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Post by stiggerstackle on Sept 28, 2023 9:51:46 GMT
Because we haven't moved with the times and installed a modern, professional structure into the club and we don't appear to have a considered and dialled in approach about what sort of football club we want to be and what type of football we want to play. We had a reset of sorts this summer bit it still left all the power and decision making in the hands of one man, Neil, in reality this is no different from the approach we have taken and failed miserably with for the last 7 years at least. We have created a half way house this summer but it is recoverable if we finally modernise the way we operate. Bring a football chairman in who knows football inside out and is independent but answerable to the owners, sit down and articulate a clear vision of how we are going to operate, clarify our ethos, how we want to operate, play and manage the club. The chairman would be divorced from the amateur "fan" led type of chairman we have now and hopefully make proper football decisions based on a long term plan and concentrate defined goals. With this in place we can appoint managers who specifically buy into and are capable of managing a squad of players that have been assembled and it will stop us starting anew whenever we change manager. Consistency, progress and a short, medium and long term plan which everything hangs off. Of course this depends on the owners really understanding the mistakes that have been made over all these years and agreeing a proper plan and putting it in place, rather than a vague, we are going to throw money at it approach to get back to where we should be. I think the recruitment this window, apart from the obvious omissions, have generally been excellent, we just need to build on this with the "next" manager (it looks like it may happen soon) and continue to plan for the future. We could be half way there to revitalising the club but will the owners see it this way and just change tack again. I do agree with you, but it's just never going to happen with a 'family owned and ran' club - not a hope in hell that PC replaces JC - he just would not stand the humiliation, he'd rather the club goes I would imagine. It leaves us completely hamstrung, and has led to many of the issues we see today. We need to move forward but our governance model is firmly stuck in the past. |
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Post by jesusmcmuffin on Sept 28, 2023 9:58:29 GMT
Club is fine, we've fallen into the trap of so many relegated clubs and made appointments that didn't work out in an attempt to quickly get back to the Prem.
Not sure how a club that pays a manager well and backs him can be broken, actually not sure what it means. Is it the new Toxic?
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Post by cvillestokie on Sept 28, 2023 10:01:15 GMT
Have we ran over a black cat, or got a gypsies curse. Every time we sweep the deck and try to start afresh it goes horribly wrong before we even get going. The last 5 years have to be the most shocking i can recall, and yet every season we seems to have some fresh impetus only for it to fizzle away and we revert to type. I genuinely thought we might have made a stab at the top 8 this season but in 8 games its been washed away. What is it? The owners? The manager? The players? The fans expectations? Something else? Each passing season we are further away than ever from promotion. Is it gonna be another 23 years before we are back cos I'll have to admit i may be a bit long in the tooth by then. This Division takes some getting out of but to stand a chance you've got to get the balance right. Good solid defence and a bit of flair. We've not bothered with the good solid defence part at all. Not really bothered with the flair part until this summer but then went way over the top and totally ignored the good solid defence part. But do you expect your recruitment of players to be any good when you hire a bloke whose knowledge of football as a whole is based on a spreadsheet?? I don’t know why people keep coming back to this. Why should he have no knowledge of football? Also, most clubs now use a data driven approach for recruitment. There are too many players across too many divisions to not do that. |
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Post by cvillestokie on Sept 28, 2023 10:03:59 GMT
MON was the only decent manager we’ve had since Sparky plus wank players Therefore, we’re toss Could we prise Sparky away from Bradford and let the good times roll? I miss his turn of phrase 'maximum points', 'people thought we would lose but we never subscribed to that view ', 'they didn't create anything of note' and more. And he was likeable! No. He needs the defensive foundations to already have been laid. He’s the opposite of what we need right now. |
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JudgeMental
Youth Player
Your Iso-Cube is waiting.
