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Post by Staffsoatcake on Aug 21, 2019 22:36:00 GMT
I am but if he continues to play Joe Allen I won’t be able to back him unfortunately. Ditto.
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Post by boskampsflaps on Aug 21, 2019 22:36:46 GMT
Yes.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Aug 21, 2019 22:36:53 GMT
I’m beginning to think Paul Hart is not a positive influence on Jones or Stoke. He’s failed as a manager whenever he’s been & just happened to get lucky with two exceptional youth teams at Leeds & Forest. I always sceptical about his appointment. An absolute failure imo.
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Post by boskampsflaps on Aug 21, 2019 22:38:41 GMT
I am but if he continues to play Joe Allen I won’t be able to back him unfortunately. Allen is a big tipping point for me too, its clear he's a massive problem.
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Post by terryconroysmagic on Aug 21, 2019 22:39:22 GMT
Tonight was toss but I still think he needs more time.
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Post by Roger Everyone on Aug 21, 2019 22:40:47 GMT
We have to give him more time, mainly because who honestly would come here ? I like him, if he would just play some other formation....
we can't keep chopping and changing managers, every time we get someone in they change everything and we are back to square one.
I think it will come good, ie we will still be in this division next season if we stick with him.
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Post by FullerMagic on Aug 21, 2019 22:43:30 GMT
On balance, I'm still just about behind him.
But we've got to see a balls-on-the-line level of ruthlessness from him at the weekend in his selection.
And, even then, 2 defeats against Leeds (as is probable) and I think it'll be very hard for him to keep his job if we lose at Birmingham going into the international break. The frenzy in the crowd will be at Rowett v Bristol City levels if we reach that point on the current trajectory.
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Post by LGH87 on Aug 21, 2019 22:46:42 GMT
On balance, I'm still just about behind him. But we've got to see a balls-on-the-line level of ruthlessness from him at the weekend in his selection. And, even then, 2 defeats against Leeds (as is probable) and I think it'll be very hard for him to keep his job if we lose at Birmingham going into the international break. The frenzy in the crowd will be at Rowett v Bristol City levels if we reach that point on the current trajectory. He simply has to drop Butland, Batth & Allen on Saturday. Clucas has maybe just done enough to keep his place a little longer due to the fact there isnt a lot of options available to replace him with. If he’s ballsy enough to make those changes Saturday he might just be the type of manager I hoped and thought he is / would be. If not, then I genuinely believe his days could be numbered.
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Post by Davef on Aug 21, 2019 22:47:06 GMT
He's certainly got to show he's got a pair of bollocks at the weekend.
Butland, Allen and Batth just can't be selected against Leeds and he'll lose a lot of support if any of them are on the team sheet.
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Post by Mr Ron Agent on Aug 21, 2019 22:48:11 GMT
Yes I’m ok with him and like his driven, single minded obsessive personality which is very ShankIyesque.
I know promotion this season is the stated objective but I think it will take maybe a couple of seasons for him to get the team to the level of consistency required.
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Post by danceswithclams on Aug 21, 2019 22:50:42 GMT
On balance, I'm still just about behind him. But we've got to see a balls-on-the-line level of ruthlessness from him at the weekend in his selection. And, even then, 2 defeats against Leeds (as is probable) and I think it'll be very hard for him to keep his job if we lose at Birmingham going into the international break. The frenzy in the crowd will be at Rowett v Bristol City levels if we reach that point on the current trajectory. I'm about 60/40 against at present (after being a staunch Jones supporter - yeah, call me fickle) but tonight reeked of haven't-a-clue-ness. If he starts Butland and Allen on Saturday though, he can fuck right off.
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Post by mrcoke on Aug 21, 2019 22:51:42 GMT
I'm bitterly disappointed by tonight's performance. I thought he was turning things round and it was just individual errors that were letting him down resulting in not winning.
We again had individual errors tonight, but the overall performance was dire. There is clearly something wrong with the team preparation and even basics like passing and tight marking are very poor. In recent games we have seen lots of shots, but very poor accuracy. Tonight we had a miserable 8 shots, back where we were last season.
On tonight's performance we are in serious danger of following clubs like Wigan, Blackburn, Sunderland who dropped out of the Prem to the third tier.
I am still not giving up hope though. I've seen enough football to know things can change. I gave Rowett 10 games before deciding he was a fraud last season. Maybe I should give Jones less because he has the advantage of seeing last season, getting rid of much of the dross, and 10 players of his choice. I don't believe Jones is a fraud, his record shows he is a winning manager, but maybe he has moved to this level too soon.
On the basis of the performances against Charlton, Wigan, and Derby (not the results) I am prepared to see how the next 3 or 4 games go. If we lose all of them, I think the club have to act in the interest of the players.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2019 22:56:25 GMT
I am backing him still, but when I said that he should be given at least three years to turn things around, even if we got relegated, that was with the two stipulations that the team would be having to be seen to be moving forward in a positive manner and barring an absolute disaster of say 10-15 points up to the team that was in 21st.
