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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2020 13:04:59 GMT
A good player can play badly, but a bad player cannot play well. I saw plenty of him at Brentford (I'm not a Stokie, btw) and trust me, he showed real ability. Fact that he hasn't ever done it for Villa possibly says more about a struggling club managed by "panic buy" Bruce, than him and all the other players who flopped after arriving at Villa Park. (How is eg Kodija doing these days?) Or do you defend the signings policy pursued by the club?
Kodjia was signed to be a good championship striker and was for the most part. Not sure what he has to do with it. I 100% agree that being a panic buy didn't help, and lots of villa fans defended Hogan with the same excuses. The system didn't suit him, he wasn't getting the service (even though we had grealish, snodgrass and adomah in the side) but it didn't take too long for most fans to see that was rubbish. He is 27 years old and has achieved a 32 game successful spell at this level and people bang on about it like he's proven quality because of it. Have a guess who was Brentford manager when he had this amazing spell? And yet when Dean Smith had him in the villa squad, with a few injury issues, did he have faith in him? Not at all. So the manager, who got the career best spell out of him, had no interest in him. What does that tell you about the system excuse? And then he has come here and failed as well. And a shit team like Birmingham are the only ones willing to take a chance on him. If you think 32 games makes someone a good player then you've set the bar pretty low. It’s also unreasonable to use it against a player. He played in the lower leagues and continued to score as he moved up the divisions, including his time in the Championship. He doesn’t do much apart from score goals, but if he played 85 minutes of terrible football and scored the winner, how many people would really care? He does need a 2 man strike partnership though it seems to bring balance to it all, or at the very least, an attacking midfielder sitting behind.
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Post by pabloavfc on Jan 28, 2020 15:50:06 GMT
Kodjia was signed to be a good championship striker and was for the most part. Not sure what he has to do with it. I 100% agree that being a panic buy didn't help, and lots of villa fans defended Hogan with the same excuses. The system didn't suit him, he wasn't getting the service (even though we had grealish, snodgrass and adomah in the side) but it didn't take too long for most fans to see that was rubbish. He is 27 years old and has achieved a 32 game successful spell at this level and people bang on about it like he's proven quality because of it. Have a guess who was Brentford manager when he had this amazing spell? And yet when Dean Smith had him in the villa squad, with a few injury issues, did he have faith in him? Not at all. So the manager, who got the career best spell out of him, had no interest in him. What does that tell you about the system excuse? And then he has come here and failed as well. And a shit team like Birmingham are the only ones willing to take a chance on him. If you think 32 games makes someone a good player then you've set the bar pretty low. It’s also unreasonable to use it against a player. He played in the lower leagues and continued to score as he moved up the divisions, including his time in the Championship. He doesn’t do much apart from score goals, but if he played 85 minutes of terrible football and scored the winner, how many people would really care? He does need a 2 man strike partnership though it seems to bring balance to it all, or at the very least, an attacking midfielder sitting behind. But he doesn't. His goal scoring has been abysmal since leaving Brentford. So he isn't playing well and isn't scoring goals.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2020 16:24:12 GMT
It’s also unreasonable to use it against a player. He played in the lower leagues and continued to score as he moved up the divisions, including his time in the Championship. He doesn’t do much apart from score goals, but if he played 85 minutes of terrible football and scored the winner, how many people would really care? He does need a 2 man strike partnership though it seems to bring balance to it all, or at the very least, an attacking midfielder sitting behind. But he doesn't. His goal scoring has been abysmal since leaving Brentford. So he isn't playing well and isn't scoring goals. I mean, he couldn’t make it in the prem, that’s not exactly surprising or uncommon. He played for Sheff Utd and got a couple in few appearances. He played for us and in the games where he played in a front two, he looked like scoring or did score if on the pitch for more than 5 mins at a time. He is a bit of a luxury, in that he is incapable of doing anything solo, certainly not suiting our formation now, but he will likely have a reasonable career scoring in this division or the one below.
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Post by Gary Hackett on Jan 28, 2020 16:30:35 GMT
He'll score lots of goals in league 1.
