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Post by nsd on Aug 26, 2023 10:34:58 GMT
I don't know what feminist circles you run in but there absolutely is outrage about these regimes. Where? i can find plenty of articles of articles asking why western feminists are keeping shtum but none that are expressing organised outrage. Their maybe groups in the said countries, but none going out of their way here to back them up. They wern't outraged about the treatment of young girls here were they. social media mostly, which as a concept has its ills but is one of the most powerful tools that can be equipped for things like this. footage and posts from those living under those regimes spread on social media, real people saying 'this is what is happening in my country, spread this information and make the world aware'. that's exactly what happens. just because you haven't seen it doesn't mean that it isn't happening. feminists as a whole (which is saying something because there's a lot of division even in feminism) have been making the world aware of this since day 1, in real time, as it's happening.
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Post by stokief on Aug 26, 2023 10:37:43 GMT
Or maybe you can just accept that a woman's perspective on this issue is more informed and valid. You don't speak for every woman though! I never said that I did
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Post by devondumpling on Aug 26, 2023 10:38:39 GMT
Can't they refer this to VAR?
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Post by dirtygary69 on Aug 26, 2023 10:38:39 GMT
I know it’d be a boring world if everyone agreed but I fail to see how anybody thinks he has any sort of defence, or why they’d even want to defend it! The fact that he and the Spanish FA now want to turn it round 180 and blame her, shows the sort of people you’re sticking up for!
I’m not even sure the “heat of the moment” makes sense - he did it about 20/30 mins after during the presentation where he’d had plenty of time to calm down. If the only way he can display his emotion is in that way, then he needs to seek help. Coupled with his crotch grab, it also makes you wonder what other behaviours he thinks are acceptable.
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Post by iglugluk on Aug 26, 2023 10:38:51 GMT
Interesting username. A misogynistic comedy that fuels the behaviour you're talking about. And I was saying bliss in relation to the way I deal with women treating me in a way that a lot of people would consider a sexual assault. The wolf whistling bollocks is childish and can be harassing, but whenever I've spoken to actual women about this without getting offended for them or telling them that they should feel offended it's very down the middle. You might think that you can say that all women are offended by it, but try talking to some, you'll be surprised they have their own individual opinions. Some women love it, some like it, some don't care, some dislike it and some hate it. In relation to this Spanish scandal/women's football I happen to work with a talented female footballer. On Monday the first thing she'll say to me is "have you seen that bollocks?" Before continuing to rip the piss out of me all day about a variety of topics. We're happy. Speaking of being happy anchorman why don't you stick it on and laugh at the humour “I’m a man who discovered the wheel and built the Eiffel Tower out of metal and brawn. That’s what kind of man I am. You’re just a woman with a small brain. With a brain a third the size of us. It’s science.” I'm sure Trump and the Spanish football president love that film. Isn’t the whole point of the film to laugh at misogynist dinosaurs who can’t accept that times have changed? Said woman runs rings around the men throughout the film. The ‘overcome by emotion’ stuff is nonsense, he’s a grown man and should be able to control himself. Absolutely right.. reminds me of a comment on The Nutty Professor that someone made to me recently. Apparently they couldn't watch it because it was 'fatist' and they found the portrayal of the 2 main Eddie Murphy characters representative of this. The woman who said this failed to see that the actual point of the film was to highlight the fact that Klump was actually decent and true, whilst Buddy Love was in fact the undesirable character.. in other words don't judge people by appearance. The Farrelly Brothers are fine examples of this kind of humour juxtaposing and in many ways have led to a world where preconceptions are challenged via such humour. Satire is dead.. for some people it seems. There's certainly a kind of new age puritanism occurring and it's not healthy.
