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Post by pmjh on Feb 3, 2022 20:02:43 GMT
I want us too get too the premier league.. that’s not wanting too fail FFS it's to, not too! I'd like to say He's got at least two, too many too's
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Post by pmjh on Feb 3, 2022 20:04:06 GMT
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Post by mowlee on Feb 3, 2022 20:17:02 GMT
says on FlashScore 17.. but they ain’t added the Barnsley game which needs re-arranged so yeah your right 18.. 19 with the cup game
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Post by jokker on Feb 4, 2022 5:11:13 GMT
says on FlashScore 17.. but they ain’t added the Barnsley game which needs re-arranged so yeah your right 18.. 19 with the cup game 20 after winning vs Wigan.
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Post by mowlee on Feb 4, 2022 6:20:13 GMT
says on FlashScore 17.. but they ain’t added the Barnsley game which needs re-arranged so yeah your right 18.. 19 with the cup game 20 after winning vs Wigan. that’s even if we win Wigan
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Post by ColonelMustard on Feb 4, 2022 6:54:19 GMT
When O'Neill took over we were going down to League 1 in part because it was in a delusional state about the realities of it's situation - in particular the squad that went down simply wasn't good enough to provide the basis for an immediate return to the Premiership and neither were the players we brought in to replace the ones that left. We weren't a competent Championship club, let alone one that could mount a serious challenge for promotion. (A good many of the posters on here don't get just how bad we were or how hard it was/is to turn the situation around). The aim under O'Neill was to save us from relegation (tick), turn us into a competent Championship club (tick) and build a team capable of mounting a sustained promotion challenge and good enough to stay up if we get there (work in progress). So basically after three and a half seasons of heading in the wrong direction we've turned the corner and finally heading in the right direction. We're still closing in on the corner first. We're midtable. It could change, but at the moment it doesn't look like "mounting a sustained promotion challenge". We were in the top 2 not long ago but we didn't have any staying power. We've signed a staggering number of players mid-season, something very few teams do or only those who are desperate to avoid a calamity. We need to know how those new players will fit in and if they will improve on what was left behind by Batth et al, before we can state that we're on the right path. We still have deadwood on our books, though it's reduced heavily. A lot of the mid season deals have been players who as their contracts run down are more likely to take what other teams are willing to offer. Esp players down to half a season on their contracts. Most of the rest mid season deals have been trying loans. I think saving us from being Ipswich/ Sunderland/ Bolton/ Portsmouth/ Charlton and making us competitive in this league all while slashing the wage bill and with the huge and awkward turnover of personel has been impressive. Admittedly more impressive than whats been on the pitch at times. But it'll do me as the whole nightmare recovery project draws pretty much to a close this summer.
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Post by jokker on Feb 4, 2022 8:01:04 GMT
20 after winning vs Wigan. that’s even if we win Wigan You again betray your pessimism about this club.
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Post by jokker on Feb 4, 2022 8:17:52 GMT
We're still closing in on the corner first. We're midtable. It could change, but at the moment it doesn't look like "mounting a sustained promotion challenge". We were in the top 2 not long ago but we didn't have any staying power. We've signed a staggering number of players mid-season, something very few teams do or only those who are desperate to avoid a calamity. We need to know how those new players will fit in and if they will improve on what was left behind by Batth et al, before we can state that we're on the right path. We still have deadwood on our books, though it's reduced heavily. A lot of the mid season deals have been players who as their contracts run down are more likely to take what other teams are willing to offer. Esp players down to half a season on their contracts. Most of the rest mid season deals have been trying loans. I think saving us from being Ipswich/ Sunderland/ Bolton/ Portsmouth/ Charlton and making us competitive in this league all while slashing the wage bill and with the huge and awkward turnover of personel has been impressive. Admittedly more impressive than whats been on the pitch at times. But it'll do me as the whole nightmare recovery project draws pretty much to a close this summer. That depends. Of course I hope you're right, but we've just seen the biggest signing we've made post-Rowett(Jones, leave the club after just five months, who never found favour with fans, and more worryingly, with the manager. How many of the recent non-loan signings will be here for longer than Surridge. You'd be hard pressed to name a really successful O'Neill signing. The players that have done well for him/us are those who were signed by Jones and Hughes. Even DWP was not signed by O'Neill. So what I am getting at is there could be more "awkward turnover of personnel" and restoration nightmares to follow.
