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Post by sportsman on Apr 18, 2022 17:53:40 GMT
I'd like him to get it right as he's surprised me with trying play 'the right way' which has surprised me since he came as I expected a bit of a long ball game.
Playing this way has also enabled us with getting players on load from the likes of Pep and Gerrard maybe.
I wanted him out as it was getting rediculous a month or two back, the Bristol City game was boring as fuck, but then I watch someone like Chelsea trying Break down Palace and end up playing slow shifting it about trying to work openings which can be a problem when playing this way and teams pack the defence.
Tough one
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Post by a on Apr 18, 2022 17:54:03 GMT
Aup, we’ve won a game have we?! 😉 I’d still rather he goes at the end of the season. I can’t see him taking us anywhere other than mid-table. I’d like to see who comes out as available once the next managerial merry go round kicks in. Well we’ve actually won a few. 7 away for example. Thanks for pointing that out. I didn’t see this kind of optimism in recent weeks though, probably tied in with our very poor form since the turn of the year. 7 away wins though, that is top class. Home form, not so much.
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Post by foxysgloves on Apr 18, 2022 17:54:52 GMT
Well we’ve actually won a few. 7 away for example. Thanks for pointing that out. I didn’t see this kind of optimism in recent weeks though, probably tied in with our very poor form since the turn of the year. 7 away wins though, that is top class. Home form, not so much. I wouldn’t say optimism. Realism maybe?
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Post by nottsover60 on Apr 18, 2022 17:57:41 GMT
I just wanted think come the end of the season there will be too many good managers available we can not afford to miss out on. Every year managers perceived as good are sacked or leave. There's no guarantee they'll be successful at their new club either. As I keep saying look at Ishmael at WBA.
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Post by Jimm on Apr 18, 2022 17:59:26 GMT
Get rid at the end of the season... But we won't and he'll bring in a load of British plodders in the summer and we'll stagnate again in the middle of the division with the odd run but never threatening the top 6 Plodders like Baker? The odd exception. More like Flethcer, Chester, Surridge, thompson, duhaney, bonham, Jagielka, Morgan Fox...
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Post by foxysgloves on Apr 18, 2022 18:00:19 GMT
The odd exception. More like Flethcer, Chester, Surridge, thompson, duhaney, bonham, Jagielka, Morgan Fox... Brown? And Jags is arguably our player of the season.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Apr 18, 2022 18:02:24 GMT
It isn't a 'fag paper difference' though is it? It's a Rowett-like inability against teams who don't let you play on the break? That's a much more systemic and fundamental problem than just 'aw shucks, what are you gonna do, maybe next year our luck will be in'? But then we can be excellent like today and v WBA. We’re not far away. Maybe one or two players. Soutar and a proper striker? That reinforces my point though - we were away from home against teams who had the onus on them to take the game to us. When the onus is on us at home, we still look like we don't have a clue. It's more than one or two players, it's mindset, it's approach.
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Post by Jimm on Apr 18, 2022 18:04:06 GMT
The odd exception. More like Flethcer, Chester, Surridge, thompson, duhaney, bonham, Jagielka, Morgan Fox... Brown? And Jags is arguably our player of the season. He's about to turn 40 ffs! And a striker who scores every 249 minutes... ace!
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Post by iglugluk on Apr 18, 2022 18:04:25 GMT
I am still of the opinion he needs replacing as coach.. the last minute wins to achieve a reprieve is becoming all too common. It doesn't solve the inability to be reliable. I'm glad we won today none the less.
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Post by stokerstayinup on Apr 18, 2022 18:06:34 GMT
Is there really much of a conundrum when you weigh it all up? A man with a handle on the club, settling in his recruitment model, loads of players out of contract/loan after spending two years laying the FFP groundwork. Is trying to play a good brand of football that we are seeing in fits and starts. Fundamentally not much is broken just a frustrating fag paper difference between the top teams and where we are. We could rip it all up and start again, or we could be sensible and give him another go next year. No discussion for me. He has to stay and be backed as much as possible. It isn't a 'fag paper difference' though is it? It's a Rowett-like inability against teams who don't let you play on the break? That's a much more systemic and fundamental problem than just 'aw shucks, what are you gonna do, maybe next year our luck will be in'? 16 points from the first 6 home games before the Souttar and Powell injuries
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Post by mowlee on Apr 18, 2022 18:06:56 GMT
all the brownie points are gone with keeping us up.. so I accually don’t see the point in keeping someone who’s a bad run away from the sack
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Post by leesandfordstoupe on Apr 18, 2022 18:11:24 GMT
I think he should go but if as seems likely he stays I'll try to build some enthusiasm over the break and see whether he tries to produce something different at home to bring some feel good factor to the bet365 stadium. It'll take something I have seen very little sign of this season. Results haven't been good but performances have been even worse. Believe me games like Millwall and Sheff Utd will not do it. I listen to folk on the walk back up to Heron Cross and so many are just bored rigid by the games.
