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Post by OldStokie on Feb 13, 2022 13:13:32 GMT
Many fans don't see the positives Joe brings to the side. He's damned good at breaking up play and he reads the game well. However, he's as thick as two short planks. The number of times he's made that very same tackle to give the opposition a free kick in a dangerous area is becoming a joke. You'd think he'd learn from it but he hasn't. As a matter of fact both their goals came about as a result of the same repeated errors we've seen throughout the season. How many goals have we conceded because Wilmot has been too far forward and the opposition have played a simple ball into the space he should be occupying? And it's happened when we've played him in a 3 or a four at the back. So, we have two decent players who add to the team but they're not learning from their errors. MON needs to lay down the law to both of them. OS. Absolute rubbish as far as Wilmot as a RB is concerned. You need your full backs to play a big role in your offensive play and help create overloads. You'd obviously prefer a defense consisting of 3 or 4 Danny Batth's who contribute nothing to your attacking game. Defenders generally have a bigger role in the modern game being a stopper is just not enough. They're dissapearing at a rate of knots and so are coaches who think that way. I agree and disagree with you. I agree that Wilmot should play a big role in our offensive play, but not at the expense of abdicating his primary role as a defender. There are two options to overcome him being out of position... 1) If he's incapable of getting back to his position then he shouldn't be attacking. 2) To cater for a defender going forward to bolster the offense, someone has to drop back into his position to nullify any gaps he leaves if the opposition counter attack when we lose the ball upfield as we did yesterday. Number 2 is the obvious answer but we're not doing it. That ball out from Surridge to the space he'd left wide open was perfect. Not only did it give their winger complete freedom to pick his precision pass, it wrong-footed our two central defenders because one was trying to cover for Wilmot's absence. OS.
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Post by owdestokie2 on Feb 13, 2022 15:06:39 GMT
Did he not head over an open goal from 3 yards out? Please watch the whole play and take account of his position to the ball as it came at him, it’s speed etc. The way in which you describe it was that he stood having a clear header from a perfect cross and all he had to do was to direct the ball goal ways. Not as simple as that
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Post by davejohnno1 on Feb 13, 2022 16:44:00 GMT
Did he not head over an open goal from 3 yards out? Please watch the whole play and take account of his position to the ball as it came at him, it’s speed etc. The way in which you describe it was that he stood having a clear header from a perfect cross and all he had to do was to direct the ball goal ways. Not as simple as that Will do Mr Allen 👍
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Post by leesandfordstoupe on Feb 13, 2022 17:12:47 GMT
Absolute rubbish as far as Wilmot as a RB is concerned. You need your full backs to play a big role in your offensive play and help create overloads. You'd obviously prefer a defense consisting of 3 or 4 Danny Batth's who contribute nothing to your attacking game. Defenders generally have a bigger role in the modern game being a stopper is just not enough. They're dissapearing at a rate of knots and so are coaches who think that way. I agree and disagree with you. I agree that Wilmot should play a big role in our offensive play, but not at the expense of abdicating his primary role as a defender. There are two options to overcome him being out of position... 1) If he's incapable of getting back to his position then he shouldn't be attacking. 2) To cater for a defender going forward to bolster the offense, someone has to drop back into his position to nullify any gaps he leaves if the opposition counter attack when we lose the ball upfield as we did yesterday. Number 2 is the obvious answer but we're not doing it. That ball out from Surridge to the space he'd left wide open was perfect. Not only did it give their winger complete freedom to pick his precision pass, it wrong-footed our two central defenders because one was trying to cover for Wilmot's absence. OS. No2 isn't the answer obvious or otherwise. The ovbious answer is when taking risks to get at teams sometimes you're going to get caught out. Unless it's consistently proving your undoing learn to live with it. The alternative is the overly cautious dross that we were producing before the change of formation. We needed to take greater risks to score more goals. The blame game and post mortem after every goal conceded is not productive. Wilmot is doing surprisingly well at right back. Bursik has been perfectly adequate since his return from injury, seen him getting shit too for not producing the perfect response everytime too. We made a draw not because Wilmot was caught out of position, not because Bursik could have done better prior to their equaliser, not even because Joe Allen gave away a typical free kick in a dangerous area. We made a draw because we failed to turn our early domination of the game into goals.
