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Post by wuzza on Feb 3, 2022 16:18:15 GMT
As frustrating as this season (and last) has been at times, I find it hard to argue against the fact that he is very much the right man for the job at hand. The argument is he's already rebuilding his own rebuild. Jagielka, Chester, Fox, TOB, Fletcher, Surridge, Doughty plus all the loans (5 in the current squad) have all been brought in, in the last 18 months and most likely to be gone by next season. Is that sustainable? Or is it the nature of having less money and offering shorter term deals etc? I think he probably is now starting to rebuild on the initial measures he took to steady the ship. Hopefully one or two of the loans if successful could be back for another season at least but they are probably just a quick throw of the dice to see if anything can be rescued this season. Next steps are probably long term replacements for a Jags and Chester (which could be in the under 23 ranks already) while the Surridge situation clearly shows he is prepared keep shuffling the pack to achieve his aims.
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Post by mowlee on Feb 3, 2022 16:22:17 GMT
hahahah 10 years on were still in transition!! Trying too change the dynamic.. younger players.. I will give him is due.. he talks the talk He's been giving youth a chance TBF. Is that just because the academy is digging up diamonds though? I don't think so. the thing is.. all the shite he goes on about is like he’s trying too persuade people reading it that’s he’s doing all the right things.. but the thing is.. we don’t give a flying fuck about what age an what the dynamic is.. we want too get too the premier league!! quit the fucking bullshit an do your talking on the pitch for christ sake.. I will laugh my tits off if we get even worse with all these players he’s brought in
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Post by pmjh on Feb 3, 2022 16:23:09 GMT
As frustrating as this season (and last) has been at times, I find it hard to argue against the fact that he is very much the right man for the job at hand. The argument is he's already rebuilding his own rebuild. Jagielka, Chester, Fox, TOB, Fletcher, Surridge, Doughty plus all the loans (5 in the current squad) have all been brought in, in the last 18 months and most likely to be gone by next season. Is that sustainable? Or is it the nature of having less money and offering shorter term deals etc? You've more or less answered your own question. We've been bringing in players we can afford. Hopefully we can afford better in the summer.
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Post by pmjh on Feb 3, 2022 16:24:44 GMT
He's been giving youth a chance TBF. Is that just because the academy is digging up diamonds though? I don't think so. the thing is.. all the shite he goes on about is like he’s trying too persuade people reading it that’s he’s doing all the right things.. but the thing is.. we don’t give a flying fuck about what age an what the dynamic is.. we want too get too the premier league!! quit the fucking bullshit an do your talking on the pitch for christ sake.. I will laugh my tits off if we get even worse with all these players he’s brought in Why would you laugh if your team failed?
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Post by bagnallboothen on Feb 3, 2022 16:30:34 GMT
The argument is he's already rebuilding his own rebuild. Jagielka, Chester, Fox, TOB, Fletcher, Surridge, Doughty plus all the loans (5 in the current squad) have all been brought in, in the last 18 months and most likely to be gone by next season. Is that sustainable? Or is it the nature of having less money and offering shorter term deals etc? You've more or less answered your own question. We've been bringing in players we can afford. Hopefully we can afford better in the summer. Why would we suddenly come into disposable cash unless we sell someone for big money or the rules change?
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Post by chiswickpotter on Feb 3, 2022 16:41:57 GMT
You've more or less answered your own question. We've been bringing in players we can afford. Hopefully we can afford better in the summer. Why would we suddenly come into disposable cash unless we sell someone for big money or the rules change? The way the financial rules work and the fact Allen, Chester, Smith, Fletcher, Vrancic are out of contract in the summer means we will have more money to spend
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Post by chiswickpotter on Feb 3, 2022 16:44:38 GMT
He's been giving youth a chance TBF. Is that just because the academy is digging up diamonds though? I don't think so. the thing is.. all the shite he goes on about is like he’s trying too persuade people reading it that’s he’s doing all the right things.. but the thing is.. we don’t give a flying fuck about what age an what the dynamic is.. we want too get too the premier league!! quit the fucking bullshit an do your talking on the pitch for christ sake.. I will laugh my tits off if we get even worse with all these players he’s brought in We are a club that has lost £125 million in the last 3 seasons we have reported on and 2020/21 will be no better. The whole club wants to be in the PL but the financial reality is that it will take time as there is a mess to be sorted. There is clearly a plan that the owners have bought into and we have to be patient
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Post by miltonstokienew on Feb 3, 2022 16:45:41 GMT
the thing is.. all the shite he goes on about is like he’s trying too persuade people reading it that’s he’s doing all the right things.. but the thing is.. we don’t give a flying fuck about what age an what the dynamic is.. we want too get too the premier league!! quit the fucking bullshit an do your talking on the pitch for christ sake.. I will laugh my tits off if we get even worse with all these players he’s brought in Why would you laugh if your team failed? Because he's a bellend
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Post by pmjh on Feb 3, 2022 16:49:39 GMT
You've more or less answered your own question. We've been bringing in players we can afford. Hopefully we can afford better in the summer. Why would we suddenly come into disposable cash unless we sell someone for big money or the rules change? I never mentioned cash. You can get better players by offering better wages. Although there could be some cash available as transfer fees are often spread over a number of years.
