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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Nov 17, 2021 12:16:11 GMT
Don't bother mate, in true Oatcake fashion people have nailed their colours to the mast and won't even consider being reasonable. Joe is one of the last remaining players from the relegation season so it was obviously all his fault and will remain so forever. Allen is one of Stoke's better players, anyone with a slight interest in football (apart from a few myopic Stoke fans) would agree. I have also seen Joe play for Wales many times and he effectively plays the same role as he does for Stoke so the 'different job' argument doesn't wash. Nor does the 'better players are carrying him' argument because a fair few of the Wales squad are not that good, and Bale and Ramsey rarely play together consistently. As for Stoke, they cannot seem to handle that even the best players occasionally have dips in form (even though Joe's have been few and far between over the years), and when they have labelled them 'wank' then any poor play is exagerrated and magnified to outweigh any positive contribution, otherwise they may have to retract previous opinions (call it 'Bayernoatcake syndrome'). He may have a good game overall, but they will only discuss the 2 misplaced passes or the silly fouls etc. It is indicative of today's social media culture - you have to be extremely partisan on any opinion and once you side one way, there is no going back. There have been no rabid attacks on Joe for a few weeks now, but you can bet that a certain few are just bottling up their anger waiting for him to make a significant mistake or just have a poor game... A fellow Stoke fan and sometime Joe-basher I follow on twitter recently posted his admiration of Jordan Thompson's contribution at the start of the fine team move that resulting in the winning goal at Luton - only to be informed that it was actually Joe Allen (doing some midfield work that Thompson could only dream of). Would he have posted the same message had he realised at the start who it actually was? It is rare that players who are 'shit' or have 'poor discipline' play as many games or stay at a club as long as Allen has at Stoke. It's all about opinions and everyone is entitled to their own but Christ some people need to use a bit of objectivity. You've equally nailed your colours to the mast haven't you? You're as partisan, only in the other direction?
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Post by pez75 on Nov 17, 2021 12:16:11 GMT
Look after 55 years of involvement at many levels of football right through to the top level I do recognise when someone is talking crap! Would you say the Joe Allen performance last night was typical of his performances week in, week out for Stoke? Same style, same kind of stuff done well, same kind of positioning and strengths? Of course - why would he play any different?
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Nov 17, 2021 12:32:00 GMT
Would you say the Joe Allen performance last night was typical of his performances week in, week out for Stoke? Same style, same kind of stuff done well, same kind of positioning and strengths? Of course - why would he play any different? Well a number of reasons, really. Maybe he's asked to perform a different role? Maybe he's more switched on playing for Wales or even international football? His own role as a player has changed over the years after all, the Joe Allen who was at Swansea isn't the same player style-wise who was at Liverpool and neither version is the one we've had either. Surely if it's all just a mean-minded, myopic conspiracy from Stoke fans, we'd have seen Allen performing as one of the top midfielders in the Championship and faced a fight to keep him over the past few years since relegation? He hasn't played with anything like the positional discipline or guile for Stoke, for the most part, that he has for Wales.
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Post by pez75 on Nov 17, 2021 12:41:55 GMT
Don't bother mate, in true Oatcake fashion people have nailed their colours to the mast and won't even consider being reasonable. Joe is one of the last remaining players from the relegation season so it was obviously all his fault and will remain so forever. Allen is one of Stoke's better players, anyone with a slight interest in football (apart from a few myopic Stoke fans) would agree. I have also seen Joe play for Wales many times and he effectively plays the same role as he does for Stoke so the 'different job' argument doesn't wash. Nor does the 'better players are carrying him' argument because a fair few of the Wales squad are not that good, and Bale and Ramsey rarely play together consistently. As for Stoke, they cannot seem to handle that even the best players occasionally have dips in form (even though Joe's have been few and far between over the years), and when they have labelled them 'wank' then any poor play is exagerrated and magnified to outweigh any positive contribution, otherwise they may have to retract previous opinions (call it 'Bayernoatcake syndrome'). He may have a good game overall, but they will only discuss the 2 misplaced passes or the silly fouls etc. It is indicative of today's social media culture - you have to be extremely partisan on any opinion and once you side one way, there is no going back. There have been no rabid attacks on Joe for a few weeks now, but you can bet that a certain few are just bottling up their anger waiting for him to make a significant mistake or just have a poor game... A fellow Stoke fan and sometime Joe-basher I follow on twitter recently posted his admiration of Jordan Thompson's contribution at the start of the fine team move that resulting in the winning goal at Luton - only to be informed that it was actually Joe Allen (doing some midfield work that Thompson could only dream of). Would he have posted the same message had he realised at the start who it actually was? It is rare that players who are 'shit' or have 'poor discipline' play as many games or stay at a club as long as Allen has at Stoke. It's all about opinions and everyone is entitled to their own but Christ some people need to use a bit of objectivity. You've equally nailed your colours to the mast haven't you? You're as partisan, only in the other direction? I wasn't expecting that... In answer to your question - not really. I am not a member of any Joe Allen fanclub, I just think that the criticism and vitriol he gets at times is unbalanced and unjustified, especially compared to others. As I said - objectivity.
