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Post by boskampsflaps on Aug 25, 2022 20:28:41 GMT
How anyone can go below 5 is blatantly stupid. Could be League One without him. Excellent first half season Acceptable first full season Poor second full season Terrible start to third full season 6/10. Plenty didn’t go for him, but could have easily made it so much better for everyone including himself. Above 5 and he probably wouldn't be getting the sack, his football has been crap, his game management is none existent and he's wasted plenty of money along the way (relatively speaking).
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Post by AlbertTatlock on Aug 25, 2022 20:30:01 GMT
After some considerable thought I'll give him 4, he kept us up playing some good attacking football, he steadied a sinking ship but then abandoned the football that was dangled temptingly in front of the supporters for a system that he was determined to push on with regardless of the failures it bought, we were poor for the last 2 thirds of last season, the football was dire, we were getting spanked by teams at home consistently and our away form was just as poor, the supporters had nothing to cheer, few goals regular defeats, poor football, he didn't seem to know how to change a game or have a back up plan when things were going wrong, the players didn't look motivated, they seemed soft and lacked fight or passion, the team seemed to accept defeat far too nicely which was all down to MON. Gouranga.
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Post by dirtygary69 on Aug 25, 2022 20:33:59 GMT
If MON gets a 4 then what the fuck do some of the other rotters we have had here get? He doesn’t deserve to be lumped with that rubbish. He just didn’t have what it takes to get back to where we want to be. No disgrace in what he did overall, but he did severely balls up the last year or so in particular. It happens. It doesn’t make them a 4/10 manager!
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Post by mickstupp on Aug 25, 2022 20:34:55 GMT
Right, well let’s see who comes in then. I’m not convinced the likes of Neill will be any better. We might get a reaction and a new manager bounce to move us out of trouble, but the same conversations and the same criticisms will come to the fore in twelve months time. Sticking plaster solutions. If you really think things won't get any better whoever we get in then I really don't know what the point of it all is, we may as well just close the club down and we all go find something better to do. It's a really defeatist attitude. I just find the whole process nauseating. We shouldn’t be looking for another new manager again. It’s just not getting us anywhere.
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Post by scfc75 on Aug 25, 2022 20:39:06 GMT
If MON gets a 4 then what the fuck do some of the other rotters we have had here get? He doesn’t deserve to be lumped with that rubbish. He just didn’t have what it takes to get back to where we want to be. No disgrace in what he did overall, but he did severely balls up the last year or so in particular. It happens. It doesn’t make them a 4/10 manager! Logically, 4/10 is below average, and our league finishes have been… below average. So doesn’t a 4 make sense?
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Post by gawa on Aug 25, 2022 20:40:41 GMT
If MON gets a 4 then what the fuck do some of the other rotters we have had here get? He doesn’t deserve to be lumped with that rubbish. He just didn’t have what it takes to get back to where we want to be. No disgrace in what he did overall, but he did severely balls up the last year or so in particular. It happens. It doesn’t make them a 4/10 manager! Probably a bit of recency bias playing a part there I'd say. If the whole tenure was a 4/10 then why were 90% of the fans still in support of him 6 months ago.
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Post by AlbertTatlock on Aug 25, 2022 20:41:37 GMT
If MON gets a 4 then what the fuck do some of the other rotters we have had here get? He doesn’t deserve to be lumped with that rubbish. He just didn’t have what it takes to get back to where we want to be. No disgrace in what he did overall, but he did severely balls up the last year or so in particular. It happens. It doesn’t make them a 4/10 manager! Some of the shite managers we have had weren't given the time MON had at the club, he started well but it was all downhill from then on and fuck me some of the most boring football and negative tactics we've witnessed in a long while, it would have put a glass eye to sleep. You have your opinion about his tenure others have theirs it just so happens that mine is he he deserves a 4/10 just because you think he deserves more doesn't make you right. Gouranga.
