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Post by bigjohnritchie on Jun 3, 2021 18:36:11 GMT
Why can't football come up with its own, unique, method of conveying the anti racism message? Southgate says fans don't understand, I think he has a point. Fans don't understand why football has taken on an overtly political stance when it could, should, have taken on an overtly anti racist stance. The game united with the keep off social media initiative, so it shouldn't be that difficult to come up with something that all players can get behind and make their point Isn't this what Partick referred to a few posts back....KICK IT OUT.... In my opinion that is non divisive, non political and had the potential to bring people together. Fans, players and the clubs accepted it. Which was a great achievement. Unfortunately, in my opinion, some people and organisations are not really interested in bringing people together / harmony but rather conflict and antagonism.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jun 3, 2021 18:36:50 GMT
It’s possible to divorce it from BLM the organisation though and the players themselves have been at pains to do precisely that. People don’t forget though rightly or wrongly. People calling them “racist” because they’re unwilling to change their initial views doesn’t help matters either. It just stokes the fire more. This is why a new initiative of unity is a win win. Taking the knee divides too many people. It’s too easy too call people racist who won’t kneel or boo it when they’re reasons are never listened too. I wouldn’t boo people taking the knee but I wouldn’t kneel either. I would however wear a t-shirt or wristband promoting unity and equality. Now that’s something everyone could get behind unless they truly were racist. It’s not so much about being unwilling to change their initial views as about refusing to even consider the message the players themselves are sending, which is something different. If you still boo having heard that, it’s at the very least ignorant.
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Jun 3, 2021 18:43:05 GMT
Of course, but the problem is they have done it surreptitiously and many media outlets have taken glee at the opportunity to frame the typical football crowd as racist Neanderthals. And up until very recently the BLM iconography was still blazoned on the screen. Its a right mess now as taking the knee will forever be linked to BLM Inc. It needs to be consigned to history as all it will do now is increase the divide. So much for unity. Come up with other more positive strategies and stop piggy backing on an event that took place thousands of miles away that does not accurately reflect British society. Again though, to me booing a gesture of support for black footballers (which is what the players themselves see it as) doesn’t seem a particularly clear way of protesting against being seen as a racist Neanderthal. It’s fine to not agree with it but being motivated to boo shows a total disregard for the players themselves and I’d have thought that was more important than whatever noise Sky and whoever are making? It’s a tough one mate. To me fans are booing because it’s a pointless exercise at a football match, politics should have no place in football. And it is a completely redundant gesture now. Do people watch football and when players kneel think “oh that reminds me, I must educate myself on racism in society”. My opinion rightly or wrongly is that these footballers are continuing to kneel because they’re told to, I don’t think there’s any doubt about that. And hey they’re paid tens of thousand pounds a week so it’s a small price to pay for them. Online racial abuse is a completely different matter and I don’t know why if footballers feel so strongly about it don’t just delete their accounts. It’s not like there aren’t any other formats to engage with supporters if that’s what they want.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jun 3, 2021 18:48:31 GMT
Again though, to me booing a gesture of support for black footballers (which is what the players themselves see it as) doesn’t seem a particularly clear way of protesting against being seen as a racist Neanderthal. It’s fine to not agree with it but being motivated to boo shows a total disregard for the players themselves and I’d have thought that was more important than whatever noise Sky and whoever are making? It’s a tough one mate. To me fans are booing because it’s a pointless exercise at a football match, politics should have no place in football. And it is a completely redundant gesture now. Do people watch football and when players kneel think “oh that reminds me, I must educate myself on racism in society”. My opinion rightly or wrongly is that these footballers are continuing to kneel because they’re told to, I don’t think there’s any doubt about that. And hey they’re paid tens of thousand pounds a week so it’s a small price to pay for them. Online racial abuse is a completely different matter and I don’t know why if footballers feel so strongly about it don’t just delete their accounts. It’s not like there aren’t any other formats to engage with supporters if that’s what they want. Numerous footballers have actually come out and explained what the gesture in this context is though and some have talked about how the booing hurts them. I can see the argument that it’s become a hollow gesture but football is full of them and they’re not all booed. The pre-match handshake is a meaningless, empty gesture, nobody is motivated to boo that - there’s more to the booing than that. Hypothetical scenario - were a Stoke player to come out and ask fans not to boo taking the knee at games or to say they felt hurt by his own fans booing it - would you think that was a reasonable request? With online abuse, why should they have to delete their accounts? What should happen is every single scumbag who sends racist abuse should be named and shamed as publicly as possible.
