|
Post by prestwichpotter on Feb 13, 2023 9:30:53 GMT
MON continually dropped back to the use of wing backs in my opinion because of Josh Tymon. AN is replicating the same formation for a different reason as he wants a high press. With Gayle/ Brown and Campbell the ball needs to be played into open space so they can run onto to it, all 3 can’t play balls where they have to win Ariel battles or balls played into their feet in tight spaces. Which means 4/2/3/1 or 4/3/3. Is the only formations can best utilise our current squats. I hate to plaguerise previous threads but it is as plain as day. What I'm struggling with is that when Tymon came back from injury last time, AN had the tools to play any way he wanted to. He talked about a lack of real wingers but they're like rocking horse shit these days anyway most teams play with wide forwards in a 4-2-3-1 or a 4-3-3 so it made no sense to me at all.........
|
|
|
Post by nottsover60 on Feb 13, 2023 9:35:05 GMT
More than 5 games this season to judge. The reset was always going to be the summer of 2023 as far as I'm concerned so I would have been happy with mid-table this season but with signs of progress on the pitch to give me hope going into next season. You have to weigh up the risk of relegation (I don't think it was huge and still don't actually) against the benefits of bringing in a new manager with new ideas and compensation paid (in our case). For me we pulled the trigger too early. Fair enough. I don't agree (for me that awful run last season should have seen him handed his cards then and the summer's messy recruitment only reinforced that) but had always wondered quite why you were such a big fan of MON and what you saw that I didn't, and you've answered that eloquently, cheers. I agree with that but had I known we were bringing in Neil and that he would proceed to confirm all the misgivings I had about him I would prefer to have stuck with MON. We haven't improved in any way that I can see, we have muddied the waters further with another transfer window for another manager, sent back 4 players other clubs sent to us in the summer perhaps damaging their relationship with us and our reputation with any clubs looking to do a youth loan. The January window, apart from Pearson did not balance the squad, we are a striker option down and lost our best centre half. I feel sure MON would have persuaded Souttar to stay for the season. Looking at Okagbu warming up on Saturday I wondered why we had loaned an unfit, unproved centre half on loan when we had him. We have lost the player/manager relationship there was with Campbell and Powell both of whom could have saved our season for MON. The football, fitness and results have not improved. I would love to know in what way Neil is an improvement
|
|
|
Post by The Toxic Avenger on Feb 13, 2023 9:45:26 GMT
Fair enough. I don't agree (for me that awful run last season should have seen him handed his cards then and the summer's messy recruitment only reinforced that) but had always wondered quite why you were such a big fan of MON and what you saw that I didn't, and you've answered that eloquently, cheers. I agree with that but had I known we were bringing in Neil and that he would proceed to confirm all the misgivings I had about him I would prefer to have stuck with MON. We haven't improved in any way that I can see, we have muddied the waters further with another transfer window for another manager, sent back 4 players other clubs sent to us in the summer perhaps damaging their relationship with us and our reputation with any clubs looking to do a youth loan. The January window, apart from Pearson did not balance the squad, we are a striker option down and lost our best centre half. I feel sure MON would have persuaded Souttar to stay for the season. Looking at Okagbu warming up on Saturday I wondered why we had loaned an unfit, unproved centre half on loan when we had him. We have lost the player/manager relationship there was with Campbell and Powell both of whom could have saved our season for MON. The football, fitness and results have not improved. I would love to know in what way Neil is an improvement Definitely questions about setting on a completely different type of manager with different ideas after the season has started and after a busy transfer window, we just don't seem to learn there. I agree we haven't improved but I don't think we're worse either, which damns both managers. MON's recruitment over the summer just confirmed to me that he'd totally lost it and had no idea how he wanted to set up anymore or what would make that work. Don't agree that Tuanzebe is improved, huge question marks over his fitness but he's been a very good player at this level previously. Back injuries and whether players ever fully get over them is a concern, I agree. No chance MON would've convinced Souttar to stay, he'd have wanted the transfer funds as much as anyone in our situation and I can't think of a single reason why Souttar would want to stay. Not sure Campbell has been any worse under Neil than he was under late era MON but the Powell situation is a shame and a concern and any manager worth his salt should be able to find a role for him. I'm bitterly disappointed in Neil's tenure so far but the job he's done at previous clubs and the odd flash of what he's tried to do here have me hopeful that he will eventually improve us, though it'll likely be a painful process.