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Post by AlbertTatlock on Aug 25, 2022 20:46:14 GMT
If MON gets a 4 then what the fuck do some of the other rotters we have had here get? He doesn’t deserve to be lumped with that rubbish. He just didn’t have what it takes to get back to where we want to be. No disgrace in what he did overall, but he did severely balls up the last year or so in particular. It happens. It doesn’t make them a 4/10 manager! Probably a bit of recency bias playing a part there I'd say. If the whole tenure was a 4/10 then why were 90% of the fans still in support of him 6 months ago. 90%? Where is your evidence to support this figure? Did you carry out a survey? Was a survey carried out by someone else? 80% of the supporters I know were wanting him gone over 6 months ago. I have their words on it, I have not just pulled a figure out of the air to support my opinion, I often had the conversation with them and counted them then did the math. Gouranga.
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Post by leesandfordstoupe on Aug 25, 2022 20:47:06 GMT
If you really think things won't get any better whoever we get in then I really don't know what the point of it all is, we may as well just close the club down and we all go find something better to do. It's a really defeatist attitude. I just find the whole process nauseating. We shouldn’t be looking for another new manager again. It’s just not getting us anywhere. Approaching 3 years is a longtime in football management. If you're not showing significant strides toward your targets it's very unlikely you're going to achieve anything significant no matter how long you're given. Most impact of managers comes quite early in their tenure.
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Post by dirtygary69 on Aug 25, 2022 20:48:57 GMT
If MON gets a 4 then what the fuck do some of the other rotters we have had here get? He doesn’t deserve to be lumped with that rubbish. He just didn’t have what it takes to get back to where we want to be. No disgrace in what he did overall, but he did severely balls up the last year or so in particular. It happens. It doesn’t make them a 4/10 manager! Some of the shite managers we have had weren't given the time MON had at the club, he started well but it was all downhill from then on and fuck me some of the most boring football and negative tactics we've witnessed in a long while, it would have put a glass eye to sleep. You have your opinion about his tenure others have theirs it just so happens that mine is he he deserves a 4/10 just because you think he deserves more doesn't make you right. Gouranga. He earned more time than others by doing a better job than them. If a player gets a 4/10 he’s had a stinker. O’Neill did not have a stinker. He had a poor last 10-12 months for sure but the fist half season was 10/10 territory. Why he diverted from that I really don’t know. I wanted him gone like pretty much everyone else did. I simply don’t think he did a 4/10 job overall and I don’t see how anyone could really. Unless they just like being over dramatic.
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Post by gawa on Aug 25, 2022 20:57:16 GMT
Probably a bit of recency bias playing a part there I'd say. If the whole tenure was a 4/10 then why were 90% of the fans still in support of him 6 months ago. 90%? Where is your evidence to support this figure? Did you carry out a survey? Was a survey carried out by someone else? 80% of the supporters I know were wanting him gone over 6 months ago. I have their words on it, I have not just pulled a figure out of the air to support my opinion, I often had the conversation with them and counted them then did the math. Gouranga. Yes I do actually. I did a survey 5 1/2 months ago during a bad spell which had the support at 23 for and 5 against. Here is the evidence - oatcakefanzine.proboards.com/thread/299129/mon-stick-twistThat was 82% in support, another month earlier I imagine the figure would be closer to 90%. Glad I could provide the evidence you asked for. Now can you supply yours. Or.... Did you just pull a figure out of the air to support your opinion? Lol
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Post by pavel on Aug 25, 2022 21:10:19 GMT
90%? Where is your evidence to support this figure? Did you carry out a survey? Was a survey carried out by someone else? 80% of the supporters I know were wanting him gone over 6 months ago. I have their words on it, I have not just pulled a figure out of the air to support my opinion, I often had the conversation with them and counted them then did the math. Gouranga. Yes I do actually. I did a survey 5 1/2 months ago during a bad spell which had the support at 23 for and 5 against. Here is the evidence - oatcakefanzine.proboards.com/thread/299129/mon-stick-twistThat was 82% in support, another month earlier I imagine the figure would be closer to 90%. Glad I could provide the evidence you asked for. Now can you supply yours. Or.... Did you just pull a figure out of the air to support your opinion? Lol I don't think 28 fans is a sufficient sample size for any meaningful dataset, it's just too small to be taken seriously as the margin for error is significant. Let's be honest we can't really talk for others about what they think or don't think unless the question(s) are suitably written to ensure there is no bias. That's why we have professional pollsters, algorithm's and very very carefully written questions.
