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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Sept 6, 2022 13:51:52 GMT
For covering and tackling who do we have fit who's better? I know what you mean but he’s a nothing player , doesn’t do anything particular well Nobody else can really play there at the moment though.
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Post by iamstokie on Sept 6, 2022 13:52:59 GMT
I know what you mean but he’s a nothing player , doesn’t do anything particular well Nobody else can really play there at the moment though. Can Kilkenny ?
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Sept 6, 2022 13:56:09 GMT
Nobody else can really play there at the moment though. Can Kilkenny ? He's injured isn't he?
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Sept 6, 2022 14:37:11 GMT
Taylor has had a dodgy spell in nearly every game he has played this season and had a mare against Swansea. Wilmot is 22 - which is still young for a CB and has been pretty awful all season including having a hand in the last 3 goals we've conceded. We won't get away with a high line with that back three but experienced centre backs can cover their loss of pace through positioning and reading the game. Wilmot hardly contributed in terms of cutting out the ball over the top and that was down to positioning and awareness rather than pace.Bonham made a stupid mistake last week but he's way ahead of Bursik in the basics of goalkeeping. Bursik really needs to develop his game on loan not cost us points learning his trade in our first team. Smallbone has looked quite good in terms of linking up play. The alternative in that position is Powell who is only just coming back from injury and I'd be very surprised if he gets a starting slot after his glacial cameo against Reading. How's he meant to have done that most of the time he's been in the other half of the pitch. People are talking about his positioning like he's been playing to the same brief as Flint ie sit in and defend, go up for set pieces. Was his positioning wrong for the penalty he gave away covering Flint's space because he'd gone off on a fools errand? The ball over the top I was referring to was the first goal against Reading where Wilmot was part of the back three. He's played further forward in other games but not that one - and it was positioning and awareness that caught him out, not pace. Flint was playing central - the ball through was Wilmot's area of responsibility. The penalty wasn't positioning - it was poor decision making. Put in a tackle like that and any competent forward is going to milk it. It wasn't Flints fault Wilmot made a rash tackle. I have sympathy for the young defenders - they will make these sort of errors while they are gaining experience. I just don't think we can afford to give them game time in our first team - it's costing is points. I have a preference for experience when it comes to the defence.
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Sept 6, 2022 14:41:44 GMT
Taylor has had a dodgy spell in nearly every game he has played this season and had a mare against Swansea. Wilmot is 22 - which is still young for a CB and has been pretty awful all season including having a hand in the last 3 goals we've conceded. We won't get away with a high line with that back three but experienced centre backs can cover their loss of pace through positioning and reading the game. Wilmot hardly contributed in terms of cutting out the ball over the top and that was down to positioning and awareness rather than pace. Bonham made a stupid mistake last week but he's way ahead of Bursik in the basics of goalkeeping. Bursik really needs to develop his game on loan not cost us points learning his trade in our first team. Smallbone has looked quite good in terms of linking up play. The alternative in that position is Powell who is only just coming back from injury and I'd be very surprised if he gets a starting slot after his glacial cameo against Reading. Well it is all a matter of opinion. IMO Taylor has been in most games the pick of the back three. OK against Swansea was not his best but he was no worse than Flint, Fox or Clucas. IMO opinion against Reading proved it was a mistake to drop him. Smallbone has not played well since the second game when we beat Blackpool. He mostly goes backwards, he will not be seen once Powell is match fit. If Bursik had done what Bonham did he would have been dropped. IMO Bursik is fine he just needs people to believe and restore his confidence. IMO Bonham is not way ahead of Bursik. Taylor was very nervy against Swansea and it unsettled the defence. I like him and think he has a future but he still looks raw to me. We will have to disagree about Bonham and Bursik. Bonham is not great and maybe one day Bursik will be a better goalkeeper but at the moment Bursik isn't getting the basics right and his shot stopping (which you would expect to be decent at his age) is woeful. Until we get a decent keeper it has to be Bonham for me.
