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Post by noustie on Dec 11, 2022 11:13:11 GMT
Bottle jobs as usual. And Southgate has been helped out by favourable routes through other tournaments (including the worst German side in decades). He's incapable of outfoxing one of the top coaches. Look at Morocco- they've just knocked out Spain and Portugal. When's the last time we knocked out ONE team of that stature from a tournament, let alone two?
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Post by spitthedog on Dec 11, 2022 11:18:20 GMT
I'm not convinced about this argument that we have the most talented players ever and its being wasted.
We had plenty of world class players in the past but hardly ever looked like doing anything in major competitions apart from one semi.
Owen, Rooney, Gascoigne, Linekar, Gerrard, Lampard, Scholes, Robson, Beckham, Shilton, Ferdinand. These would all be elite players in today's game.
Are we really saying theses young players are better than these?
We have talent but these current players are young and relatively inexperienced they have over-achieved if anything.
France looked miles better on paper.
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Post by tommycarlsberg on Dec 11, 2022 11:18:24 GMT
We have some very good players but also some very poor ones and a few more like mount,grealish and maddison who are overrated. Gareth is a very nice guy, but not good enough. Who we can get who is better is a tricky question. After the ITALY defeat I said if the managers had been swopped that England would have won. I would say the same after tonight's game. Mancini is doing punditry on Italian TV at the moment.
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Post by OldStokie on Dec 11, 2022 11:40:06 GMT
An overhaul, maybe not. But once again we had it right there… and we let it slip away. Knowing how to play is one skill. Knowing how to win is a different one Spot on Joe. I'm as gutted as everyone but decided not to post on this thread immediately after the game because emotion would have clouded my judgement. After a night's sleep I can look on it more sensibly. Some are saying we were the better side. I don't agree. Bottom line is that France, even allowing for that foul against Saka which would have ruled out that 1st goal if the ref had got it right, they scored two goals from open play and we were chasing the game by winning penalties, which we all know can be a lottery as proved by Harry's miss at the end. Their first goal should never have happened if we'd closed down their midfielder. Their second goal was a brilliant piece of work from Giroud to get between our two defenders to power that header into the net. We did play well and all the team can hold their heads up high for such a battling performance against what I reckon is the best side in the world. I don't get the downer on Southgate either. He's worked tirelessly to create a side that can beat any side in the world on its day. We're a work in progress with a very bright future in front of us. The best is yet to come. I'm proud of them all and I'm not going to let disappointment cloud my judgement. I now want to see a Croatia v France final. Modric was brilliant in the last game and it should be one hell of a battle between them, just as last night's game was to keep us on our toes right until the final whistle. Despite the politics, it's been a great tournament up to yet. OS.
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Post by crouchpotato1 on Dec 11, 2022 11:49:40 GMT
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Post by scfc75 on Dec 11, 2022 12:22:15 GMT
Hmmmm… is that the number of people who sat on sofas, or does it include those who said they were going to but then didn’t bother? 🤔
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Post by bigvern on Dec 11, 2022 12:45:33 GMT
Ref was shocking, how did he not see that assault on Mount and why did he take so long looking at the monitor?
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Post by potters11 on Dec 11, 2022 12:48:22 GMT
...and they said this World Cup wouldn’t capture the imagination of the public. What a load of baloney that was! For me aside from it feeling like a fridge outside rather than a microwave it’s felt like any other World Cup.
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Post by salopstick on Dec 11, 2022 12:55:34 GMT
A foreign manager isn’t the answer. And the sad fact is until Eddie Howe fancies a crack it’s it there isn’t really an English alternative
Play that exact game again and we are winning it most times.
We played well should have won but never. A few things went against st us but you have to create your own luck.
For all our good play We didn’t pressure them enough near the French box.
Southgate didn’t do too much wrong apart from maybe freshening up the subs a bit earlier.
He has spent 6 years making a team that for the first time in my memory is more than a collection of club players.
The future is bright and with a bit of luck will continue to improve
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Post by salopstick on Dec 11, 2022 13:02:16 GMT
It’s worth adding the mindset.
