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Post by franklin66 on Aug 22, 2019 7:37:16 GMT
I am it's not his fault he's playing with 10 men, we've played some good stuff. He just needs to dump our catastrophic keeper for Davies and the goals against reduces by at least one every game. We can't compete from -1 all the time, they start well and the first shot is let in Jack is not doing anything to help in fact he's having the opposite effect. He picks the team He dunna tell then to throw games does he. How can he legislate for Butland throwing games.
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Post by nott1 on Aug 22, 2019 7:40:24 GMT
You're deluded matey but keep showing the faith and see where we end up.
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Post by estrangedsonoffaye on Aug 22, 2019 7:42:43 GMT
Yep, there are valid questions about the structure but you could play 10-0-0 and still concede if you have players making mistakes of the magnitude Batth, Allen and Butland made last night. They have to be dropped, if he does that then he'll start rebuilding some of my confidence in him. If he went to his Wigan formation and playing squad even more so.
There's no doubt though, he is on borrowed time from the fact we simply can't keep sacking managers.
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Post by SCFC92 on Aug 22, 2019 7:44:12 GMT
Completely and totally.
However I recognise it is a results based business and if we don't see an upturn soon, even the man himself will admit it doesn't look good.
How he responds to yesterdays abysmal performance will decide his Stoke City Fate, and I sincerely hope we turn it around, because if it comes good, we will be amazing.
I'm gutted at the moment, absolutely gutted.
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Post by realstokebloke on Aug 22, 2019 7:45:57 GMT
I’m not anymore and it kills me to say it. I desperately wanted NJ to be the man who led us out of the darkness and work the same magic he did at Luton on us. Young, British, what he did at Luton on his CV, likes his clothes, talked the talk, passionate, engaged with the support, Christian (can’t help to have God on your side). With a very heavy heart I think the size of the task of sorting the shit out at Stoke is too big for him. He’s got the back end of Mark Hughes’s transfer nuclear meltdown and Rowett’s squad to contend with and he doesn’t seem to have helped himself with some of his signings. In my view NJ is a genuine guy who will go and do a good job elsewhere in league 1 or 2 but sorting out Stoke City was always going to be a bridge too far for him. We need some fucking old school horrible bastard like Warnock (a bit of sick came up as I wrote this) to take the wheel or someone who like Hughton. Tony Scholes also needs to take off his Harry Potter cloak of Teflon, take some fucking responsibility and resign. Agree with much of this Stone.
Never been desperate for him as such but rather desperate to see us playing well, ripping it up & certainly shooting for, and hopefully gaining, promotion. All the things he has been promising for a long time now in fact.
But we really are a million miles away from there right now and, when you analyse it, NJ's deliverables have just not matched his bravado thus far.
So it's an absolutely massive call now for the owners to judge whether they believe he can turn the ship and in what timescale. And it can only be a leap of faith now for them.
Particularly with the prospect of no further wins in the next three conceivably.
And particularly if an enquiry was made for Hughton and he was interested.
My hunch, however, would be - and specifically if it was the old man - that he'd get his time (or at least a bit more) to try to sort it come the middle / end of October.
Jon might think differently however, as much as he doesn't want ano abysmal failure on his manager selection CV should results not improve and he pulls the trigger earlier.
It goes without saying that we should also be looking for a new CEO.
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Post by chigstoke on Aug 22, 2019 8:08:23 GMT
I've been right behind him and willing to give him time. I always thought this season would be another one of consolidation where we'd finish 7th to 10th, and then we'd have a real crack at promotion in '20-'21. Having seen the pathetic performances this season, and especially tonight, I'm worried we're going to be stuck in a relegation battle all season. Jones looks completely out of his depth on the touchline and unable to change things. His subs have been questionable bordering on ludicrous, and it seems clear the players haven't got a clue what they're supposed to be doing. I'm getting sick of hearing his pre-match pressers about how good things are, only to witness yet another debacle in the next game. He needs to change from his bloody diamond, drop the likes of Butland, Batth, Allen, Ince, Clucas etc, or he needs to go now. I can't see him changing things though so on balance think it would be best if we get rid. I think it's just a matter of a few games (maybe Saturday) till the crowd really turn against him and he's sacked but who the hell will the Board bring in to replace him - that's probably just as worrying as keeping Jones. The replacing him part should he get sacked is of big concern.
