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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Nov 17, 2021 16:43:34 GMT
Numerous players are better for their country than for their club. Michael Owen became a meme over it. It is a thing. It's a fallacy that he hasn't played with positional discipline for Stoke? So why isn't he universally adored then, if he's doing his job consistently and to a high level? I believe he was much better playing just behind the cf in Hughes’s 4-2-3-1 when he had the freedom to roam around, pick up loose balls or drift into poach goals. He was MON more than once in that position. He had been much less effective post Hughes because successive managers have overrated his ability as either a creative midfield player or a defensive midfield player. I think you pretty much capture it. He had that brief run of games with Clucas and Powell when MON first got us playing well when he was consistently playing exactly as we needed him to, and then he got injured. Since he's been back he's been hit and miss - against West Brom he was excellent scrapping alongside Thompson and they shared that DM stuff out between them. When he's bad though he's very bad indeed.
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Post by PotterLog on Nov 17, 2021 16:45:26 GMT
Joe Allen.
Occasionally capable of being quite good, but is mostly quite crap.
Night night
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Post by iglugluk on Nov 17, 2021 17:26:08 GMT
Harry Maguire is good for England but absolute muck for United, it’s the same story with Joe Allen for Wales. He’s been absolute dogshit for Stoke, he cannot pass, can’t tackle, can’t control a football, can’t maintain his position, he doesn’t score, he doesn’t assist many and neither is he adept at breaking up the play, he is absolutely useless and a nothing footballer and the day he finally departs from this football club will be one of the happiest days in my lifetime of watching Stoke. His spell at this football club has been nothing short of an unmitigated disaster and his inclusion within the team has completely unbalanced it on every single outing, indeed when he was out injured the midfield actually looked like a cohesive unit, and he’s been a mainstay in a team that only just avoided falling down the trapdoor into the third tier, but he’s a class footballer apparently. The fact he is still with us so many years after relegation is tantamount to how good of a player he actually is, we managed to find suitors for utter shithouses like Berahino, Imbula and Kevin Wimmer, but no-one wanted Allen, there’s a damning indictment for you as a player, Kevin Wimmer gets a club but no one wants to buy you. Our club has largely been absolutely toilet since relegation, only showing signs of resurgence this season, and Joe Allen is a whopping floater that just won’t flush. I wonder if you can have treatment or is there any medicines that you can be prescribed that might help you with all the dilutions you are suffering from. I think you should perhaps stay away that might cure your number one dilution that you believe you are a Stoke supporter! Im not saying I agree with all of what is written there ( the timeline has some veracity, though, certainly) but I do admire the strength of opinion However if you are going to pull the high hat on another poster at least use the word you actually want/mean to use.. it's delusion not 'dilution'.
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Post by silverdollar on Nov 17, 2021 18:54:51 GMT
Do you actually read what you write? Joe Allen is an International Football Player and by Welsh standards has been successful especially against Belgium. He has successfully overcome a serious injury and is a regular in Stoke's first team who by their standards are performing consistently well in the Championship. The MANAGER and the rest of the players have elected him to be the club Captain. So what are you saying? That he's consistently good for Stoke because something something Wales? Reading into what I previously said it appears to me that many people in high positions working in prominent roles clearly show that they admire Joe and that they are willing to place great faith in him.
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Post by sheds1862 on Nov 17, 2021 19:00:15 GMT
Whilst undoubtedly losing wasn't on the agenda , just how bothered were Belgium really ?
A bit like Denmark against the Sweaties.
All the hard work had already been done by Belgium, so in effect a pretty nothing match for them
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Nov 17, 2021 19:10:54 GMT
So what are you saying? That he's consistently good for Stoke because something something Wales? Reading into what I previously said it appears to me that many people in high positions working in prominent roles clearly show that they admire Joe and that they are willing to place great faith in him. So again, if he does the business for Wales are you saying that must automatically mean he consistently plays well for Stoke? Are we supposed to not believe what our eyes are telling us when our midfield gets diddled and we’re chasing shadows against pretty mediocre opposition?
