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Post by wakefieldstokie on Sept 18, 2023 14:31:32 GMT
Just so those of us who aren’t too pleased with the start we’ve made know, when does the ‘let the team gel’ period end? But I guess by then the other teams will be even more gelled than us. And then there’s the injuries. And the bad luck. Any more excuses? Firstly no one is happy, clearly. Personally, I'd say by the end of Oct/early Nov. Is that ok for those that dont understand the concept?
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Post by cheadlepotter on Sept 18, 2023 14:37:16 GMT
Just so those of us who aren’t too pleased with the start we’ve made know, when does the ‘let the team gel’ period end? But I guess by then the other teams will be even more gelled than us. And then there’s the injuries. And the bad luck. Any more excuses? Firstly no one is happy, clearly. Personally, I'd say by the end of Oct/early Nov. Is that ok for those that dont understand the concept? No that’s ok. I suppose it gives you a bit of time to get the new excuses ready.
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Post by wakefieldstokie on Sept 18, 2023 14:45:18 GMT
Firstly no one is happy, clearly. Personally, I'd say by the end of Oct/early Nov. Is that ok for those that dont understand the concept? No that’s ok. I suppose it gives you a bit of time to get the new excuses ready. What are you on about, excuses? Im basing it on the fact it's 6 sodding games. After 10 games you can get a clearer picture. I want my team to do well, I'm not Alex Neils wife, why would anyone want to make excuses for him? You make no sense.
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Post by cheadlepotter on Sept 18, 2023 14:54:05 GMT
No that’s ok. I suppose it gives you a bit of time to get the new excuses ready. What are you on about, excuses? Im basing it on the fact it's 6 sodding games. After 10 games you can get a clearer picture. I want my team to do well, I'm not Alex Neils wife, why would anyone want to make excuses for him? You make no sense. I’m just sick of the excuses all the time (not directed at you but the club in general). It might only be six games, but he’s already needlessly playing players out of position. That’s nothing to do with having new players, it’s just needless pissing about.
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Post by jesusmcmuffin on Sept 18, 2023 15:02:36 GMT
Just so those of us who aren’t too pleased with the start we’ve made know, when does the ‘let the team gel’ period end? But I guess by then the other teams will be even more gelled than us. And then there’s the injuries. And the bad luck. Any more excuses? The club is Toxic The owners Concourses are too small MON Kitson
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Post by thevoid on Sept 18, 2023 15:12:12 GMT
Just so those of us who aren’t too pleased with the start we’ve made know, when does the ‘let the team gel’ period end? But I guess by then the other teams will be even more gelled than us. And then there’s the injuries. And the bad luck. Any more excuses? AN has a horsehoe on his kitchen wall which will have slipped upside down, ushering in bad luck. That'll be next
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Post by jokker on Sept 18, 2023 15:30:17 GMT
As other people have said on this thread, it wouldn’t bother me if he went tomorrow. I can’t say I’ve warmed to him at all. But can we keep changing manager nearly every year? We can - other clubs do - but doing so will only make it worse. I wish we would, but that makes me the stupid one. With the amount of new intake at nearly all levels of the organisation, the very last thing the club needs is new and major upheaval, with a new manager coming in and demanding his players, his coaches, his youth manager, his tea lady, you name it, and the former man's old players hanging around to collect their contracts' worth. We can go down if it turns out that way and we would recover. But changing all those positions on a nearly yearly basis would spiral us out of control.
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Post by wakefieldstokie on Sept 18, 2023 15:49:26 GMT
What are you on about, excuses? Im basing it on the fact it's 6 sodding games. After 10 games you can get a clearer picture. I want my team to do well, I'm not Alex Neils wife, why would anyone want to make excuses for him? You make no sense. I’m just sick of the excuses all the time (not directed at you but the club in general). It might only be six games, but he’s already needlessly playing players out of position. That’s nothing to do with having new players, it’s just needless pissing about. Yeah I get that. There's certainly a few concerns.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2023 13:32:43 GMT
No interest in excuses .
They are his players. He signed them. All 18 of them.
Success or failure is on AN's head .
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2023 13:49:28 GMT
No interest in excuses . They are his players. He signed them. All 18 of them. Success or failure is on AN's head . I agree, but judge that at the end of the season.
