|
Post by vidigal7 on Sept 27, 2023 5:49:23 GMT
The answer is No it doesn't represent all Stoke fans, unfortunately hidden identity message boards are inhabitaed by a sizeable proportion of depressives. It always will be the case, it will attract them like flies on shit. I don't think you can do a great deal about it apart from accept that, as hard viewing as it can be.
It is strange though how other clubs don't have such extreme doom on their boards.
Unfortunately negativity spreads like an Australian Bush fire. This club has to start like Usain bolt or once them squeaky wheels are in motion the end is nigh, it's self sabotage and at least certainly doesn't inspire growth or progression
|
|
|
Post by The Toxic Avenger on Sept 27, 2023 6:17:27 GMT
The answer is No it doesn't represent all Stoke fans, unfortunately hidden identity message boards are inhabitaed by a sizeable proportion of depressives. It always will be the case, it will attract them like flies on shit. I don't think you can do a great deal about it apart from accept that, as hard viewing as it can be. It is strange though how other clubs don't have such extreme doom on their boards. Unfortunately negativity spreads like an Australian Bush fire. This club has to start like Usain bolt or once them squeaky wheels are in motion the end is nigh, it's self sabotage and at least certainly doesn't inspire growth or progression Other clubs are no different. Again, I’m not sure which things the mood on here and the mood at games has diverged wildly about?
|
|
|
Post by vidigal7 on Sept 27, 2023 6:20:23 GMT
The answer is No it doesn't represent all Stoke fans, unfortunately hidden identity message boards are inhabitaed by a sizeable proportion of depressives. It always will be the case, it will attract them like flies on shit. I don't think you can do a great deal about it apart from accept that, as hard viewing as it can be. It is strange though how other clubs don't have such extreme doom on their boards. Unfortunately negativity spreads like an Australian Bush fire. This club has to start like Usain bolt or once them squeaky wheels are in motion the end is nigh, it's self sabotage and at least certainly doesn't inspire growth or progression Other clubs are no different. Again, I’m not sure which things the mood on here and the mood at games has diverged wildly about? People I sit next to are not happy but recognise it's early season, it's sad that we're not even in October and the knives are out on the Internet, it's like a breeding ground of political opposition to the ruling party
|
|
|
Post by svengaliinplatforms on Sept 27, 2023 6:28:08 GMT
So have we decided yet, that Oatcakers aren't 'proper fans'? I can't be arsed to read through the whole thread.
|
|
|
Post by The Toxic Avenger on Sept 27, 2023 6:43:35 GMT
Other clubs are no different. Again, I’m not sure which things the mood on here and the mood at games has diverged wildly about? People I sit next to are not happy but recognise it's early season, it's sad that we're not even in October and the knives are out on the Internet, it's like a breeding ground of political opposition to the ruling party There are people on here that think that too though, it isn’t a uniform opinion but there is a prevailing mood. It seems to be that the prevailing mood on here and at the ground is inching towards mutinous.
|
|
|
Post by bayernoatcake on Sept 27, 2023 6:48:28 GMT
It was so happy at the ground on Sunday.
There wasn’t a lot of booing in the first half.
And half the crowd didn’t get up and leave after the third went in.
Everyone was right behind the manager.
|
|
|
Post by vidigal7 on Sept 27, 2023 6:53:51 GMT
It was so happy at the ground on Sunday. There wasn’t a lot of booing in the first half. And half the crowd didn’t get up and leave after the third went in. Everyone was right behind the manager. You're constantly against anything scfc, never mind the manager I do live in hope though that you'll step up and save the day once Neil is untenable, we need a hero Bayern, it's your time. I want to see your wisdom in action. Forget Steve Bruce
|
|
|
Post by bayernoatcake on Sept 27, 2023 6:54:46 GMT
It was so happy at the ground on Sunday. There wasn’t a lot of booing in the first half. And half the crowd didn’t get up and leave after the third went in. Everyone was right behind the manager. You're constantly against anything scfc, never mind the manager I do live in hope though that you'll step up and save the day once Neil is untenable, we need a hero Bayern, it's your time. I want to see your wisdom in action. Forget Steve Bruce Far from it. I want the best and don’t accept the same low standards a lot of you do.