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Nov 17, 2021 19:13:19 GMT
I'm just amazed we haven't a £40 million bid from a Premier league side. Or any kind of bid for that matter. Anyone would think he's not very good. It's a ridiculous post. It's like when Celtic beat Barcelona a few years ago... All those Celtic players don't suddenly become top players. Tony Watt scored that night...it doesn't make him a good player. Allen has been largely dreadful for us since our final season in the Premier league. A regular feature in a side that has played some of the worst stuff we've seen from a Stoke side in years. You're talking crap! No - you're talking crap.
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Post by scfc75 on Nov 17, 2021 19:17:16 GMT
I’d love to understand what it is that us as fans see, that the management don’t. Or vice versa. Because when he’s fit, he generally plays - he’s rarely a sub but when he is, he comes on. And when he starts, he usually lasts the full 90.
Personally, I don’t think he deserves as much abuse as he gets from some, but at the same time I don’t think I’ve seen enough quality to justify him being almost an ever-present.
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Post by greystokie on Nov 17, 2021 20:23:23 GMT
I’d love to understand what it is that us as fans see, that the management don’t. Or vice versa. Because when he’s fit, he generally plays - he’s rarely a sub but when he is, he comes on. And when he starts, he usually lasts the full 90. Personally, I don’t think he deserves as much abuse as he gets from some, but at the same time I don’t think I’ve seen enough quality to justify him being almost an ever-present. I certainly think MON has something of a blind spot regarding JA. I also think he gets selected regularly because he is perceived as one of the very few midfielders on our books with any defensive ability (not much, in my opinion, by the way) I haven't troubled to check the actual statistics but I don't recall seeing JA get consistently high numbers in the "Rate the Players" threads that follow each game. I know that those who claim to have seen it all and done it all in football might argue that the average fan is unqualified to judge but if JA was as good as some are saying then surely it would be easy for anyone to spot his supposed talent. I think you could probably guess I'm not a fan. 😕
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Post by silverdollar on Nov 17, 2021 20:58:29 GMT
Reading into what I previously said it appears to me that many people in high positions working in prominent roles clearly show that they admire Joe and that they are willing to place great faith in him. So again, if he does the business for Wales are you saying that must automatically mean he consistently plays well for Stoke? Are we supposed to not believe what our eyes are telling us when our midfield gets diddled and we’re chasing shadows against pretty mediocre opposition? You use the word "us" but actually your opinion should read "I". I personally believe that Joe Allen plays consistently well in Stoke team. Your opinion is that he doesn't play well. You are entitled to that belief! Unfortunately for you, you are wrong!
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Post by maine on Nov 17, 2021 21:13:28 GMT
If Joe was to read most of the negative stuff posters regurgitate here, surely he'd deeply regret turning down the chance to return home to Swansea. Not only would he be appreciated far more there, he'd have had a fair chance of having helped get them back in the PL.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Nov 17, 2021 21:15:04 GMT
So again, if he does the business for Wales are you saying that must automatically mean he consistently plays well for Stoke? Are we supposed to not believe what our eyes are telling us when our midfield gets diddled and we’re chasing shadows against pretty mediocre opposition? You use the word "us" but actually your opinion should read "I". I personally believe that Joe Allen plays consistently well in Stoke team. Your opinion is that he doesn't play well. You are entitled to that belief! Unfortunately for you, you are wrong! It would only be 'I' if I was alone in my belief, which this thread rather suggests I'm not. Here's the thing, given your amazing level of experience and superior footballing expertise, why not talk us through what he does so well when he plays for Stoke or why those criticisms of him are inaccurate? Why not talk us through how this apparently consistent, top level performer hasn't been snapped up by a bigger fish when others plying their trade at this level have? What's that all about?
