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Post by mickeythemaestro on Sept 28, 2023 8:46:24 GMT
Be as sarky as you like. Standards and discipline dropped with Hughes. And slowly but surely it fell apart. You watched it yourself and we got relegated. And you're now 6 seasons out of the top flight and going backwards. Standards and discipline weren't exactly tip-top at the end of the Pulis era, unless chucking bricks through people's car windows was a team-building exercise. The only problem with Hughes was that the owners didn't act fast enough to get rid when his time was up. There is an awful lot of horseshit talked about Pulis. Such disdain for the fella who bust a gut and got us to the Premier league and kept us there 6 years. And actually gave us an identity. And then this love in for the man who basically sent us back from whence we came. Its cognitive dissonance at its finest. Fact is Pulis is our best manager since Waddo. Try argue otherwise....
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Post by rowbeartoe on Sept 28, 2023 8:46:37 GMT
Be as sarky as you like. Standards and discipline dropped with Hughes. And slowly but surely it fell apart. You watched it yourself and we got relegated. And you're now 6 seasons out of the top flight and going backwards. Standards and discipline weren't exactly tip-top at the end of the Pulis era, unless chucking bricks through people's car windows was a team-building exercise. The only problem with Hughes was that the owners didn't act fast enough to get rid when his time was up. Standards and discipline.
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Post by rrg91 on Sept 28, 2023 8:48:08 GMT
So many things wrong at the moment and we just live in hope that everything starts to click. Definitely appears to be a long standing mentality issue at the club however. Only have to look at how poor we are at coming back from a goal down to see that. It’s just disappointing and the players don’t seem to have much positivity at the moment either. Hopefully if we hang in long enough our fortunes will change 👍🏻
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Post by Deleted on Sept 28, 2023 8:48:19 GMT
Standards and discipline weren't exactly tip-top at the end of the Pulis era, unless chucking bricks through people's car windows was a team-building exercise. The only problem with Hughes was that the owners didn't act fast enough to get rid when his time was up. There is an awful lot of horseshit talked about Pulis. Such disdain for the fella who bust a gut and got us to the Premier league and kept us there 6 years. And actually gave us an identity. And then this love in for the man who basically sent us back from whence we came. Its cognitive dissonance at its finest. Fact is Pulis is our best manager since Waddo. Try argue otherwise.... These are the worst kind of posters.
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Post by cheadlepotter on Sept 28, 2023 8:53:22 GMT
I think the way this thread has gone pretty much explains why our club is so broken, it’s stuck in the past.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Sept 28, 2023 8:55:27 GMT
Standards and discipline weren't exactly tip-top at the end of the Pulis era, unless chucking bricks through people's car windows was a team-building exercise. The only problem with Hughes was that the owners didn't act fast enough to get rid when his time was up. There is an awful lot of horseshit talked about Pulis. Such disdain for the fella who bust a gut and got us to the Premier league and kept us there 6 years. And actually gave us an identity. And then this love in for the man who basically sent us back from whence we came. Its cognitive dissonance at its finest. Fact is Pulis is our best manager since Waddo. Try argue otherwise.... Which bit of my post are you disagreeing with Mickey? You're arguing as if the two things are mutually exclusive. Both were very good managers for Stoke. The difference is that one was removed at precisely the right time just as things were starting to go downhill, and the other was persisted with too long until the damage had been done. You don't have to think Pulis bad Hughes good or vice versa.
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Sept 28, 2023 8:59:47 GMT
There is an awful lot of horseshit talked about Pulis. Such disdain for the fella who bust a gut and got us to the Premier league and kept us there 6 years. And actually gave us an identity. And then this love in for the man who basically sent us back from whence we came. Its cognitive dissonance at its finest. Fact is Pulis is our best manager since Waddo. Try argue otherwise.... Which bit of my post are you disagreeing with Mickey? You're arguing as if the two things are mutually exclusive. Both were very good managers for Stoke. The difference is that one was removed at precisely the right time just as things were starting to go downhill, and the other was persisted with too long until the damage had been done. You don't have to think Pulis bad Hughes good or vice versa. I didn't disagree with any of your post. I'm making the point that some hold Pulis is such disregard after the incredible things he achieved and have Hughes down as some sort of legend. Pulis ran a tight ship and was an overall massive positive for the club. Hughes produced some nice football but ran a sloppy ship with poor discipline and sent us down, so overall a negative in my view. That is the only point I am making.
