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Post by kjpt140v on Mar 3, 2020 10:20:30 GMT
No but its what a police officer did you said they don't. Can you find where I said they don't? That will be interesting.
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Post by JoeinOz on Mar 3, 2020 11:04:40 GMT
It seems there might well have been a few dickheads around but well organised police should be able to handle a few dickheads with a minimum of fuss and without disrupting the rights of the vast majority of people. Nobody is excusing the dickhead behaviour but it seems the police have more explaining to do than the supporters.
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Post by mrcholmondleywarner on Mar 3, 2020 13:48:49 GMT
I know all about Manchester and the police were out of order with a predetermined plan. Luton was a case where fighting or even a riot was possible. The police had to act and sadly the innocent get caught up with it. From what I saw kids and other innocents were being pushed roughly by the cops because the cops were trying to break up the thugs. Of course the thugs were pushing just as determinedly again impinging on the innocent. If I'd have seen batons being used on kids and adults I'd have been the first to complain. Make no mistake I'm no lover of cops when they overstep the mark. I was at the front of the que in Oak road after the game with my two sons. Let there be no mistake about this, This was quite clearly caused by Plod and Plod only! I have been travelling to away games since 1968 and have witnessed all sorts of shenanigans. However I have not seen these tactics used by the Police for a very long time. They antagonised the fans and there was absolutely no need for it! 100% Correct; I too was a the front of the queue, on the right-hand side. Apart from the copper directly in front of us who seemed generally OK, this was caused by the Police tactics and there was absolutely no need - all they did was to create an angry mass of people who were just desperate to get the hell out of Luton and back home as quickly as possible.
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Post by mrcholmondleywarner on Mar 3, 2020 14:07:30 GMT
Copy of email issued to amanda.jacks@thefas.org.uk Amanda, I trust you have been keeping an eye on the Stoke City Fanzine, the Oatcake, along with Malcolm Clark. There are various testimonies: The police tactics were baffling and created flash points rather than preventing them. It started with them trying to kettle ALL of our fans in Oak Rd behind the away end after the game. People got impatient with that and the barrier was then breached, no doubt by some of our ‘lads’ and then a police chase ensued all the way into town with them trying to block off the main road back to the station to ALL Stoke fans. Women, children, old people all got the same treatment and for what benefit? What major public disturbance did they stop? What innocent bystanders did they protect? That all said there were a sizeable number within our support who were up for trouble and that’s probably why the police were big in numbers and so jumpy, but their tactics were brainless and treated everyone as a hooligan. When we eventually made it back to the town centre we found a pub full of Luton fans, some of whom the police might consider in the ‘at risk’ category but we had a great time chatting and drinking with them. Same as is normal THESE days. The police tactics created plenty of drama and annoyance but achieved absolutely nothing else. What happened at the bottom of the street, outside the ground was so clearly a huge risk. We left bang on the full-time whistle as we were on a fixed train from Euston therefore we were, for want of a better phrase on the “front t line.” As soon as the few hundred travelling fans left the ground it was inevitable that the crowd would swell and the pressure on those at the front would increase. To be honest, I stood there and waited for it to happen as I couldn’t done anything else. The push started, Police broke lines and I started to walk towards the end of the Street. Police became a bit more excitable with us at the front with my mate going over on the ground and me staring at the teeth of a dog. Police were pushing back but, in all honesty, had lost the plot and their behaviour demonstrated that. All of the young Police on the front line were telling us that it was the God in the sky dictating orders supported by an older Police officer in a blue jacket. The God in the sky was the helicopter…… It was a total over reaction that could have gone very wrong. We got to the Station quickly, ended up in London too late for the train we booked on and Avanti staff refused to give us another ticket saying that we hadn’t left enough time. In summary, it was a load of young Police officers taking orders from a more senior source who should have demonstrated a more common-sense an mature approach to modern Policing. Where do you start?? What on earth was all of that about. The Police decided in their typical fucktardery to hold the Stoke fans back at the end of Oak Road. After about 15-20 minutes folks were getting cold and anxious about missing their trains - many were on fixed return tickets - the Police simply stood firm until the crowd they were holding back numbered a few hundred. Enough was enough and the Stokies surged forward and broke the Police lines, it kicked off a bit but Plod were absolutely hopeless, helpless and