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Post by wakefieldstokie on Nov 17, 2021 12:42:38 GMT
Generally Joe is a solid player, harshly treated sometimes. However the last couple of showings for Stoke he's been invisible really, contributed little. He's clearly capable of better but he's not showing it at Stoke for me this season.
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Post by pez75 on Nov 17, 2021 12:45:17 GMT
Of course - why would he play any different? Well a number of reasons, really. Maybe he's asked to perform a different role? Maybe he's more switched on playing for Wales or even international football? His own role as a player has changed over the years after all, the Joe Allen who was at Swansea isn't the same player style-wise who was at Liverpool and neither version is the one we've had either. Surely if it's all just a mean-minded, myopic conspiracy from Stoke fans, we'd have seen Allen performing as one of the top midfielders in the Championship and faced a fight to keep him over the past few years since relegation? He hasn't played with anything like the positional discipline or guile for Stoke, for the most part, that he has for Wales. It's a fallacy. Even if that was true, that is down to the manager - which gaffer worth his salt would keep playing someone who ignores his instructions? - Rubbish. "Oooh, I'm putting my Wales top on, going to really make an effort tonight" - more rubbish.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Nov 17, 2021 12:45:18 GMT
You've equally nailed your colours to the mast haven't you? You're as partisan, only in the other direction? I wasn't expecting that... In answer to your question - not really. I am not a member of any Joe Allen fanclub, I just think that the criticism and vitriol he gets at times is unbalanced and unjustified, especially compared to others. As I said - objectivity. Behave, you're always one of the first on here to insist he's great and anyone who thinks otherwise is part of some kind of one-eyed conspiracy against him. 'Objectivity' would be accepting he's crap sometimes, as Allen himself has done on more than one occasion.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Nov 17, 2021 12:47:40 GMT
Well a number of reasons, really. Maybe he's asked to perform a different role? Maybe he's more switched on playing for Wales or even international football? His own role as a player has changed over the years after all, the Joe Allen who was at Swansea isn't the same player style-wise who was at Liverpool and neither version is the one we've had either. Surely if it's all just a mean-minded, myopic conspiracy from Stoke fans, we'd have seen Allen performing as one of the top midfielders in the Championship and faced a fight to keep him over the past few years since relegation? He hasn't played with anything like the positional discipline or guile for Stoke, for the most part, that he has for Wales. It's a fallacy. Even if that was true, that is down to the manager - which gaffer worth his salt would keep playing someone who ignores his instructions? - Rubbish. "Oooh, I'm putting my Wales top on, going to really make an effort tonight" - more rubbish. Numerous players are better for their country than for their club. Michael Owen became a meme over it. It is a thing. It's a fallacy that he hasn't played with positional discipline for Stoke? So why isn't he universally adored then, if he's doing his job consistently and to a high level?
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Post by OldStokie on Nov 17, 2021 13:24:14 GMT
Joe is Mr Marmite on here. Joe is a very good player but anyone who thinks that, at times, he's hasn't had periods of dross is fooling themselves. For Stoke, he's blown hot and cold ever since he arrived, which is why he's Mr Marmite. When he plays for Wales he's pretty much consistently top drawer. But I would expect that. Any player who pulls on the jersey of his home nation should play with more than a positive attitude... they should play with a heart bursting with pride. Joe does that. And whether you like the Taffs or not, they're a proud nation of people. I like Joe and having worked with a lot of Taffs, I like them too. So I have no axe to grind with Joe but neither am I blind to the difference as a player he is when he plays for Wales or for a club where he earns his brass. Given that he's top drawer when he plays for Wales, a host of Prem managers should be queueing at the door to take him off us. They aren't, are they? Answer that question as to why that is and you can see why this board is divided over him.