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Post by Boothen on Jun 3, 2021 18:48:39 GMT
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Post by cobhamstokey on Jun 3, 2021 18:52:45 GMT
People don’t forget though rightly or wrongly. People calling them “racist” because they’re unwilling to change their initial views doesn’t help matters either. It just stokes the fire more. This is why a new initiative of unity is a win win. Taking the knee divides too many people. It’s too easy too call people racist who won’t kneel or boo it when they’re reasons are never listened too. I wouldn’t boo people taking the knee but I wouldn’t kneel either. I would however wear a t-shirt or wristband promoting unity and equality. Now that’s something everyone could get behind unless they truly were racist. It’s not so much about being unwilling to change their initial views as about refusing to even consider the message the players themselves are sending, which is something different. If you still boo having heard that, it’s at the very least ignorant. People are stubborn though aren’t they. We’re all guilty of it at various levels.People don’t like admitting theyre wrong or changing a view if it feels forced. The fact that not one footballer initially refused to kneel says something surely. If the crowds are split re their views how come every footballer in every league agrees with it. You’d expect their to be at least a small minority by averages that wouldn’t do it. I think it’s that feeling that there’s a false narrative rather than the feeling that the players have a choice has an effect too on the fans doing the same. It’s a very difficult situation that will never be resolved until an alternative is looked for. People won’t change and the boo’s will continue if not get worse and the divide will get bigger. Fans will start fighting amongst each other. This is why unity needs promoting.
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Post by thevoid on Jun 3, 2021 18:55:37 GMT
Is that not wilful ignorance on their part though, to ignore what the players themselves have actually said and what it means to them and instead ascribe it to something else? It smacks of looking for a reason to boo it, which is a bit sinister to me. I'll tell you what is really sinister is an incident happening thousands of miles away in a different country that results in the football authorities, Sky, BT etc in the UK jumping feet first into support of an organisation with very dubious aims. And we have to watch our players, to some their heroes, bending a knee to it all, because in the first instance they were coerced into it. That's how it all started, it was BLM Inc all the way. Oh I know they have quietly tried to change recent history and alter the narrative along the way because they knew they had dropped a bollock by joining forces with an organisation they didn't understand. But facts are facts, this is what they did and it pissed a lot of people off. And now they have the nerve to condemn people who are still pissed even though they have quietly changed the narrative. Yeah ok. They had the chance to do something with the advancement of Kick It Out during this time but they went for the big draw BLM movement. A movement that cares mostly about black lives harmed by white men, which incidentally is fair enough, its their right to campaign for what they want in a "free" society but make that mission statement clear and maybe make your name a bit more honest. They seem to care very little about black men gunning one another down hourly all across America as I never hear them talking or campaigning about that. So which black lives matter most to them? Shouldn't they care equally for all black lives? I thought equality was all the rage nowadays. But whatever ones view, politics should have no place in sport. It will ruin it, guaranteed. Whatever next a pre match Jig to combat the gender pay gap. I won't boo at a match but I won't be moaning about anyone who does. That's their choice and they are entitled to it and it doesn't make them a racist. This ⬆️
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jun 3, 2021 18:59:07 GMT
It’s not so much about being unwilling to change their initial views as about refusing to even consider the message the players themselves are sending, which is something different. If you still boo having heard that, it’s at the very least ignorant. People are stubborn though aren’t they. We’re all guilty of it at various levels.People don’t like admitting theyre wrong or changing a view if it feels forced. The fact that not one footballer initially refused to kneel says something surely. If the crowds are split re their views how come every footballer in every league agrees with it. You’d expect their to be at least a small minority by averages that wouldn’t do it. I think it’s that feeling that there’s a false narrative rather than the feeling that the players have a choice has an effect too on the fans doing the same. It’s a very difficult situation that will never be resolved until an alternative is looked for. People won’t change and the boo’s will continue if not get worse and the divide will get bigger. Fans will start fighting amongst each other. This is why unity needs promoting. But then some came out and said they wouldn’t be doing it anymore. It evolved. And again, nobody’s saying it has to be agreed with or even supported, but being motivated to boo it suggests something deeper. And if someone is too ‘stubborn’ to still want to boo it after players have come out and said it affects them negatively then they’re a wanker.
