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Post by silverdollar on Nov 16, 2021 21:59:51 GMT
So Wales have just played the number one country in the World rankings and held them to a draw. Joe Allen played in midfield! Yet there are still some people who think he isn't good enough to play for a Championship side. Well done Wales and Joe Allen!
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Post by iglugluk on Nov 16, 2021 22:03:35 GMT
Decent result.
Strange, that it seems, no other teams offered a decent fee ( if there were any offers at all, that is ) for the World class midfielder we have on our books.
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Post by citynickscfc on Nov 16, 2021 22:04:19 GMT
Decent result. Strange that, it seems, no other teams offered a decent fee ( if there were any offers at all, that is ) for the World class midfielder we have on our books. If only he were given a run of games to show his capabilities |
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Nov 16, 2021 22:13:03 GMT
It's almost like his international performances aren't massively relevant to the discussion...
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Post by prestwichpotter on Nov 16, 2021 22:37:46 GMT
It's almost like his international performances aren't massively relevant to the discussion... They show he’s clearly not “shit” as some on here say he is. He gets accused of lacking discipline and a football brain yet shows it in spades for his country. Ultimately I only really care about his performances in red and white stripes mind….. |
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Nov 16, 2021 22:43:34 GMT
It's almost like his international performances aren't massively relevant to the discussion... They show he’s clearly not “shit” as some on here say he is. He gets accused of lacking discipline and a football brain yet shows it in spades for his country. Ultimately I only really care about his performances in red and white stripes mind….. Your last sentence sums it up though. Whatever the reason for it, he doesn't turn in that kind of performance anything like as often for us as he does for Wales. He often does and has lacked discipline in his performances for us. Whether that's on him or on the instructions or lack thereof from successive managers we don't know. He does sometimes have a run of games where he's exactly what we need him to be, like the Allen/Clucas/Powell balance from Jan - March of 2020 or a few of his games alongside Thompson this season. It's just a shame it never seems to stick. |
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Post by silverdollar on Nov 16, 2021 22:51:59 GMT
Decent result. Strange that, it seems, no other teams offered a decent fee ( if there were any offers at all, that is ) for the World class midfielder we have on our books. At no point have I used the words "World Class" but these World Cup qualifiers are competitive and not just friendlies. Belgium are a World Class Team so we'll done Wales and Joe Allen. |
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Post by kustokie on Nov 16, 2021 23:04:28 GMT
So Wales have just played the number one country in the World rankings and held them to a draw. Joe Allen played in midfield! Yet there are still some people who think he isn't good enough to play for a Championship side. Well done Wales and Joe Allen! As I have said many times, it’s a lot easier to play his style of game when you’re playing alongside players like Bale and Ramsey. He was very good when he first joined Stoke because he was surrounded by very good players and could roam free. Unfortunately that is no longer the case. |
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Post by houstonsteve on Nov 16, 2021 23:08:12 GMT
Sammy McIlroy syndrome.....nothing to see here.
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Post by Gods on Nov 16, 2021 23:19:16 GMT
This guarantees Wales a home tie in the play off.
Truth be told Joe is just about the only player on our books these days outside the environs of ST5 anyone has actually heard of.
Fingers crossed for Joe that he gets to play in the World Cup Finals, I can't think of anyone who deserves the opportunity more, he's an absolute credit to himself and Stoke City.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 16, 2021 23:31:05 GMT
This guarantees Wales a home tie in the play off. Truth be told Joe is just about the only player on our books these days outside the environs of ST5 anyone has actually heard of. Fingers crossed for Joe that he gets to play in the World Cup Finals, I can't think of anyone who deserves the opportunity more, he's an absolute credit to himself and Stoke City. Harry Souttar is quite well known in Australia |
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Post by spitthedog on Nov 16, 2021 23:40:12 GMT
I don't think many consider him to be below Championship standard as is suggested by the OP.
Maybe not good enough for the Prem, but that applies to other players in that team too.
Is Keifer Moore Prem standard, he seems to struggle in the Championship, or Morrell who plays for Portsmouth who has never proven himself above League one standard?
