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Post by ratters on Jun 24, 2021 19:47:49 GMT
So you have people in the past moaning at what someone like brentford does and has good recruitment, then we do something brentford would do, sell for a price and replace with similar quality for a fraction of the price and plenty of people are up in arms. I dont get it? Or is it that some just want to moan and moan at the club no matter what they do? crap training gear? crap selling of players? replacing with crap? crap that the free coach for away can't be used by everyone? I just dont get the mentality. We are having a bad time, like all clubs do, think sometimes it just needs accepting we are trying to do what we can to improve and get out of it, and not beat the club with every stick at every chance We're now at a level where we need to sell to strengthen. It's just the way it is. If Souttar attracted a bid of £15m tomorrow, I'd probably take that, too. The last piece of the jigsaw is then using the funds well, to build a side capable of challenging. We're not going to see that anytime soon with no money spent. Yes I agree, im not moaning, I think its good business, whether its required, and its what teams like Brentford do, yet when we do similar business, and replace accordingly with someone of a similar quality on paper, i don't see why so many people are up in arms, yet cry out that we don't do any good business, which on the face of it seems to be
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Post by jimigoodwinsbeard on Jun 24, 2021 20:04:16 GMT
We're now at a level where we need to sell to strengthen. It's just the way it is. If Souttar attracted a bid of £15m tomorrow, I'd probably take that, too. The last piece of the jigsaw is then using the funds well, to build a side capable of challenging. We're not going to see that anytime soon with no money spent. Yes I agree, im not moaning, I think its good business, whether its required, and its what teams like Brentford do, yet when we do similar business, and replace accordingly with someone of a similar quality on paper, i don't see why so many people are up in arms, yet cry out that we don't do any good business, which on the face of it seems to be Brentford scouting and recruitment is 50 times better than ours, thats where the issue lies. I wouldn't trust anyone at stoke to pick a gem up, we have no previous.
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Post by bgreen13 on Jun 24, 2021 20:06:13 GMT
Yes I agree, im not moaning, I think its good business, whether its required, and its what teams like Brentford do, yet when we do similar business, and replace accordingly with someone of a similar quality on paper, i don't see why so many people are up in arms, yet cry out that we don't do any good business, which on the face of it seems to be Brentford scouting and recruitment is 50 times better than ours, thats where the issue lies. I wouldn't trust anyone at stoke to pick a gem up, we have no previous. So where do we start? Or can't we start because our fan base is bitter and twisted?
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Post by jimigoodwinsbeard on Jun 24, 2021 20:15:47 GMT
Brentford scouting and recruitment is 50 times better than ours, thats where the issue lies. I wouldn't trust anyone at stoke to pick a gem up, we have no previous. So where do we start? Or can't we start because our fan base is bitter and twisted? We should have started when we got relegated.
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Post by bgreen13 on Jun 24, 2021 20:32:55 GMT
So where do we start? Or can't we start because our fan base is bitter and twisted? We should have started when we got relegated. Should have. So that's it now then. They can never get better?
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Post by shakermaker on Jun 24, 2021 20:36:08 GMT
I think he can do better but also think he will learn a lot from Dyche and you should be able to sell him for 30/40m in 2 years time. I shouldn't be too surprised if Tarkowski stays for his last contract year and Collins is in the reserves. That's how it was for Tarkowski and to some extent Mee. (IF the deal goes ahead. We have discussed long and often about signings that hadn't happened yet and never did.) I too don’t see Collins getting a run in the side if Tarks extends past next June. Dyche always goes tried and trusted. Tarkowski himself only got into the side when Keane left. I’m not sure where else he’d go to be honest - he’s not on the same level Keane was for you - so I can see him staying and Collins talent going to waste. I’m surprised you need Collins when you have Jimmy Dunne busting a gut to get a game.
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Post by shakermaker on Jun 24, 2021 20:37:44 GMT
Why undisclosed? When they publish the accounts it will be obvious.. Hopefully so other clubs don't know how much we've got to spend when we go shopping this summer. If this is the case, then why do clubs need to disclose a fee for their players at all? Surely no club would want anyone else to know their spending power (or lack of).