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Post by ColonelMustard on Feb 4, 2022 9:48:54 GMT
A lot of the mid season deals have been players who as their contracts run down are more likely to take what other teams are willing to offer. Esp players down to half a season on their contracts. Most of the rest mid season deals have been trying loans. I think saving us from being Ipswich/ Sunderland/ Bolton/ Portsmouth/ Charlton and making us competitive in this league all while slashing the wage bill and with the huge and awkward turnover of personel has been impressive. Admittedly more impressive than whats been on the pitch at times. But it'll do me as the whole nightmare recovery project draws pretty much to a close this summer. That depends. Of course I hope you're right, but we've just seen the biggest signing we've made post-Rowett(Jones, leave the club after just five months, who never found favour with fans, and more worryingly, with the manager. How many of the recent non-loan signings will be here for longer than Surridge. You'd be hard pressed to name a really successful O'Neill signing. The players that have done well for him/us are those who were signed by Jones and Hughes. Even DWP was not signed by O'Neill. So what I am getting at is there could be more "awkward turnover of personnel" and restoration nightmares to follow. I've seen many managers over the years criticised for standing by failed first or marquee signings. The Surridge sale looks pure fuck up if people want to see it that way. Or one of those things with a dose of pragmatism for the good of the team if seen in another. I agree ONeil is yet to prove he can build what we need when he has some reasonable resources, Im hoping we will find out over the next twelve months. But Im heartened by the general job in difficult circumstance so far, the age and enthusiasm of the core squad we should go into next season with and the fact we have seen players improving.
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Feb 4, 2022 9:50:57 GMT
A lot of the mid season deals have been players who as their contracts run down are more likely to take what other teams are willing to offer. Esp players down to half a season on their contracts. Most of the rest mid season deals have been trying loans. I think saving us from being Ipswich/ Sunderland/ Bolton/ Portsmouth/ Charlton and making us competitive in this league all while slashing the wage bill and with the huge and awkward turnover of personel has been impressive. Admittedly more impressive than whats been on the pitch at times. But it'll do me as the whole nightmare recovery project draws pretty much to a close this summer. That depends. Of course I hope you're right, but we've just seen the biggest signing we've made post-Rowett(Jones, leave the club after just five months, who never found favour with fans, and more worryingly, with the manager. How many of the recent non-loan signings will be here for longer than Surridge. You'd be hard pressed to name a really successful O'Neill signing. The players that have done well for him/us are those who were signed by Jones and Hughes. Even DWP was not signed by O'Neill. So what I am getting at is there could be more "awkward turnover of personnel" and restoration nightmares to follow. In terms of moving Surridge on - would you rather we got ourselves another Berahino? I'd say what happened there shows we're moving in the right direction. In terms of successful O'Neill signings - Vrancic has been excellent, Brown (not everyone's cup of tea but has made a good contribution), Thompson has been solid, Wilmott is raw but has potential and Baker looks like a proper midfielder. Also he may not have bought DWP, Campbell, Tymon and Souttar but he and his backroom staff have done more to bring on players from the academy than any other manager we have ever had. I've no doubt some of the summer signings won't work out but that would be true regardless of who the manager is and the fact that the rebuild will be pretty much complete this summer - and in fact easier than it would have been given the last two windows - indicates we are heading in the right direction even if it means there's a lot of work to be done to put together a squad that can sustain a promotion challenge. The one thing for sure is that if we had a manager who hadn't been as ruthless in terms of ins and outs we'd still be on a downward trajectory.