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Jun 3, 2021 19:00:30 GMT
It’s a tough one mate. To me fans are booing because it’s a pointless exercise at a football match, politics should have no place in football. And it is a completely redundant gesture now. Do people watch football and when players kneel think “oh that reminds me, I must educate myself on racism in society”. My opinion rightly or wrongly is that these footballers are continuing to kneel because they’re told to, I don’t think there’s any doubt about that. And hey they’re paid tens of thousand pounds a week so it’s a small price to pay for them. Online racial abuse is a completely different matter and I don’t know why if footballers feel so strongly about it don’t just delete their accounts. It’s not like there aren’t any other formats to engage with supporters if that’s what they want. Numerous footballers have actually come out and explained what the gesture in this context is though and some have talked about how the booing hurts them. I can see the argument that it’s become a hollow gesture but football is full of them and they’re not all booed. The pre-match handshake is a meaningless, empty gesture, nobody is motivated to boo that - there’s more to the booing than that. Hypothetical scenario - were a Stoke player to come out and ask fans not to boo taking the knee at games or to say they felt hurt by his own fans booing it - would you think that was a reasonable request? With online abuse, why should they have to delete their accounts? What should happen is every single scumbag who sends racist abuse should be named and shamed as publicly as possible. You make some good points and I’m happy to agree with the majority of them. Apart from the gentlemen’s handshake of course😏. I dunno I just think it’s all so far down a rabbit hole it just doesn’t make any sense to carry on with it. As for deleting accounts, you’re right, they shouldn’t have to but I’m so anti social media I don’t see why people use it so it’s easy for me to say🤷🏻♂️.
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Post by cobhamstokey on Jun 3, 2021 19:24:42 GMT
People are stubborn though aren’t they. We’re all guilty of it at various levels.People don’t like admitting theyre wrong or changing a view if it feels forced. The fact that not one footballer initially refused to kneel says something surely. If the crowds are split re their views how come every footballer in every league agrees with it. You’d expect their to be at least a small minority by averages that wouldn’t do it. I think it’s that feeling that there’s a false narrative rather than the feeling that the players have a choice has an effect too on the fans doing the same. It’s a very difficult situation that will never be resolved until an alternative is looked for. People won’t change and the boo’s will continue if not get worse and the divide will get bigger. Fans will start fighting amongst each other. This is why unity needs promoting. But then some came out and said they wouldn’t be doing it anymore. It evolved. And again, nobody’s saying it has to be agreed with or even supported, but being motivated to boo it suggests something deeper. And if someone is too ‘stubborn’ to still want to boo it after players have come out and said it affects them negatively then they’re a wanker. Maybe so but that initial memory will still rankle with some hence why can’t an alternative be found when it’s patently obvious not everyone will get behind the knee.
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Post by metalhead on Jun 3, 2021 19:27:07 GMT
Paul Joseph Watson... I'm out.
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Jun 3, 2021 20:09:25 GMT
People are stubborn though aren’t they. We’re all guilty of it at various levels.People don’t like admitting theyre wrong or changing a view if it feels forced. The fact that not one footballer initially refused to kneel says something surely. If the crowds are split re their views how come every footballer in every league agrees with it. You’d expect their to be at least a small minority by averages that wouldn’t do it. I think it’s that feeling that there’s a false narrative rather than the feeling that the players have a choice has an effect too on the fans doing the same. It’s a very difficult situation that will never be resolved until an alternative is looked for. People won’t change and the boo’s will continue if not get worse and the divide will get bigger. Fans will start fighting amongst each other. This is why unity needs promoting. But then some came out and said they wouldn’t be doing it anymore. It evolved. And again, nobody’s saying it has to be agreed with or even supported, but being motivated to boo it suggests something deeper. And if someone is too ‘stubborn’ to still want to boo it after players have come out and said it affects them negatively then they’re a wanker. And name me a white player who would say "I'm not bothered about the booing, let em express their feelings, free country and all that" They have to toe the line they have been told/coerced to toe. Don't imagine they want to upset their sponsors or the TV people who ultimately control the purse strings. This issue is littered with a coercion imported from a country and an incident and a highly dubious organisation that had nothing whatsoever to do with Britain. It is forced group think. And it stinks if you ask me.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jun 3, 2021 20:15:49 GMT
But then some came out and said they wouldn’t be doing it anymore. It evolved. And again, nobody’s saying it has to be agreed with or even supported, but being motivated to boo it suggests something deeper. And if someone is too ‘stubborn’ to still want to boo it after players have come out and said it affects them negatively then they’re a wanker. And name me a white player who would say "I'm not bothered about the booing, let em express their feelings, free country and all that" They have to toe the line they have been told/coerced to toe. Don't imagine they want to upset their sponsors or the TV people who ultimately control the purse strings. This issue is littered with a coercion imported from a country and an incident and a highly dubious organisation that had nothing whatsoever to do with Britain. It is forced group think. And it stinks if you ask me. That’s not actually true though is it? Numerous players have said they’re going to stop doing it for their own personal reasons. Are you saying none of the black players who have expressed their disappointment with the booing genuinely feel that way?