|
|
|
Post by vidigal7 on Sept 27, 2023 6:55:59 GMT
You're constantly against anything scfc, never mind the manager I do live in hope though that you'll step up and save the day once Neil is untenable, we need a hero Bayern, it's your time. I want to see your wisdom in action. Forget Steve Bruce Far from it. I want the best and don’t accept the same low standards a lot of you do. Haha, you never have a positive word, come on Bayern step up with your wallet that could likely be used as a beer mat and offer to take this club into orbit. Your city needs you
|
|
|
Post by bayernoatcake on Sept 27, 2023 6:57:27 GMT
Far from it. I want the best and don’t accept the same low standards a lot of you do. Haha, you never have a positive word, come on Bayern step up with your wallet that could be used as a beer mat and offer to take this club into orbit That’s bollocks. But let’s be honest there’s been 7 years of shit with barely a positive in it. Anyway, you’re not addressing the loud booing and mass evacuation on Sunday which speaks volumes.
|
|
|
Post by brizzlestokie on Sept 27, 2023 6:59:05 GMT
The answer is No it doesn't represent all Stoke fans, unfortunately hidden identity message boards are inhabitaed by a sizeable proportion of depressives. It always will be the case, it will attract them like flies on shit. I don't think you can do a great deal about it apart from accept that, as hard viewing as it can be. It is strange though how other clubs don't have such extreme doom on their boards. Unfortunately negativity spreads like an Australian Bush fire. This club has to start like Usain bolt or once them squeaky wheels are in motion the end is nigh, it's self sabotage and at least certainly doesn't inspire growth or progression Even if other clubs are different (don't think they are - knives have been out from Swansea fans for Michael Duff already, Millwall fans have been doing 'Rowett out' chants despite them missing out on playoffs on the final day last season), how many clubs at this level have underperformed quite like we have given our budget over the past several seasons?
|
|
|
Post by vidigal7 on Sept 27, 2023 7:02:15 GMT
Haha, you never have a positive word, come on Bayern step up with your wallet that could be used as a beer mat and offer to take this club into orbit That’s bollocks. But let’s be honest there’s been 7 years of shit with barely a positive in it. Anyway, you’re not addressing the loud booing and mass evacuation on Sunday which speaks volumes. It does speak volumes, I wasn't best pleased myself. A summer full of hope dashed before entering October, I stayed until FT though, not that I'm criticising people leaving, it's their money end of the day. I do understand though patience is required for any manager not least after 17 incoming, no preseason and an unfortunate start on the injury front. Please put yourself forward though, you make it sound so easy
|
|
|
Post by wonderwall on Sept 27, 2023 7:04:59 GMT
Relegated Bottom half Bottom half Bottom half Bottom half Bottom half Probably bottom half And being in a few relegation scraps too. You can’t criticise Stoke fans for being unhappy. This grateful to exist bollocks has to stop. As do the excuses. It’s not good enough. Spot on , bravo.
|
|
|
Post by mrnovember on Sept 27, 2023 7:13:07 GMT
I mean do people not talk about Stoke at work? On the bus? In the pub? When bumping into an acquaintance in the condiments aisle in Tesco? With thier relatives? I'd say the mood on here is a very fair reflection.
I think the reaction to the almost inevitable opening goal for Bristol City on Saturday might well answer this question.
If the away fans turn that's usually a pretty good indicator.