|
|
|
Post by bayernoatcake on Feb 13, 2023 9:48:27 GMT
We were on for 37 points with MoN’s record this season.
|
|
|
Post by prestwichpotter on Feb 13, 2023 9:53:11 GMT
We were on for 37 points with MoN’s record this season. Basing the seasons points total on 5 league games is pretty silly to be honest. AN's last 5 games have been identical (W1 D1 L3) so I guess we're already relegated.........
|
|
|
Post by shrewspotter on Feb 13, 2023 9:58:35 GMT
I hate these hypothetical questions
Rowett- Spent all the transfer kitty on utter rubbish, putting the club back years Jones- Talked like his was the 2nd coming of Christ, gave his tactics away before he started to the opposition so was easy to work out O'Neil- Bought in lots of players, consigned players to the bin after very little chance stuck with a losing formation Neil- Carrying on O'Neils ethos on 5-3-2
Answer is who knows but probably not, each deserved the sack when it came
None of them seems to learn from past mistakes though and John Cotes keeps allowing these same mistakes to happen
Perhaps it is time for a re-think with a head coach just in charge of coaching the team and a transfer team headed up by someone with equal powers to the head coach. I think that is a greater question that needs answering
|
|
|
Post by chigstoke on Feb 13, 2023 10:04:27 GMT
This is just a hypothetical that isn’t worth thinking about really. We sacked MON, got a new man in and we need to be concentrating on the here and now.
If we go down, are we going to get ‘Would MON have kept us up’? threads?
|
|
|
Post by st3mark on Feb 13, 2023 10:05:27 GMT
MON win ratio was 38.46% Neil's win ratio is 34.78% To find a higher win ratio that MON we have to go back to Gudjon. I think MON would have done better with this squad slightly. I'm hopeful that Neil will produce next season with his own squad. I had a lot of patience with MON because he has kept the club afloat and not spent a penny that he didn't generate from sales. And still managed to have the best win ratio for 20 years. Ultimately he had to go because it had become so boring that he had lost the fans. I was hoping for more from Neil results wise so far but he has promoted teams before so clearly knows what it takes. Sticking with him for now. The club needs some consistency so that someone can build something. This is all relative, though. Gudjon all in the third tier, MON in the second. The win ratios in the Prem are lower purely on the league we were playing in. I know I'd prefer a lower win ratio in a higher league and hope to build on it. Correct. The win ratio comparing MON and AN is providing to show that we likely would have been better off with MON. The mention of Gudjon is there really to show that he had a better win ratio at this level than cotteril, Pulis first reign, Boskamp, Rowett, Jones and Alex Neil. This list covers every championship manager we have ever had since Gudjon promoted us. Apart from of course TPs second reign at this level of which I imagine was definitely higher due to promotion.
|
|
|
Post by bayernoatcake on Feb 13, 2023 10:10:39 GMT
We were on for 37 points with MoN’s record this season. Basing the seasons points total on 5 league games is pretty silly to be honest. AN's last 5 games have been identical (W1 D1 L3) so I guess we're already relegated......... It’s a fact 😂😂😂😂😂
|
|
|
Post by dwr17477 on Feb 13, 2023 10:12:19 GMT
This is all relative, though. Gudjon all in the third tier, MON in the second. The win ratios in the Prem are lower purely on the league we were playing in. I know I'd prefer a lower win ratio in a higher league and hope to build on it. Correct. The win ratio comparing MON and AN is providing to show that we likely would have been better off with MON. The mention of Gudjon is there really to show that he had a better win ratio at this level than cotteril, Pulis first reign, Boskamp, Rowett, Jones and Alex Neil. This list covers every championship manager we have ever had since Gudjon promoted us. Apart from of course TPs second reign at this level of which I imagine was definitely higher due to promotion. But Gudjon's win ratio is in a tier lower than those mentioned. Get your point but we'd 'expect' to have a much higher win ration in a lower league.