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Post by prestwichpotter on Jun 3, 2021 21:58:29 GMT
Uses the word “literally” way too often. It’s a no from me......
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Post by spitthedog on Jun 3, 2021 22:05:04 GMT
But then some came out and said they wouldn’t be doing it anymore. It evolved. And again, nobody’s saying it has to be agreed with or even supported, but being motivated to boo it suggests something deeper. And if someone is too ‘stubborn’ to still want to boo it after players have come out and said it affects them negatively then they’re a wanker. And name me a white player who would say "I'm not bothered about the booing, let em express their feelings, free country and all that" They have to toe the line they have been told/coerced to toe. Don't imagine they want to upset their sponsors or the TV people who ultimately control the purse strings. This issue is littered with a coercion imported from a country and an incident and a highly dubious organisation that had nothing whatsoever to do with Britain. It is forced group think. And it stinks if you ask me. The problem is there is absolutely no evidence for this. I think a white player wouldn't say this mainly because they feel it would totally disrespectful to their teammates who are on the end of racist abuse virtually every time they play on a football pitch.
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Post by thevoid on Jun 4, 2021 6:35:30 GMT
TAA got quite the round of applause considering there were so many racists in the ground.
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Post by cobhamstokey on Jun 4, 2021 6:48:37 GMT
What is obvious from this thread though is how nice it is to see good healthy debate without the thread turning into abuse and wild accusations. Long may it continue.
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Jun 4, 2021 7:02:38 GMT
What is obvious from this thread though is how nice it is to see good healthy debate without the thread turning into abuse and wild accusations. Long may it continue. It’d be 10 pages long now if the 3 amigos were still around.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2021 7:09:14 GMT
“BLM” is a genius name really considering it’s a political movement with some clear policies. So if you strongly disagree with the idea of defunding police etc, and then it becomes “oh so you DON’T believe BLM then huh!?”. It’s very cynical and deliberate. Do Black Lives Matter? Obviously...find me someone who doesn’t agree with that statement in a vacuum. Fuck BLM the political movement though.
(Interestingly I can’t type Black Lives Matter without my iPhone auto capitalising)
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Post by leicspotter on Jun 4, 2021 7:15:44 GMT
Why can't football come up with its own, unique, method of conveying the anti racism message? Southgate says fans don't understand, I think he has a point. Fans don't understand why football has taken on an overtly political stance when it could, should, have taken on an overtly anti racist stance. The game united with the keep off social media initiative, so it shouldn't be that difficult to come up with something that all players can get behind and make their point Isn't this what Partick referred to a few posts back....KICK IT OUT.... In my opinion that is non divisive, non political and had the potential to bring people together. Fans, players and the clubs accepted it. Which was a great achievement. Unfortunately, in my opinion, some people and organisations are not really interested in bringing people together / harmony but rather conflict and antagonism. I think the problem with Kick it Out is that it didn't have the on field / on TV impact. It was a flag and some armbands and seemed detached from the players themselves, almost "too organised", too contrived, a bit like the pre match handshake ritual that always looks so half hearted. If the players could come up with something more, dare I say it, authentic looking, I feel it would resonate more. To see players both black and white, on the pitch, before kick off, doing something to demonstrate their togetherness on this issue might really bring the message home. Maybe they could have all the black players from one side cross the half way line and embrace the white players form the other, and vice versa, prior to kick off...and act like they really mean it ?