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Post by noustie on Aug 26, 2023 10:40:46 GMT
Where? i can find plenty of articles of articles asking why western feminists are keeping shtum but none that are expressing organised outrage. Their maybe groups in the said countries, but none going out of their way here to back them up. They wern't outraged about the treatment of young girls here were they. social media mostly, which as a concept has its ills but is one of the most powerful tools that can be equipped for things like this. footage and posts from those living under those regimes spread on social media, real people saying 'this is what is happening in my country, spread this information and make the world aware'. that's exactly what happens. just because you haven't seen it doesn't mean that it isn't happening. feminists as a whole (which is saying something because there's a lot of division even in feminism) have been making the world aware of this since day 1, in real time, as it's happening. You'd imagine Benzina for Morocco playing in a hijab is going to be a massive influence and spread via social media
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2023 10:41:22 GMT
Can't they refer this to VAR? They already did. Apparently he scored an own goal.
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Post by tommycarlsberg on Aug 26, 2023 10:44:23 GMT
I'm sorry but I have to majorly disagree. Forcing a kiss on the lips of someone is a totally unacceptable. It's supposedly 'small and meaningless' actions like this that sometimes lead to far more serious acts like rape and violence later (I'm not meaning these two people but generally)Plus his crotch grabbing gives an indication of what sort of individual he is. It shouldn't be brushed aside as 'in the moment', 'carried away with emotion'. I'm sure those phrases have been used many times by people who are wishing to excuse their behaviour where consent is at the root. What sort of an example does it set? To actually try to turn this on to the player is astounding. I agree with you that in many ways the world has gone mad but from what I can see this is not and example of it I'm afraid. No, make it as big as possible! Ffs, women in Iran are being shot at for not covering their hair! I think keeping focus on all such small things take the focus away from things that really matters! It all matters, why can’t you grasp that? Normalising grabbing a woman and kissing her fuels wider atrocities to women.
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Post by noustie on Aug 26, 2023 10:44:40 GMT
Can't they refer this to VAR? Checking: Possible Tongue Decision: Penalty Liverpool
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Post by foster on Aug 26, 2023 10:45:12 GMT
I know it’d be a boring world if everyone agreed but I fail to see how anybody thinks he has any sort of defence, or why they’d even want to defend it! The fact that he and the Spanish FA now want to turn it round 180 and blame her, shows the sort of people you’re sticking up for! I’m not even sure the “heat of the moment” makes sense - he did it about 20/30 mins after during the presentation where he’d had plenty of time to calm down. If the only way he can display his emotion is in that way, then he needs to seek help. Coupled with his crotch grab, it also makes you wonder what other behaviours he thinks are acceptable. The thing is that no one has said that it's acceptable. That's the black or white, with us or against us mentality that people unable to comprehend others opinions on here tend to make. The main discussion point around this is what the 'appropriate' punishment should be, based on the circumstances. The problem is you have people on here with extreme views who label anyone who doesn't agree with them entirely as sympathisers or even worse, supporters of the person under scrutiny. Which just isn't the case at all. I agree that the crotch grab thing is just wierd.
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Post by spitthedog on Aug 26, 2023 10:47:28 GMT
The response by the Spanish FA calling the player a liar means they should all be forced out. It's really unacceptable.
I would really hope other international teams will refuse to participate in games v Spain on the basis of this.
I'm sure they will get a game v Saudi Arabia though.
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Post by spitthedog on Aug 26, 2023 10:48:44 GMT
I know it’d be a boring world if everyone agreed but I fail to see how anybody thinks he has any sort of defence, or why they’d even want to defend it! The fact that he and the Spanish FA now want to turn it round 180 and blame her, shows the sort of people you’re sticking up for! I’m not even sure the “heat of the moment” makes sense - he did it about 20/30 mins after during the presentation where he’d had plenty of time to calm down. If the only way he can display his emotion is in that way, then he needs to seek help. Coupled with his crotch grab, it also makes you wonder what other behaviours he thinks are acceptable. The thing is that no one has said that it's acceptable. That's the black or white, with us or against us mentality that people unable to comprehend others opinions on here tend to make. The main discussion point around this is what the 'appropriate' punishment should be, based on the circumstances. The problem is you have people on here with extreme views who label anyone who doesn't agree with them entirely as sympathisers or even worse, supporters of the person under scrutiny. Which just isn't the case at all. I agree that the crotch grab thing is just wierd. My feeling has changed given the response from the Spanish FA which really is extreme and quite shocking.
