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Back 5
Aug 19, 2022 21:15:57 GMT
Post by stayingupforbigbazza on Aug 19, 2022 21:15:57 GMT
Has to change the formation or else he is committing Hari Kari .Wing backs not working .
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Back 5
Aug 19, 2022 21:28:36 GMT
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Post by BuckRogers on Aug 19, 2022 21:28:36 GMT
Well im hoping we play 3 up top. We got enough forwards now to mix it about. He's got start attacking more at home or its all over for him. Do what he wants away, I don't go any more😆
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Post by FullerMagic on Aug 19, 2022 21:42:39 GMT
Having to play Wilmot (if fit) or Sparrow at RB in a 4 feels like less of a problem than playing a winger and central midfielder at wing-back, having to play three from a weak stable of central defenders and having to leave out 2 of Gayle, Delap, Campbell and Brown every week I do apologise. I can’t understand your comments re Gayle, Delap, Campbell and Brown every week? Being thick 😁 Just meant that with this formation, 2 of that 4 would start every game on the bench, whereas with a back four, you could get three of them on the pitch (or play another square peg in a square hole out on the left in Fosu), and that forward area is a relative strength, as opposed to the defence.
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Back 5
Aug 19, 2022 23:05:17 GMT
Post by spitthedog on Aug 19, 2022 23:05:17 GMT
No change of formation by the looks of it I see it from both angles. MON wants to play a back 5, thats what he wants to play. I would judge him a whole lot more if he just dropped the back 5 and played 4 at the back. He's tried to recruit for the back 5 all summer. If he drops it now he looks weak to the fans. If that what he wants to play then stick with it! I would have alot more respect for him. HOWEVER, We dont have the players for a back 5. The most important positions for a back 5 are the wing backs. Arguably we have 1 put and out wing back. He failed to delivery on his own idea! Other teams play a back 5.... granted. But they are less tactically inept than us! Boro played a back 5 on wednesday and looked in different league than us. In the press conference he said 2 things that made me sigh heavily. Firstly he said, you cant just rip up a formation that you have been working on for 6 weeks - I would ask ....where are the signs that they have been working on it??? its so bloody dysfunctional and disorganised. Secondly, we have brought players to work to that system! - Really? Yet we will be playing a wing back system tomorrow without any wing backs!
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Back 5
Aug 20, 2022 0:25:23 GMT
Post by boskampsflaps on Aug 20, 2022 0:25:23 GMT
I see it from both angles. MON wants to play a back 5, thats what he wants to play. I would judge him a whole lot more if he just dropped the back 5 and played 4 at the back. He's tried to recruit for the back 5 all summer. If he drops it now he looks weak to the fans. If that what he wants to play then stick with it! I would have alot more respect for him. HOWEVER, We dont have the players for a back 5. The most important positions for a back 5 are the wing backs. Arguably we have 1 put and out wing back. He failed to delivery on his own idea! Other teams play a back 5.... granted. But they are less tactically inept than us! Boro played a back 5 on wednesday and looked in different league than us. In the press conference he said 2 things that made me sigh heavily. Firstly he said, you cant just rip up a formation that you have been working on for 6 weeks - I would ask ....where are the signs that they have been working on it??? its so bloody dysfunctional and disorganised. Secondly, we have brought players to work to that system! - Really? Yet we will be playing a wing back system tomorrow without any wing backs! I think you have to add to that, why have they not been working on an alternative system, its seems ridiculous that you'd be so unprepared and reliant on a system that has already been shown not to work with a lot of what he already had.