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Post by felonious on Jun 4, 2021 7:17:39 GMT
Why can't football come up with its own, unique, method of conveying the anti racism message? Southgate says fans don't understand, I think he has a point. Fans don't understand why football has taken on an overtly political stance when it could, should, have taken on an overtly anti racist stance. The game united with the keep off social media initiative, so it shouldn't be that difficult to come up with something that all players can get behind and make their point Isn't this what Partick referred to a few posts back....KICK IT OUT.... In my opinion that is non divisive, non political and had the potential to bring people together. Fans, players and the clubs accepted it. Which was a great achievement. Unfortunately, in my opinion, some people and organisations are not really interested in bringing people together / harmony but rather conflict and antagonism. ...... and to my knowledge it's universally accepted, has a clear message and doesn't get booed.
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Post by cobhamstokey on Jun 4, 2021 8:03:31 GMT
Isn't this what Partick referred to a few posts back....KICK IT OUT.... In my opinion that is non divisive, non political and had the potential to bring people together. Fans, players and the clubs accepted it. Which was a great achievement. Unfortunately, in my opinion, some people and organisations are not really interested in bringing people together / harmony but rather conflict and antagonism. ...... and to my knowledge it's universally accepted, has a clear message and doesn't get booed. Which is exactly why it doesn’t have the impact because people universally agree with it. If it was pushed more eg more flags a unity gesture (players linking arms) you would have a very popular initiative.
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Post by spitthedog on Jun 4, 2021 8:31:32 GMT
Isn't this what Partick referred to a few posts back....KICK IT OUT.... In my opinion that is non divisive, non political and had the potential to bring people together. Fans, players and the clubs accepted it. Which was a great achievement. Unfortunately, in my opinion, some people and organisations are not really interested in bringing people together / harmony but rather conflict and antagonism. ...... and to my knowledge it's universally accepted, has a clear message and doesn't get booed. The problem with Kick It Out is that it seems ok for people who are not subject to racist abuse but has been felt to be ineffective for those who regularly do receive it and that is a major concern. This sustained abuse inevitably causes anger and frustration for those on the receiving end and a feeling of wanting to make a stronger statement. That is not to say taking the knee has proved any more effective. But perhaps we would need to consult a wider demographic to gauge that. Hopefully there are other initiatives being worked on as we speak as well. I re-emphasise its a minority who are booing this, the majority are not. Do we then follow the interests of the minority in this case?
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Post by franklin on Jun 4, 2021 8:34:06 GMT
I find it all rather boring now and if im honest I dunna give a toss about it anymore.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Jun 4, 2021 8:57:54 GMT
...... and to my knowledge it's universally accepted, has a clear message and doesn't get booed. The problem with Kick It Out is that it seems ok for people who are not subject to racist abuse but has been felt to be ineffective for those who regularly do receive it and that is a major concern. This sustained abuse inevitably causes anger and frustration for those on the receiving end and a feeling of wanting to make a stronger statement. That is not to say taking the knee has proved any more effective. But perhaps we would need to consult a wider demographic to gauge that. Hopefully there are other initiatives being worked on as we speak as well. I re-emphasise its a minority who are booing this, the majority are not. Do we then follow the interests of the minority in this case? I think part of the trouble is that some people ( often white) will NEVER be satisfied unless there is division.....which is NOT the same as saying that racism doesn't exist, or doesn't matter because it doesn't affect me. Perhaps we need to ask what kind of society ( in the uk) are we trying to achieve and how do we get there. Personally I prefer the ML king approach ( and I do know that there were also race riots) ....in his " I have a dream " speech he talks about his black children holding hands with little white children......that vision seems to me to be missing from the recent wave of protests and in fact seems to be unacceptable.....therexseems to be a need for division and guilt.....perhaps forgiveness and love are needed.
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Post by thevoid on Jun 4, 2021 9:26:27 GMT
What is obvious from this thread though is how nice it is to see good healthy debate without the thread turning into abuse and wild accusations. Long may it continue. Right wing filth 😎
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Post by starkiller on Jun 4, 2021 9:48:28 GMT
It's the same trap you are led in to as when presented with a black lesbian Anne Boleyn. Raise any objection and you're labelled the usual. A set up which you can't reason with.
The more people are labelled, the more people will boo.
And the fact that there are actually multi-millionaires on the pitch to kneel for this stuff tells its own story.