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Post by mowlee on Feb 4, 2022 9:59:30 GMT
that’s even if we win Wigan You again betray your pessimism about this club. they knocked out Blackburn in the last round.. our home form isn’t too hot.. will prob be more Wigan fans than stoke.. not exactly a full gone conclusion is it fella
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Post by pmjh on Feb 4, 2022 10:34:56 GMT
says on FlashScore 17.. but they ain’t added the Barnsley game which needs re-arranged so yeah your right 18.. 19 with the cup game 20 after winning vs Wigan. There would still be 19 left, if we win v wigan
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Post by jokker on Feb 4, 2022 10:46:34 GMT
That depends. Of course I hope you're right, but we've just seen the biggest signing we've made post-Rowett(Jones, leave the club after just five months, who never found favour with fans, and more worryingly, with the manager. How many of the recent non-loan signings will be here for longer than Surridge. You'd be hard pressed to name a really successful O'Neill signing. The players that have done well for him/us are those who were signed by Jones and Hughes. Even DWP was not signed by O'Neill. So what I am getting at is there could be more "awkward turnover of personnel" and restoration nightmares to follow. In terms of moving Surridge on - would you rather we got ourselves another Berahino? I'd say what happened there shows we're moving in the right direction. In terms of successful O'Neill signings - Vrancic has been excellent, Brown (not everyone's cup of tea but has made a good contribution), Thompson has been solid, Wilmott is raw but has potential and Baker looks like a proper midfielder. Also he may not have bought DWP, Campbell, Tymon and Souttar but he and his backroom staff have done more to bring on players from the academy than any other manager we have ever had. I've no doubt some of the summer signings won't work out but that would be true regardless of who the manager is and the fact that the rebuild will be pretty much complete this summer - and in fact easier than it would have been given the last two windows - indicates we are heading in the right direction even if it means there's a lot of work to be done to put together a squad that can sustain a promotion challenge. The one thing for sure is that if we had a manager who hadn't been as ruthless in terms of ins and outs we'd still be on a downward trajectory. I'm not criticising that he sold Surridge. I'm criticising that O'Neill bought him in the first place, without, or so it seems, knowing/finding out what sort of person he is, or what he wanted him for. I think your definition of "ever" seems to begin with Pulis who really didn't care about the youth section, but the club history does go back a lot longer than that. Hughes did some, basically uncredited work; the current team is bearing the fruit of the signings he made, he just wasn't allowed to see the players come through. But my point is that there have been managers back in the day who put great emphasis on youth, especially Waddo.
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Post by jokker on Feb 4, 2022 10:50:38 GMT
20 after winning vs Wigan. There would still be 19 left, if we win v wigan If you dont believe we could progress to the 6th round...
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Post by nottsover60 on Feb 4, 2022 10:50:51 GMT
20 after winning vs Wigan. that’s even if we win Wigan Where are we going to put them when we win them?
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Post by pmjh on Feb 4, 2022 10:59:59 GMT
There would still be 19 left, if we win v wigan If you dont believe we could progress to the 6th round... No. Because by the time we play another cup game, if we win v Wigan, there will be less league games left. You'd be more accurate to say at this stage there are AT LEAST 19 games left to play. If we beat Wigan that game has been played so there are still at least 19 games left to play.
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Post by mowlee on Feb 4, 2022 11:22:12 GMT
that’s even if we win Wigan Where are we going to put them when we win them? in my back pocket
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Post by Squeekster on Feb 4, 2022 12:07:35 GMT
In terms of moving Surridge on - would you rather we got ourselves another Berahino? I'd say what happened there shows we're moving in the right direction. In terms of successful O'Neill signings - Vrancic has been excellent, Brown (not everyone's cup of tea but has made a good contribution), Thompson has been solid, Wilmott is raw but has potential and Baker looks like a proper midfielder. Also he may not have bought DWP, Campbell, Tymon and Souttar but he and his backroom staff have done more to bring on players from the academy than any other manager we have ever had. I've no doubt some of the summer signings won't work out but that would be true regardless of who the manager is and the fact that the rebuild will be pretty much complete this summer - and in fact easier than it would have been given the last two windows - indicates we are heading in the right direction even if it means there's a lot of work to be done to put together a squad that can sustain a promotion challenge. The one thing for sure is that if we had a manager who hadn't been as ruthless in terms of ins and outs we'd still be on a downward trajectory. I'm not criticising that he sold Surridge. I'm criticising that O'Neill bought him in the first place, without, or so it seems, knowing/finding out what sort of person he is, or what he wanted him for. I think your definition of "ever" seems to begin with Pulis who really didn't care about the youth section, but the club history does go back a lot longer than that. Hughes did some, basically uncredited work; the current team is bearing the fruit of the signings he made, he just wasn't allowed to see the players come through. But my point is that there have been managers back in the day who put great emphasis on youth, especially Waddo. With Surridge you can look at it both ways, was it solely down to MON or part of a transfer team that is identifying young up and coming players, the fact it hasn't worked out is unfortunate but at least we managed to get rid for more or less the fee paid for. It's taken the best part of 3 years to get rid of players that didn't work so this has got to be a plus.