I think like a lot on here, our stand out candidate is Chris Hughton.
Unfortunately our pool of managers is thinner this time, and there are 3 obvious ones who won't come to Stoke by their choice.
Hughton Adkins Monk
Jokanovic - Won't come Moyes - Won't come Big Sam - Won't come Bruce - Might not last long at Toon Pulis - Available but most of us sane people don't want him, surely Coates couldn't dream of it? Cowley's - Can see the attraction, not what we need at this stage Campbell - Same as Cowley in that he is not what we need right now
Then you've got those abroad but I suspect we won't be looking at anyone abroad right now.
It's a worrying list really, if we sack him we better make sure we have a suitable replacement on the cards.
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Post by spiderpuss on Aug 22, 2019 8:12:10 GMT
Interesting what they were saying on Quest last night, looking from outside in, they had pretty much given up on NJ and were resigned to him getting the inevitable sack (and soon was their inference). Don't think too many of his signings have added very much and we didn't address key areas. 4 wins in 26 is a wretched record and our win record is now below Paul Lambert's. You'd hope we'd sort it out, however the cards NJ has laid out for himself isn't a winning hand quite clearly.
It's a results based business and a few more terrible reverses will do it for NJ you feel.
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Post by Fred Ferret on Aug 22, 2019 8:14:48 GMT
At the moment I am extremely angry, but I think we have to give him time. Wherever that leads us. That just about sums me up. VIS UNITA FORTIOR
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Post by potterspele on Aug 22, 2019 8:24:09 GMT
I'm still behind him. I'm judging him based on this season as last year he walked into a shambles.
Results have been absolute shit but we've had a mountain to climb in 3 out of 4 games because of some dreadful mistakes from the keeper, arguably all 4 as he could have done better with Derbys first. You cant expect to come from behind every week. The good news is that he absolutely will drop Butland now.
The goals we've conceded are not systemic, they are individual errors every single time and I back him to root them out. He is clearly working his bag off to make this work and for me he will work out which players he can trust not to make mistakes. These same players have a catalogue of errors the size of an old Littlewoods one that has gone back as far as 3 previous managers so that is the point that needs addressing, it's far more deeply rooted than the manager.
The system is working in my opinion, we're creating better chances than our opponents (including last night) and that's with a team that are novices at playing how he wants. That is statistically backed up in the last 4 games, the chances we've missed have been woeful but they are that clear cut that we will put them away over the course of a season. They will understand the diamond more as the season progresses, particularly defensively and once he's settled on a side that don't make these absolute schoolboy mistakes every week we will start to win games and win them convincingly.
We've also just bought in a transfer window full of players to suit him and his system. We would be bringing in a new manager with no guarantee of success who will have to continue the mammoth task of straightening the club out behind the scenes, trying to inspire previously good players out of their shell, shake off a losing mentality and presumably employ an entirely different formation which would effectively write off preseason. It may not be impossible to find but it's always a gamble.
We also ideally need to avoid a culture of sacking managers every 6 months because it sets a bad precedent. This job will become a poison chalice if it isn't already and then the only managers we will be able to attract are the ones that need a last payday. That includes Tony Pulis for anyone calling for him. He's made a complete bollocks everywhere hes been since Palace and roundly hated by every set of fans. Given how toxic the support is currently bringing him in would drive an enormous wedge through it and we would end up with 12,000 in the ground again at best. Categorically that is not what we need.
Last point, I'm not avoiding criticising Jones. He has to learn from last night that the so called first names on the team sheet are the ones that continually let him and the club down. Butland and Allen being the 2 specifically I'm referring to. We clearly need to get back to the training ground and work on the defensive phase with this diamond because positionally we are vulnerable in addition to catastrophic mistakes.
We have to stick with him. Scratch beneath the surface and we are adopting his methods successfully and creating more than enough chances to win games and over the course of the season he will turn this around. He in turn has to get some of those players out of the team for a spell and tighten us up at the back.
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Post by okeydokeystokie2 on Aug 22, 2019 8:33:08 GMT
100% behind him and convinced he can turn it around.
Confidence is shot and this is a team that has got used to losing. Too many players making individual errors, and goals change games.
A win will make a massive difference. Saturday will be really hard, not just because Leeds are a decent team in this league, but because the players will be a little fragile and inhibited. If they can play and have a go, get the crowd behind them and win, it will give the whole club a lift.