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Post by foster on Aug 26, 2023 10:51:58 GMT
The thing is that no one has said that it's acceptable. That's the black or white, with us or against us mentality that people unable to comprehend others opinions on here tend to make. The main discussion point around this is what the 'appropriate' punishment should be, based on the circumstances. The problem is you have people on here with extreme views who label anyone who doesn't agree with them entirely as sympathisers or even worse, supporters of the person under scrutiny. Which just isn't the case at all. I agree that the crotch grab thing is just wierd. My feeling has changed given the response from the Spanish FA which really is extreme. It's distasteful I agree. A media circus for what could have been dealt with internally and swiftly.
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Post by stokiejoe89 on Aug 26, 2023 10:52:27 GMT
I want to say i'm shocked that there's a small handful of people on here that think what he did wasn't too bad or this has been blown out of proportion..but i'm not shocked at all. This board has some right cavemen on it.
I hope the spanish guy loses his job and more. You just don't do what he did and get away with it.
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Post by spitthedog on Aug 26, 2023 10:55:02 GMT
My feeling has changed given the response from the Spanish FA which really is extreme. It's distasteful I agree. A media circus for what could have been dealt with internally and swiftly. Yes, definitely. They had plenty of opportunities here. But it also shows their total disrespect for the woman. I find it quite sinister.
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Post by st3mark on Aug 26, 2023 10:55:20 GMT
It was celebrated as one of the most beautiful moments in human history. A fascinating and powerful example of how photography is used as propaganda but that is it. Yes. And we are witnessing propaganda in this instance also.
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Post by st3mark on Aug 26, 2023 10:57:12 GMT
Interesting username. A misogynistic comedy that fuels the behaviour you're talking about. And I was saying bliss in relation to the way I deal with women treating me in a way that a lot of people would consider a sexual assault. The wolf whistling bollocks is childish and can be harassing, but whenever I've spoken to actual women about this without getting offended for them or telling them that they should feel offended it's very down the middle. You might think that you can say that all women are offended by it, but try talking to some, you'll be surprised they have their own individual opinions. Some women love it, some like it, some don't care, some dislike it and some hate it. In relation to this Spanish scandal/women's football I happen to work with a talented female footballer. On Monday the first thing she'll say to me is "have you seen that bollocks?" Before continuing to rip the piss out of me all day about a variety of topics. We're happy. Speaking of being happy anchorman why don't you stick it on and laugh at the humour “I’m a man who discovered the wheel and built the Eiffel Tower out of metal and brawn. That’s what kind of man I am. You’re just a woman with a small brain. With a brain a third the size of us. It’s science.” I'm sure Trump and the Spanish football president love that film. Isn’t the whole point of the film to laugh at misogynist dinosaurs who can’t accept that times have changed? Said woman runs rings around the men throughout the film. The ‘overcome by emotion’ stuff is nonsense, he’s a grown man and should be able to control himself. If that's the point of the film then it's failed because all it achieved was years of idiots using those quotes towards women across the western world.
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Post by Widget123 on Aug 26, 2023 11:03:46 GMT
The incredible lack of a actual PR process in this is staggering. Whoever (if anyone!) Is advising the Spanish FA needs sacking for allowing this to happen as it has.
The metrics are the same as the Gerald Ratner fiasco years ago from a PR perspective!
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Post by AlliG on Aug 26, 2023 11:11:48 GMT
I think the reaction to this kiss is way over the top really! OK, he shouldn't have done it, but was very happy and let his feelings take command, but ffs he didn't rape her or being violent in any way. I think a simple sorry should have been enough here. In my opinion the world has gone mad about small things that are being bigged up so much that it's unreal! Did he even try the immediate apology? It seems to me (and I admit I have to rely on the English translations) that he never tried to apologise but just doubled down, tried to brazen it out and even blame the player. At some point you have to stop digging, but in this case the Spanish FA seem to have given him a JCB to dig a bit deeper and faster.
