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Post by FullerMagic on Oct 4, 2020 17:06:39 GMT
www.stokesentinel.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/stoke-city-birmingham-michael-oneill-4575104O'Neill had been disappointed by the previous home league game - a 2-0 defeat to Bristol City - but kept the wing-back system which has been effective away.
He said: "We conceded too many goals last season (playing 4-3-3), it’s as simple as that. Since we moved to three at the back we’re a lot more solid. We’re disappointed to lose the goal today.
"There are areas of the system that we need to look to correct as well. At times we get a bit bogged down in certain areas of the pitch and players need a little bit of work and guidance.
"It’s a work in progress but we have a good shape to the team, I think we’re playing with a good disciplined structure.
"But if necessary if we had to change to a back four we have the personnel to do that."
A lack of home fans means that he is not tempted to change it for home matches.
"Not really," he said. "I don’t think based on home matches. There’s no real home matches at this minute in time, we’re playing in empty stadiums.
"Home or away I think the games are pretty much the same
"I don’t think changing to a four will make us any more attacking because we’re playing with two strikers, two advanced 8s. We have the same number of attacking players on the pitch as we would in a 4-3-3 but it’s just a slightly different formation."
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Post by Staffsoatcake on Oct 4, 2020 17:07:25 GMT
MON must have found the Pulis coaching manual in his desk.
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Post by partickpotter on Oct 4, 2020 17:07:51 GMT
Daft as it sounds I can still see us going on a good run. Problem is because of our tactics we will generally always win or lose by the odd goal. Not positive enough to go up. 5 games in, 2 points off the play offs and 5 points off the drop. It’s a process and we’ll know after 10 games how equipped for a go at the play offs we are I reckon...... This is how I see it. We are at the start of a long race. So long as we are in the pack after 10 games I’m ok.
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Post by stokerstayinup on Oct 4, 2020 17:07:58 GMT
It's the tactics not the system
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Post by Pugsley on Oct 4, 2020 17:10:00 GMT
www.stokesentinel.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/stoke-city-birmingham-michael-oneill-4575104O'Neill had been disappointed by the previous home league game - a 2-0 defeat to Bristol City - but kept the wing-back system which has been effective away.
He said: "We conceded too many goals last season (playing 4-3-3), it’s as simple as that. Since we moved to three at the back we’re a lot more solid. We’re disappointed to lose the goal today.
"There are areas of the system that we need to look to correct as well. At times we get a bit bogged down in certain areas of the pitch and players need a little bit of work and guidance.
"It’s a work in progress but we have a good shape to the team, I think we’re playing with a good disciplined structure.
"But if necessary if we had to change to a back four we have the personnel to do that."
A lack of home fans means that he is not tempted to change it for home matches.
"Not really," he said. "I don’t think based on home matches. There’s no real home matches at this minute in time, we’re playing in empty stadiums.
"Home or away I think the games are pretty much the same
"I don’t think changing to a four will make us any more attacking because we’re playing with two strikers, two advanced 8s. We have the same number of attacking players on the pitch as we would in a 4-3-3 but it’s just a slightly different formation."
It's this kind of level headed thinking that drives the cognoscenti crackers.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Oct 4, 2020 17:10:03 GMT
Midweek we set up in a much more positive version of that system with personnel who made it positive. We didn’t today. We didn’t create loads of chances today. We managed one shot on target, we barely got in their box. If we’re relying on 30 yarders from Fletcher all season something’s not right. Exactly. Its personnel more than system. The system midweek was also a clearer 3-4-1-2 whereas at home it’s been much more of a 3-5-2 with no real proper no 10. If the system’s neither here or there Dave, why has he changed it? Why did it need to change?
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Oct 4, 2020 17:11:03 GMT
www.stokesentinel.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/stoke-city-birmingham-michael-oneill-4575104O'Neill had been disappointed by the previous home league game - a 2-0 defeat to Bristol City - but kept the wing-back system which has been effective away.
He said: "We conceded too many goals last season (playing 4-3-3), it’s as simple as that. Since we moved to three at the back we’re a lot more solid. We’re disappointed to lose the goal today.
"There are areas of the system that we need to look to correct as well. At times we get a bit bogged down in certain areas of the pitch and players need a little bit of work and guidance.