We need patience. There's a lot to sort out and it won't happen immediately. Derby showed he is close though.
No crisis at Stoke City. Take a look at the Bury story if you want to stare into the abyss. Norman Smurfwaite might be their saviour...
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Post by stokiejoe on Aug 22, 2019 8:44:06 GMT
Absolutely. Two awful mistakes by Butland set us up to lose. Heads went down and the inevitable result followed.
Butland and Allen need resting. Don't think Ince is a number 10. We have some good players and have seen good signs when they believe in themselves. Just surprised Jones has any hair left as they are clearly totally different in training to match day.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2019 9:11:46 GMT
Hughton would be a terrible fit. AND not what we need right now.
He’s simply not good enough.
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Post by VolvicStokie on Aug 22, 2019 9:18:16 GMT
Yep 100%
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Post by JurgenVandeurzen on Aug 22, 2019 9:22:45 GMT
Yes.
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Post by Northy on Aug 22, 2019 9:26:35 GMT
At the moment, lets see if he learns from last night and drops the key problems.
Ince, clucas Allen and Woods are a powder puff midfield in this division.
The best tackle of the night Was McClean towards the end, he wanted to win that ball, more determination in that one tackle than the midfield put in the whole match.
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Post by shakermaker on Aug 22, 2019 9:34:42 GMT
Completely and totally. However I recognise it is a results based business and if we don't see an upturn soon, even the man himself will admit it doesn't look good. How he responds to yesterdays abysmal performance will decide his Stoke City Fate, and I sincerely hope we turn it around, because if it comes good, we will be amazing. I'm gutted at the moment, absolutely gutted. Agreed on both counts, that I'm still behind Nathan and I'm distraught about the performance last night. I think he's a great guy and desperately want him to succeed. I told myself that I can take defeats on the chin so long as the performances are on an upward curve and we're making chances. Charlton and Derby showed improvement and I was really looking forward to our first win of the season. I was shocked that we actually played worse than at QPR! The only faith I'm clinging to is that Norwich lost 3 of their first 5 games. But we need at least a draw against Leeds to keep the faith.
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Post by george2again on Aug 22, 2019 9:35:54 GMT
Hughton would be a terrible fit. AND not what we need right now. He’s simply not good enough. The bloke we have now is an utter shambles. He talks a good game but on the pitch he is no where near backing it up. We have to stop listening to him talk its all pie on the sky and based on hope. I had a feeling very early on about Rowett and this is no different at all, probaly worse. The most optimistic Stoke fan deep in there heart must know this hads gone already. 1 point in 12 , 9 points off top spot, Leeds to come. He comes across better than Rowett (who wouldnt?) but its just like listening to a kid when he cant get something right. Needs to go ASAP. A win V leeds won't change anything either. We needed a steady hand after Rowett not a gerbil experiment.
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Post by burberrybassist on Aug 22, 2019 9:37:09 GMT
I could see another post league Cup sacking if we get tonked by Leeds consecutively.
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Post by george2again on Aug 22, 2019 9:38:20 GMT
I could see another post league Cup sacking if we get tonked by Leeds consecutively. Hopefully
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Post by thebet365 on Aug 22, 2019 9:47:22 GMT
I'm still behind him, for another 6 games at least.
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Post by samwidge on Aug 22, 2019 9:48:37 GMT
Hughton would be a terrible fit. AND not what we need right now. He’s simply not good enough. Totally agree . I don't get this clammer for Houghton . He's toss !
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Post by gingerninja on Aug 22, 2019 9:49:00 GMT
The Brighton ex scout coming to us is merely a coincidence surely with Hughton being mentioned?!!
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Post by splodge on Aug 22, 2019 9:56:26 GMT
Yes. He said it would take time and he urged patience from the fans. Post Preston this is where he really needs fans' patience. It took him 18 months at Luton and look at the rewards they've reaped for sticking with him. He's had a really difficult squad to manage apart from anything so it was never going to be easy. I know the lack of wins is frustrating but surely sticking with someone who is fundamentally trying to change the club, including the culture, from the bottom up is worth waiting for than some journeyman manager who's earning some bonus retirement money. Give NJ a break I say and let him do his stuff - we've seen glimpses of brilliance, it's a fine line between glimpses and seeing it every week. Do we really want a change now, some dinosaur manager who gets a few wins but ultimately disappoints, and wonder what could have been with NJ?