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Post by AlbertTatlock on Aug 25, 2022 21:13:22 GMT
90%? Where is your evidence to support this figure? Did you carry out a survey? Was a survey carried out by someone else? 80% of the supporters I know were wanting him gone over 6 months ago. I have their words on it, I have not just pulled a figure out of the air to support my opinion, I often had the conversation with them and counted them then did the math. Gouranga. Yes I do actually. I did a survey 5 1/2 months ago during a bad spell which had the support at 23 for and 5 against. Here is the evidence - oatcakefanzine.proboards.com/thread/299129/mon-stick-twistThat was 82% in support, another month earlier I imagine the figure would be closer to 90%. Glad I could provide the evidence you asked for. Now can you supply yours. Or.... Did you just pull a figure out of the air to support your opinion? Lol PMSL so a massive 28 people took part in your "survey" with 82% in support of not getting rid of MON in March NOT 90% - so you just made that bit up As for my evidence, I'll ask them for their permission to post their names on her along with their opinion when I next see them, some I only see at the match so you'll have to wait a bit, it's quite a big list though and may take me a while to type it. Gouranga.
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Post by gawa on Aug 25, 2022 21:21:05 GMT
Yes I do actually. I did a survey 5 1/2 months ago during a bad spell which had the support at 23 for and 5 against. Here is the evidence - oatcakefanzine.proboards.com/thread/299129/mon-stick-twistThat was 82% in support, another month earlier I imagine the figure would be closer to 90%. Glad I could provide the evidence you asked for. Now can you supply yours. Or.... Did you just pull a figure out of the air to support your opinion? Lol PMSL so a massive 28 people took part in your "survey" with 82% in support of not getting rid of MON NOT 90% - so you just made that bit up As for my evidence, I'll ask them for their permission to post their names on her along with their opinion when I next see them, some I only see at the match so you'll have to wait a bit, it's quite a big list though and may take me a while to type it. Gouranga. Do you always take minutes from conversations you have and date them? Or you don't actually have any evidence? You said 80% of fans wanted him out and I said 90% wanted him in. And the only evidence either of us have is a poll dated 5 and a half months ago which showed over 80% of those surveyed wanted him as manager the next season. 18% didn't and none wanted him sacked at that time. I agree it's not the best sample size. But I'm not the one saying people are pulling figures out of thin air to back up their opinions, you are. And the only evidence either of us have suggests the person most likely pulling stuff out of thin air is yourself. I have no doubt some people you spoke to may have wanted him out, misery loves company.
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Post by AlbertTatlock on Aug 25, 2022 21:29:36 GMT
This IMO is how the ratings could be interpreted 10 the best ever 9 great 8 V good 7 goof 6 above average 5 average 4 below average 3 not v good 2 poor 1 shite Or to put it another way 10 Alf Ramsay 9 Alex Ferguson 8 Pep Guardiloa 7 Bill Shankly 6 Tony Waddington 5 David Moyes 4 Phil Brown 3 Paul Lambert 2 Brian Little 1 Neil Aspin Gouranga.
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Post by AlbertTatlock on Aug 25, 2022 21:33:40 GMT
Some of the shite managers we have had weren't given the time MON had at the club, he started well but it was all downhill from then on and fuck me some of the most boring football and negative tactics we've witnessed in a long while, it would have put a glass eye to sleep. You have your opinion about his tenure others have theirs it just so happens that mine is he he deserves a 4/10 just because you think he deserves more doesn't make you right. Gouranga. He earned more time than others by doing a better job than them. If a player gets a 4/10 he’s had a stinker. O’Neill did not have a stinker. He had a poor last 10-12 months for sure but the fist half season was 10/10 territory. Why he diverted from that I really don’t know. I wanted him gone like pretty much everyone else did. I simply don’t think he did a 4/10 job overall and I don’t see how anyone could really. Unless they just like being over dramatic. That's your opinion and you are entitled to it, I disagree with it having watched 99% of the Stoke games he was in charge of, I gave my reasons, that's my opinion. Gouranga.
