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Post by theglove on Sept 17, 2023 16:08:46 GMT
One slight positive:
We have played (and, granted, lost to) 3 of the current top 4. Pl W Pt
1 Preston 6 6 16 2 Leicester 6 6 15 3 Ipswich 6 5 15 4 Norwich 6 7 13
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Post by jesusmcmuffin on Sept 17, 2023 16:19:22 GMT
Quite a few
We could have scored 3 here, 2 there, 1 at Millwall.
Thank God we played Rotherham as apart from that game we've only scored once in the league
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Post by baconburger on Sept 17, 2023 16:20:39 GMT
It most definitely isn't worse than last season. We are 6 points better off from the corresponding fixtures. I am not sure the 'corresponding fixtures' have anything to do with it. We don't have a 'fixed annual result' against anyone! They're not fixed but certainly a fair guide as to what to expect. Of the 3 away fixtures we've lost 1 of them isn't directly replicated the other 2 we got battered 3-1 and have lost both 1-0. We've reversed a 0-4 home loss to Watford to a 1-0 win a 0-1 home loss to Rotherham into a 4-1 win. The only game that could even be described as a worse outcome to last season is a 0-1 home loss to Preston to a 0-2 loss. So every result bar Preston has an element of progress, which makes the statement "this is worse than last season" pure stupidity.
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Post by SamB_SCFC on Sept 17, 2023 16:35:11 GMT
One slight positive: We have played (and, granted, lost to) 3 of the current top 4. Pl W Pt
1 Preston 6 6 16 2 Leicester 6 6 15 3 Ipswich 6 5 15 4 Norwich 6 7 13
The problem is that the season is still so young that it could be argued that the 3 points against us is playing a bit part in them being so high in the division.
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Post by nottsover60 on Sept 17, 2023 16:43:23 GMT
It most definitely isn't worse than last season. We are 6 points better off from the corresponding fixtures. I am not sure the 'corresponding fixtures' have anything to do with it. We don't have a 'fixed annual result' against anyone! No but you can't say this is worse than last year when we've won two fixtures that we lost last year and all our losses, were also losses last year. In which world does that equate to worse than last year? The fixture list has not been kind to us at the start of this season and after 6 matches you cannot tell how well any team will do so if you want to compare the two seasons at this point you have to look at how we did against the same teams. So far we have only played one team that you would expect to be in the relegation mix at the end of the season. The others are far more likely to be competing for the play off places.
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Post by Rick Grimes on Sept 17, 2023 16:46:19 GMT
Other than Vidigal and Travers none of the new players have improved this team. I mean quite a few of the new players have barely played …..
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Post by questionable on Sept 17, 2023 16:52:26 GMT
At the end of the day it’s said been said he needs his own team, unfortunately despite a massive influx he still doesn’t know his own team but neglected the glaringly obvious that we needed a goal scorer/CB/LB.
For me he’s carried on exactly where he left off from last season, Clueless.
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Post by scfcno1fan on Sept 17, 2023 16:56:46 GMT
As other people have said on this thread, it wouldn’t bother me if he went tomorrow.
I can’t say I’ve warmed to him at all.
But can we keep changing manager nearly every year?
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Post by neddy on Sept 17, 2023 17:03:45 GMT
I think some of the guesswork that he failed to get a centre forward, centre half and left back is really harsh. None of us know what goes on fully re transfers and I’m sure it wasn’t for the want of trying?
The posts that suggest we ignored theses areas are ridiculous rubbish for me as you just can’t get everything you want so easily in one window and that was always going to be the case wasn’t it?
The thought you can just get whatever you want within FFP constraints and budgets is just for the birds.
It’s a worry where we are of course and I’m just as pissed off as most but crikey give it a bit more time?
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Post by benjaminbiscuit on Sept 17, 2023 17:20:37 GMT
I think some of the guesswork that he failed to get a centre forward, centre half and left back is really harsh. None of us know what goes on fully re transfers and I’m sure it wasn’t for the want of trying? The posts that suggest we ignored theses areas are ridiculous rubbish for me as you just can’t get everything you want so easily in one window and that was always going to be the case wasn’t it? The thought you can just get whatever you want within FFP constraints and budgets is just for the birds. It’s a worry where we are of course and I’m just as pissed off as most but crikey give it a bit more time? It’s what’s he and his bromance mate are paid handsomely to do ide,tiny weakness and improve by effective recruitment if Wesley is the best available they aren’t looking in the right places
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Post by neddy on Sept 17, 2023 17:28:15 GMT
I agree Wesley isn’t the answer but I say again you are assuming we were negligent without knowing the full ins and outs of the window as it progressed?
