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Post by wakefieldstokie on Dec 19, 2019 16:18:27 GMT
Love how some assume a fee for a player will be fed straight back into the transfer fund.
Also love the optimism that if the fee was used on a new player, that the new player would be any better. SCFC history suggests not
Joe Allen is an asset, why sell your assets.
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Post by trickydicky73 on Dec 19, 2019 16:21:57 GMT
For sure, Whelan played his part. I just think Allen would have looked better than he has, next to N'Zonzi, that's all. I'm not sure how. Would that have made him more disciplined, which is the main problem? I think he'd benefit from the physical presence of Zonze, and his ability to get around the pitch, meaning he's not required to do the running as much. People always say he's done it for Wales,but he's got better players around him. I think that's true, and discipline doesn't seem quite the problem for them, does it? I don't think all our midfield fell apart because of Allen. I just don't think he's good enough to carry it. N'Zonzi was.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2019 16:24:39 GMT
Love how some assume a fee for a player will be fed straight back into the transfer fund. Also love the optimism that if the fee was used on a new player, that the new player would be any better. SCFC history suggests not Joe Allen is an asset, why sell your assets. Your assets are the only things worth money
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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2019 16:27:39 GMT
We are stuck with him.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Dec 19, 2019 16:41:28 GMT
I'm not sure how. Would that have made him more disciplined, which is the main problem? I think he'd benefit from the physical presence of Zonze, and his ability to get around the pitch, meaning he's not required to do the running as much. People always say he's done it for Wales,but he's got better players around him. I think that's true, and discipline doesn't seem quite the problem for them, does it? I don't think all our midfield fell apart because of Allen. I just don't think he's good enough to carry it. N'Zonzi was. Everyone in the Wales set up seems to know their job, that much is true. What it's always needed is for someone to get hold of him and tell him to be that same disciplined player or drop him when he isn't. If that had happened I genuinely don't think we'd be in anything like the shit we are now.
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Post by rawli on Dec 19, 2019 17:16:08 GMT
Should get a decent price then. Wolves for £40m will do nicely..... That would be nice but I suspect we will be lucky to get early teens. £14m is my guess. They know we need the wages off the books. £10 million max.
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Post by rawli on Dec 19, 2019 17:21:52 GMT
Thank God we have better judges of a player’s ability on this board than four premiership clubs! It's not just the player though is it? If the players around him don't suit then he's an expensive waste of money. He's consistently not played that well for us while consistently playing very well for Wales. That says to me that the Welsh players complement him more than ours so.
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Post by tcdobinghoff on Dec 19, 2019 17:22:44 GMT
I'm not sure how. Would that have made him more disciplined, which is the main problem? I think he'd benefit from the physical presence of Zonze, and his ability to get around the pitch, meaning he's not required to do the running as much. People always say he's done it for Wales,but he's got better players around him. I think that's true, and discipline doesn't seem quite the problem for them, does it? I don't think all our midfield fell apart because of Allen. I just don't think he's good enough to carry it. N'Zonzi was. I don’t think you can level too much criticism on a midfielder because he can’t, or doesn’t, “carry “ it. It’s a rare and fine player that can do that. However you do make the point that I think is the biggest problem for our manager - we don’t function as a team. Many people on this board focus on the failings of individuals but the problem is about how they operate together. The N’Zonzi, Whelan + A.N.Other (creative) player midfield was as good as any midfield outside the top teams. It gave almost any other team a run for their money because they formed a great combination (also had some good players in front of them as well). I like Allen. He gets a lot of over-the-top criticism on here , as do some others, but I wouldn’t mind him leaving if we build a more effective midfield as a result. Getting rid of this individual or that individual will not in itself improve the team but it’s obvious the present set-up isn’t functioning. Let’s hope the manager can see a way forward.
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Post by rawli on Dec 19, 2019 17:23:52 GMT
Love how some assume a fee for a player will be fed straight back into the transfer fund. Also love the optimism that if the fee was used on a new player, that the new player would be any better. SCFC history suggests not Joe Allen is an asset, why sell your assets. I don't think we can afford to plough it back in. He's being sold to offset the transfer disasters of the last 3 managers
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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2019 17:34:23 GMT
If not Sorensen, another option could be our current academy captain Dunwoody. Probably plays a little further ahead than Sorensen. But our manager knows all about him having watched him play for the Northern Irish youth teams. Given our performances this season if any of the younger players were anywhere near ready surely they would already have been in the match day squad. You would like to think so, but a lot of managers (not just ours) are scared stiff of playing youth because if said youth makes a costly mistake, they think the blame will fall on them (and knowing the Oatcake, it probably will). For them it's probably more a foregone conclusion than the potential 'if'. The potential if could just as easily be the hugely motivated first timer scores a goal or makes an assist (as Sorensen did on his debut). But the fear is just greater than the hope, in many ways.