"It’s a work in progress but we have a good shape to the team, I think we’re playing with a good disciplined structure.
"But if necessary if we had to change to a back four we have the personnel to do that."
A lack of home fans means that he is not tempted to change it for home matches.
"Not really," he said. "I don’t think based on home matches. There’s no real home matches at this minute in time, we’re playing in empty stadiums.
"Home or away I think the games are pretty much the same
"I don’t think changing to a four will make us any more attacking because we’re playing with two strikers, two advanced 8s. We have the same number of attacking players on the pitch as we would in a 4-3-3 but it’s just a slightly different formation."
Worrying. He can’t believe that. Some of that is just objectively, flat out wrong.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Oct 4, 2020 17:16:58 GMT
www.stokesentinel.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/stoke-city-birmingham-michael-oneill-4575104O'Neill had been disappointed by the previous home league game - a 2-0 defeat to Bristol City - but kept the wing-back system which has been effective away.
He said: "We conceded too many goals last season (playing 4-3-3), it’s as simple as that. Since we moved to three at the back we’re a lot more solid. We’re disappointed to lose the goal today.
"There are areas of the system that we need to look to correct as well. At times we get a bit bogged down in certain areas of the pitch and players need a little bit of work and guidance.
"It’s a work in progress but we have a good shape to the team, I think we’re playing with a good disciplined structure.
"But if necessary if we had to change to a back four we have the personnel to do that."
A lack of home fans means that he is not tempted to change it for home matches.
"Not really," he said. "I don’t think based on home matches. There’s no real home matches at this minute in time, we’re playing in empty stadiums.
"Home or away I think the games are pretty much the same
"I don’t think changing to a four will make us any more attacking because we’re playing with two strikers, two advanced 8s. We have the same number of attacking players on the pitch as we would in a 4-3-3 but it’s just a slightly different formation."
Jesus wept
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Post by davejohnno1 on Oct 4, 2020 17:17:39 GMT
Exactly. Its personnel more than system. The system midweek was also a clearer 3-4-1-2 whereas at home it’s been much more of a 3-5-2 with no real proper no 10. If the system’s neither here or there Dave, why has he changed it? Why did it need to change? Because we conceded far too many goals? 3-5-2 is a fairly fluid system with the right personell as we saw midweek. Its early days. I'm fairly comfortable with what I'm seeing so far. Maybe it's because I'm more relaxed by not being there in person
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Oct 4, 2020 17:18:49 GMT
The system midweek was also a clearer 3-4-1-2 whereas at home it’s been much more of a 3-5-2 with no real proper no 10. If the system’s neither here or there Dave, why has he changed it? Why did it need to change? Because we conceded far too many goals? 3-5-2 is a fairly fluid system with the right personell as we saw midweek. Its early days. I'm fairly comfortable with what I'm seeing so far. Maybe it's because I'm more relaxed by not being there in person We conceded four goals at home between 1st Jan and the end of the season. We’ve conceded three in two games this season at home with the new system.
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Post by davejohnno1 on Oct 4, 2020 17:20:44 GMT
Because we conceded far too many goals? 3-5-2 is a fairly fluid system with the right personell as we saw midweek. Its early days. I'm fairly comfortable with what I'm seeing so far. Maybe it's because I'm more relaxed by not being there in person We conceded four goals at home between 1st Jan and the end of the season. We’ve conceded three in two games this season at home with the new system. Yet we still ended up with a negative goal difference. I've more issue with the players he's picking than the system he's playing.
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Post by neddy on Oct 4, 2020 17:22:35 GMT
If we continue with 3 at the back it surely has to be Collins Souttar and BMI now?
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Oct 4, 2020 17:22:40 GMT
We conceded four goals at home between 1st Jan and the end of the season. We’ve conceded three in two games this season at home with the new system. Yet we still ended up with a negative goal difference. I've more issue with the players he's picking than the system he's playing. Yes because we’d regularly had our pants pulled down under Jones in the first half of the season and it took MON time to get us organised. It wasn’t perfect at the back but it was better, we were balanced and we were scoring goals at home.
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Post by bgreen13 on Oct 4, 2020 17:26:10 GMT
You mean we have a manager who's stubborn and won't change his philosophies? There's never been any of them before.
