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Post by GreaterGlasgowstokie on Dec 16, 2020 18:43:39 GMT
Ouch. If you look at his early performances this season, and what he did at Barnsley there is a lot more to come from him which he just hasn't shown in recent games.
He needs to get nasty
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Post by boskampsflaps on Dec 16, 2020 19:02:07 GMT
As i said he's a better professional more effort but all the technical faults are as bad the ball is his enemy and thats where he he fails and always will , may be a lovely lad but he he has n where near the ability someone like say cousins has with the ball and look at how hard he has found it , Brown was a utter waste of a precious £2m ince is a infinitely better footballer and can play in the same place we had three centre forward already . Not talking about his character, he's better technically than Shea.even v Qpr he showed some neat play but obviously was ineffective. You describe him as some kind of donkey, he simply isn't. It wasn't £2m either. Ince definitely has better feet, hes better than most of our players in that sense however his other on the pitch flaws are well documented and undeniable. Ince is not going to improve, Brown can. Brown would have to improve massively to have the record Ince has in his career.
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Post by logdog on Dec 16, 2020 19:31:17 GMT
Anyone else noticed how boskampsflaps & bayern seem to share exactly the same views, and stick up for each other a lot. Wonder if they’ve ever been seen in the same room at the same time???🤔😉😂
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Post by lordb on Dec 16, 2020 19:35:08 GMT
Not talking about his character, he's better technically than Shea.even v Qpr he showed some neat play but obviously was ineffective. You describe him as some kind of donkey, he simply isn't. It wasn't £2m either. Ince definitely has better feet, hes better than most of our players in that sense however his other on the pitch flaws are well documented and undeniable. Ince is not going to improve, Brown can. Brown would have to improve massively to have the record Ince has in his career. But not for the last two years Ince is a has been Brown is a might be That's why he cost very little
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Post by boskampsflaps on Dec 16, 2020 19:39:02 GMT
Brown would have to improve massively to have the record Ince has in his career. But not for the last two years Ince is a has been Brown is a might be That's why he cost very little Ince is out of form, Brown is no where near the player Ince is/can be/has been.
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Post by hardcastle on Dec 16, 2020 19:51:40 GMT
As with all the emerging younger lads (TOB, Thibo, Thommo, Tymon) the time to judge them is maybe 12-18 months from now. I know Ty, Collins and Souttar are seemingly pretty much first team picks already but it would be unbelievably good fortune (or good judgement on behalf of O'Neill and the scouting team) if all eight (including Brown) were good enough already. Give them time and give them chances.
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Post by lordb on Dec 16, 2020 20:00:10 GMT
But not for the last two years Ince is a has been Brown is a might be That's why he cost very little Ince is out of form, Brown is no where near the player Ince is/can be/has been. Out of form? For two fucking years?! That's like a line from Blackadder. Brown may not reach the heights Ince reached at Derby and Blackpool but he should be any to eclipse Inces post Rowett Stoke City output.
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Post by chuckrocky on Dec 16, 2020 20:01:28 GMT
As with all the emerging younger lads (TOB, Thibo, Thommo, Tymon) the time to judge them is maybe 12-18 months from now. I know Ty, Collins and Souttar are seemingly pretty much first team picks already but it would be unbelievably good fortune (or good judgement on behalf of O'Neill and the scouting team) if all eight (including Brown) were good enough already. Give them time and give them chances. Brown isn’t really a young emerging player though is he? He’s 22 and made over 100 senior appearances.
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Post by boskampsflaps on Dec 16, 2020 21:48:04 GMT
Ince is out of form, Brown is no where near the player Ince is/can be/has been. Out of form? For two fucking years?! That's like a line from Blackadder. Brown may not reach the heights Ince reached at Derby and Blackpool but he should be any to eclipse Inces post Rowett Stoke City output. From what I've seen I doubt it but lets see what happens
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Post by fca47 on Dec 16, 2020 23:06:38 GMT
But not for the last two years Ince is a has been Brown is a might be That's why he cost very little Ince is out of form, Brown is no where near the player Ince is/can be/has been. When it comes to how they have played for us, don't think there is much difference. Ince has done it elsewhere, but not for Stoke.
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Post by boskampsflaps on Dec 17, 2020 9:09:16 GMT
Ince is out of form, Brown is no where near the player Ince is/can be/has been. When it comes to how they have played for us, don't think there is much difference. Ince has done it elsewhere, but not for Stoke. If we conveniently forget Ince's good form from when he first arrived as lordb suggests then you're probably right, the other night offered a glimmer of hope regarding Ince so I'm keeping my fingers crossed he can offer us something while Campbell is out.
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Dec 17, 2020 9:33:45 GMT
He's not the greatest but he's quick, tries hard and hassles defences. His best games have come in a forward 2/3 - he's not a wingback or a winger and he's definitely not a lone striker. He could be decent at this level as part of a front 2/3 but he certainly doesn't look like he's got what it takes to go further at the moment. Despite being out of form Ince is clearly a higher quality player.
