:44 GMT
I think it’s largely failed and I’d be happy to see it abolished. Because of the nuanced nature of football laws we’re seeing no less refereeing controversy than we were before it was introduced, and if anything more as the level of scrutiny is now greater. The notion of correcting “clear and obvious” errors to protect the referees’ subjective judgment calls is all well and good in theory but falls down in practice because judging whether a decision was a clear and obvious error is itself often a subjective judgment call. It’s forced changes to laws, especially around handball, which have done nothing but cause confusion and controversy. It’s applied an “accountancy mindset” to football where the pursuit of technical correctness is valued more than entertainment or joy, even though that technical correctness is often impossible to achieve, which is why we see VAR checks taking upwards of five minutes. Obviously there are instances when a glaring injustice is corrected which is clearly a desirable outcome but for me that doesn’t outweigh all the negatives enough to make me think we wouldn’t be better off without it. This articulates it better than I could. The laws of the game are very subjective and ultimately, the people making the VAR decisions are the same group of people making the decisions on the pitch. Even the offside system is problematic. Firstly, they will check a player's position down to the tiniest level, but I've not seen any scrutiny given as to whether the freezeframe is actually at the exact moment the ball is kicked. Then you have the fact that any part of the player in an offside position is offside. This removes a lot of the skill of playing off the last man, as your left hand being slightly in front of a man six yards away is not really something that you have control over. The idea was supposed to be that it eliminates controversial decisions, but I now see headlines about VAR every week. Let us enjoy the game organically without VAR breaks.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Nov 5, 2023 8:05:29 GMT
It’s shit and should never have been bought in.
All very obvious stuff.
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Post by questionable on Nov 5, 2023 8:13:11 GMT
Just keep it for the ball crossing the goal post lines.
The referees and their assistants get paid to do the rest, even with VAR they’re dropping major clangers and it’s easier for them to blame the bloke on the camera’s.
We’ve been on the end of countless bad decisions
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Post by Block 26 on Nov 5, 2023 8:41:49 GMT
IMO it has ruined the atmosphere, nobody dares to celebrate a goal anymore until they’ve waited 3 minutes for the VAR check to be done.
However, it really has balanced the game out. Do we really want to go back to a Man Utd, City or Liverpool player throwing themselves to the ground & getting a penalty every game?
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Post by Gods on Nov 5, 2023 8:46:04 GMT
I reckon the VAR genie is out of the bottle. You can't put it back now. The first time a goal is scored which was self evidently from the TV cameras a yard offside World War 3 would break out.
I mean that's how it came about. The TV audience, which is most of the audience, could see blatant mistakes in super slo-mo.
No way can it be put back. Modified or limited in scope perhaps.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Nov 5, 2023 8:56:29 GMT
I reckon the VAR genie is out of the bottle. You can't put it back now. The first time a goal is scored which was self evidently from the TV cameras a yard offside World War 3 would break out. I mean that's how it came about. The TV audience, which is most of the audience, could see blatant mistakes in super slo-mo. No way can it be put back. Modified or limited in scope perhaps. Why can’t you? Most people seem to hate it. I think it’d be forgotten about pretty easily.
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Post by thepottypotter on Nov 5, 2023 8:58:04 GMT
There is a negative, cognitive bias with all of this. No-one praises it when it makes the correct decisions. It doesn't sell newspapers or grab headlines.
It's like customer service. When it is going well, very few people write glowing reviews. Yet if a service is poor, item not received etc, all hell breaks loose - people complain, write negative reviews all over the internet etc.
I love VAR. Overall the decisions are better. Yes there is controversy. This is as a result of the decisions being better, the few mistakes stand out more in the the higher level of scrutiny
We are in the 21st century, all other sports incorporate similar technology successfully and football can improve too. It just about better training.
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Post by lordb on Nov 5, 2023 9:10:59 GMT
8f it could be sped up -, a decision at Bournemouth last week took over 5 minutes - then it would be a lot better
I quite like the suggestion of reviews
It seems to work better 8n international football than in club football, not sure why that 8s
Overall atm it doesn't work bin it off but maybe bring it back in the future when it's shown to work much better
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Post by xchpotter on Nov 5, 2023 9:21:55 GMT
As clunky and disruptive as it is, I still think it gets more decisions right than wrong. Because it has so much media coverage and put itself on a pedestal, it will always be shot down.
Let’s not forget the same absolutely shocking and incompetent decisions were made by officials before VAR, the difference is the coverage and what would’ve been seen as targeting of an individual if you highlighted all the poor ref decisions. Whilst there is a person behind VAR, you rarely see that individual named and hounded by the media, it’s just VAR as a whole that gets the hassle so it’s almost a soft target as some perceive it as no one can get hurt. If you hounded a named ref for the same errors, many would find it unpalatable then there would be calls to respect the ref etc.
