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Post by madeleyite on Feb 20, 2021 12:13:13 GMT
Got to be Jones but Christ knows how Lambert keeps getting jobs. Ipswich fans are rioting in the car park at the moment
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Post by generationex on Feb 20, 2021 12:23:19 GMT
Ball is the worst.
But it seems to have been glossed over just how much of a mess Hughes left.
To then waste another 50 million is criminal but on paper those signings looked like the sort you’d make to get promotion, which suggests it maybe harder than it looks.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Feb 20, 2021 12:44:40 GMT
Ball is the worst. But it seems to have been glossed over just how much of a mess Hughes left. To then waste another 50 million is criminal but on paper those signings looked like the sort you’d make to get promotion, which suggests it maybe harder than it looks. Or it suggests he didn’t do his homework and didn’t have any imagination.
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Post by JoeinOz on Feb 20, 2021 12:49:06 GMT
Rowett isn't the worst manager we've had tactically (he could organise a team at least) but like Rob, I'm shocked by how some people seem to let him off the hook for pissing away our entire transfer warchest. We were a mess when we came down, no question, but there was absolutely no plan whatsoever when it came to recruitment and tactics. He just did the same thing he's done everywhere: set his team up in a very conservative 4-3-3 and shoehorned whoever he'd signed in a £50m trolley dash into that system. Dreadful. Alan Ball,Chris Kamara, Brian Little and Nathan Jones are the four I'd nominate as worst ever though, with Ball probably taking the title. The players liked him, he tried his best, but he wanted to be one of the lads, and ultimately the team didn't try hard enough. There was a drinking culture at the club during that time that he did nothing to stamp out and even though we had some quality players who would go on to form the backbone of the squad that were promoted under Macari, he couldn't get them firing at all. Looking back now it seems staggering that a squad containing Peter Fox, John Butler, Ian Cranson, Lee Sandford, Carl Beeston and Wayne Biggins could be so bad, but they really were awful under Ball's leadership. The biggest error SCFC have made in recent years was giving Rowett that huge wad. Trying to be Billy big Bollox. Brainless.
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Post by tqstokie on Feb 20, 2021 12:49:24 GMT
Barker for me
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Post by Miles Offside on Feb 20, 2021 12:51:55 GMT
There's a few to choose from, but we're definitely up against one of them today.
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Post by tqstokie on Feb 20, 2021 13:27:43 GMT
There's a few to choose from, but we're definitely up against one of them today. Yes but oh the irony if we get beat!
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Post by march4 on Feb 20, 2021 14:12:31 GMT
Still think none of these rank with Alan A’Court. The bloke was a caretaker, in charge of TWO games! I thought it was made permanent Dave. All an embarrassing episode including the change of home kit.
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Post by mickstupp on Feb 20, 2021 14:14:43 GMT
George Eastham?
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Post by lordb on Feb 20, 2021 14:15:32 GMT
The bloke was a caretaker, in charge of TWO games! I thought it was made permanent Dave. All an embarrassing episode including the change of home kit. Never permanent
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Post by march4 on Feb 20, 2021 14:16:56 GMT
I thought it was made permanent Dave. All an embarrassing episode including the change of home kit. Never permanent Are you 100% on that? The intention was to leave him in post until the Blyth Spartans result.
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Post by lordb on Feb 20, 2021 14:17:34 GMT
Certainly made the worst tactical decision (& that's including Hughes adopting wing backs with no wing backs) by ignoring that fantastic midfield and going POMO with tiny Painter up front Absolute madness.
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Post by lordb on Feb 20, 2021 14:18:50 GMT
Are you 100% on that? The intention was to leave him in post until the Blyth Spartans result. 100%? No 99% Nothing on line to suggest permanent Are you mixing up with Eastham?
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Post by march4 on Feb 20, 2021 14:25:14 GMT
Are you 100% on that? The intention was to leave him in post until the Blyth Spartans result. 100%? No 99% Nothing on line to suggest permanent Are you mixing up with Eastham? I’m not that senile yet! Honestly........... My daughter was friends with George’s daughter so I used to bump into him often. It’s such a shame that the memory of him has been tarnished by his spell as manager. I know it was something that concerned Denis whenever our manager’s job was available. If you and Dave are both pretty sure there was no intention of making Alan permanent manager then I’m happy to accept your superior memory.
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Post by lordb on Feb 20, 2021 14:29:52 GMT
100%? No 99% Nothing on line to suggest permanent Are you mixing up with Eastham? I’m not that senile yet! Honestly........... My daughter was friends with George’s daughter so I used to bump into him often. It’s such a shame that the memory of him has been tarnished by his spell as manager. I know it was something that concerned Denis whenever our manager’s job was available. If you and Dave are both pretty sure there was no intention of making Alan permanent manager then I’m happy to accept your superior memory. Before my time tbh , the whole era from roof blowing off to Durban seemed an unholy mess. If there are posters around who are prepared to own up to the shame of calling for Waddington's head would be interested to see. As brilliant as Waddo was it does nag me that the club was the place (or rather The Place) to party rather than to win things Alan Ball, appalling manager though he was showed real class by getting Waddo back on the team coach for away games.
