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Post by bayernoatcake on Dec 7, 2020 13:50:50 GMT
Collins in Champo team of the week. Seems like we have one in every week Its not undeserved but I feel like they nearly always put defenders in a team of the week if they score a goal, doesn't matter whether they have been shit in defence or not. In this case, Collins defended well too, but that's my observation over the last x amount of years with these things. Collins is great though, God knows how long we can keep him, he's going to become hot property when the new Brexit restrictions come in with less foreign options available to clubs. Interesting ....3 clean sheets in the last 3 games since he came in at right back....is that correct? Oh yeah they will do, it's based off stats so guessing that will always help the formula they use to give it a number.
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Post by foxysgloves on Dec 7, 2020 14:20:50 GMT
Can we have a total media and social media blackout on Collins.
And MON.
And Tyrese.
Soutar. Bursik. Etc.
Nathan who? Nope. Never heard of him.
Michael O’Neill? No you’re thinking Martin O’Neill. Last seen hanging around Nottingham I think. Ta ra!
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Post by bayernoatcake on Dec 7, 2020 14:26:42 GMT
Can we have a total media and social media blackout on Collins. And MON. And Tyrese. Soutar. Bursik. Etc. Nathan who? Nope. Never heard of him. Michael O’Neill? No you’re thinking Martin O’Neill. Last seen hanging around Nottingham I think. Ta ra! It would be nice wouldn't it. I would imagine Collins has been on the transfer lists of most top PL clubs for a while. Only as a potential but he's already known to them.
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Post by davejohnno1 on Dec 7, 2020 14:30:00 GMT
At last the academy is bearing fruit. It is starting to bear fruit but one thing which will hopefully change a little is that these academy graduates will start to be homegrown players, who've come through the academy ranks rather than bought in players who've been developed by others. Bursik, Campbell, Souttar, TOB, Tymon etc have all been bought from other clubs and in the case of Campbell, he came with a significant fee as well. Steps in the right direction for sure but the true barometer has to be the "home grown" products. We are little short in that regard at the moment but we have some good younger age groups and it was always going to take longer to see the fruits of that development. Hopefully a home grown youngster breaking through isn't so far away now.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Dec 7, 2020 14:34:38 GMT
At last the academy is bearing fruit. It is starting to bear fruit but one thing which will hopefully change a little is that these academy graduates will start to be homegrown players, who've come through the academy ranks rather than bought in players who've been developed by others. Bursik, Campbell, Souttar, TOB, Tymon etc have all been bought from other clubs and in the case of Campbell, he came with a significant fee as well. Steps in the right direction for sure but the true barometer has to be the "home grown" products. We are little short in that regard at the moment but we have some good younger age groups and it was always going to take longer to see the fruits of that development. Hopefully a home grown youngster breaking through isn't so far away now. Bursik, Campbell and Souttar all came through as scholars with us though and I think that is still a very good thing. For sure we need more coming through that started earlier but actually in the case of all of those three recruitment at 15/16 can bey key too.
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Post by davejohnno1 on Dec 7, 2020 15:10:12 GMT
It is starting to bear fruit but one thing which will hopefully change a little is that these academy graduates will start to be homegrown players, who've come through the academy ranks rather than bought in players who've been developed by others. Bursik, Campbell, Souttar, TOB, Tymon etc have all been bought from other clubs and in the case of Campbell, he came with a significant fee as well. Steps in the right direction for sure but the true barometer has to be the "home grown" products. We are little short in that regard at the moment but we have some good younger age groups and it was always going to take longer to see the fruits of that development. Hopefully a home grown youngster breaking through isn't so far away now. Bursik, Campbell and Souttar all came through as scholars with us though and I think that is still a very good thing. For sure we need more coming through that started earlier but actually in the case of all of those three recruitment at 15/16 can bey key too. No doubt and all were real signs of intent in terms of investment into the academy. It's great to see and we are clearly doing a good job of polishing the diamonds in that age bracket. There is nothing better than seeing a local boy come through the ranks and none of the current crop fit into that mould just yet. With the investments we've made, hopefully that isn't too far off. We've been CAT1 academy status for about 8-10 years now haven't we?