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Post by AlbertTatlock on Aug 25, 2022 21:35:52 GMT
PMSL so a massive 28 people took part in your "survey" with 82% in support of not getting rid of MON NOT 90% - so you just made that bit up As for my evidence, I'll ask them for their permission to post their names on her along with their opinion when I next see them, some I only see at the match so you'll have to wait a bit, it's quite a big list though and may take me a while to type it. Gouranga. Do you always take minutes from conversations you have and date them? Or you don't actually have any evidence? You said 80% of fans wanted him out and I said 90% wanted him in. And the only evidence either of us have is a poll dated 5 and a half months ago which showed over 80% of those surveyed wanted him as manager the next season. 18% didn't and none wanted him sacked at that time. I agree it's not the best sample size. But I'm not the one saying people are pulling figures out of thin air to back up their opinions, you are. And the only evidence either of us have suggests the person most likely pulling stuff out of thin air is yourself. I have no doubt some people you spoke to may have wanted him out, misery loves company. I love being misquoted Gouranga.
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Post by Gods on Aug 25, 2022 21:47:27 GMT
After some considerable thought I'll give him 4, he kept us up playing some good attacking football, he steadied a sinking ship but then abandoned the football that was dangled temptingly in front of the supporters for a system that he was determined to push on with regardless of the failures it bought, we were poor for the last 2 thirds of last season, the football was dire, we were getting spanked by teams at home consistently and our away form was just as poor, the supporters had nothing to cheer, few goals regular defeats, poor football, he didn't seem to know how to change a game or have a back up plan when things were going wrong, the players didn't look motivated, they seemed soft and lacked fight or passion, the team seemed to accept defeat far too nicely which was all down to MON. Gouranga. Otherwise okay?! Firm but fair IMHO Apart from his Harry Houdini act when he first arrived he has had an absolute nightmare, nothing has gone right, I mean nothing, a disaster without mitigation, we've not been able to buy a win for 2 and a bit seasons
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Post by bayernoatcake on Aug 25, 2022 21:48:38 GMT
5 seems fair.
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Post by gawa on Aug 25, 2022 21:54:32 GMT
Do you always take minutes from conversations you have and date them? Or you don't actually have any evidence? You said 80% of fans wanted him out and I said 90% wanted him in. And the only evidence either of us have is a poll dated 5 and a half months ago which showed over 80% of those surveyed wanted him as manager the next season. 18% didn't and none wanted him sacked at that time. I agree it's not the best sample size. But I'm not the one saying people are pulling figures out of thin air to back up their opinions, you are. And the only evidence either of us have suggests the person most likely pulling stuff out of thin air is yourself. I have no doubt some people you spoke to may have wanted him out, misery loves company. I love being misquoted Gouranga. If it's any consolation. I was just as surprised as you to find the poll. Couldn't believe my luck
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Post by pistol on Aug 25, 2022 22:52:10 GMT
I'll add one more thing - he has massively helped the Board (and Scholes) to get out of jail. They owe him their professional reputations. Doesn’t he have some sort of accountancy qualification? He certainly put it to use here and that will be his major success. Maybe his future lies behind the scenes.
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Post by skip on Aug 25, 2022 22:56:44 GMT
I'll add one more thing - he has massively helped the Board (and Scholes) to get out of jail. They owe him their professional reputations. Doesn’t he have some sort of accountancy qualification? He certainly put it to use here and that will be his major success. Maybe his future lies behind the scenes. Some post-grad Business qual., I think? If so, yes, double bubble props.
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Post by canadianmoose on Aug 25, 2022 23:16:22 GMT
I would have fired him 18 months ago!
The writing was on the wall then.
I wasn't one of the 28 asked for the survey........................