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Post by J-Roar on Sept 28, 2023 8:59:52 GMT
Complacency, no long term vision, stuck in a rut, take your pick. Can I have all 3?
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Post by benjaminbiscuit on Sept 28, 2023 9:01:22 GMT
There is an awful lot of horseshit talked about Pulis. Such disdain for the fella who bust a gut and got us to the Premier league and kept us there 6 years. And actually gave us an identity. And then this love in for the man who basically sent us back from whence we came. Its cognitive dissonance at its finest. Fact is Pulis is our best manager since Waddo. Try argue otherwise.... Which bit of my post are you disagreeing with Mickey? You're arguing as if the two things are mutually exclusive. Both were very good managers for Stoke. The difference is that one was removed at precisely the right time just as things were starting to go downhill, and the other was persisted with too long until the damage had been done. You don't have to think Pulis bad Hughes good or vice versa. Have to Say TP looked brimming with energy and in great nick last night he would surely add value around bluffers like Jared and Martin if nothing else while we fight this latest self inflicted fire , Youd pay to see him listen to one of Martins bullshit presentations on cultural catalysts and Pillars 😉 . Said at the time he was the right appointment after Jones but the club knew bast now i dont think he’d touch it but as a different role around the family may be
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Post by Staffsoatcake on Sept 28, 2023 9:01:58 GMT
There are clubs with not very rich owners, that have good managers,plus good backroom staff, they do very well considering they don't have a pot to piss in.
But Typical Stoke who have got very rich owners who haven't got a clue on how to run a football club, they think just because they throw money at it, it will be fine, instead of getting in football people who know what they are doing, so the owners can just sit back watch a decent football club hopefully having some success.
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Post by J-Roar on Sept 28, 2023 9:02:02 GMT
Which bit of my post are you disagreeing with Mickey? You're arguing as if the two things are mutually exclusive. Both were very good managers for Stoke. The difference is that one was removed at precisely the right time just as things were starting to go downhill, and the other was persisted with too long until the damage had been done. You don't have to think Pulis bad Hughes good or vice versa. I didn't disagree with any of your post. I'm making the point that some hold Pulis is such disregard after the incredible things he achieved and have Hughes down as some sort of legend. Pulis ran a tight ship and was an overall massive positive for the club. Hughes produced some nice football but ran a sloppy ship with poor discipline and sent us down, so overall a negative in my view. That is the only point I am making. Both managers stayed too long. Blame the complacent owners for that.
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Post by J-Roar on Sept 28, 2023 9:04:11 GMT
There are clubs with not very rich owners, that have good managers,plus good backroom staff, they do very well considering they don't have a pot to piss in. But Typical Stoke who have got very rich owners who haven't got a clue on how to run a football club, they think just because they throw money at it, it will be fine, instead of getting in football people who know what they are doing, so the owners can just sit back watch a decent football club hopefully having some success. They think they are football people. That's the problem. And there's a queue of British managers blowing smoke up their arse and telling them they are the best owners in the world in return for a fat contract.
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Post by tommycarlsberg on Sept 28, 2023 9:04:17 GMT
Which bit of my post are you disagreeing with Mickey? You're arguing as if the two things are mutually exclusive. Both were very good managers for Stoke. The difference is that one was removed at precisely the right time just as things were starting to go downhill, and the other was persisted with too long until the damage had been done. You don't have to think Pulis bad Hughes good or vice versa. Have to Say TP looked brimming with energy and in great nick last night he would surely add value around bluffers like Jared and Martin if nothing else while we fight this latest self inflicted fire , Youd pay to see him listen to one of Martins bullshit presentations on cultural catalysts and Pillars 😉 . Said at the time he was the right appointment after Jones but the club knew bast now i dont think he’d touch it but as a different role around the family may be We've only got three CBs at the club, which is about five too few for Tony to ever return.