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Post by leesandfordstoupe on Sept 6, 2022 14:49:26 GMT
How's he meant to have done that most of the time he's been in the other half of the pitch. People are talking about his positioning like he's been playing to the same brief as Flint ie sit in and defend, go up for set pieces. Was his positioning wrong for the penalty he gave away covering Flint's space because he'd gone off on a fools errand? The ball over the top I was referring to was the first goal against Reading where Wilmot was part of the back three. He's played further forward in other games but not that one - and it was positioning and awareness that caught him out, not pace. Flint was playing central - the ball through was Wilmot's area of responsibility. The penalty wasn't positioning - it was poor decision making. Put in a tackle like that and any competent forward is going to milk it. It wasn't Flints fault Wilmot made a rash tackle. I have sympathy for the young defenders - they will make these sort of errors while they are gaining experience. I just don't think we can afford to give them game time in our first team - it's costing is points. I have a preference for experience when it comes to the defence. The first goal was Bonhams fault had he not come charging out he would have been in behind but by no means certain to score, even then Flint should have stopped it going in. The tackle was indeed an error of judgement but he was covering Flint's space who'd charged out of position then given up two thirds of the way to the ball being as he'd commited himself he should have continued on and clattered the player if neccessary. If you don't think he played further forward in that game I suggest you consult some heat maps. It's the experience/inexperience (slowness) that's killing us at the back. Ideally I'd drop every player you want to play.
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Post by iamstokie on Sept 6, 2022 14:52:27 GMT
I don’t know nothings really been said as far as I have seen
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Post by Staffsoatcake on Sept 6, 2022 15:19:32 GMT
Out of the 11 positions, how many square pegs can we put in square holes?
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Post by cheadlepotter on Sept 6, 2022 16:03:19 GMT
Luton have been playing with wingbacks in their last three games, according to Sky, with a 3412. With Tymon missing I don’t think we can outwingback them so should be looking at a back four. I’d go with 433, where the midfield three can change between DM/CM/CM in defence to CM/CM/AM in attack. I’m confident that any front three of ours can cause them plenty of problems.
Bonham (there’s nobody I’m happy with though)
Wilmot Taylor Flint Fox
Kilkenny (Thompson if unavailable) Baker Powell
Campbell Delap Brown
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Post by Staffsoatcake on Sept 6, 2022 16:48:44 GMT
Hopefully Powell will make Jones feel a fool for hardly picking him.
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Post by gingerninja on Sept 6, 2022 16:56:57 GMT
I know it's very early into AN's reign, but I think we need to see a performance on Saturday that gives us cause for optimism. He will have had a full week training & setting up a structure and this will hopefully lead to a solid performance.
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Post by Veritas on Sept 6, 2022 17:26:25 GMT
I know it's very early into AN's reign, but I think we need to see a performance on Saturday that gives us cause for optimism. He will have had a full week training & setting up a structure and this will hopefully lead to a solid performance. You would hope we are better prepared than at Reading but the problem is he can't plan for brainless mistakes and this early on can't completely rectify the lack of fitness.
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Post by Staffsoatcake on Sept 6, 2022 18:30:15 GMT
I know it's very early into AN's reign, but I think we need to see a performance on Saturday that gives us cause for optimism. He will have had a full week training & setting up a structure and this will hopefully lead to a solid performance. So somehow Neil has to turn a pigs ear into silk.
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Post by boskampsflaps on Sept 6, 2022 19:19:54 GMT
I know it's very early into AN's reign, but I think we need to see a performance on Saturday that gives us cause for optimism. He will have had a full week training & setting up a structure and this will hopefully lead to a solid performance. I think intent and work rate from the players will do me, the walking/jogging back after losing the ball is doing do my head in. If we get a result/performance great but there's just too much to sort out for it to be a quick turn around, not having the basics like being fully fit is ridiculous.
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Post by davejohnno1 on Sept 6, 2022 19:28:21 GMT
Out of interest, why would you prefer Bonham to Bursik? I wouldn't entertain Bonham for a second and if Fielding isn't deemed fit for a game then Bursik has to start. He's young, should get better and if he doesn't we should be able to command some kind of fee for him given his "reputation". Bonham is and always will be crap. Bursik, with a bit of confidence, might just improve. I'm not convinced he will by any stretch of the imagination but he's more likely to morph into a competent keeper than Bonham is ever likely to. Because I think he is the better goalkeeper of the two. Commands his box better, is a better size as well, and has had more good games than Bursik lately. Apart from the first goal on Sunday he has been OK, nothing extraordinary, but OK. That is a pretty big “apart from”. I’m really not sure how you can separate his horrendous mistake from the rest of his performance. You are seeing things I’m not in particular the command of his box as he does no such thing. I’d go as far as to say the rules are more likely “defender deal with it because the keeper won’t”. I think bursik is pretty crap as well and I have serious reservations if he’ll ever come good but Bonham is a Gordon Marshall esq clown.