useless and of course 100% responsible for causing this. Someone at the main Control must have pressed the red button as walking back to our car I've never seen so many blue lights, and riot vans - the overtime must have been incredible.... What happened to the fans heading back to the railway station I don't know but all I can say I've not been treated like this for many a long year... Absolutely correct, I also have not seen anything like this for many a year! It was all down to Plod (Not the guys forming the barrier, they just didn't have a clue) The guy who seemed to be in charge was the guy with the grey beard, I think his number was 221. If he wasn't making the decisions, he should certainly have "fed back" It was all so unnecessary. People became agitated the longer it went on but it wasn't until about half a dozen brave Luton souls started giving it large from the end of the street. That triggered the pushing until the line broke. As we went around the corner Plod tried again to form a barrier but now with baton's raised (some of them looked terrified!) This barrier was quite amusing as people were pouring along the pavement whilst the constabulary were stopping people passing on the road. They then tried to force everyone to go to the station, My son said that we were trying to get to our car and had no intention of going to the station, the guy just could not comprehend this and again said that we were going to the station, along with several others we just walked past him. As the poster above states, whilst all of this is going on there are sirens going off in every direction. Just so unnecessary, The match commander should be disciplined for his actions! If you need formal testimonies, I would happily provide one and post on the oatcake for others to come forward. This disgraceful exhibition should not be allowed and the Police should be investigated. You are welcome to call me on the number below if you wish. There is a video of the police beating a couple of fans - www.bing.com/videos/search?q=fan+beaten+by+baton&&view=detail&mid=CD0797F3EA30DC58BC67CD0797F3EA30DC58BC67&&FORM=VRDGAR&ru=%2Fvideos%2Fsearch%3Fq%3Dfan%2Bbeaten%2Bby%2Bbaton%26FORM%3DHDRSC3One further thing – there were three police dogs on duty – German Shepherd – all were being thoroughly wound up by their handlers continually snatching at their leads – I’m a Staffordshire Bull Terrier owner so I know how to treat dogs in order to provoke a reaction from them…
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2020 14:09:22 GMT
' - all they did was to create an angry mass of people who were just desperate to get the hell out of Luton and back home as quickly as possible.'
I think that sums up anyone who has visited Luton since 1876
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Post by Billy the kid on Mar 3, 2020 17:36:57 GMT
Copy of email issued to amanda.jacks@thefas.org.uk Amanda, I trust you have been keeping an eye on the Stoke City Fanzine, the Oatcake, along with Malcolm Clark. There are various testimonies: The police tactics were baffling and created flash points rather than preventing them. It started with them trying to kettle ALL of our fans in Oak Rd behind the away end after the game. People got impatient with that and the barrier was then breached, no doubt by some of our ‘lads’ and then a police chase ensued all the way into town with them trying to block off the main road back to the station to ALL Stoke fans. Women, children, old people all got the same treatment and for what benefit? What major public disturbance did they stop? What innocent bystanders did they protect? That all said there were a sizeable number within our support who were up for trouble and that’s probably why the police were big in numbers and so jumpy, but their tactics were brainless and treated everyone as a hooligan. When we eventually made it back to the town centre we found a pub full of Luton fans, some of whom the police might consider in the ‘at risk’ category but we had a great time chatting and drinking with them. Same as is normal THESE days. The police tactics created plenty of drama and annoyance but achieved absolutely nothing else. What happened at the bottom of the street, outside the ground was so clearly a huge risk. We left bang on the full-time whistle as we were on a fixed train from Euston therefore we were, for want of a better phrase on the “front t line.” As soon as the few hundred travelling fans left the ground it was inevitable that the crowd would swell and the pressure on those at the front would increase. To be honest, I stood there and waited for it to happen as I couldn’t done anything else. The push started, Police broke lines and I started to walk towards the end of the Street. Police became a bit more excitable with us at the front with my mate going over on the ground and me staring at the teeth of a dog. Police were pushing back but, in all honesty, had lost the plot and their behaviour demonstrated that. All of the young Police on the front line were telling us that it was the God in the sky dictating orders supported by an older Police officer in a blue jacket. The God in the sky was the helicopter…… It was a total over reaction that could have gone very wrong. We got to the Station quickly, ended up in London too late for the train we booked on and Avanti staff refused to give us another ticket saying that we hadn’t left enough time. In summary, it was a load of young Police officers taking