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Post by Vadiation_Ribe on Apr 18, 2022 18:12:51 GMT
The odd exception. More like Flethcer, Chester, Surridge, thompson, duhaney, bonham, Jagielka, Morgan Fox... It seems obvious to me that O'Neill is trying to build a young squad. Fletcher, Chester and Jagielka were 'make-do' players for a start, and we were lucky Jagielka became available. Thompson is hardly a 'plodder' either. Signing plodders is at least one criticism that can't be levelled at O'Neill given the young players he's signed and brought into the first team. Some 'plodders' are necessary. Even Man Utd's "You can't win anything with kids" team had older experienced players with the likes of Pallister, Irwin and Schmeichel.
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Post by adamsson on Apr 18, 2022 18:15:00 GMT
Is there really much of a conundrum when you weigh it all up? A man with a handle on the club, settling in his recruitment model, loads of players out of contract/loan after spending two years laying the FFP groundwork. Is trying to play a good brand of football that we are seeing in fits and starts. Fundamentally not much is broken just a frustrating fag paper difference between the top teams and where we are. We could rip it all up and start again, or we could be sensible and give him another go next year. No discussion for me. He has to stay and be backed as much as possible. We have a problem with teams who are willing to let us dominate possession. This means we often struggle against weaker teams. I don't have an easy solution but working on set pieces would be a good start.
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Post by foxysgloves on Apr 18, 2022 18:15:29 GMT
But then we can be excellent like today and v WBA. We’re not far away. Maybe one or two players. Soutar and a proper striker? That reinforces my point though - we were away from home against teams who had the onus on them to take the game to us. When the onus is on us at home, we still look like we don't have a clue. It's more than one or two players, it's mindset, it's approach. Perhaps. But I still don’t think we’re a million miles away. And I think MON is still learning. Maybe one more transfer window…..
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Post by foxysgloves on Apr 18, 2022 18:15:56 GMT
Brown? And Jags is arguably our player of the season. He's about to turn 40 ffs! And a striker who scores every 249 minutes... ace! Both been excellent though.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Apr 18, 2022 18:16:38 GMT
I don’t see it as a conundrum.
We had a pressure situation and we couldn’t win. That pressure is off and we start winning. The mentality is there for all to see imo. Such a waste of a season. One where 2 teams who aren’t better than us will go up.
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Post by owdestokie2 on Apr 18, 2022 18:22:04 GMT
Is there really much of a conundrum when you weigh it all up? A man with a handle on the club, settling in his recruitment model, loads of players out of contract/loan after spending two years laying the FFP groundwork. Is trying to play a good brand of football that we are seeing in fits and starts. Fundamentally not much is broken just a frustrating fag paper difference between the top teams and where we are. We could rip it all up and start again, or we could be sensible and give him another go next year. No discussion for me. He has to stay and be backed as much as possible.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Apr 18, 2022 18:24:00 GMT
It isn't a 'fag paper difference' though is it? It's a Rowett-like inability against teams who don't let you play on the break? That's a much more systemic and fundamental problem than just 'aw shucks, what are you gonna do, maybe next year our luck will be in'? 16 points from the first 6 home games before the Souttar and Powell injuries Even without them, and with the backing he's had, we should have been able to do better than we have done though surely? All that suggests is that we rely painfully heavily on Powell still.
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Post by emmbrook1956 on Apr 18, 2022 18:24:24 GMT
Maybe the support away from home is better. More vocal, more supportive . The crap crowd at home puts pressure on the team and the expectation is too high at home and the crowd begins to grumble. Simples! Doesn't explain the chants at Oakwell. Anyway, what are these home expectations that are 'too high'? I have to say that at Oakwell the fighting and the support was divided. I live just south of Reading and did not manage to get to Reading as I had a my retirement bash that evening! Locally I was told the support was quiet. I was told you would have got them going as I did at Swansea a few years ago in midweek!
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Apr 18, 2022 18:24:33 GMT
That reinforces my point though - we were away from home against teams who had the onus on them to take the game to us. When the onus is on us at home, we still look like we don't have a clue. It's more than one or two players, it's mindset, it's approach. Perhaps. But I still don’t think we’re a million miles away. And I think MON is still learning. Maybe one more transfer window….. What do you see changing?
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Post by leesandfordstoupe on Apr 18, 2022 18:25:10 GMT
The odd exception. More like Flethcer, Chester, Surridge, thompson, duhaney, bonham, Jagielka, Morgan Fox... It seems obvious to me that O'Neill is trying to build a young squad. Fletcher, Chester and Jagielka were 'make-do' players for a start, and we were lucky Jagielka became available. Thompson is hardly a 'plodder' either. Signing plodders is at least one criticism that can't be levelled at O'Neill given the young players he's signed and brought into the first team. Some 'plodders' are necessary. Even Man Utd's "You can't win anything with kids" team had older experienced players with the likes of Pallister, Irwin and Schmeichel. I'd say recruitment has been fairly average. I always think if you get over 50% of your transfers come off you're doing really well regardless of level or budget. Even the very best managers do a big percentage of deals that don't work out. I don't like a few of those listed as players but how many of them are really bad deals. I'd gladly make a case to get shot of MON but it wouldn't spend much time covering recruitment but oh dear Pallister, Irwin and Schmeichel were plodders that's made my day.