Burn Loot Murder has caused more racial division and tension, and clearly has agenda to proliferate a race war.
Kick politics out of football.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jun 4, 2021 9:52:12 GMT
The problem with Kick It Out is that it seems ok for people who are not subject to racist abuse but has been felt to be ineffective for those who regularly do receive it and that is a major concern. This sustained abuse inevitably causes anger and frustration for those on the receiving end and a feeling of wanting to make a stronger statement. That is not to say taking the knee has proved any more effective. But perhaps we would need to consult a wider demographic to gauge that. Hopefully there are other initiatives being worked on as we speak as well. I re-emphasise its a minority who are booing this, the majority are not. Do we then follow the interests of the minority in this case? I think part of the trouble is that some people ( often white) will NEVER be satisfied unless there is division.....which is NOT the same as saying that racism doesn't exist, or doesn't matter because it doesn't affect me. Perhaps we need to ask what kind of society ( in the uk) are we trying to achieve and how do we get there. Personally I prefer the ML king approach ( and I do know that there were also race riots) ....in his " I have a dream " speech he talks about his black children holding hands with little white children......that vision seems to me to be missing from the recent wave of protests and in fact seems to be unacceptable.....therexseems to be a need for division and guilt.....perhaps forgiveness and love are needed. It needs to cut both ways though. Hard to see a huge take up for'forgiveness' when black footballers are still getting dozens of racist messages on social media, and if we're going to talk about 'forgiveness and love' then there equally has to be an effort on both sides to understand the other's position - part of which would be listening to the players themselves and what their interpretation of the message is, rather than just sticking fingers in ears and screaming something something Marxists.
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Jun 4, 2021 10:24:23 GMT
I think part of the trouble is that some people ( often white) will NEVER be satisfied unless there is division.....which is NOT the same as saying that racism doesn't exist, or doesn't matter because it doesn't affect me. Perhaps we need to ask what kind of society ( in the uk) are we trying to achieve and how do we get there. Personally I prefer the ML king approach ( and I do know that there were also race riots) ....in his " I have a dream " speech he talks about his black children holding hands with little white children......that vision seems to me to be missing from the recent wave of protests and in fact seems to be unacceptable.....therexseems to be a need for division and guilt.....perhaps forgiveness and love are needed. It needs to cut both ways though. Hard to see a huge take up for'forgiveness' when black footballers are still getting dozens of racist messages on social media, and if we're going to talk about 'forgiveness and love' then there equally has to be an effort on both sides to understand the other's position - part of which would be listening to the players themselves and what their interpretation of the message is, rather than just sticking fingers in ears and screaming something something Marxists. Agreed. The extreme of one side is shouting "you virtue signalling marxist woke idiots" and the other just keeps on shouting "racists" to absolutely anything even when there is no justification. And this is the particular problem with BLM. They are agitators and revel in the division they cause because it keeps the dollars rolling in. The narrative needs to be controlled by the common sense people in the middle who can empathise from both sides. I'd love to see some hard stats on how online abuse of players has risen in the wake of BLM's involvement in British football. All it seems to have done is give oxygen to the real dirty racists who now seem emboldened in their bile. There is a better way and hopefully the good that will come out of it all is that Kick It Out will get some better traction in promoting racial equality at all levels of the British game. Edit; Just as a side note my lad plays football in the east manchester u 11's league. It is incredibly diverse and in the 3 years he has been playing in it I can say I have not once seen any racially motivated incident. They really don't give this whole black and white, them and us thing a second thought. Sadly the BLM issue risks infecting this. That is one of my main concerns.
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Post by scfc1863 on Jun 4, 2021 10:25:08 GMT
What is obvious from this thread though is how nice it is to see good healthy debate without the thread turning into abuse and wild accusations. Long may it continue. Must admit when I started this thread I was a bit dubious as to how it would be received, but as you say, how refreshing to have a healthy debate with interesting comments and ideas coming in from all sides. For me, I don't like to hear the booing and come the start of the season, when hopefully all can attend, I think the situation will only deteriorate and cause friction which nobody wants to endure so perhaps taking the knee should be ended. That said, the Kick it Out campaign must really up it's game and build on the foundations that the BLM movement has built. There's been some really welcoming idea's already put forward on this thread alone so let's hope for a good outcome.
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