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Post by upthefud on Sept 13, 2023 10:47:11 GMT
Agreed it’s awful and has been for ages.
He can now play an excellent 89 minutes, make one misplaced pass or other minor mistake and he’s ridiculed on social media.
His only crime really is not being good enough in a Man Utd team that don’t play to his strengths.
Part of me thinks he should be taken out of the England firing line, but also he never really lets England down when he plays, and it’s not right that bullying forces him out.
It’s a really sad and pathetic situation and has been for years
Never thought I’d be here wishing a Man Utd player well but he deserves a break
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Post by Robo10 on Sept 13, 2023 10:51:10 GMT
I feel for him completely - the mocking and sarcastic Oles every time he got the ball was uncomfortable
You can see the effect of the constant abuse has gotten to him - he looked cumbersome controlling the ball, really slow to do anything with it and looked relieved to keep making 10 yard passes to Dunk and be rid of it. The own goal was unfortunate but he looks so stiff at the min - lack of game time and competitive football does that at any level
He has never let England down tbh, he seems a nice enough bloke, humble roots, but that big move and the price tag/expectations and other events (Greece etc) seem to have knocked him for 6
We know why he hasnt gone to West Ham - he is due about £4-5mill in bonuses from Man Utd, and wanted them before he left and they wouldnt do it - not sure many of us would for that sort of money - but he does need to go back to a mid level team, be the main man/leader, and get his confidence back
Gareth is at fault too putting him in the firing line and putting two fingers up (same with Phillips who I thought couldnt pass wind last night) - there are other cabs off the rank queueing up, and deserving of opportunity
Dunk was brilliant last night, him and Stones will/should be the pair with Tomori and Ghueui keeping them on their toes.
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Post by spitthedog on Sept 13, 2023 10:56:20 GMT
If Southgate did drop him, as advocated by some, I'm finding it hard to understand how that is going to boost his mental health? Then he really is a complete failure.
From a performance perspective, based on the fact that he hasn't really let England down, I don't quite see the logic in dropping him unless there are much better, obvious options available.
He might now be thinking that turning down WHU was a mistake.
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Post by cdf on Sept 13, 2023 10:57:45 GMT
This is a guy that's played in World Cup Quarter Final, World Cup Semi Final and A Euro's Final. Yet, you would not believe with all the shit he gets. England fans totally adore him
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Post by spitthedog on Sept 13, 2023 11:02:22 GMT
I feel for him completely - the mocking and sarcastic Oles every time he got the ball was uncomfortable You can see the effect of the constant abuse has gotten to him - he looked cumbersome controlling the ball, really slow to do anything with it and looked relieved to keep making 10 yard passes to Dunk and be rid of it. The own goal was unfortunate but he looks so stiff at the min - lack of game time and competitive football does that at any level He has never let England down tbh, he seems a nice enough bloke, humble roots, but that big move and the price tag/expectations and other events (Greece etc) seem to have knocked him for 6 We know why he hasnt gone to West Ham - he is due about £4-5mill in bonuses from Man Utd, and wanted them before he left and they wouldnt do it - not sure many of us would for that sort of money - but he does need to go back to a mid level team, be the main man/leader, and get his confidence back Gareth is at fault too putting him in the firing line and putting two fingers up (same with Phillips who I thought couldnt pass wind last night) - there are other cabs off the rank queueing up, and deserving of opportunity Dunk was brilliant last night, him and Stones will/should be the pair with Tomori and Ghueui keeping them on their toes. Funny, I was impressed with Phillips and not normally a big fan.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2023 11:05:12 GMT
This is a guy that's played in World Cup Quarter Final, World Cup Semi Final and A Euro's Final. Yet, you would not believe with all the shit he gets. England fans totally adore him I am an England fan and I don't adore him .He is too slow and stops us pushing up the pitch. Like ( the brilliant as a younger player ) jags at the very end of his career at the Stoke . Wants to drag the entire defense back and stop teams getting in behind us . It might be logical to him but the entire team should be 20 yards further up the pitch. Great header of the ball , once a great player ( so was jags ) . Now , past it. I don't want to see him abused on social media. I want to see him dropped because he is no longer up to speed
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Post by noustie on Sept 13, 2023 11:08:30 GMT
Man U keeping him like some sort of gimp is doing him no good. I don't think that's fair at all. Ten Hag has been blunt with him and told him he's not in his plans and he was offered a perfectly decent move to West Ham (probably/possibly his actual level) ... HE turned the move down. Of course that is his prerogative but I think some of the criticism he's getting now stems from that decision. His pride stopped him from making the move, essentially saying I'm better than you think I am, which he's very much entitled to do but then every time he makes a mistake, he gets vilified for believing that. I'm not defending the criticism but if he had moved to and had a good start to the season with West Ham, I do wonder if the criticism would have been as harsh. Nobody sees him play, except when he plays for England, so he himself has very much placed himself into a very limited spotlight to quieten the naysayers. Thought he wanted to fight for his place after losing captaincy so knocked back West Ham. Then later when it became obvious he was pissing in the wind wanted to move but United blocked a loan because Varane was injured plus West Ham no longer wanted to buy. It was one of the talking bounces on SSN who can talk for 15 minutes without saying anything pretending they've sources in the camp so easily could've all been bollocks.