orders from a more senior source who should have demonstrated a more common-sense an mature approach to modern Policing. Where do you start?? What on earth was all of that about. The Police decided in their typical fucktardery to hold the Stoke fans back at the end of Oak Road. After about 15-20 minutes folks were getting cold and anxious about missing their trains - many were on fixed return tickets - the Police simply stood firm until the crowd they were holding back numbered a few hundred. Enough was enough and the Stokies surged forward and broke the Police lines, it kicked off a bit but Plod were absolutely hopeless, helpless and useless and of course 100% responsible for causing this. Someone at the main Control must have pressed the red button as walking back to our car I've never seen so many blue lights, and riot vans - the overtime must have been incredible.... What happened to the fans heading back to the railway station I don't know but all I can say I've not been treated like this for many a long year... Absolutely correct, I also have not seen anything like this for many a year! It was all down to Plod (Not the guys forming the barrier, they just didn't have a clue) The guy who seemed to be in charge was the guy with the grey beard, I think his number was 221. If he wasn't making the decisions, he should certainly have "fed back" It was all so unnecessary. People became agitated the longer it went on but it wasn't until about half a dozen brave Luton souls started giving it large from the end of the street. That triggered the pushing until the line broke. As we went around the corner Plod tried again to form a barrier but now with baton's raised (some of them looked terrified!) This barrier was quite amusing as people were pouring along the pavement whilst the constabulary were stopping people passing on the road. They then tried to force everyone to go to the station, My son said that we were trying to get to our car and had no intention of going to the station, the guy just could not comprehend this and again said that we were going to the station, along with several others we just walked past him. As the poster above states, whilst all of this is going on there are sirens going off in every direction. Just so unnecessary, The match commander should be disciplined for his actions! If you need formal testimonies, I would happily provide one and post on the oatcake for others to come forward. This disgraceful exhibition should not be allowed and the Police should be investigated. You are welcome to call me on the number below if you wish. There is a video of the police beating a couple of fans - www.bing.com/videos/search?q=fan+beaten+by+baton&&view=detail&mid=CD0797F3EA30DC58BC67CD0797F3EA30DC58BC67&&FORM=VRDGAR&ru=%2Fvideos%2Fsearch%3Fq%3Dfan%2Bbeaten%2Bby%2Bbaton%26FORM%3DHDRSC3One further thing – there were three police dogs on duty – German Shepherd – all were being thoroughly wound up by their handlers continually snatching at their leads – I’m a Staffordshire Bull Terrier owner so I know how to treat dogs in order to provoke a reaction from them… Only one thing that I would take issue, is that if you were in a fixed return ticket, why did you have around for a drink with the locals afterwards?
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Post by BristolMick on Mar 3, 2020 17:43:24 GMT
Copy of email issued to amanda.jacks@thefas.org.uk Amanda, I trust you have been keeping an eye on the Stoke City Fanzine, the Oatcake, along with Malcolm Clark. There are various testimonies: The police tactics were baffling and created flash points rather than preventing them. It started with them trying to kettle ALL of our fans in Oak Rd behind the away end after the game. People got impatient with that and the barrier was then breached, no doubt by some of our ‘lads’ and then a police chase ensued all the way into town with them trying to block off the main road back to the station to ALL Stoke fans. Women, children, old people all got the same treatment and for what benefit? What major public disturbance did they stop? What innocent bystanders did they protect? That all said there were a sizeable number within our support who were up for trouble and that’s probably why the police were big in numbers and so jumpy, but their tactics were brainless and treated everyone as a hooligan. When we eventually made it back to the town centre we found a pub full of Luton fans, some of whom the police might consider in the ‘at risk’ category but we had a great time chatting and drinking with them. Same as is normal THESE days. The police tactics created plenty of drama and annoyance but achieved absolutely nothing else. What happened at the bottom of the street, outside the ground was so clearly a huge risk. We left bang on the full-time whistle as we were on a fixed train from Euston therefore we were, for want of a better phrase on the “front t line.” As soon as the few hundred travelling fans left the ground it was inevitable that the crowd would swell and the pressure on those at the front would increase. To be honest, I stood there and waited for it to happen as I couldn’t done anything else. The push started, Police broke lines and I started to walk towards the end of the Street. Police became a bit more excitable with us at the front with my mate going over on the ground and me staring at the teeth of a dog. Police were pushing back but, in all honesty, had lost the plot and their behaviour