We are definitely not moving forward, we're regressing very badly with a team that's not a team, and with 10 players bought, none of whom appear to have a clue what is wanted from them, as those that were already here also don't know. We've already faced at least two teams that seemingly without effort switched on the diamond just for our benefit and looked at ease with it, whereas the team that have trained for it specifically for several weeks and some even months, have no grasp of what the diamond is and how it's going to benefit them. We have players such as McClean who consistently plays against the system that he has been chosen to be the key player in, and Batth who turns a deaf ear to what it's all about. Then of course we have Ince, who may have moved inside, but still essentially plays for himself only and completely shirks anything that resembles a tackle.
We have some players that have looked good for us, Edwards and Collins, but they are not in the manager's thoughts when it comes to the team sheet, unless someone like Smith screws up. We have Verlinden who played very well for about a handful of minutes who then is dropped from the bench altogether. But the manager consistently plays personal favourites ahead of better choices.
So that disaster does hover uncomfortably on the horizon. I won't go as far as to say that a match against a Bielsa-led Leeds is a must win, but we must be able to shut up shop at the back, Once we can do that, we can start looking for wins, and then at winning healthy. But that seems a long way off. So it's now really down to the barren luck: we must hope we can scramble some points and the odd win. If we're 10 pts behind by the end of October, it will be difficult to see a loser like Jones turn things around. Because while he says he's not used to losing we only have his word for it. We really haven't seen him act anything like he talks.
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Post by sergeifaye on Aug 21, 2019 22:58:15 GMT
No,
This is my theory - he's given an absolute blinding interview to get the job and he was a cheap option. The powers that be have been blown away by the presentation he gave in the interview and they've thought 'this is brilliant, the guy knows what he's doing and he's cheap because he's ambitious'.
And it turns out, as in so many other professions, somebody can give a blinding interview but then not be up to the job. People talk about liking him but I think they're inadvertently hitting the nail on the head. How many really good successful managers both inside and outside football are 'likeable'. The best ones are usually complete *****.
No interview he's given while hes been at the club has convinced/impressed me. And some of the recent ones have had an air of a man on the edge. I noticed a pic tonight of him on the touchline with all his fingers plastered up at the tips. Is that because he bites them so much. That will strike many people as such a trivial point but that in it's own right doesn't inspire confidence. He strikes me as a small man with a Napoleon complex. His record is shocking. Put me in charge of that group of players and I wouldn't have done worse.
At the moment it's looking like a relegation fight. The best hope of rescuing the season is biting the bullet and getting somebody with experience in. Anybody with real experience at this or prem level (Moyes was there tonight). And style shouldn't matter it's got to the point now where the only thing that matters now is results. And people who say otherwise need there head reading.
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Post by sheriffofrockridge on Aug 21, 2019 23:03:06 GMT
I’m beginning to think Paul Hart is not a positive influence on Jones or Stoke. He’s failed as a manager whenever he’s been & just happened to get lucky with two exceptional youth teams at Leeds & Forest. He also looks like a right miserable dour old cunt. He's supposed to be the one putting arms around the players and making them feel loved. He's hardly the fucking grandad from the Werther's Originals advert.
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Post by fca47 on Aug 21, 2019 23:12:57 GMT
Just about still with him. He's either got to change his system, or stop trying to make players into something they are not. He has managed it with Maclean but Ince will never be a No 10 and Woods can't play the base of the diamond, time to give up trying to fit them in. Buggering up the attacking part and the defence.
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Post by realstokebloke on Aug 21, 2019 23:13:00 GMT
And that's probably exactly what it will take to even start to turn round the groundswell of opinion - on here certainly.
It's not beyond the realms of possibility it might happen but I'm guessing not tbh.
Realistically, we have to keep him, unless, of course, we have Mr Sure Thing lined up. Whoever that is.
And even then we'd look like the bunch of clueless twots we are for sacking yet ano manager.
That said, I am still waiting, very impatiently, for the walk to deliver on all the talk we've had about how wonderful it's going to be.
I like him as a bloke from what you can see but this really can't carry on.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2019 23:15:13 GMT
I’m beginning to think Paul Hart is not a positive influence on Jones or Stoke. He’s failed as a manager whenever he’s been & just happened to get lucky with two exceptional youth teams at Leeds & Forest. He also looks like a right miserable dour old cunt. He's supposed to be the one putting arms around the players and making them feel loved. He's hardly the fucking grandad from the Werther's Originals advert. It upsets me when he does the warm ups and can’t even throw the ball to the players during striking practice correctly. I know in the grand scheme of the things that are being put to right on here tonight it’s not a big point. But just thought I’d mention it.