OS.
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Post by spitthedog on Nov 17, 2021 13:56:36 GMT
You've equally nailed your colours to the mast haven't you? You're as partisan, only in the other direction? I wasn't expecting that... In answer to your question - not really. I am not a member of any Joe Allen fanclub, I just think that the criticism and vitriol he gets at times is unbalanced and unjustified, especially compared to others. As I said - objectivity. I think that's called subjective objectivity
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Post by maine on Nov 17, 2021 14:10:43 GMT
Pez75 said 'Don't bother mate, in true Oatcake fashion people have nailed their colours to the mast and won't even consider being reasonable. Joe is one of the last remaining players from the relegation season so it was obviously all his fault and will remain so forever.
Allen is one of Stoke's better players, anyone with a slight interest in football (apart from a few myopic Stoke fans) would agree. I have also seen Joe play for Wales many times and he effectively plays the same role as he does for Stoke so the 'different job' argument doesn't wash. Nor does the 'better players are carrying him' argument because a fair few of the Wales squad are not that good, and Bale and Ramsey rarely play together consistently.
As for Stoke, they cannot seem to handle that even the best players occasionally have dips in form (even though Joe's have been few and far between over the years), and when they have labelled them 'wank' then any poor play is exagerrated and magnified to outweigh any positive contribution, otherwise they may have to retract previous opinions (call it 'Bayernoatcake syndrome'). He may have a good game overall, but they will only discuss the 2 misplaced passes or the silly fouls etc.
It is indicative of today's social media culture - you have to be extremely partisan on any opinion and once you side one way, there is no going back. There have been no rabid attacks on Joe for a few weeks now, but you can bet that a certain few are just bottling up their anger waiting for him to make a significant mistake or just have a poor game...
A fellow Stoke fan and sometime Joe-basher I follow on twitter recently posted his admiration of Jordan Thompson's contribution at the start of the fine team move that resulting in the winning goal at Luton - only to be informed that it was actually Joe Allen (doing some midfield work that Thompson could only dream of). Would he have posted the same message had he realised at the start who it actually was?
It is rare that players who are 'shit' or have 'poor discipline' play as many games or stay at a club as long as Allen has at Stoke. It's all about opinions and everyone is entitled to their own but Christ some people need to use a bit of objectivity.'
This deserves more than just a 'like'. This is a pretty perfect assessment.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Nov 17, 2021 14:18:04 GMT
Pez75 said 'Don't bother mate, in true Oatcake fashion people have nailed their colours to the mast and won't even consider being reasonable. Joe is one of the last remaining players from the relegation season so it was obviously all his fault and will remain so forever. Allen is one of Stoke's better players, anyone with a slight interest in football (apart from a few myopic Stoke fans) would agree. I have also seen Joe play for Wales many times and he effectively plays the same role as he does for Stoke so the 'different job' argument doesn't wash. Nor does the 'better players are carrying him' argument because a fair few of the Wales squad are not that good, and Bale and Ramsey rarely play together consistently. As for Stoke, they cannot seem to handle that even the best players occasionally have dips in form (even though Joe's have been few and far between over the years), and when they have labelled them 'wank' then any poor play is exagerrated and magnified to outweigh any positive contribution, otherwise they may have to retract previous opinions (call it 'Bayernoatcake syndrome'). He may have a good game overall, but they will only discuss the 2 misplaced passes or the silly fouls etc. It is indicative of today's social media culture - you have to be extremely partisan on any opinion and once you side one way, there is no going back. There have been no rabid attacks on Joe for a few weeks now, but you can bet that a certain few are just bottling up their anger waiting for him to make a significant mistake or just have a poor game... A fellow Stoke fan and sometime Joe-basher I follow on twitter recently posted his admiration of Jordan Thompson's contribution at the start of the fine team move that resulting in the winning goal at Luton - only to be informed that it was actually Joe Allen (doing some midfield work that Thompson could only dream of). Would he have posted the same message had he realised at the start who it actually was? It is rare that players who are 'shit' or have 'poor discipline' play as many games or stay at a club as long as Allen has at Stoke. It's all about opinions and everyone is entitled to their own but Christ some people need to use a bit of objectivity.' This deserves more than just a 'like'. This is a pretty perfect assessment. So Joe Allen has only ever had the 'odd occasional dip in form' in five years at Stoke?