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Post by jesusmcmuffin on Sept 19, 2023 13:51:16 GMT
No interest in excuses . They are his players. He signed them. All 18 of them. Success or failure is on AN's head . Odd if you don't know what to do with players you signed to play certain roles in your own system ...is totally on his head, yes. Needs a win tomorrow but won't make everything suddenly ok
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Post by pavel on Sept 19, 2023 14:15:26 GMT
Well we had 7 points after 6 games last season so statistically we are worse off to date. We then got 6 points in the next 6 games so I think we will have a good idea where we are after the next 6 games.
So 7 points needed to match last seasons abysmal start over the next 6 games, at the moment 7 points feels a bit of an ask the way results have been going which will mean after a quarter of the season we will be worse of than last year. Hopefully Neil will pull his finger out, the team will gel, pigs will fly and we all will be well in the sunny uplands.
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Post by independent on Sept 20, 2023 0:05:50 GMT
Give the guy a chance. And I think everyone knows that I am not his biggest fan. He might get lucky, this is not the time to even think about changing manager.Let's try and stabilise the club before we start gambling again.We are only back on our feet financially since the end of June. Let's take a bit of time to think about the best way forward. At Christmas time a decision will have to be taken about whether AN should be allowed to spend money on even more players in January. Or whether he should be told to make do with the 18 that he has already signed.
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Post by questionable on Sept 20, 2023 7:03:42 GMT
Chatting at work yesterday and he was referred to as Nathan Jones Mk2, which pretty much sums him up for me.
Talks a good game but in reality an abysmal manager, there’s no way this bloke can put a few wins together.
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Post by bunnyscfc on Sept 20, 2023 7:39:49 GMT
When folk say give him a chance, just how long does that mean? Genuine question.
He's had 51 games and won just 18 of them. There's little evidence of a style or identity.
75 games, 100 games.....just what constitutes "a chance"?
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Post by spiderpuss on Sept 20, 2023 7:46:44 GMT
Watford swap all the time. I personally wouldn't get too hung up on spinning the wheel. It's hardly unusual anymore.
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Post by Pirate on Sept 20, 2023 7:54:39 GMT
Chatting at work yesterday and he was referred to as Nathan Jones Mk2, which pretty much sums him up for me. Talks a good game but in reality an abysmal manager, there’s no way this bloke can put a few wins together. An abysmal manager who has a promotion in 3 of his 4 jobs prior to this one at 42? What in the ' reality ' you speak of constitutes a decent manager? Judge him on what he achieves here in the long run by all means but we would struggle to employ somebody with a more decent record.
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Post by nottsover60 on Sept 20, 2023 8:28:20 GMT
I think Neil's comment about Middlesborough in his latest press conference is a valid one. Middlesborough lost their forwards this summer and the rest of the team is basically the same as last year. Strikers and the first goal are so important. I think he said for everything bar goals and points Middlesborough's stats are as good as last year but because they can't score they are down at the bottom of the table. Yet they are only trying to overhaul their forward line.
Stoke are not only overhauling their whole team but are missing the two men brought in to score the goals. And no, Wesley wasn't brought in to score, he was brought in as a player who we could target passes to when under the cosh and who could hold on to the ball for other players to join him.
Campbell should really be stepping up for us but I don't think he is that sort of character, he isn't a leader who will step up when we are struggling. He is a confidence player who plays well when the team are playing well but unfortunately was injured when we were playing well with Vidigal and to a lesser extent Mmaee scoring and threatening.
I still feel that eventually both us and Middlesborough will be clear of relegation and that our forward line with Vidigal, Mmaee and Campbell will come good.
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Post by Rick Grimes on Sept 20, 2023 8:31:14 GMT
When folk say give him a chance, just how long does that mean? Genuine question. He's had 51 games and won just 18 of them. There's little evidence of a style or identity. 75 games, 100 games.....just what constitutes "a chance"? This season at least, barring a complete free fall which I don’t see happening. People are focusing on his overall record with us but the reality is that last seasons squad was so bad and finished where it did completely on merit, it was a bottom of half of the Championship squad and teams in the bottom half of the Championship don’t have good records. If I hadn’t of witnessed the purple patch I’d be a lot more concerned than I currently am but I think the purple patch was how Neil wants to play consistently and the players we had last season just weren’t capable of maintaining it. This season is a completely different story, he’s been backed well and has to demonstrate improvement, it would be disappointing if we failed to finish in the top 10.