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Post by lordb on Feb 13, 2022 17:30:43 GMT
27, perfect age isn't he? That's older than we seem to be looking at because at 27 they're either rubbish or want more money than we're willing to pay them. I hope we continue with that policy. True However he's not rubbish for sure Move to Bournemouth hasn't worked for him Then it's down to money
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Post by OldStokie on Feb 14, 2022 15:37:15 GMT
I agree and disagree with you. I agree that Wilmot should play a big role in our offensive play, but not at the expense of abdicating his primary role as a defender. There are two options to overcome him being out of position... 1) If he's incapable of getting back to his position then he shouldn't be attacking. 2) To cater for a defender going forward to bolster the offense, someone has to drop back into his position to nullify any gaps he leaves if the opposition counter attack when we lose the ball upfield as we did yesterday. Number 2 is the obvious answer but we're not doing it. That ball out from Surridge to the space he'd left wide open was perfect. Not only did it give their winger complete freedom to pick his precision pass, it wrong-footed our two central defenders because one was trying to cover for Wilmot's absence. OS. No2 isn't the answer obvious or otherwise. The ovbious answer is when taking risks to get at teams sometimes you're going to get caught out. Unless it's consistently proving your undoing learn to live with it. The alternative is the overly cautious dross that we were producing before the change of formation. We needed to take greater risks to score more goals. The blame game and post mortem after every goal conceded is not productive. Wilmot is doing surprisingly well at right back. Bursik has been perfectly adequate since his return from injury, seen him getting shit too for not producing the perfect response everytime too. We made a draw not because Wilmot was caught out of position, not because Bursik could have done better prior to their equaliser, not even because Joe Allen gave away a typical free kick in a dangerous area. We made a draw because we failed to turn our early domination of the game into goals. I disagree. No 2 is the basics and it's called 'rotation'. When you're playing with three at the back and one of your three move right up the pitch to bolster the attack, the defensive midfielder drops back to fill the space he's left. When you're playing four at the back and one of your four move right up the pitch to bolster the attack, then your remaining back three become a proper three at the back or the defensive midfielder drops back to make it a four. If you don't believe me, then ask MON. In his after match comments he said we made an error by leaving that space open without cover. And by the way, I like Wilmot and he'd be in my team every game, but the players around him need to understand that he can't be in two places at the same time. OS.
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Post by lordb on Feb 14, 2022 15:53:35 GMT
No2 isn't the answer obvious or otherwise. The ovbious answer is when taking risks to get at teams sometimes you're going to get caught out. Unless it's consistently proving your undoing learn to live with it. The alternative is the overly cautious dross that we were producing before the change of formation. We needed to take greater risks to score more goals. The blame game and post mortem after every goal conceded is not productive. Wilmot is doing surprisingly well at right back. Bursik has been perfectly adequate since his return from injury, seen him getting shit too for not producing the perfect response everytime too. We made a draw not because Wilmot was caught out of position, not because Bursik could have done better prior to their equaliser, not even because Joe Allen gave away a typical free kick in a dangerous area. We made a draw because we failed to turn our early domination of the game into goals. I disagree. No 2 is the basics and it's called 'rotation'. When you're playing with three at the back and one of your three move right up the pitch to bolster the attack, the defensive midfielder drops back to fill the space he's left. When you're playing four at the back and one of your four move right up the pitch to bolster the attack, then your remaining back three become a proper three at the back or the defensive midfielder drops back to make it a four. If you don't believe me, then ask MON. In his after match comments he said we made an error by leaving that space open without cover. And by the way, I like Wilmot and he'd be in my team every game, but the players around him need to understand that he can't be in two places at the same time. OS. on top of that unless you never allow your defenders (or even midfielders) to attack (a la Pulis) no matter how diligent the other players are at some point your defenders will get caught out too high up the pitch, unrealistic to expect no risks Of course it's all about the balance, if it happens every too much then that's no good we gave very little away on Saturday but still got punished
