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Post by spitthedog on Dec 19, 2020 23:09:45 GMT
The reality he is a much, much better option than Vokes. I so wish that wasn't true but it really is. Vokes certainly hasn't been great this season, but he can at least get the ball to a team mate now and then. Vokes does not get anywhere near the ball though, at least Brown is able to block defenders, he put in a few tackles today and blocked their passes or ran them into a position that made it difficult to get the ball forward. Vokes did not get to within 10 yards of any defender when they had the ball today at a time when we needed him to. Again when he came on they played 15-20 yards further up the pitch at leisure just like Cardiff. Absolutely shocking. He cannot run.
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Post by march4 on Dec 19, 2020 23:28:25 GMT
Today was another bad day for Brown. For the first 20 minutes he had a nightmare. After that he was largely anonymous.
Ince was totally anonymous.
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Post by potterburt on Dec 19, 2020 23:28:36 GMT
Vokes certainly hasn't been great this season, but he can at least get the ball to a team mate now and then. Vokes does not get anywhere near the ball though, at least Brown is able to block defenders, he put in a few tackles today and blocked their passes or ran them into a position that made it difficult to get the ball forward. Vokes did not get to within 10 yards of any defender when they had the ball today at a time when we needed him to. Again when he came on they played 15-20 yards further up the pitch at leisure just like Cardiff. Absolutely shocking. He cannot run. ....and he picked the ball up at RB position, dispossessing the opposition, squirmed out a long pass to fletcher which started our move for our 2nd shot. Is there a possibility?..... that he is being instructed to play as a defensive winger? That he is at times the rwb? That his job might be and ias nstructed by the manager of our club that he may have to press up top (which he does really fricking well), cover Collins for speed and do the defensive first and foremost? Can anyone confidently say that that may not be the sentiment from our plethora of tactical management personnel who see him everyday and analyse the opposition threats? ......no don’t think so. amazing that after 7 minutes of play, the game day thread turned into a torrid of hatred against your new worst enemy - which (not sure of you are aware?) is one of our players, that we ‘could’ support. If you are the type that needs a villain that’s involved in stoke, wouldn’t harm ya to take a look in the mirror now and again.
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Post by boskampsflaps on Dec 20, 2020 6:42:46 GMT
He had two good games, but fair enough he's either out of form or not up to it consistantly at this level, either way he needs replacing. That's two more than Verlinden then? This season, for the first team, yeh but that means nothing when a player is in such bad form (we'll call it form) then it's usually time for someone else to be given a go. I couldn't care less about Verlinden not having as many good games as Brown, give him a go, there's nothing to lose as Brown is offering nothing apart from giving the ball away, if Verlinden comes in and he's just as bad then at least Brown gets a rest and he can come back into the team refreshed if he's needed.
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Post by pottersrule on Dec 20, 2020 8:12:53 GMT
That's two more than Verlinden then? This season, for the first team, yeh but that means nothing when a player is in such bad form (we'll call it form) then it's usually time for someone else to be given a go. I couldn't care less about Verlinden not having as many good games as Brown, give him a go, there's nothing to lose as Brown is offering nothing apart from giving the ball away, if Verlinden comes in and he's just as bad then at least Brown gets a rest and he can come back into the team refreshed if he's needed. Think Verlinden may get his chance on Wednesday.
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Post by robwahlmann on Dec 20, 2020 10:08:14 GMT
Vokes certainly hasn't been great this season, but he can at least get the ball to a team mate now and then. Vokes does not get anywhere near the ball though, at least Brown is able to block defenders, he put in a few tackles today and blocked their passes or ran them into a position that made it difficult to get the ball forward. Vokes did not get to within 10 yards of any defender when they had the ball today at a time when we needed him to. Again when he came on they played 15-20 yards further up the pitch at leisure just like Cardiff. Absolutely shocking. He cannot run. I'm not a big fan of Vokes, but give me Vokes anytime instead of Brown! To be honest I don't think any of them should play right now, but we are down to bare bones attackingwise at the moment so I guess we have very few options.
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Post by ElworthPotter on Dec 20, 2020 16:45:24 GMT
I accept we’re not fishing in the same pools we used to re transfers, but surely there was better on offer for 2 million quid than this guy. When he started out on the wing and didn’t offer much I thought “give him a go up top”. He offers even less up front and I think he’s a really poor footballer
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Post by kustokie on Dec 20, 2020 18:25:33 GMT
Hang on a minute. He was released by the Chesterfield academy. He’s been playing professional football for four seasons all in the lower divisions, except last season for Barnsley when he played 42 games and scored 4 goals. He cannot perform at this level; however, he’s all that comes up when we scrape the bottom of the barrel. It’s head-scratching why we signed him in the first place. Verlinden must be playing really poorly in training if he and Ince are ahead of him in the pecking order. And so that’s Michael O’Neils fault and he should be accountable for this signing ? It wasn’t that long ago when a player scraped from the very bottom of the barrel was given a break, I think his name was Vardy ! True. But every Jamie Vardy there’s a hundred Jacob Browns.