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Post by FullerMagic on Sept 20, 2023 8:37:31 GMT
13 months in, and there is a lack of enthusiasm for him - and that'll only change with results.
The problem is he's got the real issues associated with gelling nearly 20 new players especially with no obvious goalscorer for the last few weeks - but on the back of the stench of the bulk of last season (and, to an extent, the 4 years before that which he had nothing to do with!), but which can't fully be divorced as part of some great fresh reset, with only the memory of last March to really sustain him.
Hudds A Hull H Bristol City A Soton H Leics A Sunderland H Leeds H Boro A Cardiff H Cov A
To be seen as kicking on, we'll have to break through the point-a-game malaise over the next couple of months. And it's certainly not a given looking at the next 10 games.
If we fail to do that, we'll be in the bottom six entering the winter again, and you fear for him a little bit.
The Michael Carrick situation has shown how the sands are always shifting at the mercy of actual results, regardless of how stable they can fleetingly appear to be, and what ownership wants. Carrick was a candidate for sainthood on Teesside last spring - and now their fans are giving him two games max.
4 points from tonight and Sunday, and things will be looking a bit brighter, especially if Vidigal and Mmaee are back.
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Sept 20, 2023 8:40:58 GMT
The quality of the players we have on our books this season looks way better than last. The problem is they aren't playing like a team which is hardly surprising.
It's going to take time for players to settle and a first 11 to emerge and gel. Anyone asking for a change of manager is both pissing in the wind (it isn't going to happen) and needs to give their head a wobble (it's what we did at the same point last season and didn't do anybody any favours).
Unless we are in relegation trouble at Xmas Neal isn't going anywhere and a top half finish will see him safe next season. That is as true now as it was at the start of the season.
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Post by johnnysoul60 on Sept 20, 2023 8:42:21 GMT
Watford swap all the time. I personally wouldn't get too hung up on spinning the wheel. It's hardly unusual anymore. The problem with that is Watford have a system and people who sort lots of things out like recruitment, Stoke has abdicated all its responsibility and delegated everything on the football side to Neil and people he is connected with , so we have to hope that by the end of the season we at least have a few players to work with. That is what annoys me, the bloke hasn't made a positive impact in terms of what happens on the pitch yet they seem to have given him the power to ride coach and horses through the club with his ideas, goodness knows what they will do if it ends up becoming a bad season. It is too early to judge too harshly, some of the players look ok but the problem that we have had for about 7 years now of being pretty weak in both the defensive and attacking thirds of the pitch seems to remain and for all the possession stats in the world being strong in those areas is where this division is won and lost
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Post by pavel on Sept 20, 2023 9:52:53 GMT
13 months in, and there is a lack of enthusiasm for him - and that'll only change with results. The problem is he's got the real issues associated with gelling nearly 20 new players especially with no obvious goalscorer for the last few weeks - but on the back of the stench of the bulk of last season (and, to an extent, the 4 years before that which he had nothing to do with!), but which can't fully be divorced as part of some great fresh reset, with only the memory of last March to really sustain him. Hudds A Hull H Bristol City A Soton H Leics A Sunderland H Leeds H Boro A Cardiff H Cov A To be seen as kicking on, we'll have to break through the point-a-game malaise over the next couple of months. And it's certainly not a given looking at the next 10 games. If we fail to do that, we'll be in the bottom six entering the winter again, and you fear for him a little bit. The Michael Carrick situation has shown how the sands are always shifting at the mercy of actual results, regardless of how stable they can fleetingly appear to be, and what ownership wants. Carrick was a candidate for sainthood on Teesside last spring - and now their fans are giving him two games max. 4 points from tonight and Sunday, and things will be looking a bit brighter, especially if Vidigal and Mmaee are back. Spot on and yes we do need to kick on but the next 6 games are crucial, if we continue as we have started we will be on a par for last season, which will be unacceptable. I listen and read how we are playing well the 2nd half, in patches, making chances but missing them, that all will be fine once Vidigal and Mmaee are back. We've been saying this since we came down (not Neil's fault for all of it , of course) but the way I see it masks the problem of we don't seem to have or execute a game plan and if we do that game plan must be wrong. People say the midfield is fine, but does it create anything, is it structured right to support the forwards as well as shielding the defence. Creating chances, well we create a few but no where near enough, no striker will take every chance, maybe 1 