If you have specific knowledge of who we missed and why say so as anything else is pure guesswork on your part?
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Post by theglove on Sept 17, 2023 19:28:33 GMT
One slight positive: We have played (and, granted, lost to) 3 of the current top 4. Pl W Pt
1 Preston 6 6 16 2 Leicester 6 6 15 3 Ipswich 6 5 15 4 Norwich 6 7 13
The problem is that the season is still so young that it could be argued that the 3 points against us is playing a bit part in them being so high in the division. Alright, adjusted for taking away our results: team played points -stoke result Adjusted* LEICS 6 15 15 15 PNE 6 16 13 15.6 HUL 6 13 13 13 IPS 6 15 12 14.4 NOR 6 15 12 14.4
So we've lost to 3 of the top 5
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Post by Gods on Sept 17, 2023 21:29:55 GMT
I am not sure the 'corresponding fixtures' have anything to do with it. We don't have a 'fixed annual result' against anyone! No but you can't say this is worse than last year when we've won two fixtures that we lost last year and all our losses, were also losses last year. In which world does that equate to worse than last year? The fixture list has not been kind to us at the start of this season and after 6 matches you cannot tell how well any team will do so if you want to compare the two seasons at this point you have to look at how we did against the same teams. So far we have only played one team that you would expect to be in the relegation mix at the end of the season. The others are far more likely to be competing for the play off places. You don't compare your form across 2 different seasons by trying to match the corresponding results against the same teams from the previous season. It's a nonsense. We have 6 points from 5 matches which, if we keep that up, will see us finish on 55 points. Last season we finished on 62 points. So we are a little bit off the pace from last season. It's far from unrecoverable of course.
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Post by baconburger on Sept 17, 2023 21:33:38 GMT
No but you can't say this is worse than last year when we've won two fixtures that we lost last year and all our losses, were also losses last year. In which world does that equate to worse than last year? The fixture list has not been kind to us at the start of this season and after 6 matches you cannot tell how well any team will do so if you want to compare the two seasons at this point you have to look at how we did against the same teams. So far we have only played one team that you would expect to be in the relegation mix at the end of the season. The others are far more likely to be competing for the play off places. You don't compare your form across 2 different seasons by trying to match the corresponding results against the same teams from the previous season. It's a nonsense. We have 6 points from 5 matches which, if we keep that up, will see us finish on 55 points. Last season we finished on 62 points. So we are a little bit off the pace from last season. It's far from unrecoverable of course. Don’t you I’ve always done it. I’d bet you a pound to a pinch of shit it’s a far more reliable indicator than whatever gameweek you happen to be on.
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Post by nottsover60 on Sept 18, 2023 0:21:46 GMT
No but you can't say this is worse than last year when we've won two fixtures that we lost last year and all our losses, were also losses last year. In which world does that equate to worse than last year? The fixture list has not been kind to us at the start of this season and after 6 matches you cannot tell how well any team will do so if you want to compare the two seasons at this point you have to look at how we did against the same teams. So far we have only played one team that you would expect to be in the relegation mix at the end of the season. The others are far more likely to be competing for the play off places. You don't compare your form across 2 different seasons by trying to match the corresponding results against the same teams from the previous season. It's a nonsense. We have 6 points from 5 matches which, if we keep that up, will see us finish on 55 points. Last season we finished on 62 points. So we are a little bit off the pace from last season. It's far from unrecoverable of course. So you think points per game after just 6 matches is a better indicator? Most teams end up in roughly the same area of the table each year. If after 6 games this season you have played 6 teams likely to be fighting for promotion is it fair to compare your standing to last season when you played 6 teams likely to end up nearer relegation?(Not saying that is what happened, but after such a few number of matches it is likely that some teams have played 6 more difficult matches and others have played 6 weaker teams) I will admit that as happened last year an early 4-1defeat to Huddersfield who the previous season had been in the playoff final didn't look too bad but ended up being a poor result. At the moment though I don't think any of our results scream disaster. If you went through the teams before you knew the fixture list I don't think any but the brightest optimist would have expected more points than we've got from those 6 matches. In fact most would have not given us three points v Watford but probably a point v Preston (although our record against them is abysmal - 5 defeats and I draw at home since we were relegated I think. Some who take little interest in what is happening to teams outside SoT might have put us down for 3 points against Ipswich but that would have been a blinkered view. Basically I think what I am saying is that after 6 matches it is ridiculous to say as the thread title claims, we are worse than last year. Until you have played roughly 15 games will the fixture have evened out and the table be settling down to what you can expect roughly at the end of the season and then points per game becomes more useful a way of comparing this season to last but even then there are 6 stronger teams in the division this season than last. Certainly in terms of entertainment at home (I don't go to away matches like about 18000 other fans, so can't comment) there has been a big improvement this year.