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Post by rickyfullerbeer on Jan 28, 2020 16:45:03 GMT
Ideal if we can get rid of both Hogan and Duffy
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Post by markby on Jan 28, 2020 18:47:57 GMT
Have a guess who was Brentford manager when he had this amazing spell? And yet when Dean Smith had him in the villa squad, with a few injury issues, did he have faith in him? Not at all. So the manager, who got the career best spell out of him, had no interest in him. What does that tell you about the system excuse? And then he has come here and failed as well. And a shit team like Birmingham are the only ones willing to take a chance on him. If you think 32 games makes someone a good player then you've set the bar pretty low. Smith was quite happy when he had Scott Hogan at BFC, thank you very much.
But by the time he took over at Villa, do you really think he could disassemble a previous manager's whole set-up at a stroke, to accommodate one injury-prone striker?
As for the "32 games etc", a player can flatter to deceive over a couple of games, three or four, half a dozen, maybe. But a bad player cannot bluff his way to appearing excellent over a more extended period, especially one which was interruped by serious injury
Or do you imagine Villa/the market valued him at £10m out of charity?
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Post by markby on Jan 28, 2020 18:58:58 GMT
I don't think I've ever seen a striker who - excluding goals - brings so little to the table. If he's not scoring he contributes roughly the same as a park bench strategically placed in the opposition half would. So unless he's in a team creating chance after chance and blowing teams away he's totally ineffectual. Ruud van Nistelrooy scored 95 goals in 150 league games for Man U. I think I'm right in saying precisely one of those was from outside the penalty area i.e. he was a pure finisher, and a selfish one at that.
But in the end, Fergie sold him because the need to play everything through him up front was stifling his other creative players, so that after he left, Man U actually improved.
But here's the thing. He left for Real Madrid at the age of 30, where he scored 46 goals in 68 La Liga games, despite suffering injury problems and having to share the limelight with a certain Christiano Ronaldo.
Now I'm not comparing Hogan to RvN (as if!), but they are both good examples of "Horses for courses" (and not just because RvN has a face like a horse!)
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jan 28, 2020 19:00:54 GMT
I really don’t get how anyone who has watched Hogan for us can defend him.
Awful when started. Useful sub. Absolute nothing player.
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Post by clarkeda on Jan 28, 2020 19:32:57 GMT
I really don’t get how anyone who has watched Hogan for us can defend him. Awful when started. Useful sub. Absolute nothing player. Offers us a slight goal threat, which Gregory doesn’t unless the ball is stationary 12 yards out
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jan 28, 2020 19:34:48 GMT
I really don’t get how anyone who has watched Hogan for us can defend him. Awful when started. Useful sub. Absolute nothing player. Offers us a slight goal threat, which Gregory doesn’t unless the ball is stationary 12 yards out Combine the two and you have a good player. As it stands, neither are up to standard.
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Post by rawli on Jan 28, 2020 20:48:42 GMT
nope never seen either play but do reserve the right to comment If that’s ok with you “Let’s hope we get”........then if they aren’t up to it will be you be blaming the manager? Yes. I would blame the manager if they don't work out. Presumably him and his team have scouted the fuck out of the Scottish leagues for Northern Irish players so know what they will have seen them before.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2020 20:52:42 GMT
I don't think I've ever seen a striker who - excluding goals - brings so little to the table. If he's not scoring he contributes roughly the same as a park bench strategically placed in the opposition half would. So unless he's in a team creating chance after chance and blowing teams away he's totally ineffectual. Ruud van Nistelrooy scored 95 goals in 150 league games for Man U. I think I'm right in saying precisely one of those was from outside the penalty area i.e. he was a pure finisher, and a selfish one at that. But in the end, Fergie sold him because the need to play everything through him up front was stifling his other creative players, so that after he left, Man U actually improved. But here's the thing. He left for Real Madrid at the age of 30, where he scored 46 goals in 68 La Liga games, despite suffering injury problems and having to share the limelight with a certain Christiano Ronaldo. Now I'm not comparing Hogan to RvN (as if!), but they are both good examples of "Horses for courses" (and not just because RvN has a face like a horse!)
I refer you to my final couple of sentences. Hogan isn’t playing in a team that are flying and creating chance after chance, so he’s as much use as tits on a fish......