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Post by davejohnno1 on Sept 6, 2022 19:30:00 GMT
Goalkeeper choice is interesting. One who will be shaking like a shitting dog after Sunday and another that lets in absolutely every shot he's faced with. Tough choice. So what do you do? Go all out on a flat back four and fill the forward line or try and reduce the amount of shots we face as a team, with a dirty 541 and try and shithouse our way to a few points until the walking wounded raise themselves from their death beds? I quite like bayerns idea of Jagielka donning the gloves.
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Post by robwahlmann on Sept 6, 2022 19:34:24 GMT
Because I think he is the better goalkeeper of the two. Commands his box better, is a better size as well, and has had more good games than Bursik lately. Apart from the first goal on Sunday he has been OK, nothing extraordinary, but OK. That is a pretty big “apart from”. I’m really not sure how you can separate his horrendous mistake from the rest of his performance. You are seeing things I’m not in particular the command of his box as he does no such thing. I’d go as far as to say the rules are more likely “defender deal with it because the keeper won’t”. I think bursik is pretty crap as well and I have serious reservations if he’ll ever come good but Bonham is a Gordon Marshall esq clown. I can also see that we need a new and better goalkeeper, but when it comes to Bonham and Bursik Bonham is my preferred choice.
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hotpot
Youth Player
Posts: 432
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Post by hotpot on Sept 7, 2022 0:42:29 GMT
Blondy; Wilmot, Taylor, Flint, Fox; Baker, Fosu, Thompson; DWP, Gayle, Brown. Subs: Sparrow, Smallbone, Jagielka, De Lap, Bonham, Laurent, Kilkenny.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2022 6:21:08 GMT
Blondy; Wilmot, Taylor, Flint, Fox; Baker, Fosu, Thompson; DWP, Gayle, Brown. Subs: Sparrow, Smallbone, Jagielka, De Lap, Bonham, Laurent, Kilkenny. Blondy is as bad as any of them.
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Sept 7, 2022 7:21:07 GMT
The ball over the top I was referring to was the first goal against Reading where Wilmot was part of the back three. He's played further forward in other games but not that one - and it was positioning and awareness that caught him out, not pace. Flint was playing central - the ball through was Wilmot's area of responsibility. The penalty wasn't positioning - it was poor decision making. Put in a tackle like that and any competent forward is going to milk it. It wasn't Flints fault Wilmot made a rash tackle. I have sympathy for the young defenders - they will make these sort of errors while they are gaining experience. I just don't think we can afford to give them game time in our first team - it's costing is points. I have a preference for experience when it comes to the defence. The first goal was Bonhams fault had he not come charging out he would have been in behind but by no means certain to score, even then Flint should have stopped it going in. The tackle was indeed an error of judgement but he was covering Flint's space who'd charged out of position then given up two thirds of the way to the ball being as he'd commited himself he should have continued on and clattered the player if neccessary. If you don't think he played further forward in that game I suggest you consult some heat maps. It's the experience/inexperience (slowness) that's killing us at the back. Ideally I'd drop every player you want to play. The first goal was a joint effort by Wilmot, Bonham and Flint - Wilmot was too far up the pitch and let his man get goal side. If the heat map shows Wilmot high up the pitch it explains his error - in that game he was playing as one of the CBs and should have been playing deeper. Regardless of what Flint did it was a rash tackle - you can't just blame other people for someone else's error. I agree it's the inexperience that is killing us at the back. Playing the game at a faster pace primarily means passing the ball quicker. Your strikers and midfield need to be pacey but providing the defence moves the ball quickly when in possession and position themselves properly and read the game pace isn't so important in your defence in terms of maintaing a higher tempo game - the pace is needed higher up the pitch. As to replacing my selections in an ideal world - well yes if all our players are available half my selections wouldn't be in my starting 11. The point about this thread is to pick a team from those available, not one that isn't actually possible.
