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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Dec 19, 2019 13:25:31 GMT
Negative effect? He's contributed to the negative. FOR YEARS! Get rid. Put a fly on in his place given all he does is buzz around like a mad energetic bunny. I disagree completely - he has been one of the few shining lights for years. You don't think his lack of positional discipline has been a problem then Wuzza?
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Dec 19, 2019 13:32:35 GMT
It's laughable that some posters think we'll get a better player in than Joe Allen to help us avoid relegation. As to the ridiculous confidence in youth - did anyone watch the Liverpool academy team getting turned over by a very average Villa side the other day? If we rely on our Academy for survival we're down already.
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Post by JimmyisGod on Dec 19, 2019 13:48:13 GMT
Thank God we have better judges of a player’s ability on this board than four premiership clubs!
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Post by wuzza on Dec 19, 2019 13:52:26 GMT
I disagree completely - he has been one of the few shining lights for years. You don't think his lack of positional discipline has been a problem then Wuzza? His position for me has been all over the park trying to cover the gaps and to finish off moves - doing jobs others should have been doing in other words. The bloke has talent, energy and total commitment. If we are in a position to look down our noses at that I must have been watching the wrong club for the last 3 years ! I think the fact that it would take him 5 mins to get another club tells us everything we need to know.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Dec 19, 2019 13:55:21 GMT
You don't think his lack of positional discipline has been a problem then Wuzza? His position for me has been all over the park trying to cover the gaps and to finish off moves - doing jobs others should have been doing in other words. The bloke has talent, energy and total commitment. If we are in a position to look down our noses at that I must have been watching the wrong club for the last 3 years ! I think the fact that it would take him 5 mins to get another club tells us everything we need to know. I'm not sure it is a fact that it would take him five minutes to get another club - if that was true he'd have been off like a shot when we were relegated? For me the 'doing jobs others should be doing' is the cause of the problem - his undisciplined running around means we lose our shape and gaps open us, plus off the ball he frequently doesn't do his own job in terms of tracking runners or pressing the ball. When he's good he's very good but I think trying to find a role for him has caused way more problems than it's solved over the years.
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Post by nonameface on Dec 19, 2019 14:10:16 GMT
His position for me has been all over the park trying to cover the gaps and to finish off moves - doing jobs others should have been doing in other words. The bloke has talent, energy and total commitment. If we are in a position to look down our noses at that I must have been watching the wrong club for the last 3 years ! I think the fact that it would take him 5 mins to get another club tells us everything we need to know. I'm not sure it is a fact that it would take him five minutes to get another club - if that was true he'd have been off like a shot when we were relegated? For me the 'doing jobs others should be doing' is the cause of the problem - his undisciplined running around means we lose our shape and gaps open us, plus off the ball he frequently doesn't do his own job in terms of tracking runners or pressing the ball. When he's good he's very good but I think trying to find a role for him has caused way more problems than it's solved over the years. Agree, he's a good technical player but too much of a jack of all trades master of none for what we need. I'm sure he'll be a good squad player for premiership teams, just not for keeping us up and then hopefully eventually getting promoted.
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Post by wuzza on Dec 19, 2019 14:15:51 GMT
His position for me has been all over the park trying to cover the gaps and to finish off moves - doing jobs others should have been doing in other words. The bloke has talent, energy and total commitment. If we are in a position to look down our noses at that I must have been watching the wrong club for the last 3 years ! I think the fact that it would take him 5 mins to get another club tells us everything we need to know. I'm not sure it is a fact that it would take him five minutes to get another club - if that was true he'd have been off like a shot when we were relegated? For me the 'doing jobs others should be doing' is the cause of the problem - his undisciplined running around means we lose our shape and gaps open us, plus off the ball he frequently doesn't do his own job in terms of tracking runners or pressing the ball. When he's good he's very good but I think trying to find a role for him has caused way more problems than it's solved over the years. He probably has been a victim of our circumstances to an extent but I would never say he was the cause of them. The guy never hides - if we had had half a dozen more with his attitude we wouldn’t be where we are. With regard moving on, he showed a commitment to the cause aswell as maintaining continuity in his home life. The moment he expresses a desire to go there will be Championship and even some PL clubs knocking on our door. I’m sure of it.