Bottom line is, officiating has gone down hill since they were professionalised ironically. There should be improvements in them and VAR processes because after all, we want the right and fair decisions to be made…..don’t we? By and large I think we get that with VAR, it’s just much easier to blame it on them now than it was before when worse decision were made.
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Post by Clayton Wood on Nov 5, 2023 9:22:43 GMT
I reckon the VAR genie is out of the bottle. You can't put it back now. The first time a goal is scored which was self evidently from the TV cameras a yard offside World War 3 would break out. I mean that's how it came about. The TV audience, which is most of the audience, could see blatant mistakes in super slo-mo. No way can it be put back. Modified or limited in scope perhaps. As it's topical why not go full AI? No ref/lino(s). just camera angles instantly checking play with the whistle sounded over the tanoy. Cards displayed on the big screens. No ref to surround or argue with. Takes big team bias out of decision making. I started this as a bit of a laugh but the more I think about it... (Downside 'Who's the bastard in the black' would have to change to who's the bastard chip on the motherboard )
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Post by jesusmcmuffin on Nov 5, 2023 9:28:03 GMT
After upsetting Arsenal yesterday, I like it
The idea is fine, the execution is the problem. For offsides no problem but shouldn't more than 30 seconds and we shouldn't notice it being used. For scrutinising every goal in depth, no. If something isn't obvious straight away on first replay , then carry on
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Post by Mr_DaftBurger on Nov 5, 2023 9:28:18 GMT
The standard of refereeing decisions has got worse, human nature dictates that they'll become more reliant on technology. The problem is their shit decisions aren't overturned unless it's clear and obvious.
The problem being you have their mates judging them on their shitness and they aren't prepared to do it so the decision is 'not clear and obvious! You're basically asking VAR (which isn't making the ultimate decision) if the referees shit and they're never going to put their mate out of a job.
It's not going to be scrapped though but needs to be reviewed.
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Post by Gods on Nov 5, 2023 9:29:25 GMT
I reckon the VAR genie is out of the bottle. You can't put it back now. The first time a goal is scored which was self evidently from the TV cameras a yard offside World War 3 would break out. I mean that's how it came about. The TV audience, which is most of the audience, could see blatant mistakes in super slo-mo. No way can it be put back. Modified or limited in scope perhaps. Why can’t you? Most people seem to hate it. I think it’d be forgotten about pretty easily. I explained why above. Short of setting it to music I'm not sure what more you want?!
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Post by bayernoatcake on Nov 5, 2023 9:34:21 GMT
Why can’t you? Most people seem to hate it. I think it’d be forgotten about pretty easily. I explained why above. Short of setting it to music I'm not sure what more you want?! You did, I just don’t think it’d go like that. It’s pretty easy to park away and forget about.
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Post by lordb on Nov 5, 2023 9:41:06 GMT
As clunky and disruptive as it is, I still think it gets more decisions right than wrong. Because it has so much media coverage and put itself on a pedestal, it will always be shot down. Let’s not forget the same absolutely shocking and incompetent decisions were made by officials before VAR, the difference is the coverage and what would’ve been seen as targeting of an individual if you highlighted all the poor ref decisions. Whilst there is a person behind VAR, you rarely see that individual named and hounded by the media, it’s just VAR as a whole that gets the hassle so it’s almost a soft target as some perceive it as no one can get hurt. If you hounded a named ref for the same errors, many would find it unpalatable then there would be calls to respect the ref etc. Bottom line is, officiating has gone down hill since they were professionalised ironically. There should be improvements in them and VAR processes because after all, we want the right and fair decisions to be made…..don’t we? By and large I think we get that with VAR, it’s just much easier to blame it on them now than it was before when worse decision were made. Even if they get every decision right when it's taking 3,4,5 or more minutes then it's not worth it
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Post by mickstupp on Nov 5, 2023 9:43:46 GMT
How do you feel about it? For or against? Please give reasons for your viewpoint. Also, I know this is difficult, but please try and avoid being partisan. It was hilarious when Chelsea had that equaliser riled out in the cup final but try and avoid those feelings in response. 🙂 For it…just about. The downside is football doesn’t lend itself to VAR because it’s not as stop start as Tennis, Cricket or Rugby. It works very well in those sports. It’s here now and won’t go away. It needs to be enhanced and improved. It will probably find its way into the championship in three years.