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Post by leesandfordstoupe on Sept 7, 2022 7:44:49 GMT
The first goal was Bonhams fault had he not come charging out he would have been in behind but by no means certain to score, even then Flint should have stopped it going in. The tackle was indeed an error of judgement but he was covering Flint's space who'd charged out of position then given up two thirds of the way to the ball being as he'd commited himself he should have continued on and clattered the player if neccessary. If you don't think he played further forward in that game I suggest you consult some heat maps. It's the experience/inexperience (slowness) that's killing us at the back. Ideally I'd drop every player you want to play. The first goal was a joint effort by Wilmot, Bonham and Flint - Wilmot was too far up the pitch and let his man get goal side. If the heat map shows Wilmot high up the pitch it explains his error - in that game he was playing as one of the CBs and should have been playing deeper. Regardless of what Flint did it was a rash tackle - you can't just blame other people for someone else's error. I agree it's the inexperience that is killing us at the back. Playing the game at a faster pace primarily means passing the ball quicker. Your strikers and midfield need to be pacey but providing the defence moves the ball quickly when in possession and position themselves properly and read the game pace isn't so important in your defence in terms of maintaing a higher tempo game - the pace is needed higher up the pitch. As to replacing my selections in an ideal world - well yes if all our players are available half my selections wouldn't be in my starting 11. The point about this thread is to pick a team from those available, not one that isn't actually possible. Sorry I just don’t get the concept that Wilmot being forward as much as he was is like some one player decision on tactics. If it was the manager would be going bat shit with him, hooking him, not selecting him for the next game. Personally I totally agree he should be deeper not because I don’t want my defenders to contribute further up the field but in allowing him to do so removes the last remnant of mobility from the back line. If the rest of them weren’t so slow any of them could get forward and the rest would be able to cover. I don’t expect him to be dropped in fact he’s probably the first pick defensively the alternative’s aren’t just painfully slow they’re far inferior footballers the sooner we’re rid of them the better. If we’re playing 3 CB’s we need far more mobile proactive defenders.
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Sept 7, 2022 9:16:23 GMT
The first goal was a joint effort by Wilmot, Bonham and Flint - Wilmot was too far up the pitch and let his man get goal side. If the heat map shows Wilmot high up the pitch it explains his error - in that game he was playing as one of the CBs and should have been playing deeper. Regardless of what Flint did it was a rash tackle - you can't just blame other people for someone else's error. I agree it's the inexperience that is killing us at the back. Playing the game at a faster pace primarily means passing the ball quicker. Your strikers and midfield need to be pacey but providing the defence moves the ball quickly when in possession and position themselves properly and read the game pace isn't so important in your defence in terms of maintaing a higher tempo game - the pace is needed higher up the pitch. As to replacing my selections in an ideal world - well yes if all our players are available half my selections wouldn't be in my starting 11. The point about this thread is to pick a team from those available, not one that isn't actually possible. Sorry I just don’t get the concept that Wilmot being forward as much as he was is like some one player decision on tactics. If it was the manager would be going bat shit with him, hooking him, not selecting him for the next game. Personally I totally agree he should be deeper not because I don’t want my defenders to contribute further up the field but in allowing him to do so removes the last remnant of mobility from the back line. If the rest of them weren’t so slow any of them could get forward and the rest would be able to cover. I don’t expect him to be dropped in fact he’s probably the first pick defensively the alternative’s aren’t just painfully slow they’re far inferior footballers the sooner we’re rid of them the better. If we’re playing 3 CB’s we need far more mobile proactive defenders. I feel sorry for Wilmot in that he's been asked to play in several positions but despite his goal he had poor game against Reading and I wouldn't be surprised to see him dropped next game. It's not pace at the back that's killing us it's mistakes which is what you get if you play relatively inexperienced defenders. Wilmot's pace was no use in the first goal because his positioning was off and it didn't help with the penalty because it was just a bad decision to make an unnecessary lunge. At the back we need to reduce the errors - better positioning, better anticipation, better reading of the game and better decision making, the stuff that generally comes with experience.