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Post by crouchpotato1 on Dec 19, 2019 17:38:02 GMT
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Post by trickydicky73 on Dec 19, 2019 17:39:56 GMT
I think he'd benefit from the physical presence of Zonze, and his ability to get around the pitch, meaning he's not required to do the running as much. People always say he's done it for Wales,but he's got better players around him. I think that's true, and discipline doesn't seem quite the problem for them, does it? I don't think all our midfield fell apart because of Allen. I just don't think he's good enough to carry it. N'Zonzi was. Everyone in the Wales set up seems to know their job, that much is true. What it's always needed is for someone to get hold of him and tell him to be that same disciplined player or drop him when he isn't. If that had happened I genuinely don't think we'd be in anything like the shit we are now. I agree with you. It's bizarre how that hasn't happened.
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Post by chigstoke on Dec 19, 2019 17:40:38 GMT
Now if only we accepted the supposed £25 Million they offered two seasons ago...
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Post by estrangedsonoffaye on Dec 19, 2019 17:55:42 GMT
£15 million would be nice.
It'll likely be the last chance to get that kind of fee for him, he's 30 in March. So it's stick or twist.
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Dec 19, 2019 17:56:51 GMT
It's laughable that some posters think we'll get a better player in than Joe Allen to help us avoid relegation. As to the ridiculous confidence in youth - did anyone watch the Liverpool academy team getting turned over by a very average Villa side the other day? If we rely on our Academy for survival we're down already. It's funny how suggesting one fully grown academy player tends to become 11 kids all in at the same time in some people's minds. I don't know, it must some sort of mental inability to get the facts right. But you're not the only one to suffer such fallacies. Edwards and Campbell have demonstrated already the difficulty of stepping up from the academy into the first team - both have been found wanting. To believe an academy player is going to step into Joe Allen's - or others - shoes is just wishful thinking. The one concern I would have over Allen is his physical presence - most of the teams in this division are made up of beasts and we're getting bullied off the ball all over the pitch. We need a couple of monsters in the team and Allen leaving provides a gap. The need for some physicality is another good reason for not turning to youth - the grizzled old pros in the is league will have them for breakfast - in some cases literally.
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Post by robwahlmann on Dec 19, 2019 18:04:06 GMT
£10-12M and we must be more than pleased!
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Post by estrangedsonoffaye on Dec 19, 2019 18:05:20 GMT
It's funny how suggesting one fully grown academy player tends to become 11 kids all in at the same time in some people's minds. I don't know, it must some sort of mental inability to get the facts right. But you're not the only one to suffer such fallacies. Edwards and Campbell have demonstrated already the difficulty of stepping up from the academy into the first team - both have been found wanting. To believe an academy player is going to step into Joe Allen's - or others - shoes is just wishful thinking. The one concern I would have over Allen is his physical presence - most of the teams in this division are made up of beasts and we're getting bullied off the ball all over the pitch. We need a couple of monsters in the team and Allen leaving provides a gap. The need for some physicality is another good reason for not turning to youth - the grizzled old pros in the is league will have them for breakfast - in some cases literally. We're lacking creativity more than anything else in the middle. I don't think our midfield has created a goal from open play all season.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2019 18:15:35 GMT
65k a week for those performances... footballs a mad game.