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Sept 28, 2023 9:04:29 GMT
Complacency, no long term vision, stuck in a rut, take your pick. Can I have all 3? We've already got all 3 i think is his point. And he's bang on the money. This is as bad a situation we've been in for a long time. Something has to give because we are going to need a rescue manager soon to just come in and produce clean sheets. So if you think Pulis was boring get ready for worse. Seasons nearly written off already. So sad 😞
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Post by J-Roar on Sept 28, 2023 9:05:23 GMT
There are clubs with not very rich owners, that have good managers,plus good backroom staff, they do very well considering they don't have a pot to piss in. But Typical Stoke who have got very rich owners who haven't got a clue on how to run a football club, they think just because they throw money at it, it will be fine, instead of getting in football people who know what they are doing, so the owners can just sit back watch a decent football club hopefully having some success. The Coates' also ran a shit show when they didn't have a pot to piss in. They just run a more expensive shit show now.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Sept 28, 2023 9:05:26 GMT
Which bit of my post are you disagreeing with Mickey? You're arguing as if the two things are mutually exclusive. Both were very good managers for Stoke. The difference is that one was removed at precisely the right time just as things were starting to go downhill, and the other was persisted with too long until the damage had been done. You don't have to think Pulis bad Hughes good or vice versa. I didn't disagree with any of your post. I'm making the point that some hold Pulis is such disregard after the incredible things he achieved and have Hughes down as some sort of legend. Pulis ran a tight ship and was an overall massive positive for the club. Hughes produced some nice football but ran a sloppy ship with poor discipline and sent us down, so overall a negative in my view. That is the only point I am making. Do you not think the owners' decisions regarding both is a reason why they're perceived that way though? Hughes would be a lot better thought of by the majority if he'd been moved on at the end of his fourth season. I also think Pulis' reputation might be tarnished slightly if he'd stayed longer than he did, as we were starting to go backwards in terms of results and performances. Hughes did more than produce some nice football, he achieved higher league finishes than his predecessor too, so it was effective for a time as well as 'nice' - 'running a tight ship' couldn't get us in the top half, for all that. I agree with you that Pulis is rightly remembered as one of the best manager's the club has had, but I don't think one needs to be denigrated at the expense of the other. Both did a good job until they didn't. Both brought good times that are remembered fondly.
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Post by bunnyscfc on Sept 28, 2023 9:05:38 GMT
Which bit of my post are you disagreeing with Mickey? You're arguing as if the two things are mutually exclusive. Both were very good managers for Stoke. The difference is that one was removed at precisely the right time just as things were starting to go downhill, and the other was persisted with too long until the damage had been done. You don't have to think Pulis bad Hughes good or vice versa. Have to Say TP looked brimming with energy and in great nick last night he would surely add value around bluffers like Jared and Martin if nothing else while we fight this latest self inflicted fire , Youd pay to see him listen to one of Martins bullshit presentations on cultural catalysts and Pillars 😉 . Said at the time he was the right appointment after Jones but the club knew bast now i dont think he’d touch it but as a different role around the family may be Isn’t the last thing we need the best mate of the family that own us?