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Post by silverdollar on Nov 17, 2021 14:46:54 GMT
I am a Stoke season ticket holder and have seen Joe Allen play numerous times for Stoke City through good and bad times for the club. His contribution to our team has been magnificent and a tremendous example on and off the pitch. He is not world class by any means but you are guaranteed effort, energy and endeavour whenever he plays. It is no mystery that it has led him to be the Captain at the club. He has fought back to full fitness from a dreadful injury. He has helped Wales qualify for the play offs in the World Cup qualifiers and was not a passenger in the team. They have managed to draw against the World's number one team. You need to get real! Maybe you need to accept that others just see it a bit differently, and maybe have the humility to accept that others also have at least as much ability to understand the game of football too, but come to different conclusions. Ok you love Joe Allen, fair enough....I think we get it! When I look back the time I have spent teaching, coaching, playing, managing, scouting, watching, washing, cutting and marking and being educated in all aspects of football over more than half a century I apologise if I come over as an opinionated individual. You need to realise,yes,I am opionated. But you need to realise also That generally I consider myself correct.
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Post by Gods on Nov 17, 2021 14:55:14 GMT
I'd be interested to see a list of Stoke players in our current squad who would have got 132 games for Liverpool over 4 seasons ? Names below please...
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Post by iglugluk on Nov 17, 2021 15:01:44 GMT
Maybe you need to accept that others just see it a bit differently, and maybe have the humility to accept that others also have at least as much ability to understand the game of football too, but come to different conclusions. Ok you love Joe Allen, fair enough....I think we get it! When I look back the time I have spent teaching, coaching, playing, managing, scouting, watching, washing, cutting and marking and being educated in all aspects of football over more than half a century I apologise if I come over as an opinionated individual. You need to realise,yes,I am opionated. But you need to realise also That generally I consider myself correct. Yes that is coming across, good on you for admitting it Pretty much as clearly as it's obvious Joe is particularly inspired by wearing his nation's shirt.. and that's perfectly fine too ..particularly if one supports Wales
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Nov 17, 2021 15:02:37 GMT
I'd be interested to see a list of Stoke players in our current squad who would have got 132 games for Liverpool over 4 seasons ? Even Shaqiri only managed 63 in 3 seasons. Joining the pantheon of all-time Stoke City greats like Michael Owen, Glen Johnson and Dominic Matteo...
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Post by iglugluk on Nov 17, 2021 15:05:44 GMT
I'd be interested to see a list of Stoke players in our current squad who would have got 132 games for Liverpool over 4 seasons ? Even Shaqiri only managed 63 in 3 seasons. Joining the pantheon of all-time Stoke City greats like Michael Owen, Glen Johnson and Dominic Matteo... Jonathan Woodgate and Darren Fletcher had pretty decent spells at a few BIG clubs too
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Post by Gods on Nov 17, 2021 15:10:10 GMT
I'd be interested to see a list of Stoke players in our current squad who would have got 132 games for Liverpool over 4 seasons ? Even Shaqiri only managed 63 in 3 seasons. Joining the pantheon of all-time Stoke City greats like Michael Owen, Glen Johnson and Dominic Matteo... 'Current squad' Joe was 26 when he joined us from Liverpool, Owen and Johnson were finished and on a final pay day and ditto Matteo who had 4 clubs between Liverpool and ourselves
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Post by Bojan Mackey on Nov 17, 2021 15:13:17 GMT
Harry Maguire is good for England but absolute muck for United, it’s the same story with Joe Allen for Wales.
He’s been absolute dogshit for Stoke, he cannot pass, can’t tackle, can’t control a football, can’t maintain his position, he doesn’t score, he doesn’t assist many and neither is he adept at breaking up the play, he is absolutely useless and a nothing footballer and the day he finally departs from this football club will be one of the happiest days in my lifetime of watching Stoke.
His spell at this football club has been nothing short of an unmitigated disaster and his inclusion within the team has completely unbalanced it on every single outing, indeed when he was out injured the midfield actually looked like a cohesive unit, and he’s been a mainstay in a team that only just avoided falling down the trapdoor into the third tier, but he’s a class footballer apparently.