in 2 or 3 no matter how easy they appear to be. As for Vidigal and Mmaee we are asking a lot when they come back and probably asking too much, Vidigal will be targeted now, teams will know he's a threat and take measures to nullify him, I like Mmaee but he's scored 1 goal, not surprisingly, he will need time. Campbell, let's not forget our top scorer last season, has comeback from injury and I think it's almost as hard for our established players to adjust to all the incomings as the newbies. We have to start playing well for 90 minutes, how many times have we said that, Neil has to sort out his tactics from the start, find his best team and not tinker too much and he has to play players in their proper positions, whether the are established here or new. I have some sympathy for Neil, he's joined a club that has underperformed for 6 years, but I'm not giving him a free pass for last year, he should have done much, much better or for the now. This start for the season is on a par with everything that's gone before and I"m fed up of hearing about "promise", jam tomorrow, we have injuries, needing to gel, bad luck, possession stats where we play safety, safety passes all the time and rarely open up the opposing teams defence. I find it hard to remember the last time we have split a defence with a player clean through. After the next 6 games, which won't be easy, we will be a quarter of the way through the season, will we be looking as if we are pushing on, looking forward to better things or watching our backs again with a chasm between us and the top 6 and hovering around the bottom 6. It's down to Neil now, he's got the players he feels he needs, if we fail he will be responsible. It's his job to transform these players into a cohesive group that can compete consistently week on week.
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Post by idle on Sept 20, 2023 10:14:22 GMT
Watford swap all the time. I personally wouldn't get too hung up on spinning the wheel. It's hardly unusual anymore. Also, where's Watford again? 7 places above us, with a team that struggles to put two decent performances together, including against us. Not a fan of their managerial policy, and neither are their fans it seems.
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Post by spiderpuss on Sept 20, 2023 12:42:08 GMT
Watford swap all the time. I personally wouldn't get too hung up on spinning the wheel. It's hardly unusual anymore. Also, where's Watford again? 7 places above us, with a team that struggles to put two decent performances together, including against us. Not a fan of their managerial policy, and neither are their fans it seems. Previously Watford span the wheel and it got them promoted, so we can draw all sorts of conclusions. I'm just saying that any manager shouldn't be regarded in any sort of sacrosanct precious manner. If the results don't stack up, then move on.
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Post by spiderpuss on Sept 20, 2023 12:45:18 GMT
Watford swap all the time. I personally wouldn't get too hung up on spinning the wheel. It's hardly unusual anymore. The problem with that is Watford have a system and people who sort lots of things out like recruitment, Stoke has abdicated all its responsibility and delegated everything on the football side to Neil and people he is connected with , so we have to hope that by the end of the season we at least have a few players to work with. That is what annoys me, the bloke hasn't made a positive impact in terms of what happens on the pitch yet they seem to have given him the power to ride coach and horses through the club with his ideas, goodness knows what they will do if it ends up becoming a bad season. It is too early to judge too harshly, some of the players look ok but the problem that we have had for about 7 years now of being pretty weak in both the defensive and attacking thirds of the pitch seems to remain and for all the possession stats in the world being strong in those areas is where this division is won and lost That is a worry and he does seem to have a had lot of power handed over to him. However I'll definitely start judging as harshly as I like. 50+ games gives me that right.
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Post by PotteringThrough on Sept 20, 2023 13:07:06 GMT
I mistakenly clicked on the league table earlier. It makes for grim reading.
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Sept 20, 2023 13:11:25 GMT
Just so those of us who aren’t too pleased with the start we’ve made know, when does the ‘let the team gel’ period end? But I guess by then the other teams will be even more gelled than us. And then there’s the injuries. And the bad luck. Any more excuses? The club is Toxic The owners Concourses are too small MON Kitson Don't forget Scholes. I know he's gone but its defo still his fault too 😆
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Post by bertiestan on Sept 20, 2023 13:23:38 GMT
A few weeks ago you lot were buzzing about the mother of all transfer windows n 6 weeks in its all turned to shit🤦🏼♂️😂 give your heads a wobble ffs😂
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Post by Bojan Mackey on Sept 20, 2023 13:33:53 GMT
A few weeks ago you lot were buzzing about the mother of all transfer windows n 6 weeks in its all turned to shit🤦🏼♂️😂 give your heads a wobble ffs😂 Well, it has….
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