France are used to winning big games. We are not. They knew the only thing stopping them from a 3rd World Cup was England. They have won these games countless times in the last 25 years
We haven’t. One day it will click
It’s almost as if we are beating from the start.
Southgate has forged a togetherness but he has a player suffered the same way. he could do with some inspiration in his coaching set up.
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Post by GrahamHyde on Dec 11, 2022 13:04:41 GMT
One of the toughest defeats in a long time that. Actually feel worse than I did after the final last year.
Genuinely gutted, I honestly feel like we were the best team in this competition.
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Post by sticky on Dec 11, 2022 13:07:55 GMT
Still feel absolutely gutted, but they were brilliant last night, might of been the beer goggles but we looked the better team, the ref was a joke and if that pen goes on I think we’d of gone on to win…When you consider some of the shit they churned out under Mclaren, Capello and hodgson, this team are a joy to watch
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Post by spitthedog on Dec 11, 2022 13:24:40 GMT
Still feel absolutely gutted, but they were brilliant last night, might of been the beer goggles but we looked the better team, the ref was a joke and if that pen goes on I think we’d of gone on to win…When you consider some of the shit they churned out under Mclaren, Capello and hodgson, this team are a joy to watch and those managers had some world class players at their disposal too.
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Post by noustie on Dec 11, 2022 13:24:46 GMT
One of the toughest defeats in a long time that. Actually feel worse than I did after the final last year. Genuinely gutted, I honestly feel like we were the best team in this competition. Readily admit there's an element of relief in me saying it but I thought you were the best squad in the tournament and would have been a step to far for Morocco. Genuinely enjoyed watching them from a football perspective whereas I'd rather poke my eyes with stiff sweaty cocks than watch Hodgson's side and even wanted Capello's side to lose the coin toss. Can see you winning the Euros as something seemed to click last night and think the mentality of being able to go toe to toe with the best and dominate is now there.
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Post by prestwichpotter on Dec 11, 2022 13:25:03 GMT
...and they said this World Cup wouldn’t capture the imagination of the public. What a load of baloney that was! For me aside from it feeling like a fridge outside rather than a microwave it’s felt like any other World Cup. Just to compare 27 million watching the Croatia semi final on a Wednesday night in the last World Cup, and over 30 million watched the Euro finals v Italy. Saturday night prime time I would have expected more to watch…….
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Post by middleoftheboothen on Dec 11, 2022 13:27:15 GMT
Hmmmm… is that the number of people who sat on sofas, or does it include those who said they were going to but then didn’t bother? 🤔 They must have included people who said they were going to watch and then didn't. There's no way there was 23 million watching from where I was sitting.
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Dec 11, 2022 13:29:37 GMT
...and they said this World Cup wouldn’t capture the imagination of the public. What a load of baloney that was! For me aside from it feeling like a fridge outside rather than a microwave it’s felt like any other World Cup. Just to compare 27 million watching the Croatia semi final on a Wednesday night in the last World Cup, and over 30 million watched the Euro finals v Italy. Saturday night prime time I would have expected more to watch……. I still have absolutely no idea how these figures are worked out
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Post by potters11 on Dec 11, 2022 13:34:03 GMT
...and they said this World Cup wouldn’t capture the imagination of the public. What a load of baloney that was! For me aside from it feeling like a fridge outside rather than a microwave it’s felt like any other World Cup. Just to compare 27 million watching the Croatia semi final on a Wednesday night in the last World Cup, and over 30 million watched the Euro finals v Italy. Saturday night prime time I would have expected more to watch……. No I agree I expected more than 23 million people to tune in, what else would you be doing!? I am sure that figure will rise when other methods of viewing are included. It tends to take a few days for a more realistic number to take shape even more so in these days of various viewing “platforms.” The couple of things I would note in response to the Croatia and Italy match viewing figures they were both ahead of a working day the next day so you would expect more people to have gone out last night to watch the match with being a Saturday. The Italy match was obviously a final and it was broadcast on both the BBC and ITV, I know it shouldn’t make a difference but it does automatically add a fair few on the viewing figures.