The fact he is still with us so many years after relegation is tantamount to how good of a player he actually is, we managed to find suitors for utter shithouses like Berahino, Imbula and Kevin Wimmer, but no-one wanted Allen, there’s a damning indictment for you as a player, Kevin Wimmer gets a club but no one wants to buy you.
Our club has largely been absolutely toilet since relegation, only showing signs of resurgence this season, and Joe Allen is a whopping floater that just won’t flush.
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Post by crouchpotato1 on Nov 17, 2021 15:16:31 GMT
Harry Maguire is good for England but absolute muck for United, it’s the same story with Joe Allen for Wales. He’s been absolute dogshit for Stoke, he cannot pass, can’t tackle, can’t control a football, can’t maintain his position, he doesn’t score, he doesn’t assist many and neither is he adept at breaking up the play, he is absolutely useless and a nothing footballer and the day he finally departs from this football club will be one of the happiest days in my lifetime of watching Stoke. His spell at this football club has been nothing short of an unmitigated disaster and his inclusion within the team has completely unbalanced it on every single outing, indeed when he was out injured the midfield actually looked like a cohesive unit, and he’s been a mainstay in a team that only just avoided falling down the trapdoor into the third tier, but he’s a class footballer apparently. The fact he is still with us so many years after relegation is tantamount to how good of a player he actually is, we managed to find suitors for utter shithouses like Berahino, Imbula and Kevin Wimmer, but no-one wanted Allen, there’s a damning indictment for you as a player, Kevin Wimmer gets a club but no one wants to buy you. Our club has largely been absolutely toilet since relegation, only showing signs of resurgence this season, and Joe Allen is a whopping floater that just won’t flush. What a pathetic post🙄Good god
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Nov 17, 2021 15:21:36 GMT
Joining the pantheon of all-time Stoke City greats like Michael Owen, Glen Johnson and Dominic Matteo... 'Current squad' Joe was 26 when he joined us from Liverpool, Owen and Johnson were finished and on a final pay day and ditto Matteo who had 4 clubs between Liverpool and ourselves The point I was making was that what he did for Liverpool (and as a squad player at a lesser version of Liverpool, you may remember them from such success stories as Stoke City 6-1 Liverpool) is neither here nor there when it comes to his Stoke career. Are we supposed to tell ourselves our eyes are deceiving us when Cardiff's shufflers are dominating the midfield because Joe's played at the Bernabeu seven years ago?
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Post by silverdollar on Nov 17, 2021 15:21:37 GMT
Harry Maguire is good for England but absolute muck for United, it’s the same story with Joe Allen for Wales. He’s been absolute dogshit for Stoke, he cannot pass, can’t tackle, can’t control a football, can’t maintain his position, he doesn’t score, he doesn’t assist many and neither is he adept at breaking up the play, he is absolutely useless and a nothing footballer and the day he finally departs from this football club will be one of the happiest days in my lifetime of watching Stoke. His spell at this football club has been nothing short of an unmitigated disaster and his inclusion within the team has completely unbalanced it on every single outing, indeed when he was out injured the midfield actually looked like a cohesive unit, and he’s been a mainstay in a team that only just avoided falling down the trapdoor into the third tier, but he’s a class footballer apparently. The fact he is still with us so many years after relegation is tantamount to how good of a player he actually is, we managed to find suitors for utter shithouses like Berahino, Imbula and Kevin Wimmer, but no-one wanted Allen, there’s a damning indictment for you as a player, Kevin Wimmer gets a club but no one wants to buy you. Our club has largely been absolutely toilet since relegation, only showing signs of resurgence this season, and Joe Allen is a whopping floater that just won’t flush. I wonder if you can have treatment or is there any medicines that you can be prescribed that might help you with all the dilutions you are suffering from. I think you should perhaps stay away that might cure your number one dilution that you believe you are a Stoke supporter!