Unfortunately for Alex, "Neil, Neil sort it out" is clumsy and doesn't quite work.
|
|
|
Post by bayernoatcake on Sept 27, 2023 7:14:34 GMT
That’s bollocks. But let’s be honest there’s been 7 years of shit with barely a positive in it. Anyway, you’re not addressing the loud booing and mass evacuation on Sunday which speaks volumes. It does speak volumes, I wasn't best pleased myself. A summer full of hope dashed before entering October, I stayed until FT though, not that I'm criticising people leaving, it's their money end of the day. I do understand though patience is required for any manager not least after 17 incoming, no preseason and an unfortunate start on the injury front. Please put yourself forward though, you make it sound so easy Yeah it says that this place is pretty much like the ground.
|
|
|
Post by vidigal7 on Sept 27, 2023 7:21:40 GMT
It does speak volumes, I wasn't best pleased myself. A summer full of hope dashed before entering October, I stayed until FT though, not that I'm criticising people leaving, it's their money end of the day. I do understand though patience is required for any manager not least after 17 incoming, no preseason and an unfortunate start on the injury front. Please put yourself forward though, you make it sound so easy Yeah it says that this place is pretty much like the ground. Fair enough, I have to admit though I did get a sense of satisfaction when I thought they'll be walking home now or in their cars wondering who just scored for Stoke and missed the goal, if we'd have got a quick second it would have been very much, game on. Call me old fashioned, I don't agree with modern day football sacking culture. Was it Alex Ferguson that stated something along the lines of a manager needing X amount of time to bare fruits. Yeah you might get lucky and get a quick fix but at some point you'll come a cropper when you get it wrong and end up with a squad full of missfits, just like we have. Our best route to success in my view is bucking the trend and allow a manager to build window on window
|
|
|
Post by vidigal7 on Sept 27, 2023 7:25:32 GMT
Even if it doesn't happen this year I genuinely believe we've brought in some good players and if we can do the same in January and next Summer aswell as have a full preseason we'll be cooking on gas. For me that's the time where it becomes clear which direction we're moving in. Its a big ask to get every part needed in one window when a major overhaul is required
|
|
|
Post by The Toxic Avenger on Sept 27, 2023 7:29:37 GMT
Yeah it says that this place is pretty much like the ground. Fair enough, I have to admit though I did get a sense of satisfaction when I thought they'll be walking home now or in their cars wondering who just scored for Stoke and missed the goal, if we'd have got a quick second it would have been very much, game on. Call me old fashioned, I don't agree with modern day football sacking culture. Was it Alex Ferguson that stated something along the lines of a manager needing X amount of time to bare fruits. Yeah you might get lucky and get a quick fix but at some point you'll come a cropper when you get it wrong and end up with a squad full of missfits, just like we have. Our best route to success in my view is bucking the trend and allow a manager to build window on window It depends on who that manager is though and whether there are signs that what they're doing is going to bear fruit. You can't just give a manager time on blind faith. If we'd given Jones more time we'd be planning a trip to Exeter or somewhere this weekend. The days of the Ferguson-type dynasty are in the past now. It drives me mad on here seeing people quote Brian Clough, the man's been dead for nearly 20 years! Neil can still turn it around but the issues we have aren't 'gelling' ones, they're deeper rooted than that and they're his fault. Either he shows he can address them in the next month or so, or the crowd turns fully and it's adios muchachos and with good reason. And I say that as someone who was very happy with the appointment and do think he's a good manager generally.
|
|
|
Post by Pugsley on Sept 27, 2023 7:31:41 GMT
It was so happy at the ground on Sunday. There wasn’t a lot of booing in the first half. And half the crowd didn’t get up and leave after the third went in. Everyone was right behind the manager. You're constantly against anything scfc, never mind the manager I do live in hope though that you'll step up and save the day once Neil is untenable, we need a hero Bayern, it's your time. I want to see your wisdom in action. Forget Steve Bruce He's just proven what you say is nonsense.