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Post by leesandfordstoupe on Sept 7, 2022 9:30:00 GMT
Sorry I just don’t get the concept that Wilmot being forward as much as he was is like some one player decision on tactics. If it was the manager would be going bat shit with him, hooking him, not selecting him for the next game. Personally I totally agree he should be deeper not because I don’t want my defenders to contribute further up the field but in allowing him to do so removes the last remnant of mobility from the back line. If the rest of them weren’t so slow any of them could get forward and the rest would be able to cover. I don’t expect him to be dropped in fact he’s probably the first pick defensively the alternative’s aren’t just painfully slow they’re far inferior footballers the sooner we’re rid of them the better. If we’re playing 3 CB’s we need far more mobile proactive defenders. I feel sorry for Wilmot in that he's been asked to play in several positions but despite his goal he had poor game against Reading and I wouldn't be surprised to see him dropped next game. It's not pace at the back that's killing us it's mistakes which is what you get if you play relatively inexperienced defenders. Wilmot's pace was no use in the first goal because his positioning was off and it didn't help with the penalty because it was just a bad decision to make an unnecessary lunge. At the back we need to reduce the errors - better positioning, better anticipation, better reading of the game and better decision making, the stuff that generally comes with experience. No use discussing it further our opinions are polar opposite. You'd play the slow old defenders I'd get shot of them ASAP. You have to accept that your opinion isn't the majority not saying mine is either but plenty of people don't think Wilmot's performances are in any way the problem referenced by him getting highest rating for his performance vs Reading in the Sentinel for instance. I think they're just two competing incompatible views of the game.
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Sept 7, 2022 10:41:06 GMT
I feel sorry for Wilmot in that he's been asked to play in several positions but despite his goal he had poor game against Reading and I wouldn't be surprised to see him dropped next game. It's not pace at the back that's killing us it's mistakes which is what you get if you play relatively inexperienced defenders. Wilmot's pace was no use in the first goal because his positioning was off and it didn't help with the penalty because it was just a bad decision to make an unnecessary lunge. At the back we need to reduce the errors - better positioning, better anticipation, better reading of the game and better decision making, the stuff that generally comes with experience. No use discussing it further our opinions are polar opposite. You'd play the slow old defenders I'd get shot of them ASAP. You have to accept that your opinion isn't the majority not saying mine is either but plenty of people don't think Wilmot's performances are in any way the problem referenced by him getting highest rating for his performance vs Reading in the Sentinel for instance. I think they're just two competing incompatible views of the game. I really don't care whether my opinions are shared by the majority and the fact that Wilmot got the highest rating against Reading proves nothing. Where you see old I see experienced and at least I've offered an explanation why I'd prefer to see the experienced defenders in the side at the moment - because young inexperienced players make mistakes and it's mistakes that are costing us - not a lack of pace in the defence. Other than you seem to like pace for the sake of it and you think spouting the majority view is important you've given no explanation for your opinion. At the end of the day this is a matter of opinion and ours clearly differ so happy to leave it at that.
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Post by tqstokie on Sept 7, 2022 10:59:22 GMT
No use discussing it further our opinions are polar opposite. You'd play the slow old defenders I'd get shot of them ASAP. You have to accept that your opinion isn't the majority not saying mine is either but plenty of people don't think Wilmot's performances are in any way the problem referenced by him getting highest rating for his performance vs Reading in the Sentinel for instance. I think they're just two competing incompatible views of the game. I really don't care whether my opinions are shared by the majority and the fact that Wilmot got the highest rating against Reading proves nothing. Where you see old I see experienced and at least I've offered an explanation why I'd prefer to see the experienced defenders in the side at the moment - because young inexperienced players make mistakes and it's mistakes that are costing us - not a lack of pace in the defence. Other than you seem to like pace for the sake of it and you think spouting the majority view is important you've given no explanation for your opinion. At the end of the day this is a matter of opinion and ours clearly differ so happy to leave it at that. Lack of pace in defence cost us against Swansea and Sunderland and could have been a disaster v Middlesboro.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Sept 7, 2022 11:16:43 GMT
I really don't care whether my opinions are shared by the majority and the fact that Wilmot got the highest rating against Reading proves nothing. Where you see old I see experienced and at least I've offered an explanation why I'd prefer to see the experienced defenders in the side at the moment - because young inexperienced players make mistakes and it's mistakes that are costing us - not a lack of pace in the defence. Other than you seem to like pace for the sake of it and you think spouting the majority view is important you've given no explanation for your opinion. At the end of the day this is a matter of opinion and ours clearly differ so happy to leave it at that. Lack of pace in defence cost us against Swansea and Sunderland and could have been a disaster v Middlesboro. Yep. We're playing a high line and it's a recipe for disaster to populate the back three with ageing, milk float-slow centre backs. It's why MON's last-ditch bid for Federico Fernandes was yet more screaming evidence that he'd totally lost it.
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Post by GreaterGlasgowstokie on Sept 7, 2022 11:23:19 GMT
There's one player I trust in this squad. Baker.
The rest are all shit
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