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Post by independent on Feb 4, 2022 12:31:51 GMT
And we actually got our money back on him, instead of having to pay a club to take him. Now that is a really welcome change.
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Post by jokker on Feb 4, 2022 13:19:39 GMT
And we actually got our money back on him, instead of having to pay a club to take him. Now that is a really welcome change. It's not really a "change". It's the way it always was and always should be. The getting rid of 20 players, by paying them to leave, in one window was an act of desperation. It made some sense because the players that left, or most of them, were all bad eggs, insofar as they were happy to be paid but not willing to play for us. We aren't rid of them all yet by the way. Some of them went out on loans and could be spending pre season in our camp while waiting for someone to take them on one more time.
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Post by prestwichpotter on Feb 4, 2022 14:00:55 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2022 14:58:14 GMT
For the first time in a few years I'm starting to become more confident in us heading in the right direction.
It's been an incredibly swift fall from grace. In the space of 3/4 years we went from a steady Premier League team to looking at relegation into League One.
I think the summer will be huge for us when a huge chunk of players end their contracts. From then I will begin to judge this manager. His work here really has been underappreciated by a lot of supporters who have wanted instant gratification.
For me, I gave this season up for sights of promotion who O'Neill to build a squad ready to go up to the Prem. Next season we might just have that depending on this summer's transfer window.
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Post by mowlee on Feb 4, 2022 15:50:11 GMT
For the first time in a few years I'm starting to become more confident in us heading in the right direction. It's been an incredibly swift fall from grace. In the space of 3/4 years we went from a steady Premier League team to looking at relegation into League One. I think the summer will be huge for us when a huge chunk of players end their contracts. From then I will begin to judge this manager. His work here really has been underappreciated by a lot of supporters who have wanted instant gratification. For me, I gave this season up for sights of promotion who O'Neill to build a squad ready to go up to the Prem. Next season we might just have that depending on this summer's transfer window. do all clubs give managers free seasons
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Post by mowlee on Feb 4, 2022 16:50:59 GMT
For the first time in a few years I'm starting to become more confident in us heading in the right direction. It's been an incredibly swift fall from grace. In the space of 3/4 years we went from a steady Premier League team to looking at relegation into League One. I think the summer will be huge for us when a huge chunk of players end their contracts. From then I will begin to judge this manager. His work here really has been underappreciated by a lot of supporters who have wanted instant gratification. For me, I gave this season up for sights of promotion who O'Neill to build a squad ready to go up to the Prem. Next season we might just have that depending on this summer's transfer window. do all clubs give managers free seasons hey Michael.. here’s 30 grand a week for afew years.. do what ya want fella
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Feb 4, 2022 17:13:16 GMT
In terms of moving Surridge on - would you rather we got ourselves another Berahino? I'd say what happened there shows we're moving in the right direction. In terms of successful O'Neill signings - Vrancic has been excellent, Brown (not everyone's cup of tea but has made a good contribution), Thompson has been solid, Wilmott is raw but has potential and Baker looks like a proper midfielder. Also he may not have bought DWP, Campbell, Tymon and Souttar but he and his backroom staff have done more to bring on players from the academy than any other manager we have ever had. I've no doubt some of the summer signings won't work out but that would be true regardless of who the manager is and the fact that the rebuild will be pretty much complete this summer - and in fact easier than it would have been given the last two windows - indicates we are heading in the right direction even if it means there's a lot of work to be done to put together a squad that can sustain a promotion challenge. The one thing for sure is that if we had a manager who hadn't been as ruthless in terms of ins and outs we'd still be on a downward