|
|
|
Post by vidigal7 on Sept 27, 2023 7:33:57 GMT
Fair enough, I have to admit though I did get a sense of satisfaction when I thought they'll be walking home now or in their cars wondering who just scored for Stoke and missed the goal, if we'd have got a quick second it would have been very much, game on. Call me old fashioned, I don't agree with modern day football sacking culture. Was it Alex Ferguson that stated something along the lines of a manager needing X amount of time to bare fruits. Yeah you might get lucky and get a quick fix but at some point you'll come a cropper when you get it wrong and end up with a squad full of missfits, just like we have. Our best route to success in my view is bucking the trend and allow a manager to build window on window It depends on who that manager is though and whether there are signs that what they're doing is going to bear fruit. You can't just give a manager time on blind faith. If we'd given Jones more time we'd be planning a trip to Exeter or somewhere this weekend. The days of the Ferguson-type dynasty are in the past now. It drives me mad on here seeing people quote Brian Clough, the man's been dead for nearly 20 years! Neil can still turn it around but the issues we have aren't 'gelling' ones, they're deeper rooted than that and they're his fault. Either he shows he can address them in the next month or so, or the crowd turns fully and it's adios muchachos and with good reason. And I say that as someone who was very happy with the appointment and do think he's a good manager generally. I think it's allready brewing and a matter of time, especially given the injuries we have. We want success and we want it now, it's not going to happen though and the new man coming in will be required to hit the ground running, the poor sod will be on a hiding to nothing, rinse and repeat. This is why we won't achieve sod all
|
|
|
Post by The Toxic Avenger on Sept 27, 2023 7:39:30 GMT
It depends on who that manager is though and whether there are signs that what they're doing is going to bear fruit. You can't just give a manager time on blind faith. If we'd given Jones more time we'd be planning a trip to Exeter or somewhere this weekend. The days of the Ferguson-type dynasty are in the past now. It drives me mad on here seeing people quote Brian Clough, the man's been dead for nearly 20 years! Neil can still turn it around but the issues we have aren't 'gelling' ones, they're deeper rooted than that and they're his fault. Either he shows he can address them in the next month or so, or the crowd turns fully and it's adios muchachos and with good reason. And I say that as someone who was very happy with the appointment and do think he's a good manager generally. I think it's allready brewing and a matter of time, especially given the injuries we have. We want success and we want it now, it's not going to happen though and the new man coming in will be required to hit the ground running, the poor sod will be on a hiding to nothing, rinse and repeat. This is why we won't achieve sod all That sounds worryingly close to blaming the fans though. It isn't 'we want success and we want it now', it's that we want some signs that things are improving - most people would be happy with a top half finish playing front-foot football. Neil can still deliver that but when he puts out a team that can't defend a basic set piece and reacts to the sight of Aaron Connolly as if he's Jason Voorhees with a chainsaw, that really isn't on anyone else but him. It's basic stuff, that's what's so worrying. That he's abandoned his big vision based on an injury-prone left back getting injured also doesn't speak to brilliant planning, and for a supposed tactician he's being worrying tactically outgunned a lot by the bloke in the other dugout. As people have said, it's hard for a new bunch of players to build any momentum if you're constantly dicking around with the system and personnel and worrying about the opposition. He looks like The Brain, he talks like The Brain, but he's behaving like Pinky.
|
|
|
Post by svengaliinplatforms on Sept 27, 2023 7:40:49 GMT
Yeah it says that this place is pretty much like the ground. Fair enough, I have to admit though I did get a sense of satisfaction when I thought they'll be walking home now or in their cars wondering who just scored for Stoke and missed the goal, if we'd have got a quick second it would have been very much, game on. Call me old fashioned, I don't agree with modern day football sacking culture. Was it Alex Ferguson that stated something along the lines of a manager needing X amount of time to bare fruits. Yeah you might get lucky and get a quick fix but at some point you'll come a cropper when you get it wrong and end up with a squad full of missfits, just like we have. Our best route to success in my view is bucking the trend and allow a manager to build window on window Would you give Alex Neil the whole season then, to get his squad settled - if it meant that as a result, we got relegated? If the answer to that is 'no' - where do you draw the line? Genuine question.