|
|
|
Post by nottsover60 on Feb 13, 2023 10:14:56 GMT
But does answer the thread title asking to compare the two. Do you believe AN has done better than MON? We all know what deficiencies MON had, there are plenty of threads discussing him. This one has a different title. Read it and you'll see that your last comment was misplaced on this thread. It asks whether what Neil has done since has been any better or even worse. Thread title doesn't mention AN. My first post on this thread answered the question. Doubtful. There'd be very little difference if he'd seen us through this season. We were struggling We are struggling We shall continue to struggle Would MON have done better than who then if not AN? It's a comparative question. Who are you comparing to?
|
|
|
Post by st3mark on Feb 13, 2023 10:16:52 GMT
Correct. The win ratio comparing MON and AN is providing to show that we likely would have been better off with MON. The mention of Gudjon is there really to show that he had a better win ratio at this level than cotteril, Pulis first reign, Boskamp, Rowett, Jones and Alex Neil. This list covers every championship manager we have ever had since Gudjon promoted us. Apart from of course TPs second reign at this level of which I imagine was definitely higher due to promotion. But Gudjon's win ratio is in a tier lower than those mentioned. Get your point but we'd 'expect' to have a much higher win ration in a lower league. As I've already stated mate, the mention of Gudjon is there as a measure of time. It shows that since Gudjon promoted to this level in 2002 and Cotteril took over at this level that season MON has a better win ration than every manager at this level.
|
|
|
Post by nott1 on Feb 13, 2023 10:18:44 GMT
Fair enough. I don't agree (for me that awful run last season should have seen him handed his cards then and the summer's messy recruitment only reinforced that) but had always wondered quite why you were such a big fan of MON and what you saw that I didn't, and you've answered that eloquently, cheers. I agree with that but had I known we were bringing in Neil and that he would proceed to confirm all the misgivings I had about him I would prefer to have stuck with MON. We haven't improved in any way that I can see, we have muddied the waters further with another transfer window for another manager, sent back 4 players other clubs sent to us in the summer perhaps damaging their relationship with us and our reputation with any clubs looking to do a youth loan. The January window, apart from Pearson did not balance the squad, we are a striker option down and lost our best centre half. I feel sure MON would have persuaded Souttar to stay for the season. Looking at Okagbu warming up on Saturday I wondered why we had loaned an unfit, unproved centre half on loan when we had him. We have lost the player/manager relationship there was with Campbell and Powell both of whom could have saved our season for MON. The football, fitness and results have not improved. I would love to know in what way Neil is an improvement He certainly is not an improvement by any stretch of imagination and he has been given enough time to prove that he could be. Start looking Mr. Coates!
|
|
|
Post by middleoftheboothen on Feb 13, 2023 10:19:55 GMT
Exactly, the whole thread is an opinion based subject isn't it. For what it's worth I don't think he would have done any better. Can you explain why you believe that please? Based on my opinion which is what this thread is, an opinion. Noone can be right either way because we will never know which you seem to be struggling with. I don't have to explain anything to you.
|
|
|
Post by prestwichpotter on Feb 13, 2023 10:21:08 GMT
Basing the seasons points total on 5 league games is pretty silly to be honest. AN's last 5 games have been identical (W1 D1 L3) so I guess we're already relegated......... It’s a fact 😂😂😂😂😂 It's a fact that we're getting relegated based on our last 5 games then. I'll start planning my trip to Leyton Orient now cheers for the heads up.........