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Post by Bojan Mackey on Nov 17, 2021 15:22:50 GMT
Harry Maguire is good for England but absolute muck for United, it’s the same story with Joe Allen for Wales. He’s been absolute dogshit for Stoke, he cannot pass, can’t tackle, can’t control a football, can’t maintain his position, he doesn’t score, he doesn’t assist many and neither is he adept at breaking up the play, he is absolutely useless and a nothing footballer and the day he finally departs from this football club will be one of the happiest days in my lifetime of watching Stoke. His spell at this football club has been nothing short of an unmitigated disaster and his inclusion within the team has completely unbalanced it on every single outing, indeed when he was out injured the midfield actually looked like a cohesive unit, and he’s been a mainstay in a team that only just avoided falling down the trapdoor into the third tier, but he’s a class footballer apparently. The fact he is still with us so many years after relegation is tantamount to how good of a player he actually is, we managed to find suitors for utter shithouses like Berahino, Imbula and Kevin Wimmer, but no-one wanted Allen, there’s a damning indictment for you as a player, Kevin Wimmer gets a club but no one wants to buy you. Our club has largely been absolutely toilet since relegation, only showing signs of resurgence this season, and Joe Allen is a whopping floater that just won’t flush. I wonder if you can have treatment or is there any medicines that you can be prescribed that might help you with all the dilutions you are suffering from. I think you should perhaps stay away that might cure your number one dilution that you believe you are a Stoke supporter! Can’t you cure me with your half century of football knowledge you sanctimonious minge?
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Post by spitthedog on Nov 17, 2021 15:25:42 GMT
Harry Maguire is good for England but absolute muck for United, it’s the same story with Joe Allen for Wales. He’s been absolute dogshit for Stoke, he cannot pass, can’t tackle, can’t control a football, can’t maintain his position, he doesn’t score, he doesn’t assist many and neither is he adept at breaking up the play, he is absolutely useless and a nothing footballer and the day he finally departs from this football club will be one of the happiest days in my lifetime of watching Stoke. His spell at this football club has been nothing short of an unmitigated disaster and his inclusion within the team has completely unbalanced it on every single outing, indeed when he was out injured the midfield actually looked like a cohesive unit, and he’s been a mainstay in a team that only just avoided falling down the trapdoor into the third tier, but he’s a class footballer apparently. The fact he is still with us so many years after relegation is tantamount to how good of a player he actually is, we managed to find suitors for utter shithouses like Berahino, Imbula and Kevin Wimmer, but no-one wanted Allen, there’s a damning indictment for you as a player, Kevin Wimmer gets a club but no one wants to buy you. Our club has largely been absolutely toilet since relegation, only showing signs of resurgence this season, and Joe Allen is a whopping floater that just won’t flush. What a pathetic post🙄Good god from one extreme to another I would say......the story of the Oatcake? I suppose it pretty much supports the notion that Joe Allen is our Marmite though
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Post by crouchpotato1 on Nov 17, 2021 15:26:46 GMT
What a pathetic post🙄Good god from one extreme to another I would say......the story of the Oatcake! Yes middle ground certainly isn’t common place on here😄
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Post by spitthedog on Nov 17, 2021 15:39:46 GMT
Pez75 said 'Don't bother mate, in true Oatcake fashion people have nailed their colours to the mast and won't even consider being reasonable. Joe is one of the last remaining players from the relegation season so it was obviously all his fault and will remain so forever. Allen is one of Stoke's better players, anyone with a slight interest in football (apart from a few myopic Stoke fans) would agree. I have also seen Joe play for Wales many times and he effectively plays the same role as he does for Stoke so the 'different job' argument doesn't wash. Nor does the 'better players are carrying him' argument because a fair few of the Wales squad are not that good, and Bale and Ramsey rarely play together consistently. As for Stoke, they cannot seem to handle that even the best players occasionally have dips in form (even though Joe's have been few and far between over the years), and when they have labelled them 'wank' then any poor play is exagerrated and magnified to outweigh any positive contribution, otherwise they may have to retract previous opinions (call it 'Bayernoatcake syndrome'). He may have a good game overall, but they will only discuss the 2 misplaced passes or the silly fouls etc. It is indicative of today's social media culture - you have to be extremely partisan on any opinion and once you side one way, there is no going back. There have been no rabid attacks on Joe for a few weeks now, but you can bet that a certain few are just bottling up their anger waiting for him to make a significant mistake or just have a poor game... A fellow Stoke fan and sometime Joe-basher I follow on twitter recently posted his admiration of Jordan Thompson's contribution at the start of the fine team move that resulting in the winning goal at Luton - only to be informed that it was actually Joe Allen (doing some midfield work that Thompson could only dream of). Would he have posted the same message had he realised at the start who it actually was? It is rare that players who are 'shit' or have 'poor discipline' play as many games or stay at a club as long as Allen has at Stoke. It's all about opinions and everyone is entitled to their own but Christ some people need to use a bit of objectivity.' This deserves more than just a 'like'. This is a pretty perfect assessment. So Joe Allen has only ever had the 'odd occasional dip in form' in five years at Stoke? At the risk of trying to touch some middle ground here. I will be a bit surprised if Joe Allen will look back at his years at Stoke with a whole lot of pride and satisfaction tbh. It's not gone to plan and that's an understatement. I don't think he could just point the finger and say it was everyone else's fault either, just like its unfair to point the finger at Joe Allen and make out its all on him. He sometimes looks way above this level. A decent player who has struggled to be consistent and often struggled to adapt to the Championship in an unsettled squad would be my overall summary, but if he leads us to promotion than that would be a massive payback and help to shape the way he is perceived amongst fans. It must make a huge difference playing with Ramsay, as say compared to playing with Sam Clucas.