|
|
|
Post by danceswithclams on Sept 27, 2023 7:44:40 GMT
It drives me mad on here seeing people quote Brian Clough, the man's been dead for nearly 20 years! That'll be @kingsman - loves a Cloughy quote that lad does. There could be a thread discussing the pedestrianisation of Norwich city centre and he'd still manage to crowbar in a bit of wisdom from the legendary former Forest and Derby boss 😅
|
|
|
Post by vidigal7 on Sept 27, 2023 7:46:06 GMT
I think it's allready brewing and a matter of time, especially given the injuries we have. We want success and we want it now, it's not going to happen though and the new man coming in will be required to hit the ground running, the poor sod will be on a hiding to nothing, rinse and repeat. This is why we won't achieve sod all That sounds worryingly close to blaming the fans though. It isn't 'we want success and we want it now', it's that we want some signs that things are improving - most people would be happy with a top half finish playing front-foot football. Neil can still deliver that but when he puts out a team that can't defend a basic set piece and reacts to the sight of Aaron Connolly as if he's Jason Voorhees with a chainsaw, that really isn't on anyone else but him. It's basic stuff, that's what's so worrying. That he's abandoned his big vision based on an injury-prone left back getting injured also doesn't speak to brilliant planning, and for a supposed tactician he's being worrying tactically outgunned a lot by the bloke in the other dugout. As people have said, it's hard for a new bunch of players to build any momentum if you're constantly dicking around with the system and personnel and worrying about the opposition. He looks like The Brain, he talks like The Brain, but he's behaving like Pinky. He's in unchartered territory though as would most managers bringing in a new squad without the benefit of a preseason. I get the tinkering around bit but if we've missed out on a couple of key targets your vision probably gets a bit distorted. I've said myself he's got to settle on a formation early doors but if the options arn't there to do what you want wether that's through injuries, missed targets or both it can become difficult quickly. I thought a season was judged over 46 games anyway so it depends what your expectations are, which we all differ. My idea of instant progress is a definate improvement in playing staff, I believe that to be the case regardless of immediate results
|
|
|
Post by mickeythemaestro on Sept 27, 2023 7:47:14 GMT
Fair enough, I have to admit though I did get a sense of satisfaction when I thought they'll be walking home now or in their cars wondering who just scored for Stoke and missed the goal, if we'd have got a quick second it would have been very much, game on. Call me old fashioned, I don't agree with modern day football sacking culture. Was it Alex Ferguson that stated something along the lines of a manager needing X amount of time to bare fruits. Yeah you might get lucky and get a quick fix but at some point you'll come a cropper when you get it wrong and end up with a squad full of missfits, just like we have. Our best route to success in my view is bucking the trend and allow a manager to build window on window Would you give Alex Neil the whole season then, to get his squad settled - if it meant that as a result, we got relegated? If the answer to that is 'no' - where do you draw the line? Genuine question. Personally I'd give him this run of games to the international break. He doesn't have to win them all. Maybe even just one victory. But what he needs to show is some sparks of life and show that there is a plan in there somewhere. Currently its all over the shop. 17 players in and already we are square pegs round holes and playing different systems. Its a terrible look particularly seeing as he's been here 15 months.
|
|
|
Post by baconburger on Sept 27, 2023 7:48:42 GMT
I think the oatcake is very representative of our fan base. Just not sure whether our fan base is the best body to listen to in achieving a better product. Our owners views of football are also pretty representative of the fan base which leads them to make certain types of appointments to run the club, call them what you like cautious, pragmatic, conservative, we seem to nearly always employ managers who whilst their methods differ wildly focus on not losing over winning, not conceding over scoring. Allergic to flamboyance or controversy I think they try to be far too safe. The recent transfer window has shown a change in direction which I think on the whole is positive and I hope like the Nathan Jones experiment it doesn’t crash and burn and see us flee to our comfort blanket of known uninspiring, dull, old, British, dour. I just think the different approach needs more of a chance than the one that has failed time and time again. If AN eventually has to go based on outcomes will they employ a different type of character more suited to making use of the new profile of player we have recruited, I certainly wouldn’t bet any money on it.