|
|
|
Post by nottsover60 on Feb 13, 2023 10:28:58 GMT
I agree with that but had I known we were bringing in Neil and that he would proceed to confirm all the misgivings I had about him I would prefer to have stuck with MON. We haven't improved in any way that I can see, we have muddied the waters further with another transfer window for another manager, sent back 4 players other clubs sent to us in the summer perhaps damaging their relationship with us and our reputation with any clubs looking to do a youth loan. The January window, apart from Pearson did not balance the squad, we are a striker option down and lost our best centre half. I feel sure MON would have persuaded Souttar to stay for the season. Looking at Okagbu warming up on Saturday I wondered why we had loaned an unfit, unproved centre half on loan when we had him. We have lost the player/manager relationship there was with Campbell and Powell both of whom could have saved our season for MON. The football, fitness and results have not improved. I would love to know in what way Neil is an improvement Definitely questions about setting on a completely different type of manager with different ideas after the season has started and after a busy transfer window, we just don't seem to learn there. I agree we haven't improved but I don't think we're worse either, which damns both managers. MON's recruitment over the summer just confirmed to me that he'd totally lost it and had no idea how he wanted to set up anymore or what would make that work. Don't agree that Tuanzebe is improved, huge question marks over his fitness but he's been a very good player at this level previously. Back injuries and whether players ever fully get over them is a concern, I agree. No chance MON would've convinced Souttar to stay, he'd have wanted the transfer funds as much as anyone in our situation and I can't think of a single reason why Souttar would want to stay. Not sure Campbell has been any worse under Neil than he was under late era MON but the Powell situation is a shame and a concern and any manager worth his salt should be able to find a role for him. I'm bitterly disappointed in Neil's tenure so far but the job he's done at previous clubs and the odd flash of what he's tried to do here have me hopeful that he will eventually improve us, though it'll likely be a painful process. I agree with your points. Tuanzebe should improve us but isn't available yet seemingly as Okagbu was preferred on the bench on Saturday. Jagielka can't play three matches in a week so presumably that means either Tuanzebe fingers crossed will be fit for Wednesday or Okagbu may have to play. He was a hugely impressive figure warming up in front of us on Saturday and looks to have all the physical attributes of a centre half. I'm not sure how old he is but looked very calm and assured among the other centre halves and was tasked with giving them heading practice and pinned all his high passes straight onto their heads. If he has to play and does well where does that leave him, Tuanzebe and Taylor? I'm not sure we can hold our credibility as a borrowing club if we don't give a fit Tuanzebe game time but both Taylor and Okagbu need game time for their development. I take it we have no chance of signing Tuanzabe permanently which is why I question that loan.
|
|
|
Post by theonlooker on Feb 13, 2023 10:37:03 GMT
Pointless question and pointless thread which helps nothing and nobody (sorry OP). MON got the sack and that's the end of it. We need to concentrate on the current situation. Most threads on a fanzine are pointless then as nothing can be done about anything unless you believe the management come on here and think, yes that's a good idea I'll try that. Of course, but I just think there is a more relevant debate that we could be having amongst ourselves rather than comparing what might have been and one we definitely know we can't get an answer to. That being the performance of our current manager and whether he should spearhead our most important summer for years. Ultimately people can talk about what they want and I'm nobody to intervene. That's just my opinion on this topic. Pointless and a waste of time and energy.
|
|
|
Post by mickmillslovechild on Feb 13, 2023 10:52:30 GMT
I hope you are not having reading problems. The title of the thread is : Would M'O Neill done any better ? Yea I think he would for the reasons that I gave. If you think that the reasons are incorrect you should explain why they are,not simply parrot your own opinion. Some people believe that the world is flat. That does not mean that it is. What a poor example. Whether or not the earth is flat is a question that has an actual factual and verifiable answer and can be proved. This thread is 100% hypothetical, has no factual or verifiable answer and can never, ever be proved one way or the other. Even if you think your reasoning is "better" than anyone else's, it doesn't mean you've "won" or are "right" as no-one will ever know what definitely would have happened The title and OP is simply asking you to give your opinion, not to convince everyone else that your opinion is right and their opinion must therefore be wrong. No-one has said you HAVE to agree with any of their opinions or even tried to convince you that your opinion is wrong. It isn't an argument that anyone can actually win. There is no right or wrong answer as it's 100% hypothetical and no-one will actually ever know the answer i.e. it's a bit of fun (sorry, WAS a bit of fun until you turned up insisting that everyone must have valid justifications for an entirely hypothetical question or they'll get a telling off from you, you melt).