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Post by silverdollar on Nov 17, 2021 16:10:28 GMT
So Joe Allen has only ever had the 'odd occasional dip in form' in five years at Stoke? At the risk of trying to touch some middle ground here. I will be a bit surprised if Joe Allen will look back at his years at Stoke with a whole lot of pride and satisfaction tbh. It's not gone to plan and that's an understatement. I don't think he could just point the finger and say it was everyone else's fault either, just like its unfair to point the finger at Joe Allen and make out its all on him. He sometimes looks way above this level. A decent player who has struggled to be consistent and often struggled to adapt to the Championship in an unsettled squad would be my overall summary, but if he leads us to promotion than that would be a massive payback and help to shape the way he is perceived amongst fans. It must make a huge difference playing with Ramsay, as say compared to playing with Sam Clucas. Do you actually read what you write? Joe Allen is an International Football Player and by Welsh standards has been successful especially against Belgium. He has successfully overcome a serious injury and is a regular in Stoke's first team who by their standards are performing consistently well in the Championship. The MANAGER and the rest of the players have elected him to be the club Captain.
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Post by redwhite on Nov 17, 2021 16:11:14 GMT
Whether he’s a good player who can’t do it for Stoke or whether he’s just a poor player is a fairly irrelevant debate.
However to suggest that he has been consistently good for Stoke over the last 5 years is to completely rewrite history. We have been on a downward spiral since he joined (with the exception, arguably, of this season) and relatively speaking we are a fairly shit team.
He has never looked like a beacon of light in that shit team and has in fact very often been amongst our worst performers. Nobody in their right mind can watch a string of Stoke games and conclude “they’re shit, but at least they have Joe Allen”.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Nov 17, 2021 16:27:45 GMT
At the risk of trying to touch some middle ground here. I will be a bit surprised if Joe Allen will look back at his years at Stoke with a whole lot of pride and satisfaction tbh. It's not gone to plan and that's an understatement. I don't think he could just point the finger and say it was everyone else's fault either, just like its unfair to point the finger at Joe Allen and make out its all on him. He sometimes looks way above this level. A decent player who has struggled to be consistent and often struggled to adapt to the Championship in an unsettled squad would be my overall summary, but if he leads us to promotion than that would be a massive payback and help to shape the way he is perceived amongst fans. It must make a huge difference playing with Ramsay, as say compared to playing with Sam Clucas. Do you actually read what you write? Joe Allen is an International Football Player and by Welsh standards has been successful especially against Belgium. He has successfully overcome a serious injury and is a regular in Stoke's first team who by their standards are performing consistently well in the Championship. The MANAGER and the rest of the players have elected him to be the club Captain. So what are you saying? That he's consistently good for Stoke because something something Wales?
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Post by kustokie on Nov 17, 2021 16:38:53 GMT
It's a fallacy. Even if that was true, that is down to the manager - which gaffer worth his salt would keep playing someone who ignores his instructions? - Rubbish. "Oooh, I'm putting my Wales top on, going to really make an effort tonight" - more rubbish. Numerous players are better for their country than for their club. Michael Owen became a meme over it. It is a thing. It's a fallacy that he hasn't played with positional discipline for Stoke? So why isn't he universally adored then, if he's doing his job consistently and to a high level? I believe he was much better playing just behind the cf in Hughes’s 4-2-3-1 when he had the freedom to roam around, pick up loose balls or drift into poach goals. He was MON more than once in that position. He had been much less effective post Hughes because successive managers have overrated his ability as either a creative midfield player or a defensive midfield player.
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