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Nov 17, 2021 21:16:23 GMT
If Joe was to read most of the negative stuff posters regurgitate here, surely he'd deeply regret turning down the chance to return home to Swansea. Not only would he be appreciated far more there, he'd have had a fair chance of having helped get them back in the PL. Would this be 12th placed Swansea, with five fewer points than us?
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Post by stokefc on Nov 17, 2021 21:20:53 GMT
If Joe was to read most of the negative stuff posters regurgitate here, surely he'd deeply regret turning down the chance to return home to Swansea. Not only would he be appreciated far more there, he'd have had a fair chance of having helped get them back in the PL. Why do you think people post negative stuff , he would be appreciated more if played consistenty well but he doesn't imo
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Post by Bojan Mackey on Nov 17, 2021 21:24:16 GMT
You use the word "us" but actually your opinion should read "I". I personally believe that Joe Allen plays consistently well in Stoke team. Your opinion is that he doesn't play well. You are entitled to that belief! Unfortunately for you, you are wrong! It would only be 'I' if I was alone in my belief, which this thread rather suggests I'm not. Here's the thing, given your amazing level of experience and superior footballing expertise, why not talk us through what he does so well when he plays for Stoke or why those criticisms of him are inaccurate? Why not talk us through how this apparently consistent, top level performer hasn't been snapped up by a bigger fish when others plying their trade at this level have? What's that all about? You won’t get an answer from this high and mighty fuckwit, just that you’re unintelligent and wrong.
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Post by Sfance on Nov 17, 2021 21:38:52 GMT
I don’t think there are many Joe-supporters on here who would claim he’s without flaws, but since MON’s job depends on who he picks for the team (and captain), I think he should be allowed some deference. (I didn’t think that when he kept throwing the Wardrobe on. That was just bad management!!) I think Joe is fine for now. A darn sight better than Clucas, that’s for sure.
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Post by maine on Nov 17, 2021 22:04:32 GMT
'Toxic avenger said--
maine said: 'If Joe was to read most of the negative stuff posters regurgitate here, surely he'd deeply regret turning down the chance to return home to Swansea. Not only would he be appreciated far more there, he'd have had a fair chance of having helped get them back in the PL.'
"Would this be 12th placed Swansea, with five fewer points than us?"
No, It would be be the Swansea who with fewer resources than us, made the playoffs for the last two seasons.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Nov 17, 2021 22:16:42 GMT
'Toxic avenger said-- maine said: 'If Joe was to read most of the negative stuff posters regurgitate here, surely he'd deeply regret turning down the chance to return home to Swansea. Not only would he be appreciated far more there, he'd have had a fair chance of having helped get them back in the PL.' "Would this be 12th placed Swansea, with five fewer points than us?" No, It would be be the Swansea who with fewer resources than us, made the playoffs for the last two seasons. Ah, so you mean he'd wish he'd gone back to Swansea in one of those seasons. He wouldn't be the only one.
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Post by spitthedog on Nov 17, 2021 22:51:49 GMT
At the risk of trying to touch some middle ground here. I will be a bit surprised if Joe Allen will look back at his years at Stoke with a whole lot of pride and satisfaction tbh. It's not gone to plan and that's an understatement. I don't think he could just point the finger and say it was everyone else's fault either, just like its unfair to point the finger at Joe Allen and make out its all on him. He sometimes looks way above this level. A decent player who has struggled to be consistent and often struggled to adapt to the Championship in an unsettled squad would be my overall summary, but if he leads us to promotion than that would be a massive payback and help to shape the way he is perceived amongst fans. It must make a huge difference playing with Ramsay, as say compared to playing with Sam Clucas. Do you actually read what you write? Joe Allen is an International Football Player and by Welsh standards has been successful especially against Belgium. He has successfully overcome a serious injury and is a regular in Stoke's first team who by their standards are performing consistently well in the Championship. The MANAGER and the rest of the players have elected him to be the club Captain. That's hilarious. 'has been successful especially against Belgium' is a classic Its just a shame that is Stoke career has been a bit of a car crash.