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Post by nonameface on Dec 19, 2019 14:18:58 GMT
I'm not sure it is a fact that it would take him five minutes to get another club - if that was true he'd have been off like a shot when we were relegated? For me the 'doing jobs others should be doing' is the cause of the problem - his undisciplined running around means we lose our shape and gaps open us, plus off the ball he frequently doesn't do his own job in terms of tracking runners or pressing the ball. When he's good he's very good but I think trying to find a role for him has caused way more problems than it's solved over the years. He probably has been a victim of our circumstances to an extent but I would never say he was the cause of them. The guy never hides - if we had had half a dozen more with his attitude we wouldn’t be where we are. With regard moving on, he showed a commitment to the cause aswell as maintaining continuity in his home life. The moment he expresses a desire to go there will be Championship and even some PL clubs knocking on our door. I’m sure of it. He never hides? Maybe not in the same way as Ince who deliberately plays hide and seek, but Allen goes missing all the time. How often does he do something of any note?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2019 14:19:02 GMT
I think Sorensen could come in and do no worse a job if Cousins is to be holding the fort from now on. He'll at least hold his position and on small evidence, can pick a pass. I tend to agree. Obviously he's not the finished product having played very little for our senior side, but he has managed 25 international youth caps for a highly successful Danish team (he did go to the back of the queue after he broke his leg, but I'm led to believe he's reestablishing himself). If he's subject to the traditional Stoke lack of faith in anything youthful, he might struggle at first, but he can't possibly do worse than what we're seeing in the first team on a regular basis.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2019 14:24:12 GMT
It's laughable that some posters think we'll get a better player in than Joe Allen to help us avoid relegation. As to the ridiculous confidence in youth - did anyone watch the Liverpool academy team getting turned over by a very average Villa side the other day? If we rely on our Academy for survival we're down already. It's funny how suggesting one fully grown academy player tends to become 11 kids all in at the same time in some people's minds. I don't know, it must some sort of mental inability to get the facts right. But you're not the only one to suffer such fallacies.
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Post by toppercorner on Dec 19, 2019 14:24:38 GMT
we'll sell to Burnley for fuck all, he'll have a resurgence, and Burnley will off us a replacement for more than they paid for him.
that club see us (quite rightly) as a bunch of mugs
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Post by wuzza on Dec 19, 2019 14:25:56 GMT
He probably has been a victim of our circumstances to an extent but I would never say he was the cause of them. The guy never hides - if we had had half a dozen more with his attitude we wouldn’t be where we are. With regard moving on, he showed a commitment to the cause aswell as maintaining continuity in his home life. The moment he expresses a desire to go there will be Championship and even some PL clubs knocking on our door. I’m sure of it. He never hides? Maybe not in the same way as Ince who deliberately plays hide and seek, but Allen goes missing all the time. How often does he do something of any note? I just can’t relate to what you’ve said there - the bloke covers every blade of grass - always looking for the ball , always harrying the opposition. As for doing things of note I bet he has more involvement in significant events on the park than any other player we’ve got , creating chances, scoring goals ....and making mistakes and missing chances (but at least he is always in there ) .
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Post by Gods on Dec 19, 2019 14:32:57 GMT
I don't want him to leave, he's just about our only decent player.
Don't take it from me though, he's the only one we have an earthly of selling.
The rest are free transfers or loans.
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Post by shakermaker on Dec 19, 2019 14:38:01 GMT
His position for me has been all over the park trying to cover the gaps and to finish off moves - doing jobs others should have been doing in other words. The bloke has talent, energy and total commitment. If we are in a position to look down our noses at that I must have been watching the wrong club for the last 3 years ! I think the fact that it would take him 5 mins to get another club tells us everything we need to know. I'm not sure it is a fact that it would take him five minutes to get another club - if that was true he'd have been off like a shot when we were relegated? For me the 'doing jobs others should be doing' is the cause of the problem - his undisciplined running around means we lose our shape and gaps open us, plus off the ball he frequently doesn't do his own job in terms of tracking runners or pressing the ball. When he's good he's very good but I think trying to find a role for him has caused way more problems than it's solved over the years. If this is the case, it would be interesting to see the effect on our team if he held station and let others cover the gaps. I suspect we'd still lose goals, but then at least Joe doesn't get the blame. Have always said his best position is part of a two-man holding midfield, but he needs a good passing DM alongside him while he breaks up play in his own patch of the field. Running around doing everyone's day jobs just detracts from his abilities.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Dec 19, 2019 14:48:40 GMT
I'm not sure it is a fact that it would take him five minutes to get another club - if that was true he'd have been off like a shot when we were relegated? For me the 'doing jobs others should be doing' is the cause of the problem - his undisciplined running around means we lose our shape and gaps open us, plus off the ball he frequently doesn't do his own job in terms of tracking runners or pressing the ball. When he's good he's very good but I think trying to find a role for him has caused way more problems than it's solved over the years. If this is the case, it would be interesting to see the effect on our team if he held station and let others cover the gaps. I suspect we'd still lose goals, but then at least Joe doesn't get the blame. Have always said his best position is part of a two-man holding midfield, but he needs a good passing DM alongside him while he breaks up play in his own patch of the field. Running around doing everyone's day jobs just detracts from his abilities. He can't stay between our goal and the ball though when the opposition have it. He is that ill disciplined.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2019 14:58:33 GMT
I think Sorensen could come in and do no worse a job if Cousins is to be holding the fort from now on. He'll at least hold his position and on small evidence, can pick a pass. If not Sorensen, another option could be our current academy captain Dunwoody. Probably plays a little further ahead than Sorensen. But our manager knows all about him having watched him play for the Northern Irish youth teams.