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Post by GreaterGlasgowstokie on Sept 13, 2023 11:16:39 GMT
Frances second goal in the world cup was Maguires fault, he should have been marking better.
Not good enough
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Post by lordb on Sept 13, 2023 11:25:21 GMT
This is a guy that's played in World Cup Quarter Final, World Cup Semi Final and A Euro's Final. Yet, you would not believe with all the shit he gets. England fans totally adore him And played very well in all those games He was outstanding at the last World Cup
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Post by Paul Spencer on Sept 13, 2023 11:25:40 GMT
Don’t like the overwhelming abuse he gets either, has never let England down and for all I care he can score as many own goals as he wants for United. He’s been unlucky with some bits that have happened to him , own goals etc, but think he could have done much better with the one last night. One thing I don’t get however is his choice to stay at United. A season at West Ham to get his career back on track was exactly what the doctor ordered, at a club near enough perfect for him. One of the most bizarre decisions ever to turn it down. The West Ham move would no doubt have meant a significant drop in wages - at least £90k p/week less than he’s currently getting at United. His contract runs till the summer of ‘25, so from a financial pov I can see why he’d want to stick it out. One more injury to their defence, and he’ll be back in the side His salary was dropping from £190kpw to £120kpw and he had 2 years left on his contract and ManU offered him £6m upfront to cover the shortfall. He turned it down.
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Post by zommbee on Sept 13, 2023 11:52:59 GMT
No one deserves the level of abuse he's been receiving online, in the media and at games. However last nights own goal clearly shows he is not match fit and shouldn't be in the England team, if he was fully fit that cross would've been put out for a corner easily, he needed too much time on the ball when he had it and slowed down our play way too much.
The vast majority of the games he's played for England have been good, but he has made mistakes which have cost us too and they have been happening more frequently in the last 18 months or so, if he's not playing club football regularly then he needs to be left out of the squad.
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Post by redstriper on Sept 13, 2023 11:58:01 GMT
Maguire shouldn't be getting abuse over the England situation, he doesn't pick himself. If there's a problem it's Southgate, who, given he didn't get moved on after the debacle of the euro final, is clearly going nowhere, so we may as well get behind him even though his caution is irritating.
Southgate appears to favour keeping the spine of the team unchanged, and he's a lucky man - Pickford, Maguire, Rice, Bellingham, Kane - that's some spine. 3 out of those 5 are very possibly the best in the world in their position.
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Post by Roy Cropper on Sept 13, 2023 11:59:39 GMT
He shouldn't have played either game IMO - Southgate was rightly pissed off with the abuse but he stuck him right in the firing line. It was time for Dunk and especially Tomori to get a proper crack of the whip.
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Post by shakermaker on Sept 13, 2023 12:00:21 GMT
The West Ham move would no doubt have meant a significant drop in wages - at least £90k p/week less than he’s currently getting at United. His contract runs till the summer of ‘25, so from a financial pov I can see why he’d want to stick it out. One more injury to their defence, and he’ll be back in the side His salary was dropping from £190kpw to £120kpw and he had 2 years left on his contract and ManU offered him £6m upfront to cover the shortfall. He turned it down. Then he really does have a slab for a head. £120k p/wk for a 30 y/old in poor form, and an opportunity to make a fresh start in London without high expectations... I admire his confidence and delusion in equal measure.