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Post by leesandfordstoupe on Feb 14, 2022 16:37:41 GMT
No2 isn't the answer obvious or otherwise. The ovbious answer is when taking risks to get at teams sometimes you're going to get caught out. Unless it's consistently proving your undoing learn to live with it. The alternative is the overly cautious dross that we were producing before the change of formation. We needed to take greater risks to score more goals. The blame game and post mortem after every goal conceded is not productive. Wilmot is doing surprisingly well at right back. Bursik has been perfectly adequate since his return from injury, seen him getting shit too for not producing the perfect response everytime too. We made a draw not because Wilmot was caught out of position, not because Bursik could have done better prior to their equaliser, not even because Joe Allen gave away a typical free kick in a dangerous area. We made a draw because we failed to turn our early domination of the game into goals. I disagree. No 2 is the basics and it's called 'rotation'. When you're playing with three at the back and one of your three move right up the pitch to bolster the attack, the defensive midfielder drops back to fill the space he's left. When you're playing four at the back and one of your four move right up the pitch to bolster the attack, then your remaining back three become a proper three at the back or the defensive midfielder drops back to make it a four. If you don't believe me, then ask MON. In his after match comments he said we made an error by leaving that space open without cover. And by the way, I like Wilmot and he'd be in my team every game, but the players around him need to understand that he can't be in two places at the same time. OS. Not really studied the incident but your post suggests you don't actually disagree and that unless Tymon was caught up the pitch at the time that Wilmot was raiding forward we weren't really short handed at the back as even you are agreeing that in a 4 if one of your defenders moves right up the pitch your remaining back 3 can become a proper back 3 or the DM drops in to make it a 4. The first solution would be my preferred option as the DM dropping in doesn't help create overloads as your simply replacing one player beyond the defensive line with another. I'm all for the DM dropping into the defensive line if both full backs go raiding but that's why I wouldn't play a midget at DM.
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Post by apb1 on Feb 14, 2022 16:44:21 GMT
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Post by leesandfordstoupe on Feb 14, 2022 16:58:12 GMT
I think the top and bottom of it is that we needed to take more risks to score more goals to win more games and some supporters just find that hard to accept and have an inquest into every goal we concede. I don't know whether it's just our club and some hangover from the Pulis era but many of our fans seem to think that cautious defensive football is the way forward. I fundamentally disagree.
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Post by klingon on Feb 14, 2022 17:08:40 GMT
[Hidden microphone: Radio Stoke Production office] Nige: "I fucking give up. Can you believe the twats in the "Oativerse", isn't that what they call that shower of shit? They're suggesting that some fucker should have been wearing skates. The only Wilmot I know, is that street down the Road from The Forge in Knutton."
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Post by jeycov on Feb 19, 2022 18:54:44 GMT
Interesting not too many posts today regarding just how well Joe Allen played today
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Post by bayernoatcake on Feb 19, 2022 18:55:25 GMT
He played well today but need to watch the two goals to see where he was.
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Post by peepin on Feb 19, 2022 19:00:02 GMT
Interesting not too many posts today regarding just how well Joe Allen played today I don’t think it’s a coincidence that we have seen Allen playing better since Baker has arrived, they seem to compliment one another (as long as he keeps at least 10 yards away from our own 16 yard box).
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Post by crouchpotato1 on Feb 19, 2022 19:03:37 GMT
Interesting not too many posts today regarding just how well Joe Allen played today They’ll find a way don’t worry
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Post by milky on Feb 19, 2022 19:06:05 GMT
Played well today.
One of our better performers.
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Post by mickstupp on Feb 19, 2022 19:06:12 GMT
He played well today. The less said about his partner in midfield (Clucas) the better.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2022 19:08:46 GMT
He's benefitting from having the quality of Baker in there with him.
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