|
|
|
Post by svengaliinplatforms on Sept 27, 2023 7:51:14 GMT
Would you give Alex Neil the whole season then, to get his squad settled - if it meant that as a result, we got relegated? If the answer to that is 'no' - where do you draw the line? Genuine question. Personally I'd give him this run of games to the international break. He doesn't have to win them all. Maybe even just one victory. But what he needs to show is some sparks of life and show that there is a plan in there somewhere. Currently its all over the shop. 17 players in and already we are square pegs round holes and playing different systems. Its a terrible look particularly seeing as he's been here 15 months. Vidigal7 has just made two points; 1. We should give the manager time, and successive windows to build something. 2. A season should be judged over 46 games. There's an argument for both of these. But the risk is - you are relegated whilst trying to provide continuity and stability. And right now, that feels like a real potential risk.
|
|
|
Post by vidigal7 on Sept 27, 2023 7:55:50 GMT
Personally I'd give him this run of games to the international break. He doesn't have to win them all. Maybe even just one victory. But what he needs to show is some sparks of life and show that there is a plan in there somewhere. Currently its all over the shop. 17 players in and already we are square pegs round holes and playing different systems. Its a terrible look particularly seeing as he's been here 15 months. But Vidigal7 has just made two points; 1. We should give the manager time, and successive windows to build something. 2. A season should be judged over 46 games. There's an argument for both of these. But the risk is - you are relegated whilst trying to provide continuity and stability. And right now, that feels like a potential risk. It's true what they say, life is what happens well you're busy making other plans. I'd much rather a long term vision than winging it in the hope of a quick fix though. Long term vision requires long term patience
|
|
|
Post by leicspotter on Sept 27, 2023 8:01:03 GMT
I think the oatcake is very representative of our fan base. Just not sure whether our fan base is the best body to listen to in achieving a better product. Our owners views of football are also pretty representative of the fan base which leads them to make certain types of appointments to run the club, call them what you like cautious, pragmatic, conservative, we seem to nearly always employ managers who whilst their methods differ wildly focus on not losing over winning, not conceding over scoring. Allergic to flamboyance or controversy I think they try to be far too safe. The recent transfer window has shown a change in direction which I think on the whole is positive and I hope like the Nathan Jones experiment it doesn’t crash and burn and see us flee to our comfort blanket of known uninspiring, dull, old, British, dour. I just think the different approach needs more of a chance than the one that has failed time and time again. If AN eventually has to go based on outcomes will they employ a different type of character more suited to making use of the new profile of player we have recruited, I certainly wouldn’t bet any money on it. And there you have it, a recruitment team bringing in exciting talent and, quite possibly, the archetypal dour Scot being charged with making it work. I know that AN's personality does not sit well with a section of the club (behind the scenes) I just hope he has the nous to gel this squad asap and make this a season to remember for the RIGHT reasons. I think he'll get until Christmas to show that things are starting to work
|
|
|
Post by baconburger on Sept 27, 2023 8:08:11 GMT
But Vidigal7 has just made two points; 1. We should give the manager time, and successive windows to build something. 2. A season should be judged over 46 games. There's an argument for both of these. But the risk is - you are relegated whilst trying to provide continuity and stability. And right now, that feels like a potential risk. It's true what they say, life is what happens well you're busy making other plans. I'd much rather a long term vision than winging it in the hope of a quick fix though. Long term vision requires long term patience All I would ask is what in your opinion is the long term vision? I see a long term vision in they type of players we’ve recruited especially the more speculative acquisitions. I’m not however of the opinion that they’re either the type of deals the manager would have wanted nor are them and him a match made in heaven ie I’m not overly confident in him getting the best out of them so is the long term vision the recruitment process or the appointment of this manager or can you see how they complement each other?
|
|