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Post by Goonie on Dec 19, 2019 15:22:52 GMT
"It's worth stressing that there's nothing on the table from anyone ahead of the January window" Boo Not the Xmas cheer I hoped for
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Post by Goonie on Dec 19, 2019 15:24:19 GMT
His position for me has been all over the park trying to cover the gaps and to finish off moves - doing jobs others should have been doing in other words. The bloke has talent, energy and total commitment. If we are in a position to look down our noses at that I must have been watching the wrong club for the last 3 years ! I think the fact that it would take him 5 mins to get another club tells us everything we need to know. I'm not sure it is a fact that it would take him five minutes to get another club - if that was true he'd have been off like a shot when we were relegated? For me the 'doing jobs others should be doing' is the cause of the problem - his undisciplined running around means we lose our shape and gaps open us, plus off the ball he frequently doesn't do his own job in terms of tracking runners or pressing the ball. When he's good he's very good but I think trying to find a role for him has caused way more problems than it's solved over the years. 🎯👍👏
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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2019 15:27:44 GMT
"It's worth stressing that there's nothing on the table from anyone ahead of the January window" Boo Not the Xmas cheer I hoped for There's not supposed to be anything at all on the window table until January 1 - just some of the very high top clubs get their offers in early, paying more means nothing to them. Just watch this space after the turn of the year, so keep your hopes up high.
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Post by questionable on Dec 19, 2019 15:28:33 GMT
You can just see that weasel faced rat sitting behind his desk rubbing his fat greasy hands together thinking sell Allen and I can award myself another pay rise...
Let’s get this parasite gone.
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Post by cooper67 on Dec 19, 2019 15:30:42 GMT
Get him gone!!
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Post by trickydicky73 on Dec 19, 2019 15:32:04 GMT
I'm not sure it is a fact that it would take him five minutes to get another club - if that was true he'd have been off like a shot when we were relegated? For me the 'doing jobs others should be doing' is the cause of the problem - his undisciplined running around means we lose our shape and gaps open us, plus off the ball he frequently doesn't do his own job in terms of tracking runners or pressing the ball. When he's good he's very good but I think trying to find a role for him has caused way more problems than it's solved over the years. He probably has been a victim of our circumstances to an extent but I would never say he was the cause of them. The guy never hides - if we had had half a dozen more with his attitude we wouldn’t be where we are. With regard moving on, he showed a commitment to the cause aswell as maintaining continuity in his home life. The moment he expresses a desire to go there will be Championship and even some PL clubs knocking on our door. I’m sure of it. I wonder if he'll "ruin" the next midfield he joins?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2019 15:36:11 GMT
I think Sorensen could come in and do no worse a job if Cousins is to be holding the fort from now on. He'll at least hold his position and on small evidence, can pick a pass. Jarvis please Sorrensson can pas you are right however for me he's best playing where Cousins plays , Jarvis is a creative last third player I don't know loads about the youth team but Jarvis is somebody I file under 'name I know, has been around for ages, will probably never make it here'. Is he any good?