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Post by robwahlmann on Dec 17, 2020 10:29:48 GMT
He's not the greatest but he's quick, tries hard and hassles defences. His best games have come in a forward 2/3 - he's not a wingback or a winger and he's definitely not a lone striker. He could be decent at this level as part of a front 2/3 but he certainly doesn't look like he's got what it takes to go further at the moment. Despite being out of form Ince is clearly a higher quality player. I thought Ince showed very positive signs in the last game, let's hope it continues!
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Post by hardcastle on Dec 17, 2020 15:09:39 GMT
Talent will take you so far. And then you need application, courage, desire and good decision making. Alas lncey ain't so great on some of these attributes.
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Post by mrcoke on Dec 17, 2020 15:46:50 GMT
I agree I posted another thread that he's basically helping us to defend from the front, his contribution is more defensive that forward play, though I think idea is that this is a bonus. We are harder to beat with him on the pitch compared to Vokes, that is the bottom line. With Vokes they would have been playing 20 yards further up the pitch. He doesn't allow defenders time on the ball, he actually beats defenders to the ball in 50-50s through his pace (he did a few times) tonight and lays it off. He's basically poor on the ball, his technique is pretty poor, a bit like Walters when he first came, only Walters is much stronger and Walters improved quite dramatically. His pace and movement does work defenders even when he is not directly involved. He contributed again tonight and we were worse when Fletcher came on He definitely needs to improve but I don't agree to writing him off. Well said. A week ago he was being praised on here after the Boro game now he is written off. The reality is he is a young player being asked to lead the line in a team set up not to lose with two very defensive central midfielders, two full backs who contribute little in attack. last night he played alongside a player starting for the first time this season with Powell, our main creative threat, running on empty. It didn't change when Fletcher came on. It is an acceptable approach while we wait for Clucas and Allen who offer more from midfield but if we want to score freely we will need to take more risks before too long. Brown is part of the solution I agree. He is a young player still learning and thrown into a very difficult role.* A role that Campbell struggled in and only blossomed when moved wide. As you pointed out he has been given very little quality service. In a different way, he has been hung out to dry and left exposed the way Bursik was in his first two matches. * I am reminded of Crouch's first book where he talked about how difficult it is to lead the attack at front and centre. He made rapid progress through the levels of play as a young man, but the suddenly stopped when he reached the top professional level. He found himself up against experienced defenders who effectively "put him in their pocket" and it was a shock to him. It took him a year to work out how to beat defenders at the top level before he could progress to a top team and England.
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Post by spitthedog on Dec 17, 2020 16:00:30 GMT
Well said. A week ago he was being praised on here after the Boro game now he is written off. The reality is he is a young player being asked to lead the line in a team set up not to lose with two very defensive central midfielders, two full backs who contribute little in attack. last night he played alongside a player starting for the first time this season with Powell, our main creative threat, running on empty. It didn't change when Fletcher came on. It is an acceptable approach while we wait for Clucas and Allen who offer more from midfield but if we want to score freely we will need to take more risks before too long. Brown is part of the solution I agree. He is a young player still learning and thrown into a very difficult role.* A role that Campbell struggled in and only blossomed when moved wide. As you pointed out he has been given very little quality service. In a different way, he has been hung out to dry and left exposed the way Bursik was in his first two matches. * I am reminded of Crouch's first book where he talked about how difficult it is to lead the attack at front and centre. He made rapid progress through the levels of play as a young man, but the suddenly stopped when he reached the top professional level. He found himself up against experienced defenders who effectively "put him in their pocket" and it was a shock to him. It took him a year to work out how to beat defenders at the top level before he could progress to a top team and England. The job that Brown has been given is bloody hard one. He's meant to stop their back players from moving the ball forward as well as to be an attacking threat himself when he gets the opportunity with very little support, something Vokes had failed to do miserably. He is being preferred to a £9m player with Premiership goals to his name. Players do take time to develop. I thought Walters was bloody useless when he first came, and he wasn't that young either, but improved over time into a very effective player, he was often asked to defend from the front. People need to cut him a bit of slack imho There have been games where we have struggled when we brought him off the pitch, which says something.