|
|
|
Post by The Toxic Avenger on Feb 13, 2023 10:58:30 GMT
This is all relative, though. Gudjon all in the third tier, MON in the second. The win ratios in the Prem are lower purely on the league we were playing in. I know I'd prefer a lower win ratio in a higher league and hope to build on it. Correct. The win ratio comparing MON and AN is providing to show that we likely would have been better off with MON. The mention of Gudjon is there really to show that he had a better win ratio at this level than cotteril, Pulis first reign, Boskamp, Rowett, Jones and Alex Neil. This list covers every championship manager we have ever had since Gudjon promoted us. Apart from of course TPs second reign at this level of which I imagine was definitely higher due to promotion. All it really shows imo is that win ratios don't really take context into consideration and thus aren't massively useful.
|
|
|
Post by roylandstoke on Feb 13, 2023 11:05:41 GMT
MON would have done better if he’d got a competent keeper.
Can’t say there’s been any real change ( positive or negative ) in performance or results since Neil arrived.
|
|
|
Post by st3mark on Feb 13, 2023 11:16:38 GMT
Correct. The win ratio comparing MON and AN is providing to show that we likely would have been better off with MON. The mention of Gudjon is there really to show that he had a better win ratio at this level than cotteril, Pulis first reign, Boskamp, Rowett, Jones and Alex Neil. This list covers every championship manager we have ever had since Gudjon promoted us. Apart from of course TPs second reign at this level of which I imagine was definitely higher due to promotion. All it really shows imo is that win ratios don't really take context into consideration and thus aren't massively useful. I'd say they are useful in a debate about who would have done better this season out of MON and AN because the 4% margin is actually quite a large gap when it comes to win ratios. MON was clearly likely to have won more games. Although we will never know. In the entire history of the club though I agree win rations aren't always a good indicator. But they are something to look at when comparing managers operating in virtually the same circumstances. A fairer comparison could be made after another 100 games if Neil lasts that long.
|
|
|
Post by prestwichpotter on Feb 13, 2023 11:23:52 GMT
Correct. The win ratio comparing MON and AN is providing to show that we likely would have been better off with MON. The mention of Gudjon is there really to show that he had a better win ratio at this level than cotteril, Pulis first reign, Boskamp, Rowett, Jones and Alex Neil. This list covers every championship manager we have ever had since Gudjon promoted us. Apart from of course TPs second reign at this level of which I imagine was definitely higher due to promotion. All it really shows imo is that win ratios don't really take context into consideration and thus aren't massively useful. The metric should always be points per game it's as simple as that......
|
|
|
Post by The Toxic Avenger on Feb 13, 2023 11:42:27 GMT
All it really shows imo is that win ratios don't really take context into consideration and thus aren't massively useful. I'd say they are useful in a debate about who would have done better this season out of MON and AN because the 4% margin is actually quite a large gap when it comes to win ratios. MON was clearly likely to have won more games. Although we will never know. In the entire history of the club though I agree win rations aren't always a good indicator. But they are something to look at when comparing managers operating in virtually the same circumstances. A fairer comparison could be made after another 100 games if Neil lasts that long. I don't think it does tbh because our squad has changed since MON took over and because managers have a shelf life and performances and results fluctuate. The MON who saved us and turned our season round in 2019/20 was a very different beast from the one we saw in the second half of last season and the start of this one.
|
|
|
Post by leesandfordstoupe on Feb 13, 2023 11:45:37 GMT
All it really shows imo is that win ratios don't really take context into consideration and thus aren't massively useful. The metric should always be points per game it's as simple as that...... Over a 25 game sample they're inseperable not only on points won but the manner in which they achieved them ie WDL. A sample of any more than 25 games is not comparing like with like. MON did extremely well when he first arrived but surely you can see why the 25 games before he went is/was more relevant. If he'd have continued what he produced in his first season his job would never have been in question. I'm personally convinced that a manager who built upon what MON had put in place ie progressive but moving the ball faster and being less cautious would have fared far better than AN but that's on the owners not AN, it was a typically stupid decision made at a typically stupid point in time.