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Post by chiswickpotter on Feb 3, 2022 16:54:27 GMT
It’s a good question and to answer it we have to start with our financial situation. Because of the huge spend on transfers and the contracts given out up to the departure of Nathan Jones change became a long-term project. Covid helped by allowing us to write off transfer fees much faster than would normally be the case. This is important because it means the annual charge to profit from writing off transfer fees will be close to zero by 2022/23, probably a year earlier than we hoped when MON signs. With all our high earners out of contract this summer or into their final year, we will be able to pay more competitive wages and transfer fees. Everything going on now is driven by this financial situation. MON has done an amazing job of massively reducing the wage bill, leading our players who didn’t want to play for us and bad financial,value ones who did like Batth, Gregory and Vokes. Transfer policy has celar ynbeen to only pay for young players with potential (I would argue 3 out of 6 have worked, one still could and one was largely cost free after yesterday’s sale), free veterans or experienced players to tide us over to 202/23 and loan players. There have been successes and failures but no more so than other clubs - this board judges players against an unreasonably high standard and ignores value for money. We have also promoted our own young players and could have some saleable assets in Bursik, Souttar, Campbell, DWP and maybe Tezgel. All this while making a transfer profit of around £7 million in the MON era. It is. A hugely impressive restructuring of the playing finances and is now being backed by an new investment programme in facilities. it appears the club think it is worth taking a punt on the play offs with the action over the last month but always constrained by the salaries of Smith, Allen, Clucas and Ince plus the need to wait for veterans like Fletcher and Chester to go. However, all the actions over the last few years suggest 2022/23 was always identified as the season to shift up a gear. That will be the test of MON Thanks, with regards to 22/23 (I assume you mean this summer coming up for total clarity?). I've never understood the big buzz around it and how we are going to be able to shift up a gear? Won't our solidarity payments drop to base rate of circa 6M ? At a time when we will need to cover quite a lot of players due to contract expiry? How does that fit into the rolling three year FFP calculation period? It's very rough maths and I hold my hand up completely in the way that I don't understand it one iota. Yes solidarity goes down but on the plus side 1. We get rid of high earners at no cost as their contracts expire and Etebo & Adobe will be in their last year and will have to be more flexible. 2 when we players, their cost is spread over the contract length and there is a.cost each year for FFP. After our spending spree, it would have been £20-25 million this season and next. However we managed to claim a huge Covid write off last year ( saying player values fell due to Covid rather than we have way overpaid). There was only £20m left at the start of last season so with a bit more Covid adjustment, we will be close to no charge going into next season. So despite no parachutes, with revenues of about £22m plus the allowable £13m from the owners, we could have £25m for wages, which is very competitive outside of teams with parachutes, and could spend £10m on fees (assuming 4 year contracts) is £2.5 m a season of accounting cost. We could spend £20m but would be li it if future seasons. If we sell a player that is extra to spend. Because of all this, 2022/23 will be very different financially to recent years.