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Post by kustokie on Nov 17, 2021 0:12:59 GMT
I don't think many consider him to be below Championship standard as is suggested by the OP. Maybe not good enough for the Prem, but that applies to other players in that team too. Is Keifer Moore Prem standard, he seems to struggle in the Championship, or Morrell who plays for Portsmouth who has never proven himself above League one standard? Put Allen in the right team with other players that compliment his style of play, he can and did play well for Stoke in the Premier League - other teams not so good. |
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Post by iglugluk on Nov 17, 2021 0:24:35 GMT
I don't think many consider him to be below Championship standard as is suggested by the OP. Maybe not good enough for the Prem, but that applies to other players in that team too. Is Keifer Moore Prem standard, he seems to struggle in the Championship, or Morrell who plays for Portsmouth who has never proven himself above League one standard? Put Allen in the right team with other players that compliment his style of play, he can and did play well for Stoke in the Premier League - other teams not so good. Personally I've never particularly rated Joe Allen in a Stoke shirt other than the odd game here and there and he's generally been somewhat incongruous for us. He hasn't often gelled well with our style. That said I have absolutely no problem with his attitude and clearly successive managers have liked him, although I do wonder if there's a Celtic bias going on with that. It has to be said he looks better for his Country, for whatever reason, be that passion or simply the presence of Bale and Ramsey. Wales are one of those more than the sum of their parts teams.. the exact opposite of Belgium in fact. |
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Post by potterpaul on Nov 17, 2021 4:15:35 GMT
They show he’s clearly not “shit” as some on here say he is. He gets accused of lacking discipline and a football brain yet shows it in spades for his country. Ultimately I only really care about his performances in red and white stripes mind….. Your last sentence sums it up though. Whatever the reason for it, he doesn't turn in that kind of performance anything like as often for us as he does for Wales. He often does and has lacked discipline in his performances for us. Whether that's on him or on the instructions or lack thereof from successive managers we don't know. He does sometimes have a run of games where he's exactly what we need him to be, like the Allen/Clucas/Powell balance from Jan - March of 2020 or a few of his games alongside Thompson this season. It's just a shame it never seems to stick. He does tend to 'show' a bit more just before an international break, then during the break for Wales and then goes back to earning the 'He's Shit' calls. There's a definite pattern emerging |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2021 5:11:01 GMT
So Wales have just played the number one country in the World rankings and held them to a draw. Joe Allen played in midfield! Yet there are still some people who think he isn't good enough to play for a Championship side. Well done Wales and Joe Allen! "Some people" watch him play for Stoke every week, that's the difference. |
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Post by lordb on Nov 17, 2021 7:47:15 GMT
He's a bloody good player... except when he isn't
Shouldn't be inconsistent at his age
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Nov 17, 2021 7:57:30 GMT
So Wales have just played the number one country in the World rankings and held them to a draw. Joe Allen played in midfield! Yet there are still some people who think he isn't good enough to play for a Championship side. Well done Wales and Joe Allen! I'm just amazed we haven't a £40 million bid from a Premier league side. Or any kind of bid for that matter. Anyone would think he's not very good. It's a ridiculous post. It's like when Celtic beat Barcelona a few years ago... All those Celtic players don't suddenly become top players. Tony Watt scored that night...it doesn't make him a good player. Allen has been largely dreadful for us since our final season in the Premier league. A regular feature in a side that has played some of the worst stuff we've seen from a Stoke side in years. |
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Post by reddipotter on Nov 17, 2021 9:43:26 GMT
So Wales have just played the number one country in the World rankings and held them to a draw. Joe Allen played in midfield! Yet there are still some people who think he isn't good enough to play for a Championship side. Well done Wales and Joe Allen! As I have said many times, it’s a lot easier to play his style of game when you’re playing alongside players like Bale and Ramsey. He was very good when he first joined Stoke because he was surrounded by very good players and could roam free. Unfortunately that is no longer the case. I thought Ramsey was quite ordinary last night, and Bale didn’t play so I’m not sure that argument stands up. |
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Post by boskampsflaps on Nov 17, 2021 9:57:21 GMT
So Wales have just played the number one country in the World rankings and held them to a draw. Joe Allen played in midfield! Yet there are still some people who think he isn't good enough to play for a Championship side. Well done Wales and Joe Allen! Yet he doesn't manage it week in week out, he's been a poor signing for us regardless of what he does for Wales. Edit: Are we also still pretending they are worthy of that number one spot without actually winning anything? |