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Post by SamB_SCFC on Aug 21, 2019 23:16:47 GMT
I will be behind them all on Saturday. But I'm afraid if we go two goals down then his time will be out and I'll be vocally calling for his head.
If he's sacked tomorrow I won't disagree with the decision. The results tell you all you need to know and managers have been sacked for far less. Including recent Stoke managers. He can have no complaints if he goes this week.
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Post by wuzza on Aug 21, 2019 23:18:33 GMT
For me has got 10 games this season and that’s given him more breathing space than any other club would have given him. If he can’t resolve our catastrophic defence and our impotent attack by then it really is ‘thank you and good night’. Loads of excuses have been made for his woeful record but in the cold light of day you are simply up to the job or not.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Aug 21, 2019 23:27:06 GMT
At this point we simply have to be still behind him don't we?
But if we were to lose (as little as) the next four games on the bounce, then we can't be anymore, can we?
Nervous times ahead ...
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Post by Gary Hackett on Aug 21, 2019 23:31:37 GMT
At this point we simply have to be still behind him don't we? But if we were to lose (as little as) the next four games on the bounce, then we can't be anymore, can we? Nervous times ahead ... You're being very generous there Paul. If he doesn't get a win on Saturday he needs to go.
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Post by prudhoesnose on Aug 21, 2019 23:31:48 GMT
Totally! I can see what he’s trying to do, but constant mistakes from our ‘big players’ are not helping.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2019 23:32:15 GMT
Lose on Saturday he is toast.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Aug 21, 2019 23:36:53 GMT
At this point we simply have to be still behind him don't we? But if we were to lose (as little as) the next four games on the bounce, then we can't be anymore, can we? Nervous times ahead ... You're being very generous there Paul. If he doesn't get a win on Saturday he needs to go. Maybe .. but he won't though. The point I was trying to make is, that all these people suggesting that he needs to be given at least 10 games or (even) at least until Christmas, will fall silent if we lose the next four games on the bounce ... at that point, there won't be anybody suggesting he needs more time.
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Post by xxstokiestanxx on Aug 21, 2019 23:38:39 GMT
Against my better judgment I decided to watch the game tonight as the wife wanted to watch it.... oh boy I wish I had stayed away from it.
Butland needs dropping in the Trent he is awful at the minute. Lee Hendrie summed it up on sky.. Schoolboy defending and a keeper who does not want to be here.
Mclean is slated on here but had a decent game , Collins looked like he will be in the prem next season if he keeps getting played. Allen well not a lot to say there. Edwards looks promising.
What midfield???? Ince OMG Gregory worked hard ,Hogan no service, Mclean's crosses not bad just need a striker to take a chance and get in the box not on the edge of it But jones was right, first 7 minutes was all stoke Preston long ball hooked into the middle Allen ,woods ball watching shot at goal and our England international keeper muffs his lines again they scored game over. second goal down to Batth had the chance to head it clear let it bounce , Butland had to come punch it then as we know he cant save anything at the minute so let in no 2 as the ball trickled under him. Their player could not believe his luck
After that confidence was shot and the whole team were useless
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Post by Gary Hackett on Aug 21, 2019 23:39:17 GMT
You're being very generous there Paul. If he doesn't get a win on Saturday he needs to go. Maybe .. but he won't though. The point I was trying to make is, that all these people suggesting that he needs to be given at least 10 games or (even) at least until Christmas, will fall silent if we lose the next four games on the bounce ... at that point, there won't be anybody suggesting he needs more time. He definitely won't go I agree, it'll take a few more defeats I'm sure. Out of interest who would your choice of replacement be considering who's available?
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Post by chrispk on Aug 21, 2019 23:41:42 GMT
I’ll give him 2 months before I finally decide .
Leeds (h) Leeds (a) Birmingham (a) Bristol City (h) Brentford (a) Nottm Forest (a) Huddersfield (h) Swansea (a) Fulham (h)
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Post by Paul Spencer on Aug 21, 2019 23:43:16 GMT
Maybe .. but he won't though. The point I was trying to make is, that all these people suggesting that he needs to be given at least 10 games or (even) at least until Christmas, will fall silent if we lose the next four games on the bounce ... at that point, there won't be anybody suggesting he needs more time. He definitely won't go I agree, it'll take a few more defeats I'm sure. Out of interest who would your choice of replacement be considering who's available? I'm desperately hoping that it won't come to that. But you've got to think that Hughton would be interested in the job if he doesn't ultimately end up at Huddersfield.
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Post by xxstokiestanxx on Aug 21, 2019 23:45:21 GMT
He wont be going anywhere they made their choice its a project now not a football team. I still think we will be fine this season lady luck must change soon, at the moment if it can go wrong for stoke it is going wrong bit of faith and patience is all we need … oh and a new keeper.
I still think he will turn it around given time.
after all its only a game:)
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