demonstrated that. All of the young Police on the front line were telling us that it was the God in the sky dictating orders supported by an older Police officer in a blue jacket. The God in the sky was the helicopter…… It was a total over reaction that could have gone very wrong. We got to the Station quickly, ended up in London too late for the train we booked on and Avanti staff refused to give us another ticket saying that we hadn’t left enough time. In summary, it was a load of young Police officers taking orders from a more senior source who should have demonstrated a more common-sense an mature approach to modern Policing. Where do you start?? What on earth was all of that about. The Police decided in their typical fucktardery to hold the Stoke fans back at the end of Oak Road. After about 15-20 minutes folks were getting cold and anxious about missing their trains - many were on fixed return tickets - the Police simply stood firm until the crowd they were holding back numbered a few hundred. Enough was enough and the Stokies surged forward and broke the Police lines, it kicked off a bit but Plod were absolutely hopeless, helpless and useless and of course 100% responsible for causing this. Someone at the main Control must have pressed the red button as walking back to our car I've never seen so many blue lights, and riot vans - the overtime must have been incredible.... What happened to the fans heading back to the railway station I don't know but all I can say I've not been treated like this for many a long year... Absolutely correct, I also have not seen anything like this for many a year! It was all down to Plod (Not the guys forming the barrier, they just didn't have a clue) The guy who seemed to be in charge was the guy with the grey beard, I think his number was 221. If he wasn't making the decisions, he should certainly have "fed back" It was all so unnecessary. People became agitated the longer it went on but it wasn't until about half a dozen brave Luton souls started giving it large from the end of the street. That triggered the pushing until the line broke. As we went around the corner Plod tried again to form a barrier but now with baton's raised (some of them looked terrified!) This barrier was quite amusing as people were pouring along the pavement whilst the constabulary were stopping people passing on the road. They then tried to force everyone to go to the station, My son said that we were trying to get to our car and had no intention of going to the station, the guy just could not comprehend this and again said that we were going to the station, along with several others we just walked past him. As the poster above states, whilst all of this is going on there are sirens going off in every direction. Just so unnecessary, The match commander should be disciplined for his actions! If you need formal testimonies, I would happily provide one and post on the oatcake for others to come forward. This disgraceful exhibition should not be allowed and the Police should be investigated. You are welcome to call me on the number below if you wish. There is a video of the police beating a couple of fans - www.bing.com/videos/search?q=fan+beaten+by+baton&&view=detail&mid=CD0797F3EA30DC58BC67CD0797F3EA30DC58BC67&&FORM=VRDGAR&ru=%2Fvideos%2Fsearch%3Fq%3Dfan%2Bbeaten%2Bby%2Bbaton%26FORM%3DHDRSC3One further thing – there were three police dogs on duty – German Shepherd – all were being thoroughly wound up by their handlers continually snatching at their leads – I’m a Staffordshire Bull Terrier owner so I know how to treat dogs in order to provoke a reaction from them… Only one thing that I would take issue, is that if you were in a fixed return ticket, why did you have around for a drink with the locals afterwards? There are several different testimonials in the post. BM
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Post by Billy the kid on Mar 3, 2020 17:53:05 GMT
Only one thing that I would take issue, is that if you were in a fixed return ticket, why did you have around for a drink with the locals afterwards? There are several different testimonials in the post. BM Opps
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Post by poolepotter on Mar 3, 2020 19:52:42 GMT
When we came out of the ground Saturday i was no where near the front in Oak road. But when everybody started pushing forward and getting through i was pushed to the front! One copper said to everybody get back i had no chance next thing he smacked me straight a cross the top of my leg. The coppers there Saturday tarnished every supporter as a animal they caused all the problems! To many of them hide behind the uniform.
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Post by chesterfieldstokie on Mar 3, 2020 20:11:21 GMT
No but its what a police officer did you said they don't. Can you find where I said they don't? That will be interesting. 'Nobody was ever speaking about children being beaten by baton I don't even know why you brought up such a scenario, it never happened.' That do you?
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Post by kjpt140v on Mar 4, 2020 8:48:20 GMT
Can you find where I said they don't? That will be interesting. 'Nobody was ever speaking about children being beaten by baton I don't even know why you brought up such a scenario, it never happened.' That do you? That's desperate, it doesn't say anything about my saying police don't use batons. You're going to have to do better than that.