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Post by wakeypotter on Feb 20, 2021 14:32:20 GMT
Quick we need to all say mad nath was the best Before 3pm
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Post by Staying up for Grandadstokey on Feb 20, 2021 14:52:07 GMT
Alan Ball and the last 15 months of Mark Hughes reign saw something which I found unforgiveable ,in that their teams were'nt even fit .It was soon shown when Macari took over from Ball with virtually the same squad how quickly they improved, basically down to better fitness levels. Having said that Nathan Jones was awful for us, but is doing a good job with Luton.
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Post by march4 on Feb 20, 2021 14:54:55 GMT
I’m not that senile yet! Honestly........... My daughter was friends with George’s daughter so I used to bump into him often. It’s such a shame that the memory of him has been tarnished by his spell as manager. I know it was something that concerned Denis whenever our manager’s job was available. If you and Dave are both pretty sure there was no intention of making Alan permanent manager then I’m happy to accept your superior memory. Before my time tbh , the whole era from roof blowing off to Durban seemed an unholy mess. If there are posters around who are prepared to own up to the shame of calling for Waddington's head would be interested to see. As brilliant as Waddo was it does nag me that the club was the place (or rather The Place) to party rather than to win things Alan Ball, appalling manager though he was showed real class by getting Waddo back on the team coach for away games. Durban said he was amazed on his first day at training how disorganised everything was. I remember the Waddington’s Monopoly banner in the Butler St stand. There had always been anti-Waddo feeling from early in his reign. He put defence first up until the 70’s when he brought in more flair players. Even then we were an aggressive team with a big target man. He was a brilliant man manager but if I’m honest I felt he gave out world record wages and world record transfer fees and in the end only had a League Cup to show for it. Should he have achieved more silverware with the money he spent? I suspect Revie, Shankly and Clough would have. On the other hand, the laissez faire attitude to organisation from Waddo allowed Huddy to thrive and the memory of seeing him dominate games will remain with me forever. My Dad was particularly anti-Waddo and was notably vocal at games once Shilton had been signed.
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Post by nottinghamstokie on Feb 20, 2021 15:59:11 GMT
Bill Asprey, Chic Bates, Boskamp, George Eastam all failed, and I rated Ritchie Barker, he bought in some ace players and played good football, the club management had a fire sale to pay for the Vic ground roof and pulled the rug from under his feet. Surely Barker was way after the roof issue ??
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Post by march4 on Feb 20, 2021 16:24:41 GMT
Bill Asprey, Chic Bates, Boskamp, George Eastam all failed, and I rated Ritchie Barker, he bought in some ace players and played good football, the club management had a fire sale to pay for the Vic ground roof and pulled the rug from under his feet. Surely Barker was way after the roof issue ?? Yes. There is some shaky history on here today.
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Feb 20, 2021 17:31:29 GMT
On average only one of the teams relegated bounce straight back and most do it by preserving what they had rather than buying big - like Norwich this season. The teams that turn it round straight away tend to build on what they had, our problem was what we had was falling apart and what we needed (and still need to an extent) is a complete rebuild. Rowett did make some poor signings but he was fishing in the same pool as any other manager - for a club in the position we were in there isn't a queue of talent banging on your door because all the Premiership quality players are queuing at the door of the newly promoted clubs. The club took a punt at bouncing straight back but they underestimated the job at hand. As did the fans - including me up to half time in our first game of that season. I'm not a massive fan of Rowett but I do think a lot of the flack he gets is down to the disappointment of not bouncing straight back but for me that's more to do with the situation Rowett inherited as any mistakes he made. I actually think Lambert is more to blame for our current situation then Rowett - he had some genuinely quality players to hand and he managed to turn us it something worse than the sum of our parts and left us with no momentum or coherence going into the following season. I may be wrong but I don't think any manager was going to get us promoted that first season as we were such a mess. Judging our worst manager is a personal call and for me it's not Rowett in terms of actually being competent - especially when we've had the likes of Ball and Kamara at the helm who genuinely weren't any good. Had the OP been the most disappointing manager rather than worst I'd have Rowett right up there - but that one for me would have to go to Mark Hughes. A decent manager could’ve done better than he did, even if it wasn’t promotion though. You’re still missing the point about the transfers - he signed players who didn’t fit the specific system he was bent on playing. That’s incompetent even if you buy the ‘fishing in the same pool’ excuse (which I don’t because we had advantages financially that other teams didn’t and we did keep our set up together, which as you point out is a key strength for relegated sides). What shrewd teams do is target the cream of other teams lower down the division or hungry top end League 1 or European-based players. Rowett targeted Ill-fitting has-beens. And again you’ve ignored his dreadful man management. These days managers don't have sole responsibility for recruitment - they set the terms and have the final say but much of the work is done by the backroom staff. Our recruitment policy was crap over 2 or 3 seasons and just concentrating the blame on Rowett for one transfer window is unfair. Sorry we're not going to agree. For me Ball was just way worse than Rowett and his track record elsewhere (bar his first spell at Portsmouth) just confirms it. He had a long career in management purely based on his name - he really wasn't very good. Rowett is an average Championship manager who inherited a shit show at Stoke. Ball was spectacularly crap at the job.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Feb 20, 2021 19:54:23 GMT