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Post by bayernoatcake on Dec 7, 2020 15:12:50 GMT
Bursik, Campbell and Souttar all came through as scholars with us though and I think that is still a very good thing. For sure we need more coming through that started earlier but actually in the case of all of those three recruitment at 15/16 can bey key too. No doubt and all were real signs of intent in terms of investment into the academy. It's great to see and we are clearly doing a good job of polishing the diamonds in that age bracket. There is nothing better than seeing a local boy come through the ranks and none of the current crop fit into that mould just yet. With the investments we've made, hopefully that isn't too far off. We've been CAT1 academy status for about 8-10 years now haven't we? Something like that yeah. And I think it was said it would take 10 years to see it coming to fruition and that's been about right.
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Post by Staffsoatcake on Dec 7, 2020 15:28:32 GMT
Collins is better than Smith and Edwards, but he needs to play in his natural position, then try and get decents full backs in Jan.
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Post by xchpotter on Dec 7, 2020 15:54:25 GMT
As much as it pains me to think it, at least we now have some players with real financial value. God forbid if the worst should ever happen and we end up a financial mess, there are several tens of millions of pounds in assets there. Butland aside,who we should have sold in hindsight, there wasn’t much left in the squad worth much, apart from Allen,but even he is now de valued somewhat with his injury. Anyway, hopefully it’s all immaterial if we do manage to get back up.
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Post by lordb on Dec 7, 2020 15:57:52 GMT
At last the academy is bearing fruit. It is starting to bear fruit but one thing which will hopefully change a little is that these academy graduates will start to be homegrown players, who've come through the academy ranks rather than bought in players who've been developed by others. Bursik, Campbell, Souttar, TOB, Tymon etc have all been bought from other clubs and in the case of Campbell, he came with a significant fee as well. Steps in the right direction for sure but the true barometer has to be the "home grown" products. We are little short in that regard at the moment but we have some good younger age groups and it was always going to take longer to see the fruits of that development. Hopefully a home grown youngster breaking through isn't so far away now. That's pretty much the same everywhere though Youngsters move around a lot generally. Going by to the much vaunted Crewe Alexandra youth system if the 80's and 90's nearly all their stars were picked up from other clubs (e.g. Platt from Man United,Hignett from Liverpool and Ashton from Stoke).
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Post by jeycov on Dec 7, 2020 16:26:45 GMT
Promotion would be a great way of tempting them to stay, although clearly we would have to invest in more quality as well Take a leaf out of Wolves book Good manager and he’s still at Wolves
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Post by davejohnno1 on Dec 7, 2020 18:17:25 GMT
It is starting to bear fruit but one thing which will hopefully change a little is that these academy graduates will start to be homegrown players, who've come through the academy ranks rather than bought in players who've been developed by others. Bursik, Campbell, Souttar, TOB, Tymon etc have all been bought from other clubs and in the case of Campbell, he came with a significant fee as well. Steps in the right direction for sure but the true barometer has to be the "home grown" products. We are little short in that regard at the moment but we have some good younger age groups and it was always going to take longer to see the fruits of that development. Hopefully a home grown youngster breaking through isn't so far away now. That's pretty much the same everywhere though Youngsters move around a lot generally. Going by to the much vaunted Crewe Alexandra youth system if the 80's and 90's nearly all their stars were picked up from other clubs (e.g. Platt from Man United,Hignett from Liverpool and Ashton from Stoke). It wasn't a criticism mate, more an observation. Ty cost us over £1m for example. Youngsters do move around but all these lads have come in to us post 16 years old haven't they? They are more scholars than academy graduates. IT doesn't matter where or how they come through in reality but it would be nice to have some local lads making their way into the first team as well. The picking up of youngsters from other clubs is commonplace in those clubs, like Crewe, who don't get first dibs on the best. Even at 9 for instance, the first contract a young player will sign, the likes of Crewe fill their pre-academy with players they are unlikely to sign and when kids don't get offered contracts by the bigger clubs, they make their way to Crewe or wherever and those kids who have been in from 6 and 7 get released. Stoke still do that now to some extent despite our years in the Premier League. Blackburn are very good at picking off Man United, Everton, Liverpool, Man City rejects at 9 and developing them in their academies. Perversely, those kids that go in at 9 find it difficult to get beyond 14 because those clubs then do exactly the same with older boys released from the big clubs. It's a bit of a cycle really. It's a great environment and experience for kids but it's also a pressurised and traumatic journey full of ups and downs.