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Post by lordb on Dec 11, 2022 13:38:35 GMT
we were the better team tonight, but southgate isn't taking us anywhere, he's a nice bloke and figurehead, but he's no tactician is he??! We were surprisingly aggressive tonight, but ffs we rotate the ball between the back 6 quite aimlessly. The only outlet for them was long, or if Henderson pulled out wide pickford still isn't good enough (imo), no doubt Courtios for example would have saved the first goal, for one hes a foot taller, he had plenty of time to see it even after the legs Maguire, loyalty can be a fault. He's a mistake like tonight waiting to happen every game. Luckily we don't play games where we're not favourites very often. Courtois is a pointless comparison Can only select the best Goalkeeper available and that's Pickford As for Maguire he was superb throughout the tournament in sharp contrast to his form for his club
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Post by scfcwebby on Dec 11, 2022 13:40:15 GMT
Just to compare 27 million watching the Croatia semi final on a Wednesday night in the last World Cup, and over 30 million watched the Euro finals v Italy. Saturday night prime time I would have expected more to watch……. I still have absolutely no idea how these figures are worked out Does a pub full of 200 purple class as 200 or 5 (the amount of TVs in said pub)???
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Dec 11, 2022 13:46:29 GMT
Knowing how to play is one skill. Knowing how to win is a different one Spot on Joe. I'm as gutted as everyone but decided not to post on this thread immediately after the game because emotion would have clouded my judgement. After a night's sleep I can look on it more sensibly. Some are saying we were the better side. I don't agree. Bottom line is that France, even allowing for that foul against Saka which would have ruled out that 1st goal if the ref had got it right, they scored two goals from open play and we were chasing the game by winning penalties, which we all know can be a lottery as proved by Harry's miss at the end. Their first goal should never have happened if we'd closed down their midfielder. Their second goal was a brilliant piece of work from Giroud to get between our two defenders to power that header into the net. We did play well and all the team can hold their heads up high for such a battling performance against what I reckon is the best side in the world. I don't get the downer on Southgate either. He's worked tirelessly to create a side that can beat any side in the world on its day. We're a work in progress with a very bright future in front of us. The best is yet to come. I'm proud of them all and I'm not going to let disappointment cloud my judgement. I now want to see a Croatia v France final. Modric was brilliant in the last game and it should be one hell of a battle between them, just as last night's game was to keep us on our toes right until the final whistle. Despite the politics, it's been a great tournament up to yet. OS. Difficult to disagree with most of that. Their first goal was just an excellent strike. Not much you can do about them sometimes. Another day it hits Bellingham and is blocked. Yes, he could've been closed down earlier so he didn't have time to shoot. Giroud's header was excellent under pressure, a quality goal. He had two chances and took one of them, the other bringing a decent save out of Pickford. That's why he's been a top striker at top clubs for what seems like ages! Having slept on it, the thing that gets to me most is what an opportunity it was. Aside from the fact that many of the previous winners were already gone, it was often the case that, in summer tournaments, we had players injured and out completely, players carrying knocks, players who were knackered at the end of a long season, it's hot and humid....none of that applied here. All our players were available, fit, match fit and fresh after just a dozen or so games into the premier league season, and temperatures were about 20-25 degrees. For once, that played into our hands. From here on, presumably, it'll be back to end of season tournaments. Other than a home tournament or another winter affair, we'll never have a better chance. Shame.
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Post by Sfance on Dec 11, 2022 13:47:45 GMT
I'm not convinced about this argument that we have the most talented players ever and its being wasted. We had plenty of world class players in the past but hardly ever looked like doing anything in major competitions apart from one semi. Owen, Rooney, Gascoigne, Linekar, Gerrard, Lampard, Scholes, Robson, Beckham, Shilton, Ferdinand. These would all be elite players in today's game. Are we really saying theses young players are better than these? We have talent but these current players are young and relatively inexperienced they have over-achieved if anything. France looked miles better on paper. The new generation is with very few exceptions ALWAYS perceived as better than past generations. It’s simply human nature to think that what you are experiencing in the present is more significant than what people experienced in the past.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2022 13:51:11 GMT
It's established ( unfortunately) that the world cup is won by some cynical, cheating, fouling, tactical fouling side like France, who have to foul anybody within about 20 yards of their goal ,just for being within about 20 yards of their goal . And at the other end of the pitch have to put in a tactical foul every time they lose the ball .