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Post by spitthedog on Nov 17, 2021 22:56:17 GMT
I’d love to understand what it is that us as fans see, that the management don’t. Or vice versa. Because when he’s fit, he generally plays - he’s rarely a sub but when he is, he comes on. And when he starts, he usually lasts the full 90. Personally, I don’t think he deserves as much abuse as he gets from some, but at the same time I don’t think I’ve seen enough quality to justify him being almost an ever-present. I don't think he gets abuse at all, just sighs of disappointment when the ball bounces off him, or gets knocked off the ball by a rank average Championship midfielder. He's still one of our better midfielders though. Our midfield has been our biggest problem for years....ironically about the last 5 years
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Post by thevoid on Nov 18, 2021 10:31:53 GMT
So Wales have just played the number one country in the World rankings and held them to a draw. Joe Allen played in midfield! Yet there are still some people who think he isn't good enough to play for a Championship side. Well done Wales and Joe Allen! I remember Luxembourg holding France to a draw in Paris a few years ago. These things happen.
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Post by iglugluk on Nov 18, 2021 10:53:35 GMT
So Wales have just played the number one country in the World rankings and held them to a draw. Joe Allen played in midfield! Yet there are still some people who think he isn't good enough to play for a Championship side. Well done Wales and Joe Allen! I remember Luxembourg holding France to a draw in Paris a few years ago. These things happen. Good point, didn't England lose 1-0 to the USA in the 50's? .. they were just a bunch of amateurs. More recently, 2016, we lost to Iceland in what was a very important game too. Yeah you're quite right there, these things do happen. The Wales game was essentially a dead rubber to Belgium anyway.
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Post by iglugluk on Nov 20, 2021 20:37:13 GMT
Excellent win today.. 3 in a row! Wow!! But I never got to see the game today so I'd like to ask a question. Did our club captain Joe Allen represent us well on the pitch today, given his international credentials?
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Post by lordb on Nov 20, 2021 20:44:19 GMT
Excellent win today.. 3 in a row! Wow!! But I never got to see the game today so I'd like to ask a question. Did our club captain Joe Allen represent us well on the pitch today, given his international credentials? No he was poor If Thompson or Clucas were available I think Allen would have been rested and we would probably have benefitted from that with a refreshed Allen for Bristol City
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Post by foxysgloves on Nov 20, 2021 21:23:05 GMT
Any chance he was was a bit jaded today after the shift he put in for Wales?
On top of the ridiculous number of games we’ve played in league and cup already?
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Post by holdmedelilah on Nov 20, 2021 21:28:52 GMT
Any chance he was was a bit jaded today after the shift he put in for Wales? On top of the ridiculous number of games we’ve played in league and cup already? I’m convinced you’re on the money. He gives his all for Wales…in training to make it into the team and then in the games. It’s more of an acknowledgment than a criticism - he’s no spring chicken and at this stage of his career it’s understandable that it has an impact when he returns to us.
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Post by foxysgloves on Nov 20, 2021 21:30:29 GMT
Any chance he was was a bit jaded today after the shift he put in for Wales? On top of the ridiculous number of games we’ve played in league and cup already? I’m convinced you’re on the money. He gives his all for Wales…in training to make it into the team and then in the games. It’s more of an acknowledgment than a criticism - he’s no spring chicken and at this stage of his career it’s understandable that it has an impact when he returns to us. He is what he is. A decent honest player. Best years behind him but still prone to the occasional flashes of quality. He’s a bit like Stoke City in fact.
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Post by foxysgloves on Nov 20, 2021 21:31:27 GMT
On a different note. Was it Joe who put the tackle in before Ty’s goal?
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Post by bojanihilate on Nov 20, 2021 21:35:04 GMT
On a different note. Was it Joe who put the tackle in before Ty’s goal? no vrancic
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Post by foxysgloves on Nov 20, 2021 21:38:27 GMT
On a different note. Was it Joe who put the tackle in before Ty’s goal? no vrancic 👍
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