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Post by mamasgloves on Dec 17, 2020 16:06:17 GMT
I agree. He is a young player still learning and thrown into a very difficult role.* A role that Campbell struggled in and only blossomed when moved wide. As you pointed out he has been given very little quality service. In a different way, he has been hung out to dry and left exposed the way Bursik was in his first two matches. * I am reminded of Crouch's first book where he talked about how difficult it is to lead the attack at front and centre. He made rapid progress through the levels of play as a young man, but the suddenly stopped when he reached the top professional level. He found himself up against experienced defenders who effectively "put him in their pocket" and it was a shock to him. It took him a year to work out how to beat defenders at the top level before he could progress to a top team and England. The job that Brown has been given is bloody hard one. He's meant to stop their back players from moving the ball forward as well as to be an attacking threat himself when he gets the opportunity with very little support, something Vokes had failed to do miserably. He is being preferred to a £9m player with Premiership goals to his name. Players do take time to develop. I thought Walters was bloody useless when he first came, and he wasn't that young either, but improved over time into a very effective player, he was often asked to defend from the front. People need to cut him a bit of slack imho There have been games where we have struggled when we brought him off the pitch, which says something.Has there? Where we weren't already struggling? Every game he's started and been subbed off we've generally been better. He's had goals come from his side when defending, completely anonymous out wide and clueless up front. He's best off the bench when his running and pace cause defenders to put it into touch when better players can create off the thrown in.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2020 16:13:18 GMT
The job that Brown has been given is bloody hard one. He's meant to stop their back players from moving the ball forward as well as to be an attacking threat himself when he gets the opportunity with very little support, something Vokes had failed to do miserably. He is being preferred to a £9m player with Premiership goals to his name. Players do take time to develop. I thought Walters was bloody useless when he first came, and he wasn't that young either, but improved over time into a very effective player, he was often asked to defend from the front. People need to cut him a bit of slack imho There have been games where we have struggled when we brought him off the pitch, which says something.Has there? Where we weren't already struggling? Every game he's started and been subbed off we've generally been better. He's had goals come from his side when defending, completely anonymous out wide and clueless up front. He's best off the bench when his running and pace cause defenders to put it into touch when better players can create off the thrown in. I think he disrupts defences reasonably well. He is probably best used versus teams that like to knock it around the back to build an attack. His pace does push teams back a few yards, which gives Powell more space. He’s not a winger. He’s a better option than Vokes or Gregory up front. He’ll likely get sent back to the bench when Fletcher is fully fit.
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Post by mrteddysalad on Dec 17, 2020 16:15:49 GMT
McClean and Powell also didn't help his case. They didn't produce single good ball into the box at QPR. McClean doesn't even have the skill to look at where Brown is positioned because he has to look at his feet when has possession. Then he does his one only move (step over to the left) and sends a low ball to no one in particular. It's time to give Verlinden a shot.
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Post by mamasgloves on Dec 19, 2020 17:41:37 GMT
Awful again, he's added passing to the opposition to his bow now
Why is he starting games when he's blatantly not good enough to consistently influence them at this level?
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Post by gingerninja on Dec 19, 2020 17:49:02 GMT
After a promising start he needs to be taken out of the firing line before his confidence is shattered. He's just not up to it at the moment.
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Post by TinkerT on Dec 19, 2020 17:51:23 GMT
Since he played out his skin he's been thrown out onto the wing. I'd give him a rest and bring him off the bench over the hopeless vokes.
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Post by dastokie on Dec 19, 2020 17:58:36 GMT
When Fletcher started to tire should have taken him off for McClean. Moved Brown into the middle to stop theat embarrassment Vokes.
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Post by ChesterStokie on Dec 19, 2020 17:58:40 GMT
After a promising start he needs to be taken out of the firing line before his confidence is shattered. He's just not up to it at the moment. I'm beginning to think you may have to delete your last 3 words. He's maybe ok as a squad player to bring on when we need some legs for the last 10 minutes, but that's about it.
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Post by onefatcopper on Dec 19, 2020 18:08:37 GMT
He’s a raw talent that our manager has high hopes for, he’s moved up to a higher league and unfortunately has been thrown into the deep end due to injuries. He’s trying his best and that’s all you can ask for, and one thing that I’ll never forget was the day that he signed for Stoke and he was blown away that in eyes he had reached the big time, I’d give him my support all day over the mercenaries who have used this club and the loyalty of its fans.
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Post by gingerninja on Dec 19, 2020 18:11:36 GMT
Well said, he wants to improve and get better and according to many he has an excellent attitude. Him or Imbula, oh let me think.
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Post by scfcno1fan on Dec 19, 2020 18:17:29 GMT
Much better through the middle so far.
Was a great performance vs Middlesbrough.
Since then he’s been off the pace.
Should have kept him on instead of bringing Vokes on though.
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Post by robwahlmann on Dec 19, 2020 18:29:53 GMT
He’s a raw talent that our manager has high hopes for, he’s moved up to a higher league and unfortunately has been thrown into the deep end due to injuries. He’s trying his best and that’s all you can ask for, and one thing that I’ll never forget was the day that he signed for Stoke and he was blown away that in eyes he had reached the big time, I’d give him my support all day over the mercenaries who have used this club and the loyalty of its fans. I must admit I really struggle to see any talent or quality in this player! This is football not track and field! His contribution today was that he set up 3 of Blackburns' better attacks in the first half with his woeful passing! I really hope he proves me wrong, but in the last 3 games I can hardly remember having seen a player with less quality play in an attacking position for Stoke! If we could offload him I'd certainly like to see us do that!
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Post by Ron on Dec 19, 2020 18:36:37 GMT
As keep saying the lad is an appalling footballer. He can’t pass, tackle, beat a man, poor control. Just league 2 tripe. I’m fact I guarantee you there’s many many better players in leagues one and two.
Had enough chances... simply not good enough. One of the big reasons we create little is having him in forward areas.
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Post by Ron on Dec 19, 2020 18:37:41 GMT
Much better through the middle so far. Was a great performance vs Middlesbrough. Since then he’s been off the pace. Should have kept him on instead of bringing Vokes on though. sorry he was shit against Boro. He just ran a lot.
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