Posts: 339
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Post by JudgeMental on Sept 28, 2023 10:36:27 GMT
We’ve regressed to talking about fucking Pulis again? Stuck-in-the-past-on-Trent.How can we expect the owners to enter the 21st century when some of the fans haven’t even done that yet? Is the Sentinel still running that "The Way We Were" section? I fully expected that to be some short term special edition about 30 years ago, but every time I wen t home it was still going...  |
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Post by baconburger on Sept 28, 2023 10:36:32 GMT
So acording to you it had already gone tits up by the time we had 3 top ten prem finishes in a row and beat Liverpool 6-1. You must have hated stokelona. Standards and discipline declined rapidly after TP left. Yes sparky did a great job changing the style and producing a good exciting team. But behind the scenes it was falling apart. In truth TP ran the club for the Coates. And whilst they got a more creative coach in everything else behind the scenes went down hill. And eventually it fell apart. Many fans fail to understand the amount of work TP did. Best manager since Waddo and that's just plain fact. Great stuff if you like that kind of thing. The football was mostly horrific. |
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Post by baconburger on Sept 28, 2023 10:37:44 GMT
Standards and discipline weren't exactly tip-top at the end of the Pulis era, unless chucking bricks through people's car windows was a team-building exercise. The only problem with Hughes was that the owners didn't act fast enough to get rid when his time was up. There is an awful lot of horseshit talked about Pulis. Such disdain for the fella who bust a gut and got us to the Premier league and kept us there 6 years. And actually gave us an identity. And then this love in for the man who basically sent us back from whence we came. Its cognitive dissonance at its finest. Fact is Pulis is our best manager since Waddo. Try argue otherwise.... Easy I like watching football. |
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Post by Staffsoatcake on Sept 28, 2023 10:41:19 GMT
A simple way of finding out why we are broken.
What is the one constant at the club over the past 6/7 years?
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Post by Pugsley on Sept 28, 2023 11:22:16 GMT
It's true that TP is our best manager since Waddo, but he wasn't universally liked, that cannot be argued. He did give us an identity, not a great one if truth be told but he got the results. He did amazing to get us promoted and keep us in the Prem for 6 seasons. Hughes gave us an identity as well, Stokelona. We were great to watch and had some amazing footballers for a few years. Better than anything seen since Waddo. He also kept us in the Prem for 4 seasons - no mean feat. It's true that it went horribly wrong, but that's on the club as much as Hughes, as we are seeing since relegation and the abysmal decisions since. Fair enough comments there. Its how the internal discipline went with Hughes is what gets me. It became common knowledge fitness and some of the fundamentals dropped after Pulis. And yeah maybe the club itself should have recognised that and worked with Hughes and maybe it could have been rectified. But ultimately they both conspired to cock up all that had been achieved. And yes the 3 top 10 finishes were great. How I miss those days. A fading memory now sadly 😔 I think it shows what an amazing manager Hughes was, improving on league finishes of the previous guy despite having an unfit and ill-disciplined squad.  |
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Post by danceswithclams on Sept 28, 2023 11:30:37 GMT
A simple way of finding out why we are broken. What is the one constant at the club over the past 6/7 years? Is it the 'new' badge or the lack of a train station at the ground? |
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Sept 28, 2023 11:43:31 GMT
Fair enough comments there. Its how the internal discipline went with Hughes is what gets me. It became common knowledge fitness and some of the fundamentals dropped after Pulis. And yeah maybe the club itself should have recognised that and worked with Hughes and maybe it could have been rectified. But ultimately they both conspired to cock up all that had been achieved. And yes the 3 top 10 finishes were great. How I miss those days. A fading memory now sadly 😔 I think it shows what an amazing manager Hughes was, improving on league finishes of the previous guy despite having an unfit and ill-disciplined squad. It could be argued that way. Ultimately though the wheels came off his waggon sadly. And here we are. Personally I'd settle for some rudimentary football if it got us challenging for a trip back to the Premier league but each to their own 😊 This current fella is taking us down rapidly. And I don't want Pulis back either. But I might do come January if they let this chap take us to the foot of the table adrift and sinking. Hopefully we won't get there. |
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Post by The Stubborn Optimist on Sept 28, 2023 11:43:53 GMT
A simple way of finding out why we are broken. What is the one constant at the club over the past 6/7 years? Is it the 'new' badge or the lack of a train station at the ground? Or is it because I changed seats? |
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Post by jeycov on Sept 28, 2023 11:52:28 GMT
A simple way of finding out why we are broken. What is the one constant at the club over the past 6/7 years? Is it the 'new' badge or the lack of a train station at the ground? And the”new” corner with singing section |
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Post by maninasuitcase on Sept 28, 2023 12:09:14 GMT
Is it the 'new' badge or the lack of a train station at the ground? And the”new” corner with singing section The new singing corner has looked impressive this season. The seats still look brand new due to lack of use. On sunday they looked especially shiny on the tv. That corner has been the death knell of the club 😉 |
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Post by RonnieStokie on Sept 28, 2023 12:17:16 GMT
Since I moved to Stoke-on-Trent in the summer of 2017 our club has gone to pot.
I'm sorry.