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Post by bgreen13 on Jun 24, 2021 20:39:58 GMT
Hopefully so other clubs don't know how much we've got to spend when we go shopping this summer. If this is the case, then why do clubs need to disclose a fee for their players at all? Surely no club would want anyone else to know their spending power (or lack of). Not many clubs do apart from the top clubs as they use it as a dick showing contest for their fickle fans
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Post by followyoudown on Jun 24, 2021 20:41:59 GMT
Yes I agree, im not moaning, I think its good business, whether its required, and its what teams like Brentford do, yet when we do similar business, and replace accordingly with someone of a similar quality on paper, i don't see why so many people are up in arms, yet cry out that we don't do any good business, which on the face of it seems to be Brentford scouting and recruitment is 50 times better than ours, thats where the issue lies. I wouldn't trust anyone at stoke to pick a gem up, we have no previous. Yeah I can't believe we are just getting back what we paid for Collins oh hang on......
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Jun 24, 2021 20:52:30 GMT
Yes I agree, im not moaning, I think its good business, whether its required, and its what teams like Brentford do, yet when we do similar business, and replace accordingly with someone of a similar quality on paper, i don't see why so many people are up in arms, yet cry out that we don't do any good business, which on the face of it seems to be Brentford scouting and recruitment is 50 times better than ours, thats where the issue lies. I wouldn't trust anyone at stoke to pick a gem up, we have no previous. So how did we get Collins? Or Campbell? Or Bursik? Or Arnie?
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jun 24, 2021 20:55:49 GMT
Brentford scouting and recruitment is 50 times better than ours, thats where the issue lies. I wouldn't trust anyone at stoke to pick a gem up, we have no previous. So how did we get Collins? Or Campbell? Or Bursik? Or Arnie? It'd be interesting to know how sepearated the academy scouting was/is from the first team. 3 of them could have been picked up by a totally seperate process to the usual one.
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Post by numpty40 on Jun 24, 2021 20:58:30 GMT
We seem to have got £12m for a centre back who wasn't trusted to play centre back in the Championship. Is that the top and bottom of it?
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jun 24, 2021 21:00:45 GMT
We seem to have got £12m for a centre back who wasn't trusted to play centre back in the Championship. Is that the top and bottom of it? Which was terrible management and meant we've got substantially less for a top bollock player.
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Post by Veritas on Jun 24, 2021 21:00:58 GMT
Burnley!!? Why aren’t we waiting for the mega rich clubs to start bidding? Because they weren't interested, if they were they would have easily outbid Burnley.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jun 24, 2021 21:03:22 GMT
Burnley!!? Why aren’t we waiting for the mega rich clubs to start bidding? Because they weren't interested, if they were they would have easily outbid Burnley. Still not quite sure on the rush to sell him. Nothing suggests FFP is an issue.
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Post by numpty40 on Jun 24, 2021 21:04:48 GMT
We seem to have got £12m for a centre back who wasn't trusted to play centre back in the Championship. Is that the top and bottom of it? Which was terrible management and meant we've got substantially less for a top bollock player. We'll see, but successive managers didn't trust him to start at centre back.
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Jun 24, 2021 21:06:08 GMT
Because they weren't interested, if they were they would have easily outbid Burnley. Still not quite sure on the rush to sell him. Nothing suggests FFP is an issue. Maybe not to you - but most of us are convinced that it is a major factor. That fact that there appears to be such a desire to get sales sorted out before the end of our financial year suggests FFP is very much a factor.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jun 24, 2021 21:06:19 GMT
Which was terrible management and meant we've got substantially less for a top bollock player. We'll see, but successive managers didn't trust him to start at centre back. They didn't. One was our worst manager ever and the other is lucky to still be our manager. It's not a great argument.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jun 24, 2021 21:07:35 GMT
Still not quite sure on the rush to sell him. Nothing suggests FFP is an issue. Maybe not to you - but most of us are convinced that it is a major factor. Less though after signing a player for millions after and on a 4 year deal too. And signing a goalkeeper we don't need. It's just not an issue.