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Post by Scouse on Nov 5, 2023 9:50:09 GMT
IMO it has ruined the atmosphere, nobody dares to celebrate a goal anymore until they’ve waited 3 minutes for the VAR check to be done. However, it really has balanced the game out. Do we really want to go back to a Man Utd, City or Liverpool player throwing themselves to the ground & getting a penalty every game? Against .. Id actually argue the opposite ..it protects the better teams , even if only marginally from a shock .. the one goal / chance they concede in a game goes to a panel for further scrutiny A team who creates many chances , scores more and has more shouts for penalties etc .. and more VAR decisions can afford to have one or even two scrubbed out .. a weaker team creating perhaps just one chance and having that decision scrutinised and ruled out less so … it’s the percentage game to ensure over a series of games or incidents the better teams benefit more Goal line technology is fact based , instant and fair and should remain ..everything else has the possibility of a degree of inbuilt bias , influence and has no part in the game
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Post by clintonbaptiste on Nov 5, 2023 9:50:46 GMT
Keep goal line technologically and duck the rest off
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Post by Gods on Nov 5, 2023 9:52:17 GMT
I explained why above. Short of setting it to music I'm not sure what more you want?! You did, I just don’t think it’d go like that. It’s pretty easy to park away and forget about. So they ditch VAR this morning and this afternoon the ref mistakenly disallows for offside what would have been Spurs winner against Chelsea to send them top of the league and a global TV audience can see the scorer was in fact comfortably onside.I can't see folks will just suck it up.
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Post by Gods on Nov 5, 2023 9:53:31 GMT
IMO it has ruined the atmosphere, nobody dares to celebrate a goal anymore until they’ve waited 3 minutes for the VAR check to be done. However, it really has balanced the game out. Do we really want to go back to a Man Utd, City or Liverpool player throwing themselves to the ground & getting a penalty every game? Against .. Id actually argue the opposite ..it protects the better teams , even if only marginally from a shock .. the one goal / chance they concede in a game goes to a panel for further scrutiny A team who creates many chances , scores more and has more shouts for penalties etc .. and more VAR decisions can afford to have one or even two scrubbed out .. a weaker team creating perhaps just one chance and having that decision scrutinised and ruled out less so … it’s the percentage game to ensure over a series of games or incidents the better teams benefit more Goal line technology is fact based , instant and fair and should remain ..everything else has the possibility of a degree of inbuilt bias , influence and has no part in the game 100% this.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Nov 5, 2023 9:59:24 GMT
You did, I just don’t think it’d go like that. It’s pretty easy to park away and forget about. So they ditch VAR this morning and this afternoon the ref mistakenly disallows for offside what would have been Spurs winner against Chelsea to send them top of the league and a global TV audience can see the scorer was in fact comfortably onside.I can't see folks will just suck it up. There will be whining but there always will be. We’ve shown VAR doesn’t work. It was a bad experiment and the results are in. Fuck it off.
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Post by xchpotter on Nov 5, 2023 10:20:11 GMT
As clunky and disruptive as it is, I still think it gets more decisions right than wrong. Because it has so much media coverage and put itself on a pedestal, it will always be shot down. Let’s not forget the same absolutely shocking and incompetent decisions were made by officials before VAR, the difference is the coverage and what would’ve been seen as targeting of an individual if you highlighted all the poor ref decisions. Whilst there is a person behind VAR, you rarely see that individual named and hounded by the media, it’s just VAR as a whole that gets the hassle so it’s almost a soft target as some perceive it as no one can get hurt. If you hounded a named ref for the same errors, many would find it unpalatable then there would be calls to respect the ref etc. Bottom line is, officiating has gone down hill since they were professionalised ironically. There should be improvements in them and VAR processes because after all, we want the right and fair decisions to be made…..don’t we? By and large I think we get that with VAR, it’s just much easier to blame it on them now than it was before when worse decision were made. Even if they get every decision right when it's taking 3,4,5 or more minutes then it's not worth it Have to agree to disagree. If there was a hypothetical situation of VAR being the difference between us going up, or if we ever get back there coming down from the PL, it can take as long as it takes…..as long as the correct decision is made. We would be so sore if through the sheer incompetence (or bias as I am increasingly thinking is the case) of one individual we lost out on millions. VAR is not perfect by any means, but I still believe it does more good than bad on balance. I appreciate everyone has a view.
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Post by lordb on Nov 5, 2023 10:26:56 GMT
Even if they get every decision right when it's taking 3,4,5 or more minutes then it's not worth it Have to agree to disagree. If there was a hypothetical situation of VAR being the difference between us going up, or if we ever get back there coming down from the PL, it can take as long as it takes…..as long as the correct decision is made. We would be so sore if through the sheer incompetence (or bias as I am increasingly thinking is the case) of one individual we lost out on millions. VAR is not perfect by any means, but I still believe it does more good than bad on balance. I appreciate everyone has a view. 5 minute decision is absurd Goal line technology instant and absolutely brilliant If VAR can be sped up massively, then it would be a much better experience
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Post by kerouac on Nov 5, 2023 10:38:00 GMT
In the premier league it’s in the hands of blokes that,let’s face it,aren’t too bright.Why didn’t we notice it so much at the euros or the World Cup..? It should be kept for off sides,just the feet positioning not the body, and simulation.
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Post by fullmetaljacket on Nov 5, 2023 10:48:58 GMT
It should be used in instances such as Terry Henry when he played for France and handled the ball which led to a goal I think v Ireland?
The absolute howlers and complete wrong decisions. Not these subjective calls when it feels like all the VAR do is back there mate up out in the middle.
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