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Post by scfcno1fan on Sept 28, 2023 12:24:43 GMT
Since I moved to Stoke-on-Trent in the summer of 2017 our club has gone to pot. I'm sorry. Similar situation with my now wife. Got together the start of the year we went down. We’ve been shite ever since. She actually really enjoys the football, but I keep telling her about all the great games she missed the 10-15 years prior! |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 28, 2023 12:26:40 GMT
Since I moved to Stoke-on-Trent in the summer of 2017 our club has gone to pot. I'm sorry. Can you kindly bugger off then. |
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Post by thornestein on Sept 28, 2023 12:31:25 GMT
Since I moved to Stoke-on-Trent in the summer of 2017 our club has gone to pot. I'm sorry. Similar situation with my now wife. Got together the start of the year we went down. We’ve been shite ever since. She actually really enjoys the football, but I keep telling her about all the great games she missed the 10-15 years prior! i know a very good divorce lawyer |
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Post by dirtclod on Sept 28, 2023 12:50:36 GMT
Simple - people quit moving to town, quit getting married and quit changing seats then.
Glad we sorted THAT out. What's the next problem?
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Post by matelot1996 on Sept 28, 2023 13:23:21 GMT
After over “Half a Decade” back in the Championship the club and their appointed managers still have no clue how to recruit a squad that can cope with this league. You need the same qualities you always have.
1. Quality teams like Leicester who will just outplay, outthink and fight their way to Promotion with Top players. That ship has sailed for us.
2. Failing that, warriors who have a quality manager to lead them. (Sheffield)
3. Lots of pace, organised, physicality and a couple of goal scorers (Luton)
4. Even just a half decent well drilled side managed well (Coventry Last Season who marginally failed)
It’s seemingly a simple formula. Not saying it’s easy to escape this league. You would of thought however, with our resources, we would of at least threatened a top 6 position at some point. There is something badly wrong at this club. It’s getting a bit too ingrained in our DNA though. It’s disturbing.
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Post by jesusmcmuffin on Sept 28, 2023 13:33:40 GMT
A simple way of finding out why we are broken. What is the one constant at the club over the past 6/7 years? Is it the 'new' badge or the lack of a train station at the ground? I blame this gel we bought at some Chinese market I think was left over from the stuff Birmingham used to stick their stadium back together with |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 28, 2023 13:43:23 GMT
I think the board got us to where we are now .
Almost 2 decades ago Peter Coates Paid 1.7 million to buy the club off the Icelandic's .
He claimed the club was a mess , it was 9 million in debt and a hard nosed ,more pragmatic, more business like, more no nonsense manager , was required to sort the club out from top to bottom.
He appointed Tony Pulis and got lucky, very lucky, he was the right man at the right time, hiccups were minor and TP had a big influence in making Stoke , more hard nosed , more pragmatic and more successful.
For some reason, because they once did something 2 decades ago and it worked, the owners just keep doing the same thing, again and again and again, without any success.
There is some Einstein quote , about stupidity being defined as doing the same thing again and again and expecting a different outcome.
If Einstein is right , our board aren't quite the full ticket.
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Post by biddulphchav on Sept 28, 2023 13:48:23 GMT
Personally I think it’s mostly down the to fact that the recruitment of the manager is driven by John Coates, and doesn’t seem to be a very professional system. If what I understand is correct, Coates met AN and liked him - possibly over a beer or something similar - I do recall the interview where JC talked about it. I was actually shocked that he openly stated this is when he sort of decided he was the man for the job.
The only one we seem to have gotten right is MON who did a reasonable job, and I’d kill to have him back in place of the clown we have here now. The rest of the managers since Hughes have simply been terrible appointments. We need to be more creative and systematic in how we recruit managers. Good news is we seem to be changing our recruitment approach to players, which I think will pay dividends, hopefully we are taking the same approach at board level.
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peterpan1
Youth Player
Posts: 474
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Post by peterpan1 on Sept 28, 2023 16:55:08 GMT
I think we are like the Titanic making a handbrake turn.....We've not quite made it.
I'm delighted we've looked further afield than Bognor Regis for some foreign players. Maybe, just maybe it needs a foreign manager to pull them altogether into a cohesive, winning team.
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Post by GreaterGlasgowstokie on Sept 28, 2023 16:58:08 GMT
Stoke fans don't ask for much. Just a competitive team and we've just not had one for years.