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Post by kustokie on Dec 20, 2020 18:27:52 GMT
Vokes does not get anywhere near the ball though, at least Brown is able to block defenders, he put in a few tackles today and blocked their passes or ran them into a position that made it difficult to get the ball forward. Vokes did not get to within 10 yards of any defender when they had the ball today at a time when we needed him to. Again when he came on they played 15-20 yards further up the pitch at leisure just like Cardiff. Absolutely shocking. He cannot run. ....and he picked the ball up at RB position, dispossessing the opposition, squirmed out a long pass to fletcher which started our move for our 2nd shot. Is there a possibility?..... that he is being instructed to play as a defensive winger? That he is at times the rwb? That his job might be and ias nstructed by the manager of our club that he may have to press up top (which he does really fricking well), cover Collins for speed and do the defensive first and foremost? Can anyone confidently say that that may not be the sentiment from our plethora of tactical management personnel who see him everyday and analyse the opposition threats? ......no don’t think so. amazing that after 7 minutes of play, the game day thread turned into a torrid of hatred against your new worst enemy - which (not sure of you are aware?) is one of our players, that we ‘could’ support. If you are the type that needs a villain that’s involved in stoke, wouldn’t harm ya to take a look in the mirror now and again. I seriously doubt he’s reading the oatcake in the middle of game, so supporting a player when the stadium is empty is pretty difficult. He’d be getting dog’s abuse if the stadium was full!
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Post by nonameface on Dec 20, 2020 18:54:24 GMT
And so that’s Michael O’Neils fault and he should be accountable for this signing ? It wasn’t that long ago when a player scraped from the very bottom of the barrel was given a break, I think his name was Vardy ! True. But every Jamie Vardy there’s a hundred Jacob Browns. Took Vardy a bit of time to be a success for Leicester too ...
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Post by tachyon on Dec 21, 2020 9:54:58 GMT
Ok, let's hear it for Jacob Brown.
A steal from Barnsley.
Ticks the age box, was involved as creator or taker in an expected goal every 2 and a bit games at Barnsley (played 3568 minutes) & got into some very dangerous scoring positions (good & repeatable), despite failing to score from most of them.
Reduced raw attacking output so far at Stoke. But for context, Barnsley were a gung ho team last year, creating 30% more xG than Stoke are this year and allowing an eye popping 50% more xG than we do.
Allow for the different tactical environment Brown now finds himself in and his attacking output has fallen, but his defensive contribution has risen.
I'd imagine he's playing to instruction and demonstrating good versatility.
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Post by leicspotter on Dec 21, 2020 10:30:26 GMT
Just been reading the thread about Jordan Cousins and how he seems to have become quite an integral part of the side of late. When he arrived I wondered why the hell we had signed him...maybe Brown's path will take a similar route as he learns from the better players around him? I certainly hope so I really hope so too, but I can't see it! My first impression of Cousines was very positive by the way, thought he had a really good game in that friendly against Leicester when Shawcross broke his leg. Opinions eh. I thought v Leicester he just ran across the pitch in front of the back four doing nothing much in particular. At the time I was hoping that he would reveal his true colours once the real action started...but sadly he didn't, until, it seems, the last few games Still, better to be a 'slow burn' with a long and illustrious career, than a one game sensation that peters out to nothing . Here I'm thinking about the likes of John Tudor (for Stoke at least), Dave Goodwin, Freezer, Rikki Dadason and most recently Gianelli Imbula who looked top notch in his first couple of games and then went to dog shit
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Post by robwahlmann on Dec 21, 2020 10:42:55 GMT
I really hope so too, but I can't see it! My first impression of Cousines was very positive by the way, thought he had a really good game in that friendly against Leicester when Shawcross broke his leg. Opinions eh. I thought v Leicester he just ran across the pitch in front of the back four doing nothing much in particular. At the time I was hoping that he would reveal his true colours once the real action started...but sadly he didn't, until, it seems, the last few games Still, better to be a 'slow burn' with a long and illustrious career, than a one game sensation that peters out to nothing . Here I'm thinking about the likes of John Tudor (for Stoke at least), Dave Goodwin, Freezer, Rikki Dadason and most recently Gianelli Imbula who looked top notch in his first couple of games and then went to dog shit .....but apart from running a lot, can you really see any quality in Brown!? I always hope our players will do well, but with Brown on the pitch I struggle to see us score many goals in any game again. I know we scored 3 at Reading and Brown got the last one, but again we were effective and the score really flattered us.
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Post by spitthedog on Dec 21, 2020 10:45:42 GMT
I really hope so too, but I can't see it! My first impression of Cousines was very positive by the way, thought he had a really good game in that friendly against Leicester when Shawcross broke his leg. Opinions eh. I thought v Leicester he just ran across the pitch in front of the back four doing nothing much in particular. At the time I was hoping that he would reveal his true colours once the real action started...but sadly he didn't, until, it seems, the last few games Still, better to be a 'slow burn' with a long and illustrious career, than a one game sensation that peters out to nothing . Here I'm thinking about the likes of John Tudor (for Stoke at least), Dave Goodwin, Freezer, Rikki Dadason and most recently Gianelli Imbula who looked top notch in his first couple of games and then went to dog shit I thought Jon Walters was absolute garbage in his first dozen or so games. I think we lost 8 of the first 12 he played in, he looked like a headless chicken , seemed only nuisance value, his control of the ball was awful. He learnt how to be an effective footballer at Stoke, he ended up having a very good season. Its been interesting to note how few goals we have have conceded when he is on the pitch and how vulnerable we look when he goes off. We could do far, far better and far far worse, and I don't think we are going to see goals from him it is true, but I believe he is doing a job for MON atm imho which is pressing at the front and defending from the front utilising his pace and movement. He's keeping those defenders busy and not letting them to get the ball out at leisure. Needs to learn quick to give us more.
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Post by tachyon on Dec 21, 2020 13:01:42 GMT
Its been interesting to note how few goals we have have conceded when he is on the pitch and how vulnerable we look when he goes off. It's not a massively informative stat (too many conflicting connections), but we've scored 14% more goals with him than without and allowed 7% fewer.
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Post by Miles Offside on Dec 21, 2020 18:13:10 GMT
Good pace, does a lot of the hard running for the team, but needs to improve a lot in getting into goal scoring positions.
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