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Post by chuckrocky on Apr 18, 2022 18:39:58 GMT
It’s ace having your season effectively over in February two years on the trot, we can all look forward to it again with another year of O’Neil.
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Post by fraybentos on Apr 18, 2022 18:40:46 GMT
Is there really much of a conundrum when you weigh it all up? A man with a handle on the club, settling in his recruitment model, loads of players out of contract/loan after spending two years laying the FFP groundwork. Is trying to play a good brand of football that we are seeing in fits and starts. Fundamentally not much is broken just a frustrating fag paper difference between the top teams and where we are. We could rip it all up and start again, or we could be sensible and give him another go next year. No discussion for me. He has to stay and be backed as much as possible. Totally agree
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Post by leesandfordstoupe on Apr 18, 2022 18:41:17 GMT
Perhaps. But I still don’t think we’re a million miles away. And I think MON is still learning. Maybe one more transfer window….. What do you see changing? That's the question that convinces me it would be better if he went even though I can see many points that are made by posters with the opposite opinion.
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Post by xchpotter on Apr 18, 2022 18:41:26 GMT
It is difficult and what part he played in clearing out the dead wood and getting the wage bill down may well have been significant. That said, I would say that is more the job of the CEO. For the gash served up on the pitch alone, he has to go for me.
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Post by leesandfordstoupe on Apr 18, 2022 18:42:36 GMT
Is there really much of a conundrum when you weigh it all up? A man with a handle on the club, settling in his recruitment model, loads of players out of contract/loan after spending two years laying the FFP groundwork. Is trying to play a good brand of football that we are seeing in fits and starts. Fundamentally not much is broken just a frustrating fag paper difference between the top teams and where we are. We could rip it all up and start again, or we could be sensible and give him another go next year. No discussion for me. He has to stay and be backed as much as possible. Or we could have a manager that isn’t so negative at home, can see out a lead in this division, picks players on performances and also have the bollucks to make early subs when it’s not going his way? All very fair criticisms. Fletcher should have been subbed at half time at the very latest in the Bristol City game and even that would have been to avoid humiliating even more by doing so before.
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Post by wakeypotter on Apr 18, 2022 18:43:34 GMT
Now is the time for a change. If we let him be in charge for another year the team will be full of his signings as when loans have gone back and contracts have ended this is the time for change. If we keep him another year it will be a year wasted maybe more. How could it be more? Unless you're accusing him of saddling us with terrible poor value players which I think would be an unfair accusation even though I think he should go. Yeh that’s exactly what I’m saying Personally I don’t it’s harsh as he hasn’t got a great track record
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Post by leesandfordstoupe on Apr 18, 2022 18:48:45 GMT
How could it be more? Unless you're accusing him of saddling us with terrible poor value players which I think would be an unfair accusation even though I think he should go. Yeh that’s exactly what I’m saying Personally I don’t it’s harsh as he hasn’t got a great track record Tell me one that has. Not much more than 50% of transfers are successful whether you're MON or SAF.
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Post by wakeypotter on Apr 18, 2022 18:48:54 GMT
It isn't a 'fag paper difference' though is it? It's a Rowett-like inability against teams who don't let you play on the break? That's a much more systemic and fundamental problem than just 'aw shucks, what are you gonna do, maybe next year our luck will be in'? But then we can be excellent like today and v WBA. We’re not far away. Maybe one or two players. Soutar and a proper striker? We are miles away because it’s the manager that’s the problem. Mistake after mistake and doesn’t look like he could motivate himself
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2022 18:49:54 GMT
2 teams who will have had a more successful season than us will go up. They will have been better at picking up points, probably been better at accruing more wins and draws than us - so not sure where we are their equals? We should be up there was my point. There’s no excuse. Huddersfield are dire, Luton are dire, Millwall ffs are seventh. Awful league. A big difference between a successful side like Fulham and 14th place stoke , is Fulham are humble and stoke are arrogant Fulham take their A game to the likes of Huddersfield ( 5v 1 Fulham) Bristol city (6v2 Fulham) and Reading (7 v 0 Fulham) . They rock up at the likes of Huddersfield, Bristol and Reading determined to bring their A game, go for the jugular and demolish these teams.Thats a winning mentality. Stoke rock up v Bristol , Blackpool, reading etc with the arrogant mentality that the games in the bag , before the ball is kicked.Then get turned over by a club with even worse players than we have. That's a shameful attitude and a losers mentality
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Post by wakeypotter on Apr 18, 2022 18:50:36 GMT
Yeh that’s exactly what I’m saying Personally I don’t it’s harsh as he hasn’t got a great track record Tell me one that has. Not much more than 50% of transfers are successful whether you're MON or SAF. Put it this way. I’ve never known a manager sign a player and get rid within 6 months
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Post by dirtygary69 on Apr 18, 2022 18:51:55 GMT
Aye, can’t make up my mind. Is it too simple to suggest that it’s easier to start winning against shit teams than it is to start winning against better ones? We’ve shown we’re more than a match for the top 6/12 teams in this league generally but really struggled with the games where we’re favourites. I’ve put on the MON thread that there doesn’t have to be a major improvement. We could have won another two and been in with a shout of the play offs. It’s that close.