I have to say, I think it's simple. We've had bad managers and coaches for years
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Post by questionable on Sept 28, 2023 17:26:59 GMT
It’s a simplistic plan identity where the squad needs improving and implement the plan by signing better/younger players rather than signing loads of the same type players, selling players then insanely neglecting certain key areas.
Employ a manager with more than half a brain cell who doesn’t talk utter crap week after week and has a plan would be a bonus.
Sorted
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Post by chiswickpotter on Sept 28, 2023 18:09:47 GMT
It all comes down to the owners mate there's nowt else to it and it's not a mystery. There is no clearly defined club vision set by the owners, they don't recruit to that vision and they don't have a clue on how to run a modern football club. They let every new manager dictate the direction of the club and give them the keys to the kingdom which is why we've gone through 2-3 squads of players and not made any progress as we have no foundations to build upon because every new manager gets to rip out the foundations and put their own in so every time it goes wrong which it seems to always do we have to start from scratch again. This summer the club embarked on a new strategy for recruitment alongside the new management structure. This entailed a large influx of new players from home and abroad, based on greater use of data. Alongside first team ready players, some of the budget went on a longer term play with players like Junior, Jojic, Bae to sit alongside Sidibe, Tezgel and Lowe. What is wrong with this plan? It seems sensible and what a majority of supports have been called for. Funding the budget meant spending very little in January leaving the manager with a threadbare squad especially forwards (Powell was used as a centre forward due to lack of options) in the second half of 2022/23 season. Poor as it was, last season should not be part of the assessment of the manager and his team. And I doubt anyone in the club didn’t want to sign left sided defensive cover, but it didn’t happen. If we want the owners to commit to a vision, we have to give them more time than 8 games especially when 5 of the likely starting eleven were unavailable on Sunday. It may well be we have got it wrong but we have to stick with it for now. |
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Post by rowbeartoe on Sept 28, 2023 21:26:40 GMT
It all comes down to the owners mate there's nowt else to it and it's not a mystery. There is no clearly defined club vision set by the owners, they don't recruit to that vision and they don't have a clue on how to run a modern football club. They let every new manager dictate the direction of the club and give them the keys to the kingdom which is why we've gone through 2-3 squads of players and not made any progress as we have no foundations to build upon because every new manager gets to rip out the foundations and put their own in so every time it goes wrong which it seems to always do we have to start from scratch again. This summer the club embarked on a new strategy for recruitment alongside the new management structure. This entailed a large influx of new players from home and abroad, based on greater use of data. Alongside first team ready players, some of the budget went on a longer term play with players like Junior, Jojic, Bae to sit alongside Sidibe, Tezgel and Lowe. What is wrong with this plan? It seems sensible and what a majority of supports have been called for. Funding the budget meant spending very little in January leaving the manager with a threadbare squad especially forwards (Powell was used as a centre forward due to lack of options) in the second half of 2022/23 season. Poor as it was, last season should not be part of the assessment of the manager and his team. And I doubt anyone in the club didn’t want to sign left sided defensive cover, but it didn’t happen. If we want the owners to commit to a vision, we have to give them more time than 8 games especially when 5 of the likely starting eleven were unavailable on Sunday. It may well be we have got it wrong but we have to stick with it for now. We still do not have club defined vision, we have let Neil create and define that vision and if he gets the boot then we have to stick with his vision because we have invested that much into it at this point. A new manager coming in then has to fit with the vision of a man who was fired because on the face of it his vision didn't work. It's really not hard to comprehend. If the club decided we want to play a certain way and our recruitment model is aimed at looking at a specific kind of player then we would recruit towards that vision and they would live and die on that vision but instead we are forever tied to the vision of men who have come and gone from the club due to their failure. |
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Post by hoppo96 on Sept 29, 2023 13:31:12 GMT
Things have snowballed. The club's ownership and board aren't particularly very good at running it so don't hire the best manager or recruitment people. Who they don't get the best out of the team and signings. Which annoys the fans, causing some to be frustrated. Which means they notice other things at the club not working well, simple things like the tickets, food, etc. Everybody is annoyed, frustrated and tired, looking for some sort of spark. But no spark is gonna come from people fundamentally not up to the task.
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Post by satoshi on Sept 29, 2023 14:10:28 GMT
And the”new” corner with singing section The new singing corner has looked impressive this season. The seats still look brand new due to lack of use. On sunday they looked especially shiny on the tv. That corner has been the death knell of the club 😉 What happened to vis unita 1863 or whatever they were called? I thought it was a decent initiative tbh. |
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