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Post by prestwichpotter on Feb 3, 2022 17:09:05 GMT
As frustrating as this season (and last) has been at times, I find it hard to argue against the fact that he is very much the right man for the job at hand. The argument is he's already rebuilding his own rebuild. Jagielka, Chester, Fox, TOB, Fletcher, Surridge, Doughty plus all the loans (5 in the current squad) have all been brought in, in the last 18 months and most likely to be gone by next season. Is that sustainable? Or is it the nature of having less money and offering shorter term deals etc? High earners were still under contract to both the summer of 2021 and 2022 though so there was always going to be compromises along the way in terms of players we needed to bring in. It;s not as simple as just getting everyone out and bringing all your number one targets straight in. Take Smith for example, I have no doubt O'Neill would have used his wage to bring two players in if he was able to but I don't think there's ever been any interest. Fox was cheap cover, TOB an untried youngster and Chester someone who he thought would be an experienced defender capable of playing on the right and left if of a back two/three. I think next season will see us at least start from a position where the wage bill is sustainable, after that it's more vital than ever that the manager and recruitment team bring in a few gems and that the youth system bears fruit......
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Post by mowlee on Feb 3, 2022 17:14:10 GMT
Why would you laugh if your team failed? Because he's a bellend fuck off u absolute tool.. keyboard warrior
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Post by mowlee on Feb 3, 2022 17:18:26 GMT
the thing is.. all the shite he goes on about is like he’s trying too persuade people reading it that’s he’s doing all the right things.. but the thing is.. we don’t give a flying fuck about what age an what the dynamic is.. we want too get too the premier league!! quit the fucking bullshit an do your talking on the pitch for christ sake.. I will laugh my tits off if we get even worse with all these players he’s brought in Why would you laugh if your team failed? I want us too get too the premier league.. that’s not wanting too fail
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Post by davejohnno1 on Feb 3, 2022 17:34:38 GMT
As frustrating as this season (and last) has been at times, I find it hard to argue against the fact that he is very much the right man for the job at hand. The argument is he's already rebuilding his own rebuild. Jagielka, Chester, Fox, TOB, Fletcher, Surridge, Doughty plus all the loans (5 in the current squad) have all been brought in, in the last 18 months and most likely to be gone by next season. Is that sustainable? Or is it the nature of having less money and offering shorter term deals etc? I think you've answered your own question there.
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Post by biglad180 on Feb 3, 2022 17:54:00 GMT
I think we are putting ourselves in a good position. We have got shut of a lot of high earners and dead wood.replacing them with young lads who look decent.we have them on good contracts so if anyone comes in for them as they did Collins we will get a decent fee.the lads on loan look like they have settled in.not this season but next given a good run without injurys we should do ok.
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Post by theonlooker on Feb 3, 2022 18:01:16 GMT
Thanks, with regards to 22/23 (I assume you mean this summer coming up for total clarity?). I've never understood the big buzz around it and how we are going to be able to shift up a gear? Won't our solidarity payments drop to base rate of circa 6M ? At a time when we will need to cover quite a lot of players due to contract expiry? How does that fit into the rolling three year FFP calculation period? It's very rough maths and I hold my hand up completely in the way that I don't understand it one iota. Yes solidarity goes down but on the plus side 1. We get rid of high earners at no cost as their contracts expire and Etebo & Adobe will be in their last year and will have to be more flexible. 2 when we players, their cost is spread over the contract length and there is a.cost each year for FFP. After our spending spree, it would have been £20-25 million this season and next. However we managed to claim a huge Covid write off last year ( saying player values fell due to Covid rather than we have way overpaid). There was only £20m left at the start of last season so with a bit more Covid adjustment, we will be close to no charge going into next season. So despite no parachutes, with revenues of about £22m plus the allowable £13m from the owners, we could have £25m for wages, which is very competitive outside of teams with parachutes, and could spend £10m on fees (assuming 4 year contracts) is £2.5 m a season of accounting cost. We could spend £20m but would be li it if future seasons. If we sell a player that is extra to spend. Because of all this, 2022/23 will be very different financially to recent years. Thanks for the explanation. Much appreciated. Apologies but I have one more question. What is the breakdown of the 22M in revenues? I was under the impression that no parachute payment revenue was circa 6M? Has it changed or have I always assumed incorrectly?
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Post by mtrstudent on Feb 3, 2022 18:32:23 GMT
He's been giving youth a chance TBF. Is that just because the academy is digging up diamonds though? I don't think so. the thing is.. all the shite he goes on about is like he’s trying too persuade people reading it that’s he’s doing all the right things.. but the thing is.. we don’t give a flying fuck about what age an what the dynamic is.. we want too get too the premier league!! quit the fucking bullshit an do your talking on the pitch for christ sake.. I will laugh my tits off if we get even worse with all these players he’s brought in I'm still recovering from the hilarity of Rowett's tens of millions.