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Post by jimmygscfc1234 on Sept 13, 2023 12:01:38 GMT
I abhor the scrutiny and abuse he's getting but purely on footballing ability at the moment he shouldn't be starting. He must be mentally shot poor bloke and it's going to affect him at every step and international football isn't the right place to find his mojo. Southgate needs to balance the needs of the team with what is best for Maguire.
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Post by march4 on Sept 13, 2023 12:08:27 GMT
The way he gets treated by journalists, fans and football pundits is appalling in my opinion. I don't think I've ever known a player to get targeted so much. Maybe I'm over exaggerating but from a footballing pov it nearly reminds you off how Caroline Flack was treated. It’s akin to bullying.
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Post by RF10 on Sept 13, 2023 12:19:10 GMT
I've always been a fan of Maguire as a footballer. His time at Hull and Leicester he was excellent. The high fee and captaincy at Man It's have done him more detriment that good.
He does need to move away from Man Utd and hopefully can go on for the better.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Sept 13, 2023 12:20:19 GMT
I feel for him completely - the mocking and sarcastic Oles every time he got the ball was uncomfortable You can see the effect of the constant abuse has gotten to him - he looked cumbersome controlling the ball, really slow to do anything with it and looked relieved to keep making 10 yard passes to Dunk and be rid of it. The own goal was unfortunate but he looks so stiff at the min - lack of game time and competitive football does that at any level He has never let England down tbh, he seems a nice enough bloke, humble roots, but that big move and the price tag/expectations and other events (Greece etc) seem to have knocked him for 6 We know why he hasnt gone to West Ham - he is due about £4-5mill in bonuses from Man Utd, and wanted them before he left and they wouldnt do it - not sure many of us would for that sort of money - but he does need to go back to a mid level team, be the main man/leader, and get his confidence back Gareth is at fault too putting him in the firing line and putting two fingers up (same with Phillips who I thought couldnt pass wind last night) - there are other cabs off the rank queueing up, and deserving of opportunity Dunk was brilliant last night, him and Stones will/should be the pair with Tomori and Ghueui keeping them on their toes. As an opposition fan though isn't part of the remit to that first bit? You take the piss out of them and you try to get in their head so they play badly against you? When did that become a crime in football?
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Post by mattythestokie on Sept 13, 2023 12:27:14 GMT
I feel for him completely - the mocking and sarcastic Oles every time he got the ball was uncomfortable You can see the effect of the constant abuse has gotten to him - he looked cumbersome controlling the ball, really slow to do anything with it and looked relieved to keep making 10 yard passes to Dunk and be rid of it. The own goal was unfortunate but he looks so stiff at the min - lack of game time and competitive football does that at any level He has never let England down tbh, he seems a nice enough bloke, humble roots, but that big move and the price tag/expectations and other events (Greece etc) seem to have knocked him for 6 We know why he hasnt gone to West Ham - he is due about £4-5mill in bonuses from Man Utd, and wanted them before he left and they wouldnt do it - not sure many of us would for that sort of money - but he does need to go back to a mid level team, be the main man/leader, and get his confidence back Gareth is at fault too putting him in the firing line and putting two fingers up (same with Phillips who I thought couldnt pass wind last night) - there are other cabs off the rank queueing up, and deserving of opportunity Dunk was brilliant last night, him and Stones will/should be the pair with Tomori and Ghueui keeping them on their toes. As an opposition fan though isn't part of the remit to that first bit? You take the piss out of them and you try to get in their head so they play badly against you? When did that become a crime in football? I don’t see an issue at all with what they were doing last night. Just seemed like classic football fan stuff really. Didn’t the oatcake once have a thread designed to pick a random player from the opposition to boo and howl at to create a bit of atmosphere? I remember it well.