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Post by nottsover60 on Aug 25, 2022 23:28:43 GMT
If MON gets a 4 then what the fuck do some of the other rotters we have had here get? He doesn’t deserve to be lumped with that rubbish. He just didn’t have what it takes to get back to where we want to be. No disgrace in what he did overall, but he did severely balls up the last year or so in particular. It happens. It doesn’t make them a 4/10 manager! Logically, 4/10 is below average, and our league finishes have been… below average. So doesn’t a 4 make sense? Flawed logic. Had Man Utd had our league finishes it would be well below average, Everton or Newcastle below average, Swansea or Stoke average, Peterborough above average, Forest Green Rovers well above average so 5 for MON from me.
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Post by senojbor on Aug 25, 2022 23:29:35 GMT
He had a job, he was well paid. It was obvious his heart and soul wasn't into it. Rarely showed emotion and consistently made bad calls Glad he's gone
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Post by scfc75 on Aug 26, 2022 0:27:57 GMT
Logically, 4/10 is below average, and our league finishes have been… below average. So doesn’t a 4 make sense? Flawed logic. Had Man Utd had our league finishes it would be well below average, Everton or Newcastle below average, Swansea or Stoke average, Peterborough above average, Forest Green Rovers well above average so 5 for MON from me. I think we underperformed vs where we should have finished, so below average for me.
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Post by leesandfordstoupe on Aug 26, 2022 6:56:54 GMT
Some of the shite managers we have had weren't given the time MON had at the club, he started well but it was all downhill from then on and fuck me some of the most boring football and negative tactics we've witnessed in a long while, it would have put a glass eye to sleep. You have your opinion about his tenure others have theirs it just so happens that mine is he he deserves a 4/10 just because you think he deserves more doesn't make you right. Gouranga. He earned more time than others by doing a better job than them. If a player gets a 4/10 he’s had a stinker. O’Neill did not have a stinker. He had a poor last 10-12 months for sure but the fist half season was 10/10 territory. Why he diverted from that I really don’t know. I wanted him gone like pretty much everyone else did. I simply don’t think he did a 4/10 job overall and I don’t see how anyone could really. Unless they just like being over dramatic. I think that might be using the Sentinel rating system that starts at 5. Players quite regularly give 4/10 performances in other peoples opinions. His first half season was probably either 8 or 9 out of 10. Since then it’s been below average, well below average, with a lot of down right crap thrown in for good measure.
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Post by potterpaul on Aug 26, 2022 8:22:49 GMT
This IMO is how the ratings could be interpreted 10 the best ever 9 great 8 V good 7 goof 6 above average 5 average 4 below average 3 not v good 2 poor 1 shite Or to put it another way 10 Alf Ramsay 9 Alex Ferguson 8 Pep Guardiloa 7 Bill Shankly 6 Tony Waddington 5 David Moyes 4 Phil Brown 3 Paul Lambert 2 Brian Little 1 Neil Aspin Gouranga. He gets a solid 7 in that case
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Post by leesandfordstoupe on Aug 26, 2022 8:34:39 GMT
Not prepared to do the work but think if you rated the performance of each game individually and averaged it you’d come out with a pretty low number. Certainly if I rated the home performances it would be there haven't been many good ones.
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Post by iglugluk on Aug 26, 2022 10:16:09 GMT
If MON gets a 4 then what the fuck do some of the other rotters we have had here get? He doesn’t deserve to be lumped with that rubbish. He just didn’t have what it takes to get back to where we want to be. No disgrace in what he did overall, but he did severely balls up the last year or so in particular. It happens. It doesn’t make them a 4/10 manager! Probably a bit of recency bias playing a part there I'd say. If the whole tenure was a 4/10 then why were 90% of the fans still in support of him 6 months ago. 90% in support 6 months ago is definitely overestimating the amounts mate. Many ( including myself ) were unhappy with the football being dished up, given the players at his disposal from Christmas on ( and the previous season was the same pattern too ). It was no surprise loads of people left before the players did their end of season lap of honour thing.
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