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Post by Davef on Mar 4, 2020 9:13:23 GMT
When we came out of the ground Saturday i was no where near the front in Oak road. But when everybody started pushing forward and getting through i was pushed to the front! One copper said to everybody get back i had no chance next thing he smacked me straight a cross the top of my leg. The coppers there Saturday tarnished every supporter as a animal they caused all the problems! To many of them hide behind the uniform. I was right at the front. When the surge started I was told to stop pushing. That's how thick they are.
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Post by littleleo on Mar 4, 2020 12:25:02 GMT
Good email. However need to point out that this video isn't from the Luton v Stoke game. It's from a Barnsley v Sheffield Weds match.
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Post by madnellie on Mar 4, 2020 16:43:11 GMT
When we came out of the ground Saturday i was no where near the front in Oak road. But when everybody started pushing forward and getting through i was pushed to the front! One copper said to everybody get back i had no chance next thing he smacked me straight a cross the top of my leg. The coppers there Saturday tarnished every supporter as a animal they caused all the problems! To many of them hide behind the uniform. That's absolutely disgusting. Surely that's assault?
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Post by 1982stokie on Mar 6, 2020 13:28:46 GMT
I will never Forget 2 incidents at football involving the police, Wigan away after Stanley Mathews Passed when we were all ushered down into the concourse, we were then trapped under there with people getting crushed in the panic the police just draw batons and went to town, the image that sticks with me was a guy getting hit by a police man 3 times twice on the back once on his head his head was pouring with blood but he never raised his hands. when the copper left him he turned to face us and was holding his little girl in his arms, that sickens me to this day.
Second one was away at the Vale I was only about 14 and a small kid, after the match I got separated from my friend and his dad who took me so I went and stood next to a copper because it was kicking off, he looked at me and told me to move, I told him I got separated and need to find them he just pointed his baton at me and said fucking move now, at that point my mates Dad saw me and grabbed me.
Football fans have always been an easy target and always will, yes there are idiots but they wouldn't get away with this in another situation.
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Post by PotteringThrough on Mar 6, 2020 13:35:25 GMT
I will never Forget 2 incidents at football involving the police, Wigan away after Stanley Mathews Passed when we were all ushered down into the concourse, we were then trapped under there with people getting crushed in the panic the police just draw batons and went to town, the image that sticks with me was a guy getting hit by a police man 3 times twice on the back once on his head his head was pouring with blood but he never raised his hands. when the copper left him he turned to face us and was holding his little girl in his arms, that sickens me to this day. ... Football fans have always been an easy target and always will, yes there are idiots but they wouldn't get away with this in another situation. To your first point, that is shocking. To your final point - spot on. It is a disgrace that football fans are treated like this in this day and age. Majority are there, following the rules and watching the match. There are some troublemakers but they are the minority - just like some people shoplift, doesn't mean everyone in Tesco is a thief. The police should do their job properly and deal with the idiots, the tactic of treating all as criminals should not e acceptable in this day and age.
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Post by NorwichStokie on Mar 6, 2020 15:59:07 GMT
Like many other people, I couldn't get a ticket for this game (and now I'm quite glad). Reading the accounts above, I really struggle to grasp the point of detaining so many people for so long. Surely it just encourages away supporters to book later trains (in case they get held back by the police), which for most occasions (when they don't get held back) will mean they just end up hanging around or drinking in local pubs whilst they wait for trains, resulting in an even greater chance of trouble.
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Post by BristolMick on Mar 6, 2020 17:50:31 GMT
Like many other people, I couldn't get a ticket for this game (and now I'm quite glad). Reading the accounts above, I really struggle to grasp the point of detaining so many people for so long. Surely it just encourages away supporters to book later trains (in case they get held back by the police), which for most occasions (when they don't get held back) will mean they just end up hanging around or drinking in local pubs whilst they wait for trains, resulting in an even greater chance of trouble. We had no bother from the locals mate in fact we had a good drink with some of them, we only had bother from the plod. BM
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Post by boshinthekipper on Mar 6, 2020 18:00:47 GMT
Few young police officers well out of their depth. Couple of sound ones but others had coshes out trying whack folk and at least 2 had no control of their dogs.
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