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Post by werrington on Sept 13, 2023 12:29:50 GMT
I feel for him completely - the mocking and sarcastic Oles every time he got the ball was uncomfortable You can see the effect of the constant abuse has gotten to him - he looked cumbersome controlling the ball, really slow to do anything with it and looked relieved to keep making 10 yard passes to Dunk and be rid of it. The own goal was unfortunate but he looks so stiff at the min - lack of game time and competitive football does that at any level He has never let England down tbh, he seems a nice enough bloke, humble roots, but that big move and the price tag/expectations and other events (Greece etc) seem to have knocked him for 6 We know why he hasnt gone to West Ham - he is due about £4-5mill in bonuses from Man Utd, and wanted them before he left and they wouldnt do it - not sure many of us would for that sort of money - but he does need to go back to a mid level team, be the main man/leader, and get his confidence back Gareth is at fault too putting him in the firing line and putting two fingers up (same with Phillips who I thought couldnt pass wind last night) - there are other cabs off the rank queueing up, and deserving of opportunity Dunk was brilliant last night, him and Stones will/should be the pair with Tomori and Ghueui keeping them on their toes. As an opposition fan though isn't part of the remit to that first bit? You take the piss out of them and you try to get in their head so they play badly against you? When did that become a crime in football? Gareth Southgate himself said he’d got no problem with opposition fans doing it as it’s part of the game It’s the England fans and social media stuff he has a big issue with
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Post by bayernoatcake on Sept 13, 2023 12:30:21 GMT
As an opposition fan though isn't part of the remit to that first bit? You take the piss out of them and you try to get in their head so they play badly against you? When did that become a crime in football? I don’t see an issue at all with what they were doing last night. Just seemed like classic football fan stuff really. Didn’t the oatcake once have a thread designed to pick a random player from the opposition to boo and howl at to create a bit of atmosphere? I remember it well. 🤣it did! It’s been going on at most games down the land since forever. I guess everyone who shouts wanker at an opposition corner taker is a disgrace now or something. The social media as long as it’s not aimed at Maguire I don’t have much of an issue with either. He can avoid that easily. And the scrutiny comes with playing for one of the biggest clubs and nations in world football. None of it unique to him.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Sept 13, 2023 12:32:30 GMT
As an opposition fan though isn't part of the remit to that first bit? You take the piss out of them and you try to get in their head so they play badly against you? When did that become a crime in football? Gareth Southgate himself said he’d got no problem with opposition fans doing it as it’s part of the game It’s the England fans and social media stuff he has a big issue with England fans pay their money and can choose what they want to do. They have every right to boo and mock. The social media stuff, if it isn’t aimed at him then I don’t get the issue? I’d never tweet our players directly that I think they’re shit because I don’t think that’s right but I will happily say it. If they see that then it’s on them. Geoff Cameron for instance would clearly search his own name on Twitter. Which is something I really really don’t get.
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Post by werrington on Sept 13, 2023 12:33:37 GMT
Gareth Southgate himself said he’d got no problem with opposition fans doing it as it’s part of the game It’s the England fans and social media stuff he has a big issue with England fans pay their money and can choose what they want to do. They have every right to boo and mock. The social media stuff, if it isn’t aimed at him then I don’t get the issue? I’d never tweet our players directly that I think they’re shit because I don’t think that’s right but I will happily say it. If they see that then it’s on them. Geoff Cameron for instance would clearly search his own name on Twitter. Which is something I really really don’t get. I really can’t believe you are that naive It’s actually embarrassing reading that
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Post by gawa on Sept 13, 2023 12:35:44 GMT
As an opposition fan though isn't part of the remit to that first bit? You take the piss out of them and you try to get in their head so they play badly against you? When did that become a crime in football? I don’t see an issue at all with what they were doing last night. Just seemed like classic football fan stuff really. Didn’t the oatcake once have a thread designed to pick a random player from the opposition to boo and howl at to create a bit of atmosphere? I remember it well. A thread on the oatcake is highly unlikely to be read by the player or their friends/families though. There's nothing wrong with giving a bit of stick to an opposition player. But with Harry Maguire it's not been a bit of stick, it's been constant non stop abuse every weekend for the last 3 years. And it's not just opposition fans either, it's everyone. Kurt Zouma was kicking a cat around his kitchen and got a bit of abuse for a fortnight before it moved on. There has to come a stage where people remember that he's still a human being and that it's getting out of hand. Nowadays it just feels like a popular social media trend that people just jump on the back off. If Harry Maguire is on the pitch and a team concedes or doesn't do as well, you can sure bet fans and pundits a like will find some sort of way to hold Harry accountable. I've alot of respect for Gareth Southgate for sticking up for him a bit. Man United however haven't really supported him all that well in my opinion, especially their past pros on TV too who contribute to the problem.