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Post by Mint Berry Barks on Dec 7, 2020 19:09:23 GMT
As mint as it is that we've got Collins, Souttar and Ty all coming through at the same time, it's also an albatros around the neck of the club if we don't get promoted sooner rather than later.
All 3 will fetch a pretty penny (Ty probably being worth the most as an attacking player), but I would absolutely love it if we could go up and watch those kids perform in the Premier League with us.
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Post by clarkeda on Dec 7, 2020 20:18:35 GMT
As mint as it is that we've got Collins, Souttar and Ty all coming through at the same time, it's also an albatros around the neck of the club if we don't get promoted sooner rather than later. All 3 will fetch a pretty penny (Ty probably being worth the most as an attacking player), but I would absolutely love it if we could go up and watch those kids perform in the Premier League with us. Even if we don’t go up this year, I reckon we can and will hold on to them all for another go next year. (The main reason Campbell stayed was MON remember).
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Post by liathroid on Feb 24, 2021 9:34:03 GMT
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Post by scfc75 on Feb 24, 2021 9:51:40 GMT
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Post by lordb on Feb 24, 2021 10:14:58 GMT
interesting point re Brexit 14 year olds from RoI very unlikely to be signing here on in
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Feb 24, 2021 10:33:15 GMT
interesting point re Brexit 14 year olds from RoI very unlikely to be signing here on in I rather thought - or at least hoped - that the common travel area we have with the ROI (since ROI independence) would mean that the ROI would not be treated like the rest of the EU as far as young players joining British club academies was concerned. I wonder if any club or clubs will challenge whether a ban on ROI under 18 players joining UK clubs is legal under the common travel area agreement. linkThe agreement specifies rights to travel, reside, work and study - which might suggest that there would be no problem with Irish players joining our Academy.
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Post by PenkPonther on Feb 24, 2021 11:08:40 GMT
We got promoted once before with a team arguably featuring just 3 star players: Shawcross, Fuller and Lawrence.
So there's no reason why we couldn't get promoted again one day soon, just by keeping Souttar, Collins and Campbell in particular.
Hence why I'm not convinced we need to sell any of the crown jewels to fund a promotion bid.
(Especially with other young 'uns having potential too, and Powell already doing the business.)
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Post by bayernoatcake on Feb 24, 2021 11:18:17 GMT
interesting point re Brexit 14 year olds from RoI very unlikely to be signing here on in Ireland is exempt isn't it?
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Post by bayernoatcake on Feb 24, 2021 11:19:52 GMT
interesting point re Brexit 14 year olds from RoI very unlikely to be signing here on in I rather thought - or at least hoped - that the common travel area we have with the ROI (since ROI independence) would mean that the ROI would not be treated like the rest of the EU as far as young players joining British club academies was concerned. I wonder if any club or clubs will challenge whether a ban on ROI under 18 players joining UK clubs is legal under the common travel area agreement. linkThe agreement specifies rights to travel, reside, work and study - which might suggest that there would be no problem with Irish players joining our Academy. Yeah in the area I work in we treat ROI citizens as they're UK citizens so I can't see why it would be different here.
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Post by lordb on Feb 24, 2021 12:06:28 GMT
interesting point re Brexit 14 year olds from RoI very unlikely to be signing here on in Ireland is exempt isn't it? if its is then don't understand the point they make in the article
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Post by Laughing Gravy on Feb 24, 2021 12:32:37 GMT
We got promoted once before with a team arguably featuring just 3 star players: Shawcross, Fuller and Lawrence. So there's no reason why we couldn't get promoted again one day soon, just by keeping Souttar, Collins and Campbell in particular. Hence why I'm not convinced we need to sell any of the crown jewels to fund a promotion bid. (Especially with other young 'uns having potential too, and Powell already doing the business.) I don’t disagree with that mate. The problem comes if/when we have to sell one or more of them to ward off sanction under FFP.