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Post by wakeypotter on Apr 18, 2022 18:27:08 GMT
Admin feel free to merge with the MON thread. My god he’s not making this easy is he? Can’t seem to perform at home. Performing well away. Winning games we don’t expect to. Then losing the winnable. I’m as 50/50 as they come. I see the sense in keeping faith but I feel the good will is virtually exhausted so maybe we should part company. It’s a coMONdrum (see what I did there. Maybe Carol Vorderman knows the answer. Now is the time for a change. If we let him be in charge for another year the team will be full of his signings as when loans have gone back and contracts have ended this is the time for change. If we keep him another year it will be a year wasted maybe more.
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Post by baystokie on Apr 18, 2022 18:29:15 GMT
I don’t see it as a conundrum. We had a pressure situation and we couldn’t win. That pressure is off and we start winning. The mentality is there for all to see imo. Such a waste of a season. One where 2 teams who aren’t better than us will go up. 2 teams who will have had a more successful season than us will go up. They will have been better at picking up points, probably been better at accruing more wins and draws than us - so not sure where we are their equals?
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Post by leesandfordstoupe on Apr 18, 2022 18:30:13 GMT
Is there really much of a conundrum when you weigh it all up? A man with a handle on the club, settling in his recruitment model, loads of players out of contract/loan after spending two years laying the FFP groundwork. Is trying to play a good brand of football that we are seeing in fits and starts. Fundamentally not much is broken just a frustrating fag paper difference between the top teams and where we are. We could rip it all up and start again, or we could be sensible and give him another go next year. No discussion for me. He has to stay and be backed as much as possible. We have a problem with teams who are willing to let us dominate possession. This means we often struggle against weaker teams. I don't have an easy solution but working on set pieces would be a good start. Definitely apart from direct attempts from free kicks by Vrancic then Baker maybe Powell the set piece routines are fucking hopeless. Corners and particularly throws show no invention of movement and are so predictable it's untrue. Wouldn't satisfy me as our open play needs to be much more offensive but it would be something.
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Post by leesandfordstoupe on Apr 18, 2022 18:32:01 GMT
I don’t see it as a conundrum. We had a pressure situation and we couldn’t win. That pressure is off and we start winning. The mentality is there for all to see imo. Such a waste of a season. One where 2 teams who aren’t better than us will go up. 2 teams who will have had a more successful season than us will go up. They will have been better at picking up points, probably been better at accruing more wins and draws than us - so not sure where we are their equals? Where do you watch your football on Ceefax?
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Post by bayernoatcake on Apr 18, 2022 18:33:36 GMT
I don’t see it as a conundrum. We had a pressure situation and we couldn’t win. That pressure is off and we start winning. The mentality is there for all to see imo. Such a waste of a season. One where 2 teams who aren’t better than us will go up. 2 teams who will have had a more successful season than us will go up. They will have been better at picking up points, probably been better at accruing more wins and draws than us - so not sure where we are their equals? We should be up there was my point. There’s no excuse. Huddersfield are dire, Luton are dire, Millwall ffs are seventh. Awful league.
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Post by leesandfordstoupe on Apr 18, 2022 18:36:37 GMT
Admin feel free to merge with the MON thread. My god he’s not making this easy is he? Can’t seem to perform at home. Performing well away. Winning games we don’t expect to. Then losing the winnable. I’m as 50/50 as they come. I see the sense in keeping faith but I feel the good will is virtually exhausted so maybe we should part company. It’s a coMONdrum (see what I did there. Maybe Carol Vorderman knows the answer. Now is the time for a change. If we let him be in charge for another year the team will be full of his signings as when loans have gone back and contracts have ended this is the time for change. If we keep him another year it will be a year wasted maybe more. How could it be more? Unless you're accusing him of saddling us with terrible poor value players which I think would be an unfair accusation even though I think he should go.
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Post by GallysGuitar on Apr 18, 2022 18:38:52 GMT
If he stays, he has to stick with one formation. Otherwise how do we recruit in the summer?
None of the top teams in any division chop and change formations so regularly.
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Post by David Brent on Apr 18, 2022 18:39:33 GMT
Is there really much of a conundrum when you weigh it all up? A man with a handle on the club, settling in his recruitment model, loads of players out of contract/loan after spending two years laying the FFP groundwork. Is trying to play a good brand of football that we are seeing in fits and starts. Fundamentally not much is broken just a frustrating fag paper difference between the top teams and where we are. We could rip it all up and start again, or we could be sensible and give him another go next year. No discussion for me. He has to stay and be backed as much as possible. Or we could have a manager that isn’t so negative at home, can see out a lead in this division, picks players on performances and also have the bollucks to make early subs when it’s not going his way?
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