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Post by stokiedan17 on Sept 13, 2023 12:40:27 GMT
Gareth Southgate himself said he’d got no problem with opposition fans doing it as it’s part of the game It’s the England fans and social media stuff he has a big issue with England fans pay their money and can choose what they want to do. They have every right to boo and mock. The social media stuff, if it isn’t aimed at him then I don’t get the issue? I’d never tweet our players directly that I think they’re shit because I don’t think that’s right but I will happily say it. If they see that then it’s on them. Geoff Cameron for instance would clearly search his own name on Twitter. Which is something I really really don’t get. Doesn’t help when your name is one of the highest trending things on social media. Also quite a lot of social media trolls will @ players on most posts so it’s not even a case of having to search your own name when it’s literally shoved in your face on most social media platforms and your national sporting news….
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Post by Robo10 on Sept 13, 2023 12:40:40 GMT
I feel for him completely - the mocking and sarcastic Oles every time he got the ball was uncomfortable You can see the effect of the constant abuse has gotten to him - he looked cumbersome controlling the ball, really slow to do anything with it and looked relieved to keep making 10 yard passes to Dunk and be rid of it. The own goal was unfortunate but he looks so stiff at the min - lack of game time and competitive football does that at any level He has never let England down tbh, he seems a nice enough bloke, humble roots, but that big move and the price tag/expectations and other events (Greece etc) seem to have knocked him for 6 We know why he hasnt gone to West Ham - he is due about £4-5mill in bonuses from Man Utd, and wanted them before he left and they wouldnt do it - not sure many of us would for that sort of money - but he does need to go back to a mid level team, be the main man/leader, and get his confidence back Gareth is at fault too putting him in the firing line and putting two fingers up (same with Phillips who I thought couldnt pass wind last night) - there are other cabs off the rank queueing up, and deserving of opportunity Dunk was brilliant last night, him and Stones will/should be the pair with Tomori and Ghueui keeping them on their toes. As an opposition fan though isn't part of the remit to that first bit? You take the piss out of them and you try to get in their head so they play badly against you? When did that become a crime in football? I've no issue at all with fans picking at and baiting the opposition - we all do it joyfully whether Denis Wise, Arsene Wenger, John Terry etc I was just saying that it was uncomfortable to watch on TV last night as it had obviously got to him, looked petrified - I blame Gareth for that tbh! Who mentioned it being a crime? Was that in your own fantasy head? Your own fans doing it, whether you have paid your money or not (or are just a sheep) doesnt sit well - grumbling that somebody is shit is one thing, the deep sigh when one of your own makes another mistake (see Butland, Johnson, Diouf etc) but I dont remember anybody in the home ends sarcastically cheering when they made a good pass or did something well. Social media is a cesspit at the best of times anyway, why anybody famous embraces it (bar for clicks and likes) is beyond me - its full of dickheads. (probs including me)
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Post by bayernoatcake on Sept 13, 2023 12:42:03 GMT
England fans pay their money and can choose what they want to do. They have every right to boo and mock. The social media stuff, if it isn’t aimed at him then I don’t get the issue? I’d never tweet our players directly that I think they’re shit because I don’t think that’s right but I will happily say it. If they see that then it’s on them. Geoff Cameron for instance would clearly search his own name on Twitter. Which is something I really really don’t get. I really can’t believe you are that naive It’s actually embarrassing reading that It's easy to avoid if you want to.
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Post by werrington on Sept 13, 2023 12:42:47 GMT
I really can’t believe you are that naive It’s actually embarrassing reading that It's easy to avoid if you want to. You worry me …..seriously
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Post by bayernoatcake on Sept 13, 2023 12:45:16 GMT
England fans pay their money and can choose what they want to do. They have every right to boo and mock. The social media stuff, if it isn’t aimed at him then I don’t get the issue? I’d never tweet our players directly that I think they’re shit because I don’t think that’s right but I will happily say it. If they see that then it’s on them. Geoff Cameron for instance would clearly search his own name on Twitter. Which is something I really really don’t get. Doesn’t help when your name is one of the highest trending things on social media. Also quite a lot of social media trolls will @ players on most posts so it’s not even a case of having to search your own name when it’s literally shoved in your face on most social media platforms and your national sporting news…. It isn't but then I don't get why any footballer would be on social media. It makes no sense. The @ ing I don't agree with and don't do but calling a player fucking wank or whatever on twitter is imo fine.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Sept 13, 2023 12:46:04 GMT
It's easy to avoid if you want to. You worry me …..seriously I don't get why any player would be on social media to see it tbh.
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