|
|
|
Post by leesandfordstoupe on Feb 13, 2023 11:51:43 GMT
I'd say they are useful in a debate about who would have done better this season out of MON and AN because the 4% margin is actually quite a large gap when it comes to win ratios. MON was clearly likely to have won more games. Although we will never know. In the entire history of the club though I agree win rations aren't always a good indicator. But they are something to look at when comparing managers operating in virtually the same circumstances. A fairer comparison could be made after another 100 games if Neil lasts that long. I don't think it does tbh because our squad has changed since MON took over and because managers have a shelf life and performances and results fluctuate. The MON who saved us and turned our season round in 2019/20 was a very different beast from the one we saw in the second half of last season and the start of this one. Very true. I'd use the case of Klopp to illustrate this. Results have fallen off a cliff it's happened to him before. Can he put it right nobody knows but he's a bit special so you give him the chance but that won't go on forever. So he might put it right or he might have simply come to the end of his shelf life at that club. Does that make him a bad manager, does that mean he won't go somewhere else and be highly successful again? History says otherwise.
|
|
|
Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Feb 13, 2023 13:55:59 GMT
Of course it's speculation but I think O'Neill would have done better. He had injured players coming back, an established way of playing, players he had chosen and a happy looking dressing room. Neil has chopped and changed formations, has a set of players that don't suit the way he wants to play and has clearly decided some players don't have a future at the club which, along with his more abrasive style, has got to have a destabilising effect behind the scenes. I think under MoN we would be mid table rather than a relegation battle and maybe he'd taken us as far as he could - which still means we were way better than we were when he took over. Neil has taken us backwards but sometimes you have to go backwards to go forwards and maybe a shake up behind the scenes was necessary. I'm not going to write off Neil having inherited the wrong squad at the wrong time. I'll judge him this time next year when he'd working with his own squad and has had time to bed them in. To be honest I find it astonishing that anyone thought we would have done better this season under Neil - this squad and Neil is a match made on Blind Date. Had we gone for another manager with a similar style to MoN (Mowbray, Robins?) maybe, but not Neil. The players he had chosen didn't suit that established (and fairly unsuccessful) way of playing though. What would an MON XI for the first half of the season have looked like? Bursik Wilmot Jagielka (Souttar when fit) Taylor/Fernandes Clarke (Fosu or -gulp - Sparrow until he was fit again) Laurent/Thompson Baker Smallbone (Powell when fit) Fox (Tymon when fit) Brown/Delap Gayle There are enough glaring problems there in goal, at wing back, in midfield and up front to make me think we'd have struggled even when those key men returned. Bonham Jagielka Souttar Fox Clarke Laurant Baker Tymon Gayle Delap That's a pretty solid formation with players in fairly natural positions. MoN tried to play a considered passing game through the midfield and wingbacks - it might not be everyone's cup of tea but it has worked in the past and if we got a fairly consistent team out it could work again with the players he brought in to play that way. The problem is Neil started a few games like that, tried 4 at the back which didn't work, reverted back to 5 at the back and for some reason played a long ball game that didn't suit the players at all and in the last couple of games has started to play to feet again which has been a marginal improvement. Neil has chopped and changed styles with players that don't suit and we haven't bedded the players into a consistent style of play. As a result players we haven't got the best out of the players available - in particular the midfield and wingbacks. As I said it's speculation but I think if those players were asked to play in a way they'd been training for in the close season we'd have got more out of them and we'd be working as a team far better than we are at the moment. And I don't think all those loanees would have gone back leaving the squad so exposed to injury. We had a ridiculous turnover of players in January because MoNs squad wasn't working for Neil. I'm not blaming Neil - it's not his fault he was brought in when he was or inherited a squad that doesn't work for him. However blaming MoN doesn't cut it either - the issue is the circumstances, not the manager.
|
|
|
Post by nottsover60 on Feb 13, 2023 14:06:19 GMT
For the difference it has made is there anyone who can say that sacking MON for Alex Neil was the right decision. I'm not interested in sacking him was the right decision but bringing in Neil was wrong. If for the sake of argument Neil was the only manager we could afford who would accept the job would you have supported that decision?