trajectory. I'm not criticising that he sold Surridge. I'm criticising that O'Neill bought him in the first place, without, or so it seems, knowing/finding out what sort of person he is, or what he wanted him for. I think your definition of "ever" seems to begin with Pulis who really didn't care about the youth section, but the club history does go back a lot longer than that. Hughes did some, basically uncredited work; the current team is bearing the fruit of the signings he made, he just wasn't allowed to see the players come through. But my point is that there have been managers back in the day who put great emphasis on youth, especially Waddo. Every manager gets some signings wrong. O'Neill has recognised a mistake and fixed quickly and with minimal loss. Expecting a manager to get every signing right is nonsense - no-one does. Other than Allen name a Hughes signing who is still in and around the squad? You can't credit Hughes for bringing in academy players as the first team manager has little input in those decisions and the only youngster's Hughes bloodied as far as I recall were Edwards and N'Goy - neither of whom have made it. I started watching Stoke in the Waddington era - and you are right about him bringing on some good youngsters but going back 50 years does little to support your argument that we have a history of bringing on youngsters - unless you mean the last time we did it is now a matter for historians.
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Post by jokker on Feb 4, 2022 17:58:54 GMT
I'm not criticising that he sold Surridge. I'm criticising that O'Neill bought him in the first place, without, or so it seems, knowing/finding out what sort of person he is, or what he wanted him for. I think your definition of "ever" seems to begin with Pulis who really didn't care about the youth section, but the club history does go back a lot longer than that. Hughes did some, basically uncredited work; the current team is bearing the fruit of the signings he made, he just wasn't allowed to see the players come through. But my point is that there have been managers back in the day who put great emphasis on youth, especially Waddo. Every manager gets some signings wrong. O'Neill has recognised a mistake and fixed quickly and with minimal loss. Expecting a manager to get every signing right is nonsense - no-one does. Other than Allen name a Hughes signing who is still in and around the squad? You can't credit Hughes for bringing in academy players as the first team manager has little input in those decisions and the only youngster's Hughes bloodied as far as I recall were Edwards and N'Goy - neither of whom have made it. I started watching Stoke in the Waddington era - and you are right about him bringing on some good youngsters but going back 50 years does little to support your argument that we have a history of bringing on youngsters - unless you mean the last time we did it is now a matter for historians. Of course O'Neill can't get every signing right, but it would nice if he got a few right. Players signed by Hughes that are still in and around the first team are Souttar, Tymon, Bursik, and Campbell, none of whom were academy players but were signed for a fee. Funny thing: I say nothing about historians but you twist my words into saying that. I'm not the one who started going back in history. You did. Don't bother writing me back. I have no time for your manipulations, which seem to be the one thing you know how to do well.
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Post by lordb on Feb 4, 2022 18:03:57 GMT
For the first time in a few years I'm starting to become more confident in us heading in the right direction. It's been an incredibly swift fall from grace. In the space of 3/4 years we went from a steady Premier League team to looking at relegation into League One. I think the summer will be huge for us when a huge chunk of players end their contracts. From then I will begin to judge this manager. His work here really has been underappreciated by a lot of supporters who have wanted instant gratification. For me, I gave this season up for sights of promotion who O'Neill to build a squad ready to go up to the Prem. Next season we might just have that depending on this summer's transfer window. do all clubs give managers free seasons Managers used to get three seasons
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Post by mowlee on Feb 4, 2022 18:11:36 GMT
do all clubs give managers free seasons Managers used to get three seasons who
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Post by Goonie on Feb 5, 2022 8:49:49 GMT
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Post by mowlee on Feb 5, 2022 8:50:28 GMT
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