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Post by wagsastokie on Jun 24, 2021 21:07:53 GMT
We seem to have got £12m for a centre back who wasn't trusted to play centre back in the Championship. Is that the top and bottom of it? You forgot add on’s
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Post by terryconroysmagic on Jun 24, 2021 21:07:55 GMT
Really hoped we could have kept him. I’d have preferred if we sold Harry
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Post by numpty40 on Jun 24, 2021 21:09:07 GMT
We'll see, but successive managers didn't trust him to start at centre back. They didn't. One was our worst manager ever and the other is lucky to still be our manager. It's not a great argument. But 3 managers who arrived at the club with decent reputations.... surely not all three have failed to see that he should be a starter as a centre back?
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jun 24, 2021 21:15:15 GMT
They didn't. One was our worst manager ever and the other is lucky to still be our manager. It's not a great argument. But 3 managers who arrived at the club with decent reputations.... surely not all three have failed to see that he should be a starter as a centre back? He was too early for Rowett. Jones and MON should have built a team around him. They failed the club. And again, one is our worst manager ever, one is lucky to be our manager and Collins is surpassing the level they're at and are ever likely to get.
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Post by AlbertTatlock on Jun 24, 2021 21:17:43 GMT
Without me having to plough through 18 pages of reading the same post 540 times about how much we should be asking for Collins, has he signed for Burnley yet? Gouranga.
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Post by followyoudown on Jun 24, 2021 21:59:17 GMT
Maybe not to you - but most of us are convinced that it is a major factor. Less though after signing a player for millions after and on a 4 year deal too. And signing a goalkeeper we don't need. It's just not an issue. Actually you don't that is the case the Collins fee will be booked in this years accounts so thats a £11m+ profit this year, if we spend the whole £12m on transfer fees that will be spread over 3 or 4 years so the transfer fee gives us some breathing space.
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Post by lordb on Jun 24, 2021 22:11:30 GMT
Without me having to plough through 18 pages of reading the same post 540 times about how much we should be asking for Collins, has he signed for Burnley yet? Gouranga. Yes he's signed Undisclosed fee Burnley media suggesting record fee for them, their current record is £15m
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jun 24, 2021 22:16:32 GMT
Less though after signing a player for millions after and on a 4 year deal too. And signing a goalkeeper we don't need. It's just not an issue. Actually you don't that is the case the Collins fee will be booked in this years accounts so thats a £11m+ profit this year, if we spend the whole £12m on transfer fees that will be spread over 3 or 4 years so the transfer fee gives us some breathing space. If we have that up front, which hasn't been suggested anywhere. The FFP thing is a massive red herring.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jun 24, 2021 22:17:56 GMT
Without me having to plough through 18 pages of reading the same post 540 times about how much we should be asking for Collins, has he signed for Burnley yet? Gouranga. Yes he's signed Undisclosed fee Burnley media suggesting record fee for them, their current record is £15m They've said "could". Which indicates it "could" be anything.
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Post by followyoudown on Jun 24, 2021 22:23:52 GMT
Actually you don't that is the case the Collins fee will be booked in this years accounts so thats a £11m+ profit this year, if we spend the whole £12m on transfer fees that will be spread over 3 or 4 years so the transfer fee gives us some breathing space. If we have that up front, which hasn't been suggested anywhere. The FFP thing is a massive red herring. He cost £500k wasnt fee most widely quoted is £12m+ add ons, if the £12m is correct thats an £11.5m profit you book immediately on contracts being signed regardless of when the cash is paid, the add ons only get accounted for when they happen or become certain. This coming year we have no premiership tv money although we are shedding the dead wood its still probably a squeeze without generating extra cash.
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Post by bgreen13 on Jun 24, 2021 22:28:48 GMT
Burnleys record transfer fee on someone with limited appearances.
We did well there.
£15mill minimum remember....
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