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Post by windows1 on Aug 20, 2022 6:57:59 GMT
I see it from both angles. MON wants to play a back 5, thats what he wants to play. I would judge him a whole lot more if he just dropped the back 5 and played 4 at the back. He's tried to recruit for the back 5 all summer. If he drops it now he looks weak to the fans. If that what he wants to play then stick with it! I would have alot more respect for him. HOWEVER, We dont have the players for a back 5. The most important positions for a back 5 are the wing backs. Arguably we have 1 put and out wing back. He failed to delivery on his own idea! Other teams play a back 5.... granted. But they are less tactically inept than us! Boro played a back 5 on wednesday and looked in different league than us. In the press conference he said 2 things that made me sigh heavily. Firstly he said, you cant just rip up a formation that you have been working on for 6 weeks - I would ask ....where are the signs that they have been working on it??? its so bloody dysfunctional and disorganised. Secondly, we have brought players to work to that system! - Really? Yet we will be playing a wing back system tomorrow without any wing backs! Exactly mate. I think its gone beyond the fact he wants to play a back 5, to he needs to play a back 5 for in his agenda and justification. On the whole i have no problem with the back 5, its how we play in it. Its slow' sidewalks, lump up. Its not the back 5 thats the problem, its his back 5 tactics. You have got the move the ball ALOT quicker than we are doing. I remember TP saying once 'always play your best players'. In this system 2 of them are going to be sitting on the bench in Ty and Gayle/delap/brown. He needs to get at least 3 of them on the pitch. However, back 5 or not. When we have a fully fit team we will win games by daufualt, just because our starting 11 trumps most teams. (What i believe). At this moment his back 5 won't seem to bad. Especially if we sign Clarke. Bursik Clarke (fosu) Wilmot (taylor) Soutter (jags) Clarke (fox) Tymon (lad from leeds*) Laurent (killkenny) Baker (clucus/thompson) Powel (smallbone) Gayle (Ty) Delap (browm) You have to give him some slack. Play what fucking formation you want, when 5/6 players are out through injury it becomes very disjointed. Again, i cant seem to judge him until he's had a fair crack at it. Someone said the other day the injuries since he arrived have been totally bad luck. However, you could argue the injury stints have kept him in a job due to how much slack he's receieved. At the start of last season we were playing some great football, that was 5 at the back?!. Its a tough one... to say the least. I cant argue with people who want him out anf i cant argue with people who want him in. The guys created the perfect storm
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Back 5
Aug 20, 2022 7:51:26 GMT
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Post by Bagwash on Aug 20, 2022 7:51:26 GMT
Wouldn't suprise me if the fool finds a place for Clucas.Couldnt give him away 12 months ago but now starting regularly.....madness. Who are the left sided alternatives? I would honestly select a right footed defender from the U23's than Clucas.The bloke has done absolutely nothing to justify his selection in the squad never mind the starting 11. Another MON decision that absolutely baffles me. And don't forget we couldn’t even give him away last year.
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Back 5
Aug 20, 2022 8:51:49 GMT
Post by jokker on Aug 20, 2022 8:51:49 GMT
Play Jones. He's not a freebie, but he's on our own books and is familiar with the system. He has never played for Stoke's first team before? That's a big mistake, but he has played internationally, so has gathered some experience, so he's above Sparrow in that sense. He struggled at his loan club? Is that his fault or was it a crap loan to begin with, with H'pool only wanting him for cover? What does O'Neill think of him? He rates him highly in interviews, but that's never been a guarantee that he will actually play somebody.
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Back 5
Aug 20, 2022 12:20:37 GMT
Post by canadianmoose on Aug 20, 2022 12:20:37 GMT
The man is fucking delusional. The system does not work 90% of the time. Even a broken clock is right twice a day.
To suggest he has recruited specifically for this system is just absolute bullshit based on what we are seeing.
As for other teams playing this system, yes, they are but it’s VERY different from how we play it.
Just fuck off. Perhaps another putrid display today will see the back of this absolute charlatan.
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samuel32
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Back 5
Aug 26, 2023 17:44:07 GMT
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Post by samuel32 on Aug 26, 2023 17:44:07 GMT
If there's one thing we've learned in the last few years, it's wing backs doesn't work for us.
We get it. It works every now and again, but its negativity sucks the life out of the players and our fans. We're not going to get anywhere by changing our tactics for other teams. We need our own way of playing, that is good enough to take on all comers.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Aug 26, 2023 17:48:03 GMT
Seeing a back 5 at 2pm just gives me ptsd.
Pathetic management from any Stoke manager to use it in any game in the last 6 years.
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Post by Bojan Mackey on Aug 26, 2023 17:49:05 GMT
Hopefully the fact he made four subs at half time has finally sounded the death knoll for this fucking god awful formation.
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Post by scfcno1fan on Aug 26, 2023 17:50:21 GMT
Seeing a back 5 at 2pm just gives me ptsd. Pathetic management from any Stoke manager to use it in any game in the last 6 years. I just don’t get the logic today. Millwall were ripe for the taking. The natives were restless. Play a 4-3-3 and get on top early. I haven’t seen any post match interviews but I hope he tries to explain it. I really really hope we don’t see it against Preston.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Aug 26, 2023 17:52:25 GMT
Seeing a back 5 at 2pm just gives me ptsd. Pathetic management from any Stoke manager to use it in any game in the last 6 years. I just don’t get the logic today. Millwall were ripe for the taking. The natives were restless. Play a 4-3-3 and get on top early. I haven’t seen any post match interviews but I hope he tries to explain it. I really really hope we don’t see it against Preston. Yeah he was scared of Millwall. Pathetic.