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Sept 28, 2023 9:08:53 GMT
I didn't disagree with any of your post. I'm making the point that some hold Pulis is such disregard after the incredible things he achieved and have Hughes down as some sort of legend. Pulis ran a tight ship and was an overall massive positive for the club. Hughes produced some nice football but ran a sloppy ship with poor discipline and sent us down, so overall a negative in my view. That is the only point I am making. Do you not think the owners' decisions regarding both is a reason why they're perceived that way though? Hughes would be a lot better thought of by the majority if he'd been moved on at the end of his fourth season. I also think Pulis' reputation might be tarnished slightly if he'd stayed longer than he did, as we were starting to go backwards in terms of results and performances. Hughes did more than produce some nice football, he achieved higher league finishes than his predecessor too, so it was effective for a time as well as 'nice' - 'running a tight ship' couldn't get us in the top half, for all that. I agree with you that Pulis is rightly remembered as one of the best manager's the club has had, but I don't think one needs to be denigrated at the expense of the other. Both did a good job until they didn't. Both brought good times that are remembered fondly. Either way and speaking of timing dismissals correctly, I think Neil's time is up. He's lost the plot and we need someone else in the halt our decline because its picking up pace. They'll leave it till Xmas though by which time we'll be done.
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Post by Pugsley on Sept 28, 2023 9:10:12 GMT
Standards and discipline weren't exactly tip-top at the end of the Pulis era, unless chucking bricks through people's car windows was a team-building exercise. The only problem with Hughes was that the owners didn't act fast enough to get rid when his time was up. There is an awful lot of horseshit talked about Pulis. Such disdain for the fella who bust a gut and got us to the Premier league and kept us there 6 years. And actually gave us an identity. And then this love in for the man who basically sent us back from whence we came. Its cognitive dissonance at its finest. Fact is Pulis is our best manager since Waddo. Try argue otherwise.... It's true that TP is our best manager since Waddo, but he wasn't universally liked, that cannot be argued. He did give us an identity, not a great one if truth be told but he got the results. He did amazing to get us promoted and keep us in the Prem for 6 seasons. Hughes gave us an identity as well, Stokelona. We were great to watch and had some amazing footballers for a few years. Better than anything seen since Waddo. He also kept us in the Prem for 4 seasons - no mean feat. It's true that it went horribly wrong, but that's on the club as much as Hughes, as we are seeing since relegation and the abysmal decisions since.
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Sept 28, 2023 9:15:56 GMT
There is an awful lot of horseshit talked about Pulis. Such disdain for the fella who bust a gut and got us to the Premier league and kept us there 6 years. And actually gave us an identity. And then this love in for the man who basically sent us back from whence we came. Its cognitive dissonance at its finest. Fact is Pulis is our best manager since Waddo. Try argue otherwise.... It's true that TP is our best manager since Waddo, but he wasn't universally liked, that cannot be argued. He did give us an identity, not a great one if truth be told but he got the results. He did amazing to get us promoted and keep us in the Prem for 6 seasons. Hughes gave us an identity as well, Stokelona. We were great to watch and had some amazing footballers for a few years. Better than anything seen since Waddo. He also kept us in the Prem for 4 seasons - no mean feat. It's true that it went horribly wrong, but that's on the club as much as Hughes, as we are seeing since relegation and the abysmal decisions since. Fair enough comments there. Its how the internal discipline went with Hughes is what gets me. It became common knowledge fitness and some of the fundamentals dropped after Pulis. And yeah maybe the club itself should have recognised that and worked with Hughes and maybe it could have been rectified. But ultimately they both conspired to cock up all that had been achieved. And yes the 3 top 10 finishes were great. How I miss those days. A fading memory now sadly 😔
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Sept 28, 2023 9:17:08 GMT
Do you not think the owners' decisions regarding both is a reason why they're perceived that way though? Hughes would be a lot better thought of by the majority if he'd been moved on at the end of his fourth season. I also think Pulis' reputation might be tarnished slightly if he'd stayed longer than he did, as we were starting to go backwards in terms of results and performances. Hughes did more than produce some nice football, he achieved higher league finishes than his predecessor too, so it was effective for a time as well as 'nice' - 'running a tight ship' couldn't get us in the top half, for all that. I agree with you that Pulis is rightly remembered as one of the best manager's the club has had, but I don't think one needs to be denigrated at the expense of the other. Both did a good job until they didn't. Both brought good times that are remembered fondly. Either way and speaking of timing dismissals correctly, I think Neil's time is up. He's lost the plot and we need someone else in the halt our decline because its picking up pace. They'll leave it till Xmas though by which time we'll be done. If results and performances continue in this vein he won't make it to November whatever the owners' intentions. Personally I'd like him to turn it round but he seems to be yet another Stoke manager who's decided to abandon his plan at the first sign of trouble and is now panicking. There's rarely a way back from that.