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Post by independent on Sept 18, 2023 1:27:26 GMT
No but you can't say this is worse than last year when we've won two fixtures that we lost last year and all our losses, were also losses last year. In which world does that equate to worse than last year? The fixture list has not been kind to us at the start of this season and after 6 matches you cannot tell how well any team will do so if you want to compare the two seasons at this point you have to look at how we did against the same teams. So far we have only played one team that you would expect to be in the relegation mix at the end of the season. The others are far more likely to be competing for the play off places. You don't compare your form across 2 different seasons by trying to match the corresponding results against the same teams from the previous season. It's a nonsense. We have 6 points from 5 matches which, if we keep that up, will see us finish on 55 points. Last season we finished on 62 points.So we are a little bit off the pace from last season. It's far from unrecoverable of course. You are getting your years mixed up. MON finished with 62 points in 2021/22. Last season AN finished with 53 points. So, if he finishes with 55 points this year this will be an improvement. I don't understand how any comparison between results last year and this year against other clubs could be valid. We are a totally different side playing against a different Preston etc. In fact Ipswich weren't even in our league last year. All these ifs and buts are meaningless. All teams get injuries, so the team we played against last season may have been a weakened one or we may have been missing our best players at the time. It is all rubbish. As late as March last year it was impossible to tell who would make the playoffs, so it is obviously impossible to predict now where anyone will finish this season.
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Post by Gods on Sept 18, 2023 7:16:21 GMT
You don't compare your form across 2 different seasons by trying to match the corresponding results against the same teams from the previous season. It's a nonsense. We have 6 points from 5 matches which, if we keep that up, will see us finish on 55 points. Last season we finished on 62 points.So we are a little bit off the pace from last season. It's far from unrecoverable of course. You are getting your years mixed up. MON finished with 62 points in 2021/22. Last season AN finished with 53 points. So, if he finishes with 55 points this year this will be an improvement. I don't understand how any comparison between results last year and this year against other clubs could be valid. We are a totally different side playing against a different Preston etc. In fact Ipswich weren't even in our league last year. All these ifs and buts are meaningless. All teams get injuries, so the team we played against last season may have been a weakened one or we may have been missing our best players at the time. It is all rubbish. As late as March last year it was impossible to tell who would make the playoffs, so it is obviously impossible to predict now where anyone will finish this season. Fair point, I picked up the wrong league table, my mistake. So right now, very early days, we are tracking to match last season under AN which was 9 points worse than the season before under MON!
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Post by Gods on Sept 18, 2023 7:21:05 GMT
You don't compare your form across 2 different seasons by trying to match the corresponding results against the same teams from the previous season. It's a nonsense. We have 6 points from 5 matches which, if we keep that up, will see us finish on 55 points. Last season we finished on 62 points. So we are a little bit off the pace from last season. It's far from unrecoverable of course. So you think points per game after just 6 matches is a better indicator? Most teams end up in roughly the same area of the table each year. If after 6 games this season you have played 6 teams likely to be fighting for promotion is it fair to compare your standing to last season when you played 6 teams likely to end up nearer relegation?(Not saying that is what happened, but after such a few number of matches it is likely that some teams have played 6 more difficult matches and others have played 6 weaker teams) I will admit that as happened last year an early 4-1defeat to Huddersfield who the previous season had been in the playoff final didn't look too bad but ended up being a poor result. At the moment though I don't think any of our results scream disaster. If you went through the teams before you knew the fixture list I don't think any but the brightest optimist would have expected more points than we've got from those 6 matches. In fact most would have not given us three points v Watford but probably a point v Preston (although our record against them is abysmal - 5 defeats and I draw at home since we were relegated I think. Some who take little interest in what is happening to teams outside SoT might have put us down for 3 points against Ipswich but that would have been a blinkered view. Basically I think what I am saying is that after 6 matches it is ridiculous to say as the thread title claims, we are worse than last year. Until you have played roughly 15 games will the fixture have evened out and the table be settling down to what you can expect roughly at the end of the season and then points per game becomes more useful a way of comparing this season to last but even then there are 6 stronger teams in the division this season than last. Certainly in terms of entertainment at home (I don't go to away matches like about 18000 other fans, so can't comment) there has been a big improvement this year. Yeah, I get that it is interesting to make like-for-like comparisons year-on-year with the same opposition and we all do it! But if you take that argument to its extreme it could look like this... So last season we lost an eye-watering 21 matches. Say by some miracle the fixtures computer threw up those 21 matches as our first 21 fixtures this season? Well it couldn't do that because some of the clubs we lost to were either promoted or relegated. But let's say it served up 16 fixtures as our first 16 fixtures against opponents we lost to last season. If we were then to lose 15 of those matches and draw just 1 by your argument we would be tracking better than the previous season! When clearly in fact we would be heading for relegation with the fewest points in history!