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Post by robwahlmann on Dec 19, 2019 18:24:51 GMT
65k a week for those performances... footballs a mad game. That is at least £45K too much in this league!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2019 18:31:51 GMT
£8 million ? I'd bite their hands off
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Post by waffles on Dec 19, 2019 18:39:33 GMT
Two years for me to earn what he gets in a week, two fucking years.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2019 18:44:30 GMT
It's funny how suggesting one fully grown academy player tends to become 11 kids all in at the same time in some people's minds. I don't know, it must some sort of mental inability to get the facts right. But you're not the only one to suffer such fallacies. Edwards and Campbell have demonstrated already the difficulty of stepping up from the academy into the first team - both have been found wanting. To believe an academy player is going to step into Joe Allen's - or others - shoes is just wishful thinking. The one concern I would have over Allen is his physical presence - most of the teams in this division are made up of beasts and we're getting bullied off the ball all over the pitch. We need a couple of monsters in the team and Allen leaving provides a gap. The need for some physicality is another good reason for not turning to youth - the grizzled old pros in the is league will have them for breakfast - in some cases literally. From your reasoning you'd think there had never been a youth player who made into pro football, and yet you have to look at our dearest rivals, Arsenal and Manure, and countless others, to know that that is not quite true. You want a monster in the team? Just convert McClean to a central midfielder and play him alongside Cousins. He used to play there often enough for WBA and Eire, even though he was nominally wide. And watch any semblance of creativity disappear from our midfield...
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Post by boskampsflaps on Dec 19, 2019 19:06:22 GMT
I think he'd benefit from the physical presence of Zonze, and his ability to get around the pitch, meaning he's not required to do the running as much. People always say he's done it for Wales,but he's got better players around him. I think that's true, and discipline doesn't seem quite the problem for them, does it? I don't think all our midfield fell apart because of Allen. I just don't think he's good enough to carry it. N'Zonzi was. Everyone in the Wales set up seems to know their job, that much is true. What it's always needed is for someone to get hold of him and tell him to be that same disciplined player or drop him when he isn't. If that had happened I genuinely don't think we'd be in anything like the shit we are now. Or just signed a proper holding DM instead.
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Post by rawli on Dec 19, 2019 19:24:46 GMT
Two years for me to earn what he gets in a week, two fucking years. Do you play for the vale?
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Post by rawli on Dec 19, 2019 19:27:40 GMT
God almighty. £3.25 million a year. It takes the chairman's daughter 3 days to earn that!
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Post by flinteastwood on Dec 19, 2019 19:30:39 GMT
if we get a good price for him could that mean we keep hold of Etebo and or Badou.
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Post by Glory Hunter on Dec 19, 2019 19:41:58 GMT
Every club outside of the top 6 or so in the Prem would be improved by signing Joe Allen. Some of the comments on here (Bayern for example) are total rubbish. We will miss him more than we know - but will probably find out soon.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2019 19:53:38 GMT
if we get a good price for him could that mean we keep hold of Etebo and or Badou. No because they both want to leave, Badou has almost since he got here (nothing against the club, just greater ambition), while Etebo feels undervalued and who can blame him.
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Post by stokieoldboy on Dec 19, 2019 20:14:01 GMT
IF it is true, that four premier teams are after him,it says it all, that there is a good, decent, hard working player in there somewhere, its the lazy clueless fcuktards,around him, that are the problem,they're not on the same fcukg wave length as him, instead of wanting a pass from Allen,they run away and hide, then Allen runs into trouble,making him look a twat,we saw against luton what he's capable of, so be careful of what you wish for.we need him, and ten more of the useless fcukrs,every game, giving at least %100, that said, everyone has a price,so if a club offered between 10 and 12 million I would drive him there myself.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2019 20:43:49 GMT
IF it is true, that four premier teams are after him,it says it all, that there is a good, decent, hard working player in there somewhere, its the lazy clueless fcuktards,around him, that are the problem,they're not on the same fcukg wave length as him, instead of wanting a pass from Allen,they run away and hide, then Allen runs into trouble,making him look a twat,we saw against luton what he's capable of, so be careful of what you wish for.we need him, and ten more of the useless fcukrs,every game, giving at least %100, that said, everyone has a price,so if a club offered between 10 and 12 million I would drive him there myself. I think they are after him based on reputation rather than performance levels. As been said by many on here, he seems to be doing rather well playing for Wales. If club scouts from those PL clubs come to see him play for us, and you'd have to think they are, they might be less impressed but will put it down as a result of playing for a struggling team and a club out of sorts. They will think their club can give him greater stability and they might. If Allen does leave, we won't be able to get another Joe, I hear you say. Well that's the whole point why so many would rather see his heels. Whoever comes in should bring something else to the team. He might not be a goalscorer, he might put down fewer miles, but he might bring a clearer sense of his position and more consistency. Well we have a right to hope.
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