If he stays, there is usually much more optimism at the beginning of a season and with Souttar and Powell back, plus what you’d hope would be another batch of decent signings in addition I’d fancy us to have a decent crack at it.
He’s certainly not perfect, but you don’t get that at this level and even our most successful managers had major shortcomings. That said, if someone else becomes available who has a decent CV then we should definitely consider it.
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Post by leesandfordstoupe on Apr 18, 2022 18:54:26 GMT
But then we can be excellent like today and v WBA. We’re not far away. Maybe one or two players. Soutar and a proper striker? We are miles away because it’s the manager that’s the problem. Mistake after mistake and doesn’t look like he could motivate himself I think you only weaken the argument when you start bringing his demeanor on the touchline into it. There's plenty to work with without such nonsense.
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Post by stokieinlondon on Apr 18, 2022 18:54:40 GMT
I’d keep him at the club, no question. I understand people’s frustration and some of this season has been very disappointing- but it’s a new squad with young players and consistency is our problem. That is the sort of thing that can be remedied with continuity.
MON is a good manager, I have no doubt about that. Some of the players have let him down and we’ve been unlucky with big injuries again (Powell, Souttar, Campbell, etc).
If Dyche begs us for the job, it’s a consideration. But I’d be very happy to see MON stay and finish what he’s started.
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Post by wakeypotter on Apr 18, 2022 18:58:00 GMT
We are miles away because it’s the manager that’s the problem. Mistake after mistake and doesn’t look like he could motivate himself I think you only weaken the argument when you start bringing his demeanor on the touchline into it. There's plenty to work with without such nonsense. Listen mate. I’ve been reading a lot of your posts today that are utter utter nonsense and lack respect. Like yours it’s my opinion
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Post by scfcno1fan on Apr 18, 2022 18:59:31 GMT
Still has to go.
One result, good or bad, doesn’t change that.
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Post by leesandfordstoupe on Apr 18, 2022 19:00:35 GMT
We should be up there was my point. There’s no excuse. Huddersfield are dire, Luton are dire, Millwall ffs are seventh. Awful league. A big difference between a successful side like Fulham and 14th place stoke , is Fulham are humble and stoke are arrogant Fulham take their A game to the likes of Huddersfield ( 5v 1 Fulham) Bristol city (6v2 Fulham) and Reading (7 v 0 Fulham) . They rock up at the likes of Huddersfield, Bristol and Reading determined to bring their A game, go for the jugular and demolish these teams.Thats a winning mentality. Stoke rock up v Bristol , Blackpool, reading etc with the arrogant mentality that the games in the bag , before the ball is kicked.Then get turned over by a club with even worse players than we have. That's a shameful attitude and a losers mentality Not sure about the rest of it but that's the thing thats missing to my mind. Uber caution, stay in the game and see what happens instead of go out there and rip these bastards to shreds.
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Post by Vadiation_Ribe on Apr 18, 2022 19:01:09 GMT
It seems obvious to me that O'Neill is trying to build a young squad. Fletcher, Chester and Jagielka were 'make-do' players for a start, and we were lucky Jagielka became available. Thompson is hardly a 'plodder' either. Signing plodders is at least one criticism that can't be levelled at O'Neill given the young players he's signed and brought into the first team. Some 'plodders' are necessary. Even Man Utd's "You can't win anything with kids" team had older experienced players with the likes of Pallister, Irwin and Schmeichel. I'd say recruitment has been fairly average. I always think if you get over 50% of your transfers come off you're doing really well regardless of level or budget. Even the very best managers do a big percentage of deals that don't work out. I don't like a few of those listed as players but how many of them are really bad deals. I'd gladly make a case to get shot of MON but it wouldn't spend much time covering recruitment but oh dear Pallister, Irwin and Schmeichel were plodders that's made my day. I didn't call those players plodders - I was using that terminology based on the O'Neill signings that were called plodders - and you must get my point that experience is needed? Irwin was approaching the end of his time as a regular at Man Utd and Pallister was approaching the end of his career. Time will tell how successful O'Neill's signings have been, but on the whole I think his permanent signings have been good. Even some perceived to have been bad signings by many on here: We got our money back for Surridge. I thought Chester was good until this season. Wasn't he a free transfer too? Fox was a free transfer and to me is a good Championship player who has had his career derailed by injury since we signed him. Etc.
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Post by skip on Apr 18, 2022 19:01:11 GMT
Either the club changes its whole structure or it keeps MON. There is no point swapping him for another. Make MON Director of Football and bring in a first team coach who has been coached at the highest level. I'd go for Rooney.
Really.