|
|
|
Post by greenman on Feb 13, 2023 14:09:42 GMT
The players he had chosen didn't suit that established (and fairly unsuccessful) way of playing though. What would an MON XI for the first half of the season have looked like? Bursik Wilmot Jagielka (Souttar when fit) Taylor/Fernandes Clarke (Fosu or -gulp - Sparrow until he was fit again) Laurent/Thompson Baker Smallbone (Powell when fit) Fox (Tymon when fit) Brown/Delap Gayle There are enough glaring problems there in goal, at wing back, in midfield and up front to make me think we'd have struggled even when those key men returned. Bonham Jagielka Souttar Fox Clarke Laurant Baker Tymon Gayle Delap That's a pretty solid formation with players in fairly natural positions. MoN tried to play a considered passing game through the midfield and wingbacks - it might not be everyone's cup of tea but it has worked in the past and if we got a fairly consistent team out it could work again with the players he brought in to play that way. The problem is Neil started a few games like that, tried 4 at the back which didn't work, reverted back to 5 at the back and for some reason played a long ball game that didn't suit the players at all and in the last couple of games has started to play to feet again which has been a marginal improvement. Neil has chopped and changed styles with players that don't suit and we haven't bedded the players into a consistent style of play. As a result players we haven't got the best out of the players available - in particular the midfield and wingbacks. As I said it's speculation but I think if those players were asked to play in a way they'd been training for in the close season we'd have got more out of them and we'd be working as a team far better than we are at the moment. And I don't think all those loanees would have gone back leaving the squad so exposed to injury. We had a ridiculous turnover of players in January because MoNs squad wasn't working for Neil. I'm not blaming Neil - it's not his fault he was brought in when he was or inherited a squad that doesn't work for him. However blaming MoN doesn't cut it either - the issue is the circumstances, not the manager. 3-4-2 an interesting formation, not sure that has ever been tried successfully.
|
|
|
Post by prestwichpotter on Feb 13, 2023 14:10:06 GMT
The players he had chosen didn't suit that established (and fairly unsuccessful) way of playing though. What would an MON XI for the first half of the season have looked like? Bursik Wilmot Jagielka (Souttar when fit) Taylor/Fernandes Clarke (Fosu or -gulp - Sparrow until he was fit again) Laurent/Thompson Baker Smallbone (Powell when fit) Fox (Tymon when fit) Brown/Delap Gayle There are enough glaring problems there in goal, at wing back, in midfield and up front to make me think we'd have struggled even when those key men returned. Bonham Jagielka Souttar Fox Clarke Laurant Baker Tymon Gayle Delap That's a pretty solid formation with players in fairly natural positions. MoN tried to play a considered passing game through the midfield and wingbacks - it might not be everyone's cup of tea but it has worked in the past and if we got a fairly consistent team out it could work again with the players he brought in to play that way. The problem is Neil started a few games like that, tried 4 at the back which didn't work, reverted back to 5 at the back and for some reason played a long ball game that didn't suit the players at all and in the last couple of games has started to play to feet again which has been a marginal improvement. Neil has chopped and changed styles with players that don't suit and we haven't bedded the players into a consistent style of play. As a result players we haven't got the best out of the players available - in particular the midfield and wingbacks. As I said it's speculation but I think if those players were asked to play in a way they'd been training for in the close season we'd have got more out of them and we'd be working as a team far better than we are at the moment. And I don't think all those loanees would have gone back leaving the squad so exposed to injury. We had a ridiculous turnover of players in January because MoNs squad wasn't working for Neil. I'm not blaming Neil - it's not his fault he was brought in when he was or inherited a squad that doesn't work for him. However blaming MoN doesn't cut it either - the issue is the circumstances, not the manager. Not sure playing with 10 men was the answer though mate......
|
|
|
Post by OldStokie on Feb 13, 2023 14:18:41 GMT
You can't get a fag paper between them. Both have had to deal with the FFP situation and the real judgement can only be determined by how we're doing when AN has been here as long as MON. The hypothetical question posed by the OP can be also be attributed to the 'Would Mark Hughes have kept us up had we not sacked him and appointed Lambert?'
OS.
|
|