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Post by Bojan Mackey on Sept 28, 2023 9:17:26 GMT
We’ve regressed to talking about fucking Pulis again?
Stuck-in-the-past-on-Trent.
How can we expect the owners to enter the 21st century when some of the fans haven’t even done that yet?
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Sept 28, 2023 9:21:03 GMT
Either way and speaking of timing dismissals correctly, I think Neil's time is up. He's lost the plot and we need someone else in the halt our decline because its picking up pace. They'll leave it till Xmas though by which time we'll be done. If results and performances continue in this vein he won't make it to November whatever the owners' intentions. Personally I'd like him to turn it round but he seems to be yet another Stoke manager who's decided to abandon his plan at the first sign of trouble and is now panicking. There's rarely a way back from that. But we just bloody know Stoke. We'll pull out a crazy win away at Leicester and JC will get a boner again and think its all gonna work and he'll hang on far too long. I hope he turns it round starting on Saturday and goes on a monster winning streak. But looking at all the variables right now that'd be akin to raising lazarus from the dead.
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Post by SuperRickyFuller on Sept 28, 2023 9:23:13 GMT
We’ve regressed to talking about fucking Pulis again? Stuck-in-the-past-on-Trent. How can we expect the owners to enter the 21st century when some of the fans haven’t even done that yet? I'm certain I saw someone mention Lou Macari a week or two ago as well, in the context of what he'd be able to do with the current squad, couldn't believe what I was reading (then again, I could)
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Post by cheadlepotter on Sept 28, 2023 9:25:38 GMT
We’ve regressed to talking about fucking Pulis again? Stuck-in-the-past-on-Trent. How can we expect the owners to enter the 21st century when some of the fans haven’t even done that yet? Some have barely entered the 20th yet.
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Sept 28, 2023 9:29:30 GMT
We’ve regressed to talking about fucking Pulis again? Stuck-in-the-past-on-Trent. How can we expect the owners to enter the 21st century when some of the fans haven’t even done that yet? I'm certain I saw someone mention Lou Macari a week or two ago as well, in the context of what he'd be able to do with the current squad, couldn't believe what I was reading (then again, I could) I suspect very few are actually meaning they need bringing back. Just highlighting how they'd better handle the current predicament. I wouldn't read too much into it. That said if we're rock bottom come January and flat lining then Pulis coming in on a 6 month saviour mission might not seem so crazy to be honest. We'd probably stop shipping so many goals.
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Post by mrcoke on Sept 28, 2023 9:38:04 GMT
There is an awful lot of horseshit talked about Pulis. Such disdain for the fella who bust a gut and got us to the Premier league and kept us there 6 years. And actually gave us an identity. And then this love in for the man who basically sent us back from whence we came. Its cognitive dissonance at its finest. Fact is Pulis is our best manager since Waddo. Try argue otherwise.... It's true that TP is our best manager since Waddo, but he wasn't universally liked, that cannot be argued. He did give us an identity, not a great one if truth be told but he got the results. He did amazing to get us promoted and keep us in the Prem for 6 seasons. Hughes gave us an identity as well, Stokelona. We were great to watch and had some amazing footballers for a few years. Better than anything seen since Waddo. He also kept us in the Prem for 4 seasons - no mean feat. It's true that it went horribly wrong, but that's on the club as much as Hughes, as we are seeing since relegation and the abysmal decisions since. Excellent post. Only the big 6 clubs plus Everton have been ever present in the Prem. and Everton have been skirting with the drop. Only the big clubs can afford the best players, so everyone else has to scratch around for best pickings of the rest and many resort to the Pulis tactic of building a defensive wall to hold onto the "point you start with" each match, against the top half clubs. Anyone who adopts a more attacking policy like Hughes is skating on thin ice and eventually drops out of the league. We survived for a long time picking up "misfits" from other clubs at which Pulis was very astute, but even he signed a few duck eggs. Hughes got lucky with Arni, Bojan, and utilising N'Zoni's talents to the maximum advantage, but he proceeded to sign a while load of technically talented misfits, but who had no ability to make an effort, or apply their talent. Another mistake was signing big clubs rejects who had sat on the bench playing very little and when expected to perform every week for us failed miserably having "lost it". To stay at the top in sport, be it cricket, golf, tennis, or football, you have to keep doing it every week. A long term injury finishes lots of players, who can never climb back to the level they once were. It's been a great shame about our decline in recent years, but we should firstly be grateful we have not done what many other former Prem clubs have done and gone straight through the trap door to the third tier. Secondly we should live in hope that if other former great clubs can have revivals and climb back to the top level, and little minnows like Bournemouth and Luton can do it, then so can we.