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Post by silverdollar on Nov 17, 2021 10:25:16 GMT
So Wales have just played the number one country in the World rankings and held them to a draw. Joe Allen played in midfield! Yet there are still some people who think he isn't good enough to play for a Championship side. Well done Wales and Joe Allen! As I have said many times, it’s a lot easier to play his style of game when you’re playing alongside players like Bale and Ramsey. He was very good when he first joined Stoke because he was surrounded by very good players and could roam free. Unfortunately that is no longer the case. You are basically talking out of your Arsenal to justify your agenda. Wales played as a team last night and as a team gained a great result! Why can't you swallow your stupid pride and give Allen some credit? |
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Post by silverdollar on Nov 17, 2021 10:26:45 GMT
So Wales have just played the number one country in the World rankings and held them to a draw. Joe Allen played in midfield! Yet there are still some people who think he isn't good enough to play for a Championship side. Well done Wales and Joe Allen! I'm just amazed we haven't a £40 million bid from a Premier league side. Or any kind of bid for that matter. Anyone would think he's not very good. It's a ridiculous post. It's like when Celtic beat Barcelona a few years ago... All those Celtic players don't suddenly become top players. Tony Watt scored that night...it doesn't make him a good player. Allen has been largely dreadful for us since our final season in the Premier league. A regular feature in a side that has played some of the worst stuff we've seen from a Stoke side in years. You're talking crap! |
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Post by iglugluk on Nov 17, 2021 10:40:13 GMT
I'm just amazed we haven't a £40 million bid from a Premier league side. Or any kind of bid for that matter. Anyone would think he's not very good. It's a ridiculous post. It's like when Celtic beat Barcelona a few years ago... All those Celtic players don't suddenly become top players. Tony Watt scored that night...it doesn't make him a good player. Allen has been largely dreadful for us since our final season in the Premier league. A regular feature in a side that has played some of the worst stuff we've seen from a Stoke side in years. You're talking crap! A well reasoned out argument. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2021 10:48:10 GMT
I don't think many consider him to be below Championship standard as is suggested by the OP. Maybe not good enough for the Prem, but that applies to other players in that team too. Is Keifer Moore Prem standard, he seems to struggle in the Championship, or Morrell who plays for Portsmouth who has never proven himself above League one standard? Put Allen in the right team with other players that compliment his style of play, he can and did play well for Stoke in the Premier League - other teams not so good. That team that got relegated, you mean? |
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Post by silverdollar on Nov 17, 2021 11:44:18 GMT
A well reasoned out argument. Look after 55 years of involvement at many levels of football right through to the top level I do recognise when someone is talking crap! |
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Nov 17, 2021 11:50:44 GMT
A well reasoned out argument. Look after 55 years of involvement at many levels of football right through to the top level I do recognise when someone is talking crap! Would you say the Joe Allen performance last night was typical of his performances week in, week out for Stoke? Same style, same kind of stuff done well, same kind of positioning and strengths? |
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Post by silverdollar on Nov 17, 2021 12:01:45 GMT
Look after 55 years of involvement at many levels of football right through to the top level I do recognise when someone is talking crap! Would you say the Joe Allen performance last night was typical of his performances week in, week out for Stoke? Same style, same kind of stuff done well, same kind of positioning and strengths? I am a Stoke season ticket holder and have seen Joe Allen play numerous times for Stoke City through good and bad times for the club. His contribution to our team has been magnificent and a tremendous example on and off the pitch. He is not world class by any means but you are guaranteed effort, energy and endeavour whenever he plays. It is no mystery that it has led him to be the Captain at the club. He has fought back to full fitness from a dreadful injury. He has helped Wales qualify for the play offs in the World Cup qualifiers and was not a passenger in the team. They have managed to draw against the World's number one team. You need to get real! |
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Post by pez75 on Nov 17, 2021 12:10:47 GMT
Don't bother mate, in true Oatcake fashion people have nailed their colours to the mast and won't even consider being reasonable. Joe is one of the last remaining players from the relegation season so it was obviously all his fault and will remain so forever.