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samuel32
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Post by samuel32 on Aug 26, 2023 17:53:08 GMT
Hopefully the fact he made four subs at half time has finally sounded the death knoll for this fucking god awful formation. That was an admission that he fucked it. Fair play, but you've fuck half the game already mate. Hopefully he learns
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Post by kustokie on Aug 26, 2023 18:00:51 GMT
Hopefully the fact he made four subs at half time has finally sounded the death knoll for this fucking god awful formation. That was an admission that he fucked it. Fair play, but you've fuck half the game already mate. Hopefully he learns An argument can be made for not starting Burger and Leris if they are not match fit and don’t know their team mates. But in 20:20 hindsight he should have risked it. Hopefully he won’t make the same mistake again But, as was said before, there’s no excuse for not starting Pearson against a physical team like Millwall. Thompson is a decent squad player at best - definitely not a starter in a game like that.
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Back 5
Aug 26, 2023 18:01:02 GMT
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Post by cobhamstokey on Aug 26, 2023 18:01:02 GMT
Seeing a back 5 at 2pm just gives me ptsd. Pathetic management from any Stoke manager to use it in any game in the last 6 years. I’m hoping that because we have 2 competent CMs now who know how to defend we won’t need the extra insurance of a third CB. I’m hoping Neil feels the same.
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Back 5
Aug 26, 2023 18:02:37 GMT
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Post by bayernoatcake on Aug 26, 2023 18:02:37 GMT
Seeing a back 5 at 2pm just gives me ptsd. Pathetic management from any Stoke manager to use it in any game in the last 6 years. I’m hoping that because we have 2 competent CMs now who know how to defend we won’t need the extra insurance of a third CB. I’m hoping Neil feels the same. We’ve never needed that. It’s never worked and is really fuzzy logic based on the evidence. God I hate it.
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Post by jesusmcmuffin on Aug 26, 2023 18:02:54 GMT
I wish we had Cooper today. That guy would stop a tidal wave
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Post by chopperscfc on Aug 26, 2023 18:03:23 GMT
Seeing a back 5 at 2pm just gives me ptsd. Pathetic management from any Stoke manager to use it in any game in the last 6 years. In all fairness his post match today, he’s the first manager to openly admit he shouldn’t have started with it and then changed it accordingly to 433and he’s learned from it, fair play imo let’s just hope he sticks with it like he says.
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Back 5
Aug 26, 2023 18:05:28 GMT
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Post by vidigal7 on Aug 26, 2023 18:05:28 GMT
I just don’t get the logic today. Millwall were ripe for the taking. The natives were restless. Play a 4-3-3 and get on top early. I haven’t seen any post match interviews but I hope he tries to explain it. I really really hope we don’t see it against Preston. Yeah he was scared of Millwall. Pathetic. Or he's just a bit cautious after seeing Ipswich batter us being overly offensive. So many new signings and foreign players we could do without being battered well players settle and adjust. It's all well and good saying be more offensive play this formation etc etc, if we get slapped you'll be slagging off too. It's easy from a spectator point of view to say we should be set up to dominate with an offensive line up if it was that simple everybody would be doing it
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samuel32
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Posts: 367
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Post by samuel32 on Aug 26, 2023 18:06:57 GMT
Seeing a back 5 at 2pm just gives me ptsd. Pathetic management from any Stoke manager to use it in any game in the last 6 years. I’m hoping that because we have 2 competent CMs now who know how to defend we won’t need the extra insurance of a third CB. I’m hoping Neil feels the same. Yeah Burger can play DCM alongside Pearson for sure. He can help solidify us and reduce the need for today's negativity
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Post by SamB_SCFC on Aug 26, 2023 18:09:31 GMT
I don't know what it is because it's a system that works for other teams. But for whatever reason it just never seems to work at Stoke no matter how many different managers have tried it.
Like others have said, as soon as I see 3 centre backs my head drops. You just know you're in for a shit afternoon.