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Post by pavel on Sept 28, 2023 9:42:04 GMT
Because we haven't moved with the times and installed a modern, professional structure into the club and we don't appear to have a considered and dialled in approach about what sort of football club we want to be and what type of football we want to play.
We had a reset of sorts this summer bit it still left all the power and decision making in the hands of one man, Neil, in reality this is no different from the approach we have taken and failed miserably with for the last 7 years at least.
We have created a half way house this summer but it is recoverable if we finally modernise the way we operate. Bring a football chairman in who knows football inside out and is independent but answerable to the owners, sit down and articulate a clear vision of how we are going to operate, clarify our ethos, how we want to operate, play and manage the club. The chairman would be divorced from the amateur "fan" led type of chairman we have now and hopefully make proper football decisions based on a long term plan and concentrate defined goals.
With this in place we can appoint managers who specifically buy into and are capable of managing a squad of players that have been assembled and it will stop us starting anew whenever we change manager. Consistency, progress and a short, medium and long term plan which everything hangs off.
Of course this depends on the owners really understanding the mistakes that have been made over all these years and agreeing a proper plan and putting it in place, rather than a vague, we are going to throw money at it approach to get back to where we should be.
I think the recruitment this window, apart from the obvious omissions, have generally been excellent, we just need to build on this with the "next" manager (it looks like it may happen soon) and continue to plan for the future. We could be half way there to revitalising the club but will the owners see it this way and just change tack again.
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Post by Bojan Mackey on Sept 28, 2023 9:42:30 GMT
I'm certain I saw someone mention Lou Macari a week or two ago as well, in the context of what he'd be able to do with the current squad, couldn't believe what I was reading (then again, I could) I suspect very few are actually meaning they need bringing back. Just highlighting how they'd better handle the current predicament. I wouldn't read too much into it. That said if we're rock bottom come January and flat lining then Pulis coming in on a 6 month saviour mission might not seem so crazy to be honest. We'd probably stop shipping so many goals. People do want him back, they’d have him back today. It’s absolutely pitiful. The bloke had completely passed his use-by date and was sending us down, football moved on from the likes of him over a decade ago now and he hasn’t worked since 2020 after he was sacked after 10 games for a completely dismal showing at Sheffield Wednesday but people still obsess over the bloke.
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Post by benjaminbiscuit on Sept 28, 2023 9:50:28 GMT
Have to Say TP looked brimming with energy and in great nick last night he would surely add value around bluffers like Jared and Martin if nothing else while we fight this latest self inflicted fire , Youd pay to see him listen to one of Martins bullshit presentations on cultural catalysts and Pillars 😉 . Said at the time he was the right appointment after Jones but the club knew bast now i dont think he’d touch it but as a different role around the family may be Isn’t the last thing we need the best mate of the family that own us? I was thinking as can advisor the thing they lack is football Street nous around the people matin and Jared clearly bluffers and hes a good nose for that
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