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Post by Veritas on Dec 19, 2019 15:46:42 GMT
I think Sorensen could come in and do no worse a job if Cousins is to be holding the fort from now on. He'll at least hold his position and on small evidence, can pick a pass. If not Sorensen, another option could be our current academy captain Dunwoody. Probably plays a little further ahead than Sorensen. But our manager knows all about him having watched him play for the Northern Irish youth teams. Given our performances this season if any of the younger players were anywhere near ready surely they would already have been in the match day squad.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2019 15:50:24 GMT
I'm not sure it is a fact that it would take him five minutes to get another club - if that was true he'd have been off like a shot when we were relegated? For me the 'doing jobs others should be doing' is the cause of the problem - his undisciplined running around means we lose our shape and gaps open us, plus off the ball he frequently doesn't do his own job in terms of tracking runners or pressing the ball. When he's good he's very good but I think trying to find a role for him has caused way more problems than it's solved over the years. Agree, he's a good technical player but too much of a jack of all trades master of none for what we need. I'm sure he'll be a good squad player for premiership teams, just not for keeping us up and then hopefully eventually getting promoted. A good technical player ? His 1st touch is abysmal
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Post by trickydicky73 on Dec 19, 2019 15:52:40 GMT
I'm not sure it is a fact that it would take him five minutes to get another club - if that was true he'd have been off like a shot when we were relegated? For me the 'doing jobs others should be doing' is the cause of the problem - his undisciplined running around means we lose our shape and gaps open us, plus off the ball he frequently doesn't do his own job in terms of tracking runners or pressing the ball. When he's good he's very good but I think trying to find a role for him has caused way more problems than it's solved over the years. If this is the case, it would be interesting to see the effect on our team if he held station and let others cover the gaps. I suspect we'd still lose goals, but then at least Joe doesn't get the blame. Have always said his best position is part of a two-man holding midfield, but he needs a good passing DM alongside him while he breaks up play in his own patch of the field. Running around doing everyone's day jobs just detracts from his abilities. I take Tox's point about discipline, but I would like to have seen Allen next to N'Zonzi to see how good he actually is. Whelan had that benefit, and also Delap complimented him. Allen got a legs gone Whelan to work with and a piss weak Woods. I do think he tries to do too much to compensate for some team inadequacy at times. Having said all that, when people were talking stupid money for Allen I would have taken it, and the same goes for Butland. I expect an instant transformation if he goes now, and us to suddenly stop teams cutting through us. Maybe then we'll truly know where the blame lies.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Dec 19, 2019 16:01:42 GMT
I'm not sure it is a fact that it would take him five minutes to get another club - if that was true he'd have been off like a shot when we were relegated? For me the 'doing jobs others should be doing' is the cause of the problem - his undisciplined running around means we lose our shape and gaps open us, plus off the ball he frequently doesn't do his own job in terms of tracking runners or pressing the ball. When he's good he's very good but I think trying to find a role for him has caused way more problems than it's solved over the years. He probably has been a victim of our circumstances to an extent but I would never say he was the cause of them. The guy never hides - if we had had half a dozen more with his attitude we wouldn’t be where we are. With regard moving on, he showed a commitment to the cause aswell as maintaining continuity in his home life. The moment he expresses a desire to go there will be Championship and even some PL clubs knocking on our door. I’m sure of it. You need brains as well as guts though Wuzza and if charging round trying to help is causing us more problems then it isn't quite that noble an endeavour. If you're racing round trying to put out fires but your engine is leaking petrol then it's pretty fruitless.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Dec 19, 2019 16:02:47 GMT
If this is the case, it would be interesting to see the effect on our team if he held station and let others cover the gaps. I suspect we'd still lose goals, but then at least Joe doesn't get the blame. Have always said his best position is part of a two-man holding midfield, but he needs a good passing DM alongside him while he breaks up play in his own patch of the field. Running around doing everyone's day jobs just detracts from his abilities. I take Tox's point about discipline, but I would like to have seen Allen next to N'Zonzi to see how good he actually is. Whelan had that benefit, and also Delap complimented him. Allen got a legs gone Whelan to work with and a piss weak Woods. I do think he tries to do too much to compensate for some team inadequacy at times. Having said all that, when people were talking stupid money for Allen I would have taken it, and the same goes for Butland. I expect an instant transformation if he goes now, and us to suddenly stop teams cutting through us. Maybe then we'll truly know where the blame lies. I know you have a weird thing about Whelan but he benefited Nzonzi as well as vice versa. Whelan has been a better player for Stoke than Allen because he was disciplined and did the job that was expected of him.
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Post by trickydicky73 on Dec 19, 2019 16:07:37 GMT
I take Tox's point about discipline, but I would like to have seen Allen next to N'Zonzi to see how good he actually is. Whelan had that benefit, and also Delap complimented him. Allen got a legs gone Whelan to work with and a piss weak Woods. I do think he tries to do too much to compensate for some team inadequacy at times. Having said all that, when people were talking stupid money for Allen I would have taken it, and the same goes for Butland. I expect an instant transformation if he goes now, and us to suddenly stop teams cutting through us. Maybe then we'll truly know where the blame lies. I know you have a weird thing about Whelan but he benefited Nzonzi as well as vice versa. Whelan has been a better player for Stoke than Allen because he was disciplined and did the job that was expected of him. For sure, Whelan played his part. I just think Allen would have looked better than he has, next to N'Zonzi, that's all.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Dec 19, 2019 16:14:24 GMT
I know you have a weird thing about Whelan but he benefited Nzonzi as well as vice versa. Whelan has been a better player for Stoke than Allen because he was disciplined and did the job that was expected of him. For sure, Whelan played his part. I just think Allen would have looked better than he has, next to N'Zonzi, that's all. I'm not sure how. Would that have made him more disciplined, which is the main problem?
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