He always beats Leeds anyway!
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Post by 19notbeaten72 on Aug 22, 2019 10:10:51 GMT
Yes. He said it would take time and he urged patience from the fans. Post Preston this is where he really needs fans' patience. It took him 18 months at Luton and look at the rewards they've reaped for sticking with him. He's had a really difficult squad to manage apart from anything so it was never going to be easy. I know the lack of wins is frustrating but surely sticking with someone who is fundamentally trying to change the club, including the culture, from the bottom up is worth waiting for than some journeyman manager who's earning some bonus retirement money. Give NJ a break I say and let him do his stuff - we've seen glimpses of brilliance, it's a fine line between glimpses and seeing it every week. Do we really want a change now, some dinosaur manager who gets a few wins but ultimately disappoints, and wonder what could have been with NJ? He always beats Leeds anyway! Remind me (we've seen glimpses of brilliance,) are you sure that you have been watching us.
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Post by sheds1862 on Aug 22, 2019 10:22:59 GMT
I hate the ' it took him 18 months at Luton ' argument. Listen to yourselves. Luton bastarding town are not comparable to us ( or they weren't ). He has been backed to the hilt here.
Luton have had a rollercoaster after all the worry of being non league and he jumped on board and was part of the journey.
The two clubs are poles apart for a comparison but now virtually stand as equals
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Post by Gary Hackett on Aug 22, 2019 10:36:19 GMT
When the players go on the pitch I'm behind them and want them to do well. Do I think Jones can be the man to make that happen? Nah, I have zero belief in him. I'm struggling to see how anyone can defend him now. I like a good U turn :-)
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Post by GeneralFaye on Aug 22, 2019 10:39:25 GMT
When the players go on the pitch I'm behind them and want them to do well. Do I think Jones can be the man to make that happen? Nah, I have zero belief in him. I'm struggling to see how anyone can defend him now. I like a good U turn :-) I've had question marks for a while Hackett, maybe you've missed them?
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Post by Gary Hackett on Aug 22, 2019 11:29:51 GMT
I've had question marks for a while Hackett, maybe you've missed them? I know but it was only a few days ago you were quoting something about the mighty Charlton Athletic. Anyway its looking like Tony has polished his barge needlessly as he's going to be tied up dealing with all this for a while now. So we'll have to cancel that trip down memory lane for the time being until TP rocks back up.
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Post by GoBoks on Aug 22, 2019 11:31:53 GMT
We’re certainly behind everyone else in this league.
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Post by thevoid on Aug 22, 2019 11:32:44 GMT
I've been right behind him and willing to give him time. I always thought this season would be another one of consolidation where we'd finish 7th to 10th, and then we'd have a real crack at promotion in '20-'21. Having seen the pathetic performances this season, and especially tonight, I'm worried we're going to be stuck in a relegation battle all season. Jones looks completely out of his depth on the touchline and unable to change things. His subs have been questionable bordering on ludicrous, and it seems clear the players haven't got a clue what they're supposed to be doing. I'm getting sick of hearing his pre-match pressers about how good things are, only to witness yet another debacle in the next game. He needs to change from his bloody diamond, drop the likes of Butland, Batth, Allen, Ince, Clucas etc, or he needs to go now. I can't see him changing things though so on balance think it would be best if we get rid. I think it's just a matter of a few games (maybe Saturday) till the crowd really turn against him and he's sacked but who the hell will the Board bring in to replace him - that's probably just as worrying as keeping Jones. The replacing him part should he get sacked is of big concern. I think like a lot on here, our stand out candidate is Chris Hughton.
Unfortunately our pool of managers is thinner this time, and there are 3 obvious ones who won't come to Stoke by their choice. Hughton Adkins Monk
Jokanovic - Won't come Moyes - Won't come Big Sam - Won't come Bruce - Might not last long at Toon Pulis - Available but most of us sane people don't want him, surely Coates couldn't dream of it? Cowley's - Can see the attraction, not what we need at this stage Campbell - Same as Cowley in that he is not what we need right now Then you've got those abroad but I suspect we won't be looking at anyone abroad right now. It's a worrying list really, if we sack him we better make sure we have a suitable replacement on the cards.
Kenny Jackett? He's got a decent record wherever he's been
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