The hatred from the players towards Jones is beautiful.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Feb 20, 2021 19:56:22 GMT
A decent manager could’ve done better than he did, even if it wasn’t promotion though. You’re still missing the point about the transfers - he signed players who didn’t fit the specific system he was bent on playing. That’s incompetent even if you buy the ‘fishing in the same pool’ excuse (which I don’t because we had advantages financially that other teams didn’t and we did keep our set up together, which as you point out is a key strength for relegated sides). What shrewd teams do is target the cream of other teams lower down the division or hungry top end League 1 or European-based players. Rowett targeted Ill-fitting has-beens. And again you’ve ignored his dreadful man management. These days managers don't have sole responsibility for recruitment - they set the terms and have the final say but much of the work is done by the backroom staff. Our recruitment policy was crap over 2 or 3 seasons and just concentrating the blame on Rowett for one transfer window is unfair. Sorry we're not going to agree. For me Ball was just way worse than Rowett and his track record elsewhere (bar his first spell at Portsmouth) just confirms it. He had a long career in management purely based on his name - he really wasn't very good. Rowett is an average Championship manager who inherited a shit show at Stoke. Ball was spectacularly crap at the job. I agree Ball was worse, I just think you’re being way too kind to Rowett. I could take your point on recruitment if it wasn’t for the fact that the majority of the signings were players he’d either tried to sign before or worked with before, which applied to Afobe, McClean, Clucas, Woods and Ince.
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Feb 21, 2021 10:48:10 GMT
These days managers don't have sole responsibility for recruitment - they set the terms and have the final say but much of the work is done by the backroom staff. Our recruitment policy was crap over 2 or 3 seasons and just concentrating the blame on Rowett for one transfer window is unfair. Sorry we're not going to agree. For me Ball was just way worse than Rowett and his track record elsewhere (bar his first spell at Portsmouth) just confirms it. He had a long career in management purely based on his name - he really wasn't very good. Rowett is an average Championship manager who inherited a shit show at Stoke. Ball was spectacularly crap at the job. I agree Ball was worse, I just think you’re being way too kind to Rowett. I could take your point on recruitment if it wasn’t for the fact that the majority of the signings were players he’d either tried to sign before or worked with before, which applied to Afobe, McClean, Clucas, Woods and Ince. You're probably right I may be too kind on Rowett but I think in part that's because I believe what happens at a football club goes way beyond the contribution of the manager who just ends up being the scapegoat for things beyond their control. Rowett no doubt contributed to the problems but I honestly think the biggest factors at the time were not Rowett's fault and would have challenged any manager. Jones was a less experienced manager than Rowett and he made us worse that season with the pretty much the same players. However to be fair on both Rowett and Jones they've got two teams punching well above their weight at the moment which says something as to their actual ability as managers. At least we can agree on Ball. There are plenty of managers known for being relegation specialists (i.e. managers like Allardyce who get shipped in when a team is in danger of getting relegation) but Ball is the only manager I can think of whose specialism was actually getting teams relegated.
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Post by greenhuff on Feb 21, 2021 15:53:26 GMT
I think it needs context. When your skint and can't buy decent players yes you will on balance struggle .When your backed with loads of cash and blow it then its inexcusable. Rowett proved a total liability throwing money around .He would probably have done better had he been given a limited budget .I expect it was the first time in his managerial career he was given pots of money to spend and did it unwisely. He's done a lot better at Millwall on a limited budget . However for exhibiting total and abysmal mismanagement its got to be Mad Nath with honourable mentions for Rowett and Bally
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2021 13:25:44 GMT
NJ for me. Was so keen to go , he went round and said his goodbyes to everyone from the players to the tea lady , after the Huddersfield match . Despite the fact he hadn't even been sacked yet ! Then ended up managing the next couple of games !! If carlsberg organised footballing shambles , the club would be called Stoke city and the manager would be NJ .
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Post by JoeinOz on Feb 24, 2021 23:21:51 GMT
George Eastham's time as manager is overlooked in terms of crapness.
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