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Post by skemstokie on Feb 24, 2021 12:42:23 GMT
What are people's thoughts? Could he honestly have a career at right back? Is it doing him harm to play there now or is it beneficial to a long career to have a) first team experience and b) experience across the back line. I know that a number of "top" players who were never quite the best got more game time by being reliable in different positions: Wes Brown is one example. Personally I feel he needs to be transitioned over to central defence, but Batth has mostly been fine since his reintroduction and Collins has done better than expected at right back, despite a questionable 5 minutes of craziness versus Wycombe. With Ryan coming back soon and Souttar due to return in a few games, whats the possibility of a back three being formed with Ryan on the left? Definite stick from me if F.F.P. allows,he has potential to be a world beater and seems happy to learn his craft with us. Just keep improving and extending his contract basis to avoid leaving on a free.
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Post by skemstokie on Feb 24, 2021 12:43:27 GMT
interesting point re Brexit 14 year olds from RoI very unlikely to be signing here on in Another reason to regret Brexit
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Post by bayernoatcake on Feb 24, 2021 12:47:29 GMT
Ireland is exempt isn't it? if its is then don't understand the point they make in the article I haven't read it but I've had it suggested to me that it won't affect it and indeed that it means we're going to be going after more Irish players. And outside of football in the work I do, ROI citizens are treated the same as UK citizens under the current rules.
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Post by walrus on Feb 24, 2021 12:52:36 GMT
We got promoted once before with a team arguably featuring just 3 star players: Shawcross, Fuller and Lawrence. So there's no reason why we couldn't get promoted again one day soon, just by keeping Souttar, Collins and Campbell in particular. Hence why I'm not convinced we need to sell any of the crown jewels to fund a promotion bid. (Especially with other young 'uns having potential too, and Powell already doing the business.) I don’t disagree with that mate. The problem comes if/when we have to sell one or more of them to ward off sanction under FFP. If and when we cash in on one of them it’s imperative that we don’t sell cheap and any money left after FFP has been shored up is spent wisely. Brentford paid £5 million plus add ons for Toney. He’s scored 24 and assisted nine in 30 appearances for them. We spent more than that on each of Imbula, Wimmer, Ndiaye, Berahino, Afobe, Ince, Vokes, Etebo, and Woods.
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Post by Championship Potter on Feb 24, 2021 14:16:17 GMT
I don’t disagree with that mate. The problem comes if/when we have to sell one or more of them to ward off sanction under FFP. If and when we cash in on one of them it’s imperative that we don’t sell cheap and any money left after FFP has been shored up is spent wisely. Brentford paid £5 million plus add ons for Toney. He’s scored 24 and assisted nine in 30 appearances for them. We spent more than that on each of Imbula, Wimmer, Ndiaye, Berahino, Afobe, Ince, Vokes, Etebo, and Woods. This was the whole problem when we went down. We committed to signing a load of has beens rather than spending the money on a set of young players to develop / improve over several years.
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Post by Gary Hackett on Feb 24, 2021 18:46:36 GMT
We got promoted once before with a team arguably featuring just 3 star players: Shawcross, Fuller and Lawrence. So there's no reason why we couldn't get promoted again one day soon, just by keeping Souttar, Collins and Campbell in particular. Hence why I'm not convinced we need to sell any of the crown jewels to fund a promotion bid. (Especially with other young 'uns having potential too, and Powell already doing the business.) 3 star players? What about Griffin, Diao, Whelan ?
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Post by PenkPonther on Feb 24, 2021 22:46:40 GMT
Hmmmm... naah!
For me those 3 weren't on the same level that season, sorry Hackett!
Also I think the number of league starts tells who contributed the most to us going up;
Lawrence 40 Shawcross 39 Fuller 39
Griffin 15 Whelan 13 Diao 8
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