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Post by Batfink on Feb 3, 2022 18:36:44 GMT
Why would you laugh if your team failed? I want us too get too the premier league.. that’s not wanting too fail One: it is a strange response to laugh if we get worse. Two. I want us to get promoted too.
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Post by mowlee on Feb 3, 2022 18:50:58 GMT
I want us too get too the premier league.. that’s not wanting too fail One: it is a strange response to laugh if we get worse. Two. I want us to get promoted too. it’s not the point I will laugh.. it’s the point of we don’t even know if it will work with all these new signings.. mons going on about changing dynamics an transitions.. what if it does go tits up.. what’s going too be mons excuse.. time will tell with the 17 games we have left
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Post by Batfink on Feb 3, 2022 18:54:07 GMT
One: it is a strange response to laugh if we get worse. Two. I want us to get promoted too. it’s not the point I will laugh.. it’s the point of we don’t even know if it will work with all these new signings.. mons going on about changing dynamics an transitions.. what if it does go tits up.. what’s going too be mons excuse.. time will tell with the 17 games we have left But surely that’s life. Everything could always go tits up: nothing is guaranteed. You’ll only depress yourself more if you moan before it actually does. Just think though… what if it doesn’t go tits up?
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Post by jokker on Feb 3, 2022 18:59:42 GMT
He's been giving youth a chance TBF. quit the fucking bullshit an do your talking on the pitch for christ sake.. I will laugh my tits off if we get even worse with all these players he’s brought in He gets called up a number of times each day by one or the other Sentinel journos, and the terms of his contract stipulates he must answer no matter how stupid some of their questions are. One time usually he holds a weekly press conference which can be viewed online. There's no obligation for you to read those Sentinel interviews or view the pressers - they're rarely entertaining. Just turn up on matchday and support your team no matter how badly they may do on the day,
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Post by pmjh on Feb 3, 2022 19:09:04 GMT
Why would you laugh if your team failed? I want us too get too the premier league.. that’s not wanting too fail We wouldn't reach the premier league if ' We got even worse'
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Post by pmjh on Feb 3, 2022 19:16:14 GMT
One: it is a strange response to laugh if we get worse. Two. I want us to get promoted too. it’s not the point I will laugh.. it’s the point of we don’t even know if it will work with all these new signings.. mons going on about changing dynamics an transitions.. what if it does go tits up.. what’s going too be mons excuse.. time will tell with the 17 games we have left We've got 18 games left.
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Feb 3, 2022 19:22:08 GMT
When O'Neill took over we were going down to League 1 in part because it was in a delusional state about the realities of it's situation - in particular the squad that went down simply wasn't good enough to provide the basis for an immediate return to the Premiership and neither were the players we brought in to replace the ones that left. We weren't a competent Championship club, let alone one that could mount a serious challenge for promotion. (A good many of the posters on here don't get just how bad we were or how hard it was/is to turn the situation around).
The aim under O'Neill was to save us from relegation (tick), turn us into a competent Championship club (tick) and build a team capable of mounting a sustained promotion challenge and good enough to stay up if we get there (work in progress).
So basically after three and a half seasons of heading in the wrong direction we've turned the corner and finally heading in the right direction.
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Post by chiswickpotter on Feb 3, 2022 19:24:08 GMT
Yes solidarity goes down but on the plus side 1. We get rid of high earners at no cost as their contracts expire and Etebo & Adobe will be in their last year and will have to be more flexible. 2 when we players, their cost is spread over the contract length and there is a.cost each year for FFP. After our spending spree, it would have been £20-25 million this season and next. However we managed to claim a huge Covid write off last year ( saying player values fell due to Covid rather than we have way overpaid). There was only £20m left at the start of last season so with a bit more Covid adjustment, we will be close to no charge going into next season. So despite no parachutes, with revenues of about £22m plus the allowable £13m from the owners, we could have £25m for wages, which is very competitive outside of teams with parachutes, and could spend £10m on fees (assuming 4 year contracts) is £2.5 m a season of accounting cost. We could spend £20m but would be li it if future seasons. If we sell a player that is extra to spend. Because of all this, 2022/23 will be very different financially to recent years. Thanks for the explanation. Much appreciated. Apologies but I have one more question. What is the breakdown of the 22M in revenues? I was under the impression that no parachute payment revenue was circa 6M? Has it changed or have I always assumed incorrectly? I am guessing at gate money £7-8m, TV money (solidarity as you rightly describe it) £6-7m and commercial and sponsorship £8-9m. A big factor for us is the willingness of the owners to fund the additional £13m a season of allowable losses
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Post by leicspotter on Feb 3, 2022 19:25:44 GMT
Why would you laugh if your team failed? I want us too get too the premier league.. that’s not wanting too fail FFS it's to, not too!