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Post by benjaminbiscuit on Sept 18, 2023 8:06:21 GMT
You don't compare your form across 2 different seasons by trying to match the corresponding results against the same teams from the previous season. It's a nonsense. We have 6 points from 5 matches which, if we keep that up, will see us finish on 55 points. Last season we finished on 62 points. So we are a little bit off the pace from last season. It's far from unrecoverable of course. Don’t you I’ve always done it. I’d bet you a pound to a pinch of shit it’s a far more reliable indicator than whatever gameweek you happen to be on. Personally i prefer regression analysis and at 55 points as you point out and a downward trajectory in the last we will be absolutely in League come next August without material change or improvement or one being the catalyst for the other . Right now our trajectory puts us unequivocally in the bottom three
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Post by baconburger on Sept 18, 2023 11:22:14 GMT
So you think points per game after just 6 matches is a better indicator? Most teams end up in roughly the same area of the table each year. If after 6 games this season you have played 6 teams likely to be fighting for promotion is it fair to compare your standing to last season when you played 6 teams likely to end up nearer relegation?(Not saying that is what happened, but after such a few number of matches it is likely that some teams have played 6 more difficult matches and others have played 6 weaker teams) I will admit that as happened last year an early 4-1defeat to Huddersfield who the previous season had been in the playoff final didn't look too bad but ended up being a poor result. At the moment though I don't think any of our results scream disaster. If you went through the teams before you knew the fixture list I don't think any but the brightest optimist would have expected more points than we've got from those 6 matches. In fact most would have not given us three points v Watford but probably a point v Preston (although our record against them is abysmal - 5 defeats and I draw at home since we were relegated I think. Some who take little interest in what is happening to teams outside SoT might have put us down for 3 points against Ipswich but that would have been a blinkered view. Basically I think what I am saying is that after 6 matches it is ridiculous to say as the thread title claims, we are worse than last year. Until you have played roughly 15 games will the fixture have evened out and the table be settling down to what you can expect roughly at the end of the season and then points per game becomes more useful a way of comparing this season to last but even then there are 6 stronger teams in the division this season than last. Certainly in terms of entertainment at home (I don't go to away matches like about 18000 other fans, so can't comment) there has been a big improvement this year. Yeah, I get that it is interesting to make like-for-like comparisons year-on-year with the same opposition and we all do it! But if you take that argument to its extreme it could look like this... So last season we lost an eye-watering 21 matches. Say by some miracle the fixtures computer threw up those 21 matches as our first 21 fixtures this season? Well it couldn't do that because some of the clubs we lost to were either promoted or relegated. But let's say it served up 16 fixtures as our first 16 fixtures against opponents we lost to last season. If we were then to lose 15 of those matches and draw just 1 by your argument we would be tracking better than the previous season! When clearly in fact we would be heading for relegation with the fewest points in history! We've lost 4 fixtures 3 of which we rarely get anything from not just last season but in our recent championship history, the other of which we haven't been in the same league as in recent years. You can extrapolate that to prove your doom theory to kingdom come you're clearly only further depressing yourself and other wrist slashers. Most rational observers whilst tempering their hopes for the season would come to the conclusion that everything is still possible and relegation with the fewest points in history is about as likely as automatic promotion by Christmas.
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Post by tacoappreciator on Sept 18, 2023 12:43:24 GMT
Yeah, I get that it is interesting to make like-for-like comparisons year-on-year with the same opposition and we all do it! But if you take that argument to its extreme it could look like this... So last season we lost an eye-watering 21 matches. Say by some miracle the fixtures computer threw up those 21 matches as our first 21 fixtures this season? Well it couldn't do that because some of the clubs we lost to were either promoted or relegated. But let's say it served up 16 fixtures as our first 16 fixtures against opponents we lost to last season. If we were then to lose 15 of those matches and draw just 1 by your argument we would be tracking better than the previous season! When clearly in fact we would be heading for relegation with the fewest points in history! We've lost 4 fixtures 3 of which we rarely get anything from not just last season but in our recent championship history, the other of which we haven't been in the same league as in recent years. You can extrapolate that to prove your doom theory to kingdom come you're clearly only further depressing yourself and other wrist slashers. Most rational observers whilst tempering their hopes for the season would come to the conclusion that everything is still possible and relegation with the fewest points in history is about as likely as automatic promotion by Christmas. Finally, a sensible take
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Post by wakefieldstokie on Sept 18, 2023 12:57:16 GMT
My god it gets worse on here. So much overreaction, hysteria, dooms day scenarios.