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Post by markby on Jan 29, 2020 1:11:35 GMT
Hogan isn’t playing in a team that are flying and creating chance after chance, so he’s as much use as tits on a fish...... Fair enough.
But that's not the same as saying he's total crap (i.e. without any real attributes), which is what some other people are claiming.
As I say, put him in the right team and there should still be a player in there.
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Post by davejohnno1 on Jan 29, 2020 6:42:34 GMT
Hogan isn’t playing in a team that are flying and creating chance after chance, so he’s as much use as tits on a fish...... Fair enough. But that's not the same as saying he's total crap (i.e. without any real attributes), which is what some other people are claiming.
As I say, put him in the right team and there should still be a player in there.
Hogan is a shining beacon of hope to all young kids in football academies. If he can make it, everyone has a chance. Absolute crap. A joke of a player. Has he gone yet?
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jan 29, 2020 7:35:48 GMT
Hogan isn’t playing in a team that are flying and creating chance after chance, so he’s as much use as tits on a fish...... Fair enough. But that's not the same as saying he's total crap (i.e. without any real attributes), which is what some other people are claiming.
As I say, put him in the right team and there should still be a player in there.
What is the right team though? When was the last time he looked like this apparent Jamie Vardy character? We've seen scant sign of any pace or strength. This is the fourth manager now who can't find a use for him?
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Post by hyaduck on Jan 29, 2020 8:19:38 GMT
Fair enough. But that's not the same as saying he's total crap (i.e. without any real attributes), which is what some other people are claiming.
As I say, put him in the right team and there should still be a player in there.
Hogan is a shining beacon of hope to all young kids in football academies. If he can make it, everyone has a chance. Absolute crap. A joke of a player. Has he gone yet? So what do you base that on Messi?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2020 8:29:36 GMT
Hogan isn’t playing in a team that are flying and creating chance after chance, so he’s as much use as tits on a fish...... Fair enough. But that's not the same as saying he's total crap (i.e. without any real attributes), which is what some other people are claiming.
As I say, put him in the right team and there should still be a player in there.
He literally has one attribute, he knows where the goal is. There isn’t many teams that can carry passengers like that unfortunately.......
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Post by davejohnno1 on Jan 29, 2020 11:18:56 GMT
Hogan is a shining beacon of hope to all young kids in football academies. If he can make it, everyone has a chance. Absolute crap. A joke of a player. Has he gone yet? So what do you base that on Messi? My eyes. He's a shite footballer. You dont need to be messi to see that.
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Post by crouchpotato1 on Jan 29, 2020 11:28:38 GMT
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Post by FullerMagic on Jan 29, 2020 12:02:44 GMT
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Post by FullerMagic on Jan 29, 2020 12:03:24 GMT
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Post by Absolution on Jan 29, 2020 12:05:19 GMT
Goddamn it, I come on here to tell everyone that Hogan's been recalled by the Villa and you're already one step further down the road.
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Post by gingerninja on Jan 29, 2020 12:05:40 GMT
Recalled my arse😃
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2020 12:09:01 GMT
Played in a 2 alongside a target man and he'll score goals
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Post by ethers26 on Jan 29, 2020 12:16:06 GMT
Played in a 2 alongside a target man and he'll score goals Stupid decision. He'll be playing alongside a very good target man in Jutkiewicz and they'll score a lot together.
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Post by jezzascfc on Jan 29, 2020 12:25:27 GMT
Best out the door if MON does not fancy him. I trust MON's judgement on that one, given how splendidly he has gone about his business so far.
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Post by werrington on Jan 29, 2020 12:31:20 GMT
Villa recalling means we are not stuck with supplementing his Birmingham wage
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Post by Fred Merger on Jan 29, 2020 12:39:52 GMT
Another wage saved. Next Duffy!
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Post by chigstoke on Jan 29, 2020 12:42:39 GMT
Good news
Recall means wages off the books, so no sub contracting bollocks to deal with. Next step, Duffy. Still wonder if Blackpool are interested.
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Post by rickyfullerbeer on Jan 29, 2020 12:43:53 GMT
Excellent
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