Allen is one of Stoke's better players, anyone with a slight interest in football (apart from a few myopic Stoke fans) would agree. I have also seen Joe play for Wales many times and he effectively plays the same role as he does for Stoke so the 'different job' argument doesn't wash. Nor does the 'better players are carrying him' argument because a fair few of the Wales squad are not that good, and Bale and Ramsey rarely play together consistently.
As for Stoke, they cannot seem to handle that even the best players occasionally have dips in form (even though Joe's have been few and far between over the years), and when they have labelled them 'wank' then any poor play is exagerrated and magnified to outweigh any positive contribution, otherwise they may have to retract previous opinions (call it 'Bayernoatcake syndrome'). He may have a good game overall, but they will only discuss the 2 misplaced passes or the silly fouls etc.
It is indicative of today's social media culture - you have to be extremely partisan on any opinion and once you side one way, there is no going back. There have been no rabid attacks on Joe for a few weeks now, but you can bet that a certain few are just bottling up their anger waiting for him to make a significant mistake or just have a poor game...
A fellow Stoke fan and sometime Joe-basher I follow on twitter recently posted his admiration of Jordan Thompson's contribution at the start of the fine team move that resulting in the winning goal at Luton - only to be informed that it was actually Joe Allen (doing some midfield work that Thompson could only dream of). Would he have posted the same message had he realised at the start who it actually was?
It is rare that players who are 'shit' or have 'poor discipline' play as many games or stay at a club as long as Allen has at Stoke. It's all about opinions and everyone is entitled to their own but Christ some people need to use a bit of objectivity.
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Post by spitthedog on Nov 17, 2021 12:11:53 GMT
Would you say the Joe Allen performance last night was typical of his performances week in, week out for Stoke? Same style, same kind of stuff done well, same kind of positioning and strengths? I am a Stoke season ticket holder and have seen Joe Allen play numerous times for Stoke City through good and bad times for the club. His contribution to our team has been magnificent and a tremendous example on and off the pitch. He is not world class by any means but you are guaranteed effort, energy and endeavour whenever he plays. It is no mystery that it has led him to be the Captain at the club. He has fought back to full fitness from a dreadful injury. He has helped Wales qualify for the play offs in the World Cup qualifiers and was not a passenger in the team. They have managed to draw against the World's number one team. You need to get real! Maybe you need to accept that others just see it a bit differently, and maybe have the humility to accept that others also have at least as much ability to understand the game of football too, but come to different conclusions. Ok you love Joe Allen, fair enough....I think we get it! |
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Nov 17, 2021 12:15:00 GMT
Would you say the Joe Allen performance last night was typical of his performances week in, week out for Stoke? Same style, same kind of stuff done well, same kind of positioning and strengths? I am a Stoke season ticket holder and have seen Joe Allen play numerous times for Stoke City through good and bad times for the club. His contribution to our team has been magnificent and a tremendous example on and off the pitch. He is not world class by any means but you are guaranteed effort, energy and endeavour whenever he plays. It is no mystery that it has led him to be the Captain at the club. He has fought back to full fitness from a dreadful injury. He has helped Wales qualify for the play offs in the World Cup qualifiers and was not a passenger in the team. They have managed to draw against the World's number one team. You need to get real! None of that really answers my question though, does it? Aren't effort and endeavour essentially the same thing, if not fairly similar? Energy and effort is great but you need more than that, especially in our midfield. I don't see how him fighting back to full fitness (he's a professional sportsman, so yeah) or being a part of a team that drew with Belgium is relevant really? |
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