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Post by chiswickpotter on Feb 3, 2022 19:26:51 GMT
Yes solidarity goes down but on the plus side 1. We get rid of high earners at no cost as their contracts expire and Etebo & Adobe will be in their last year and will have to be more flexible. 2 when we players, their cost is spread over the contract length and there is a.cost each year for FFP. After our spending spree, it would have been £20-25 million this season and next. However we managed to claim a huge Covid write off last year ( saying player values fell due to Covid rather than we have way overpaid). There was only £20m left at the start of last season so with a bit more Covid adjustment, we will be close to no charge going into next season. So despite no parachutes, with revenues of about £22m plus the allowable £13m from the owners, we could have £25m for wages, which is very competitive outside of teams with parachutes, and could spend £10m on fees (assuming 4 year contracts) is £2.5 m a season of accounting cost. We could spend £20m but would be li it if future seasons. If we sell a player that is extra to spend. Because of all this, 2022/23 will be very different financially to recent years. Thanks for the explanation. Much appreciated. Apologies but I have one more question. What is the breakdown of the 22M in revenues? I was under the impression that no parachute payment revenue was circa 6M? Has it changed or have I always assumed incorrectly? I believe the Bet365 sponsorship has a written requirement for free away travel and season ticket freezes with a payment to compensate for this. It’s very clever
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Post by theonlooker on Feb 3, 2022 19:26:51 GMT
Thanks for the explanation. Much appreciated. Apologies but I have one more question. What is the breakdown of the 22M in revenues? I was under the impression that no parachute payment revenue was circa 6M? Has it changed or have I always assumed incorrectly? I am guessing at gate money £7-8m, TV money (solidarity as you rightly describe it) £6-7m and commercial and sponsorship £8-9m. A big factor for us is the willingness of the owners to fund the additional £13m a season of allowable losses Thanks, I didn't realise that commercial and sponsorship would raise that much? Gate money I had down at around 4-5M with a rough guess of a loss of ST holders and average price of ST (probably a bad guess on my behalf...).
Really appreciate the explanations and the good input into this thread.
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Post by jokker on Feb 3, 2022 19:54:25 GMT
When O'Neill took over we were going down to League 1 in part because it was in a delusional state about the realities of it's situation - in particular the squad that went down simply wasn't good enough to provide the basis for an immediate return to the Premiership and neither were the players we brought in to replace the ones that left. We weren't a competent Championship club, let alone one that could mount a serious challenge for promotion. (A good many of the posters on here don't get just how bad we were or how hard it was/is to turn the situation around). The aim under O'Neill was to save us from relegation (tick), turn us into a competent Championship club (tick) and build a team capable of mounting a sustained promotion challenge and good enough to stay up if we get there (work in progress). So basically after three and a half seasons of heading in the wrong direction we've turned the corner and finally heading in the right direction. We're still closing in on the corner first. We're midtable. It could change, but at the moment it doesn't look like "mounting a sustained promotion challenge". We were in the top 2 not long ago but we didn't have any staying power. We've signed a staggering number of players mid-season, something very few teams do or only those who are desperate to avoid a calamity. We need to know how those new players will fit in and if they will improve on what was left behind by Batth et al, before we can state that we're on the right path. We still have deadwood on our books, though it's reduced heavily.
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Post by mowlee on Feb 3, 2022 20:02:37 GMT
it’s not the point I will laugh.. it’s the point of we don’t even know if it will work with all these new signings.. mons going on about changing dynamics an transitions.. what if it does go tits up.. what’s going too be mons excuse.. time will tell with the 17 games we have left We've got 18 games left. 17 league games
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