I'd prefer one that flip flops just to appease the small section of fan base that aren't ever happy.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Oct 4, 2020 17:27:17 GMT
You mean we have a manager who's stubborn and won't change his philosophies? There's never been any of them before. I'd prefer one that flip flops just to appease the small section of fan base that aren't ever happy. He has changed that’s what’s annoying.
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Post by FullerMagic on Oct 4, 2020 17:27:44 GMT
15 10 2 3 28 11 +17 32
Home record looked great under MON last season. Not sure we needed any tweaking
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Post by GreaterGlasgowstokie on Oct 4, 2020 17:29:26 GMT
Also, if he's going to play this formation at least select the right personnel. What has TOB, Chester, Gregory, Fox done to warrant selection?
The back 3 we played at villa wouldn't have conceded that shite goal.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Oct 4, 2020 17:32:51 GMT
We played 343 on Thursday and it was the most balanced and most fluid I've seen us play all season.
On seeing the team an hour before kickoff I immediately stuck £50 on us to win, I was massively excited by the team O'Neill had chosen and praised him on here as soon as the team was announced for his selection.
When I saw the team he'd chosen today I was extremely disappointed, said as much as soon as it was announced on here and ultimately, wasn't at all surprised to see the dirge that the 3142 dished up.
I have absolutely no idea why he changed the formation, or the personnel, after watching Thursday's performance I fully expected him to stick with it for the foreseeable.
The only changes I would have made today, would have been Fletcher for Vokes and the forced change for Collins through injury.
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Post by milky on Oct 4, 2020 17:48:24 GMT
www.stokesentinel.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/stoke-city-birmingham-michael-oneill-4575104O'Neill had been disappointed by the previous home league game - a 2-0 defeat to Bristol City - but kept the wing-back system which has been effective away.
He said: "We conceded too many goals last season (playing 4-3-3), it’s as simple as that. Since we moved to three at the back we’re a lot more solid. We’re disappointed to lose the goal today.
"There are areas of the system that we need to look to correct as well. At times we get a bit bogged down in certain areas of the pitch and players need a little bit of work and guidance.
"It’s a work in progress but we have a good shape to the team, I think we’re playing with a good disciplined structure.
"But if necessary if we had to change to a back four we have the personnel to do that."
A lack of home fans means that he is not tempted to change it for home matches.
"Not really," he said. "I don’t think based on home matches. There’s no real home matches at this minute in time, we’re playing in empty stadiums.
"Home or away I think the games are pretty much the same
"I don’t think changing to a four will make us any more attacking because we’re playing with two strikers, two advanced 8s. We have the same number of attacking players on the pitch as we would in a 4-3-3 but it’s just a slightly different formation."
Jesus wept Aside from 3 horror shows at Derby,Wigan and Leeds were we really conceding that many goals ? We certainly weren't at home playing a far more adventurous way... And it sounds like he is sticking with it so let's hope we go similar to the Villa game at Luton...
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Post by bayernoatcake on Oct 4, 2020 17:58:24 GMT
Aside from 3 horror shows at Derby,Wigan and Leeds were we really conceding that many goals ? We certainly weren't at home playing a far more adventurous way... And it sounds like he is sticking with it so let's hope we go similar to the Villa game at Luton... We weren’t but I do think we were defending badly on the whole but that was totally down to the players. As I said I wanted the back 6 replacing. Butland - obvious Smith - still not convinced Batth - woeful Chester - beyond woeful Indi - not a left back Cousins - League one player That was my assessment of the back line last season. And with what he’s done we’re on course to have replaced all of them bar Smith. But just play a back 4. The formation didn’t need to change. The intent didn’t need to change. Just the personnel.
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Post by pavel on Oct 4, 2020 18:01:09 GMT
We played 343 on Thursday and it was the most balanced and most fluid I've seen us play all season. On seeing the team an hour before kickoff I immediately stuck £50 on us to win, I was massively excited by the team O'Neill had chosen and praised him on here as soon as the team was announced for his selection. When I saw the team he'd chosen today I was extremely disappointed, said as much as soon as it was announced on here and ultimately, wasn't at all surprised to see the dirge that the 3142 dished up. I have absolutely no idea why he changed the formation, or the personnel, after watching Thursday's performance I fully expected him to stick with it for the foreseeable. The only changes I would have made today, would have been Fletcher for Vokes and the forced change for Collins through injury. Absolutely, though I would have left out Mikel as well, he looked knackered and in many ways slowed us down today. The most positive thing this season is how the younger players have stepped up and given us pace and movement, today was wooden, slow and predictable.