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Post by leesandfordstoupe on Apr 18, 2022 19:03:37 GMT
I think you only weaken the argument when you start bringing his demeanor on the touchline into it. There's plenty to work with without such nonsense. Listen mate. I’ve been reading a lot of your posts today that are utter utter nonsense and lack respect. Like yours it’s my opinion Yeah right I'm supposed to respect someones opinion that a calm demeanor = looks like he couldn't motvate himself. I'll get on to that right away not.
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Post by FrankButcher on Apr 18, 2022 19:04:52 GMT
A big difference between a successful side like Fulham and 14th place stoke , is Fulham are humble and stoke are arrogant Fulham take their A game to the likes of Huddersfield ( 5v 1 Fulham) Bristol city (6v2 Fulham) and Reading (7 v 0 Fulham) . They rock up at the likes of Huddersfield, Bristol and Reading determined to bring their A game, go for the jugular and demolish these teams.Thats a winning mentality. Stoke rock up v Bristol , Blackpool, reading etc with the arrogant mentality that the games in the bag , before the ball is kicked.Then get turned over by a club with even worse players than we have. That's a shameful attitude and a losers mentality Not sure about the rest of it but that's the thing thats missing to my mind. Uber caution, stay in the game and see what happens instead of go out there and rip these bastards to shreds. Reminds me of forest under hughton that Uber caution mentality then comes in cooper who has completely transformed the team sets them up in a more positive manner and look where they are
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Post by leesandfordstoupe on Apr 18, 2022 19:08:23 GMT
Not sure about the rest of it but that's the thing thats missing to my mind. Uber caution, stay in the game and see what happens instead of go out there and rip these bastards to shreds. Reminds me of forest under hughton that Uber caution mentality then comes in cooper who has completely transformed the team sets them up in a more positive manner and look where they are When a managers ideas become outdated they rarely move with the game they tend to just keep doing what was successful for them at one time. Brighton saw that in Hughton and got rid many said unfairly. In time it will most likely happen to Cooper too.
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Post by wakeypotter on Apr 18, 2022 19:10:46 GMT
Listen mate. I’ve been reading a lot of your posts today that are utter utter nonsense and lack respect. Like yours it’s my opinion Yeah right I'm supposed to respect someones opinion that a calm demeanor = looks like he couldn't motvate himself. I'll get on to that right away not. Wasn’t on about respecting mine or other peoples posts. I couldn’t give a shit if you don’t respect my opinion. Instead of me saying he looks like he couldn’t motivate himself (which has obviously offended you) I will say he can’t motivate the team. Is that any better 🙄
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Post by 19notbeaten72 on Apr 18, 2022 19:15:04 GMT
He still needs to go for me i don't see next season being any different from this one i don't think he has what it takes to produce & maintain a winning mentality. The way he sets the team up mainly at home is boring & very negative there has only been 2 home games this season when i could say i was excited by what we produced West brom & Swansea pretty poor out of 19 home games.
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Post by Staffsoatcake on Apr 18, 2022 19:16:11 GMT
Mentioned it earlier, 2 squads, one for home games one for away games. 😋
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Post by leesandfordstoupe on Apr 18, 2022 19:16:49 GMT
Yeah right I'm supposed to respect someones opinion that a calm demeanor = looks like he couldn't motvate himself. I'll get on to that right away not. Wasn’t on about respecting mine or other peoples posts. I couldn’t give a shit if you don’t respect my opinion. Instead of me saying he looks like he couldn’t motivate himself (which has obviously offended you) I will say he can’t motivate the team. Is that any better 🙄 I suppose it is. I'm not sure it holds any more water because personally I don't think that's a problem but it didn't offend me I just thought it was disrespectful towards MON who to me looks and sounds like a really genuine guy even if I think his football is wank. It's just a question of being objective.
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Post by thevoid on Apr 18, 2022 19:17:03 GMT
Still has to go. One result, good or bad, doesn’t change that. Too little, too late. A few late season wins when the pressure's off, that's it
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Post by lordb on Apr 18, 2022 19:17:07 GMT
We are miles away because it’s the manager that’s the problem. Mistake after mistake and doesn’t look like he could motivate himself I think you only weaken the argument when you start bringing his demeanor on the touchline into it. There's plenty to work with without such nonsense. Does my head in when I see arguments pining for animated on the touchline manager The two most animated managers we ever had were Ball and Jones It's meaningless
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Post by leesandfordstoupe on Apr 18, 2022 19:21:09 GMT
Mentioned it earlier, 2 squads, one for home games one for away games. 😋 He certainly needs to learn there is a big difference in approach needed from home to away which it doesn't take a football professional to work out.
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Post by Gods on Apr 18, 2022 19:21:09 GMT
The last 5 words of MON's post match interview on being wished well with his hip operation were 'feel fit for next season'.
He certainly doesn't think he's going anywhere, and he's right.
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Post by mowlee on Apr 18, 2022 19:22:26 GMT
The last 5 words of MON's post match interview on being wished well with his hip operation were 'feel fit for next season'. He certainly doesn't think he's going anywhere, and he's right. I wouldn’t be so sure
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