Yes we might turn out to be shite, but guess what we might turn out to be ok, or god forbid we might even be better than expected!
6 games folks, 6 games.
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Post by jesusmcmuffin on Sept 18, 2023 13:06:00 GMT
My god it gets worse on here. So much overreaction, hysteria, dooms day scenarios. Yes we might turn out to be shite, but guess what we might turn out to be ok, or god forbid we might even be better than expected! 6 games folks, 6 games. 46 games
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Post by wakefieldstokie on Sept 18, 2023 13:15:28 GMT
My god it gets worse on here. So much overreaction, hysteria, dooms day scenarios. Yes we might turn out to be shite, but guess what we might turn out to be ok, or god forbid we might even be better than expected! 6 games folks, 6 games. 46 games Whats your point, do teams get extra points from previous seasons? We all knew the squad was going to be overhauled in the summer. You can't write off a season after 6 games. Even if you do try to include last season
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Post by jesusmcmuffin on Sept 18, 2023 13:17:55 GMT
Whats your point, do teams get extra points from previous seasons? We all knew the squad was going to be overhauled in the summer. You can't write off a season after 6 games. Even if you do try to include last season A very simple point. He's been here that long and it's not getting any better even if you try to sweep an entire season under the carpet as if it didn't happen.
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Post by baconburger on Sept 18, 2023 13:22:11 GMT
Whats your point, do teams get extra points from previous seasons? We all knew the squad was going to be overhauled in the summer. You can't write off a season after 6 games. Even if you do try to include last season A very simple point. He's been here that long and it's not getting any better even if you try to sweep an entire season under the carpet as if it didn't happen. We've been utter dogshit for 6 seasons, the only occasions where managers haven't been given much time has been when we were staring down the barrel (Jones) and a bloke who talked himself out of a job (Rowett). Unless either of those things happen expect him to get the rest of this season and probably next.
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Post by Pirate on Sept 18, 2023 13:25:40 GMT
We got what the most of us wanted this summer, a huge clear out, a massive reset, a change in recruitment ethos & some exciting signings.
All that is required of the fan base is a bit of bottle, nerve, patience & support.
Hopefully the staff at the club have more spine & patience than the majority on here.
Not saying everything is rosie or i wouldn't have hoped for us to be flying from the off but that was never realistic given the circumstances was it. Neither was getting all the players we needed in one window.
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Post by wakefieldstokie on Sept 18, 2023 14:00:17 GMT
Whats your point, do teams get extra points from previous seasons? We all knew the squad was going to be overhauled in the summer. You can't write off a season after 6 games. Even if you do try to include last season A very simple point. He's been here that long and it's not getting any better even if you try to sweep an entire season under the carpet as if it didn't happen. 'He's been here that long' He's been here a year and had one summer transfer market FFS. We knew last season was 'development'at best, until he could get his players, yes we wanted better but shit happens. He has his players, he's played 6 games. judge on this season. I didn't like what happened last season but you just can't judge a season on 6 games.
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Post by wakefieldstokie on Sept 18, 2023 14:06:57 GMT
We got what the most of us wanted this summer, a huge clear out, a massive reset, a change in recruitment ethos & some exciting signings. All that is required of the fan base is a bit of bottle, nerve, patience & support. Hopefully the staff at the club have more spine & patience than the majority on here. Not saying everything is rosie or i wouldn't have hoped for us to be flying from the off but that was never realistic given the circumstances was it. Neither was getting all the players we needed in one window. Apparently not, some expect 18+ individuals to instantly hit the ground running. I truly dislike the 'instant' results nature of football these days. "It's been 5/10/15 games, its not working, get a new manager" that will do it!
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Post by cheadlepotter on Sept 18, 2023 14:26:23 GMT
Just so those of us who aren’t too pleased with the start we’ve made know, when does the ‘let the team gel’ period end?
But I guess by then the other teams will be even more gelled than us. And then there’s the injuries. And the bad luck. Any more excuses?
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