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Post by davejohnno1 on Oct 4, 2020 18:02:14 GMT
15 10 2 3 28 11 +17 32 Home record looked great under MON last season. Not sure we needed any tweaking Maybe he doesn't want to chop and change home v away?
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Post by Squeekster on Oct 4, 2020 18:06:08 GMT
Daft as it sounds I can still see us going on a good run. Problem is because of our tactics we will generally always win or lose by the odd goal. Not positive enough to go up. 5 games in, 2 points off the play offs and 5 points off the drop. It’s a process and we’ll know after 10 games how equipped for a go at the play offs we are I reckon...... I know I've had a few sherbets but have I lost a game?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2020 18:08:42 GMT
5 games in, 2 points off the play offs and 5 points off the drop. It’s a process and we’ll know after 10 games how equipped for a go at the play offs we are I reckon...... I know I've had a few sherbets but have I lost a game? Yeah you’re bladdered. Not really, my mistake.....
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Post by tqstokie on Oct 4, 2020 18:10:19 GMT
We had about 8 minutes left at 1-1 and were still persisting with keeping the ball by passing it backwards and sideways instead of getting it into there box at every opportunity. That would not have happened with Shawcross on the field. I am not saying Shawcross should have been on the field, I am saying he would have driven us forward. Clucas in my view is not captain material and does not lead by example. We need someone like Barry Bannan.
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Post by Squeekster on Oct 4, 2020 18:13:58 GMT
I know I've had a few sherbets but have I lost a game? Yeah you’re bladdered. Not really, my mistake..... Thank fook for that although I've only had two stella's it's potent stuff!
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Post by FullerMagic on Oct 4, 2020 18:14:56 GMT
15 10 2 3 28 11 +17 32 Home record looked great under MON last season. Not sure we needed any tweaking Maybe he doesn't want to chop and change home v away? Maybe so. But was there anything fundamental about the system that wouldn't lend itself to getting results away with upgraded personnel in key areas like Fletcher and Mikel? We slapped Huddersfield, Barnsley, beat West Brom. He must've been spooked by the tonkings at Derby, QPR, Wigan and Leeds. But whether there was anything fundamental that couldn't have been helped by personnel upgrades, who knows? We don't want to throw the baby out with the bath water...
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Post by Squeekster on Oct 4, 2020 18:16:11 GMT
We had about 8 minutes left at 1-1 and were still persisting with keeping the ball by passing it backwards and sideways instead of getting it into there box at every opportunity. That would not have happened with Shawcross on the field. I am not saying Shawcross should have been on the field, I am saying he would have driven us forward. Clucas in my view is not captain material and does not lead by example. We need someone like Barry Bannan. I'm not sure about Mikel in this team, yeah he's safe but that's about it, in all honesty I could that this team and I'm 50!
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Post by Squeekster on Oct 4, 2020 18:19:52 GMT
Maybe he doesn't want to chop and change home v away? Maybe so. But was there anything fundamental about the system that wouldn't lend itself to getting results away with upgraded personnel in key areas like Fletcher and Mikel? We slapped Huddersfield, Barnsley, beat West Brom. He must've been spooked by the tonkings at Derby, QPR, Wigan and Leeds. But whether there was anything fundamental that couldn't have been helped by personnel upgrades, who knows? We don't want to throw the baby out with the bath water... In his post match interview he did say it's needs working on so lets hope he is seeing what we are and learns from it, although I still think he is definitely the right man for job.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2020 18:25:35 GMT
I've just done a quick number grab from last season and this season.
Last season we averaged 12.2 shots per game, 4.2 shots on target per game and 1.5 goals per game under O'Neill with his back four system.
Including the last two games of last season where he used his 5 at the back system, and this season we are averaging 10.5 shots per game, 2.5 shots on target per game and 1.2 goals per game.
The stats are skewed somewhat by the game at Forest, where we had 4 shots on goal and scored all 4. This alters the efficiency of that particular system by quite a distance. I can only assume, without further stats to look at, that the decrease in Shots to Shots on Target ratio is because we are having more shots from distance because we aren't getting enough bodies in and around the box this season?
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