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Back 5
Aug 26, 2023 18:10:11 GMT
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Post by bayernoatcake on Aug 26, 2023 18:10:11 GMT
Yeah he was scared of Millwall. Pathetic. Or he's just a bit cautious after seeing Ipswich batter us being overly offensive. So many new signings and foreign players we could do without being battered well players settle and adjust. It's all well and good saying be more offensive play this formation etc etc, if we get slapped you'll be slagging off too. It's easy from a spectator point of view to say we should be set up to dominate with an offensive line up if it was that simple everybody would be doing it Go out and play our game. Don’t shit yourself and allow freedom within a defined system. Millwall were there for the taking and we rolled over and had our bellies tickled because the manager shat his pants.
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Post by Bojan Mackey on Aug 26, 2023 18:10:45 GMT
Seeing a back 5 at 2pm just gives me ptsd. Pathetic management from any Stoke manager to use it in any game in the last 6 years. In all fairness his post match today, he’s the first manager to openly admit he shouldn’t have started with it and then changed it accordingly to 433and he’s learned from it, fair play imo let’s just hope he sticks with it like he says. One thing I’ve noticed with Neil is he seems a bit soft if a team wins a match. He didn’t change it because the same team scraped a win against Watford, I think that’s where the manager rather than the mate brain needs to kick in because that’s not always the best policy.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Aug 26, 2023 18:14:00 GMT
In all fairness his post match today, he’s the first manager to openly admit he shouldn’t have started with it and then changed it accordingly to 433and he’s learned from it, fair play imo let’s just hope he sticks with it like he says. One thing I’ve noticed with Neil is he seems a bit soft if a team wins a match. He didn’t change it because the same team scraped a win against Watford, I think that’s where the manager rather than the mate brain needs to kick in because that’s not always the best policy. You only had to read the reaction on here after that game though People actually enjoyed it. Which I found odd. Great result and goal but we were totally negative and it was shit to watch. Critical thinking goes out of the window if we win. I get that to some extent from fans but a manager should have seen last week was really poor and moved away from it.
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Post by Bojan Mackey on Aug 26, 2023 18:15:00 GMT
One thing I’ve noticed with Neil is he seems a bit soft if a team wins a match. He didn’t change it because the same team scraped a win against Watford, I think that’s where the manager rather than the mate brain needs to kick in because that’s not always the best policy. You only had to read the reaction on here after that game though People actually enjoyed it. Which I found odd. Great result and goal but we were totally negative and it was shit to watch. Critical thinking goes out of the window if we win. I get that to some extent from fans but a manager should have seen last week was really poor and moved away from it. I never enjoy us playing 5 at the back. It’s never worked for us, ever.
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Post by vidigal7 on Aug 26, 2023 18:15:41 GMT
Or he's just a bit cautious after seeing Ipswich batter us being overly offensive. So many new signings and foreign players we could do without being battered well players settle and adjust. It's all well and good saying be more offensive play this formation etc etc, if we get slapped you'll be slagging off too. It's easy from a spectator point of view to say we should be set up to dominate with an offensive line up if it was that simple everybody would be doing it Go out and play our game. Don’t shit yourself and allow freedom within a defined system. Millwall were there for the taking and we rolled over and had our bellies tickled because the manager shat his pants. I do believe Neil intends to play a back 4 but it can't be underestimated how many players we have to gel. I fully expected a stop start to the start of the season, I expect it to click and improve, atm everybody is jostling for positions, it needs the window to close, games keep coming and the players to get familiar. Neil still has to find his best 11, start of the season was never going to be easy with the amount of change this club has seen this summer. I fully believe in this manager.
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Post by SuperRickyFuller on Aug 26, 2023 18:17:12 GMT
I don't know what it is because it's a system that works for other teams. But for whatever reason it just never seems to work at Stoke no matter how many different managers have tried it. Like others have said, as soon as I see 3 centre backs my head drops. You just know you're in for a shit afternoon. Said similar on another thread, it's a system that I've never known to really work for us or provide us with entertaining football for whatever reason. I don't get why the last few managers have tried it either, especially when most of them got a tune out of the squad playing four at the back. I swear this club makes managers think and do bizarre things. Listening to AN's post match interview, he's admitted he was wrong so I'm hoping he bins this formation for the foreseeable.
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Back 5
Aug 26, 2023 18:19:37 GMT
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Post by march4 on Aug 26, 2023 18:19:37 GMT
I just hope AN was proving a point to the squad that the back 5 doesn’t work. Either that or he was proving the point that we need a more dominant CB.
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