The euro's are won by some cynical, cheating, fouling tactical fouling side like Italy ,blah blah,you get the picture
This world cup will quite likely be won by an avalanche of cheating, tactical fouling etc from France or Argentina
If it's a France v Argentina final put a fiver on 16 yellow cards or more and make a few quid, while these two abominations of football teams, make you wonder, who the hell wants to watch this crap
Southgate is a players manager and his England side have played some lovely football
Sadly,in this day and age , that probably makes him a loser ,as the Italy's,France and Argentina's walk off with the silverware .
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Post by salopstick on Dec 11, 2022 14:05:16 GMT
It's established ( unfortunately) that the world cup is won by some cynical, cheating, fouling, tactical fouling side like France, who have to foul anybody within about 20 yards of their goal ,just for being within about 20 yards of their goal . And at the other end of the pitch have to put in a tactical foul every time they lose the ball . The euro's are won by some cynical, cheating, fouling tactical fouling side like Italy ,blah blah,you get the picture This world cup will quite likely be won by an avalanche of cheating, tactical fouling etc from France or Argentina If it's a France v Argentina final put a fiver on 16 yellow cards or more and make a few quid, while these two abominations of football teams, make you wonder, who the hell wants to watch this crap Southgate is a players manager and his England side have played some lovely football Sadly,in this day and age , that probably makes him a loser ,as the Italy's,France and Argentina's walk off with the silverware . We need to be a bit cleverer with our football. Because they can do gamesmanship with the best of them at their club.
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Post by LL Cool Dave on Dec 11, 2022 14:14:30 GMT
I have a feeling that photo of Mbappe grinning like a twat will come back to haunt him. Prick.
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Post by stokie1947 on Dec 11, 2022 14:24:27 GMT
our defence isn't good enough against top class teams reminds me of another team
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2022 14:53:06 GMT
our defence isn't good enough against top class teams reminds me of another team true , nobody anywhere this level ...
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Post by superjw on Dec 11, 2022 14:54:50 GMT
Having slept on last nights heartache it really bugs me that the standard of the officiating was so unbelievably poor. We all know the ref was incredibly poor but so too were the Lino’s on both wings. I didn’t realise at the time but it’s laughable looking back that our 2nd penalty even needed a VAR review - again the Lino on that side had full view and didn’t flag.
You can take a defeat like yesterday under normal circumstances, but it’s an incredibly hard pill to swallow given there was significant impact from the actions (or lack threreof) from the officials. People may say that’s part of the game especially before VAR but fact of the matter is we would not have had the 2nd penalty to send into space without it.
Said it before but until referees start taking accountability nothing will change. Get the referees in the press rooms and give them their chance to explain contentious decisions.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2022 16:13:00 GMT
Just heard Eni Aluko suggest maybe England should’ve used a different player for the 2nd penalty given the added pressure and mind games of being up against his own teammate, but I think that’s utter nonsense. Imagine if someone else had taken it and missed? There would be a national inquest. Kane was the man but it was just a regrettable moment where the pressure got to him. It happens. Aluko’s suggestion is a classic case of hindsight bias. I've heard a few pundits mention that to be fair but it was never going to happen. I wasn't confident when he stepped up though Ye he did look visibly nervous actually. I thought it to myself but just hoped I was seeing things.
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Post by tqstokie on Dec 11, 2022 16:20:00 GMT
We had the same malaise as so many teams in Guardiola type football all this strolling around at the back, Maguire and Stones playing walking football. We only looked really dangerous when Pickford launched the ball forward or we managed to win the ball in their half. The Morrocans will be quite a test for France, they sit and sit in a shape but when the chance arises they are quick footed and accurate and move very quickly. Our match winner last night was Saka if we could have given him the ball quicker in more forward positions he had the beating of their very rash full back. We need to learn how to mix our approach, slowly, slowly is OK when you are winning and the other side are chasing the game.
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