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Post by werrington on Aug 26, 2023 11:13:19 GMT
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Post by noustie on Aug 26, 2023 11:13:26 GMT
The incredible lack of a actual PR process in this is staggering. Whoever (if anyone!) Is advising the Spanish FA needs sacking for allowing this to happen as it has. The metrics are the same as the Gerald Ratner fiasco years ago from a PR perspective! They've just won the Women's World Cup and are totally and utterly fucking it up. The current bloke's team and/or legends need to step up pronto.
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Post by Gabrielzakuaniandjuliet on Aug 26, 2023 11:13:38 GMT
This is the whole 'believe all women' angle, which isn't exactly bulletproof eg Amber Heard. Haven't seen footage for this one though so can't comment!
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Aug 26, 2023 11:15:17 GMT
Isn’t the whole point of the film to laugh at misogynist dinosaurs who can’t accept that times have changed? Said woman runs rings around the men throughout the film. The ‘overcome by emotion’ stuff is nonsense, he’s a grown man and should be able to control himself. If that's the point of the film then it's failed because all it achieved was years of idiots using those quotes towards women across the western world. Or maybe it’s just you? You’ll always get people misinterpreting even the most basic satire, as Alf Garnett shows.
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Post by robwahlmann on Aug 26, 2023 11:21:42 GMT
You don't speak for every woman though! I never said that I did Why put it like that then!?
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Post by foster on Aug 26, 2023 11:29:44 GMT
If that's the point of the film then it's failed because all it achieved was years of idiots using those quotes towards women across the western world. Or maybe it’s just you? You’ll always get people misinterpreting even the most basic satire, as Alf Garnett shows.
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Post by robwahlmann on Aug 26, 2023 11:31:33 GMT
I think the reaction to this kiss is way over the top really! OK, he shouldn't have done it, but was very happy and let his feelings take command, but ffs he didn't rape her or being violent in any way. I think a simple sorry should have been enough here. In my opinion the world has gone mad about small things that are being bigged up so much that it's unreal! Did he even try the immediate apology? It seems to me (and I admit I have to rely on the English translations) that he never tried to apologise but just doubled down, tried to brazen it out and even blame the player. At some point you have to stop digging, but in this case the Spanish FA seem to have given him a JCB to dig a bit deeper and faster. Still a lot of turmoil for a kiss in my opinion! Wrong, yes, but my God how many newspaper pages does this deserve!?
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Post by rowbeartoe on Aug 26, 2023 11:35:13 GMT
This is the whole 'believe all women' angle, which isn't exactly bulletproof eg Amber Heard. Haven't seen footage for this one though so can't comment! Why the fuck would you comment something so stupid when you've not even seen what we're all talking about?
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Post by robwahlmann on Aug 26, 2023 11:35:37 GMT
No, make it as big as possible! Ffs, women in Iran are being shot at for not covering their hair! I think keeping focus on all such small things take the focus away from things that really matters! It all matters, why can’t you grasp that? Normalising grabbing a woman and kissing her fuels wider atrocities to women. Yes, I understand! This is so important that we need to fill nespaper page after page with it! I guess it will even be more important than the Ukranian war very soon! This has gone completely out of proportions no matter what you think of it. That is MY OPINION!
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Post by OldStokie on Aug 26, 2023 11:38:00 GMT
The man is an idiot. If any man by now hasn't learned to keep all non-related women at arm's length then they need to look at the world through different lenses. We're living in a different world where women are demanding their own space because there has been so much of the opposite for many years. An enthusiastic shake of the hands and a continental kiss on the cheek is all that's allowed. As for him grabbing his crotch... what the hell was that all about? It's such a shame that this has happened after Spain women did so well to win their WC.
OS.
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Post by skip on Aug 26, 2023 11:38:53 GMT
A fascinating and powerful example of how photography is used as propaganda but that is it. Yes. And we are witnessing propaganda in this instance also. If you are referring to the photographs the Spanish FA are attempting to use to discredit the footballer, then yes I agree.
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