|
Post by werrington on Jun 30, 2019 9:15:18 GMT
I'm surprised most transfers these days are not free transfers. If I was a player why not run down your contract and you get a bigger joining bonus from the club you join as they don't have to pay your old club a fee? Steve Macmanaman is a very good example of players getting a huge signing on fee for running down their contract He was in his final year and was valued at £11m and Real Madrid bid that amount, he chose to run down the final year of his Liverpool contract and signed for Real Madrid 12 months later for free....but of course it wasn’t free for Real as he then negotiated an alleged £6m signing on fee It meant he’d got himself a huge signing on fee before his wages and Real Madrid had saved £5m.....it’s all relevant no matter who the player and his value
|
|
|
Post by zerps on Jun 30, 2019 9:19:30 GMT
The concept that they’re shit because there wasn’t a transfer fee is up there with pointing at planes.
|
|
|
Post by cousindupree on Jun 30, 2019 9:20:45 GMT
Anything is possible but for those who still believe that these are 100% Jones signings that’s not possible. Jones has showed that his only knowledge stems back a few years ago from some lad from Charlton who once showed a little potential who Jones now sees as his pivotal positional player (QPR don’t want him) in his fabled all conquering conquest of the Championship. How people still fall for the crap that Scholes spews amazes me. Of course they're not "100% Jones signings" in the sense that Jones is sent into a dark room to try and divine a name from somewhere. We've got a very expensive scouting department and if they had no input, what's the point of them? But there's ZERO evidence that these aren't the players Jones wants. He just could not be any more explicit that that's the case. www.stokesentinel.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/stoke-city-transfers-nathan-jones-3019274“I’m really pleased that we have managed to make these five signings. It has been an ongoing process for three to four months and I’d like to thank the club because they have backed my judgement. “These players are signings that I think are going to be key for us in terms of enhancing the environment and improving results" How anyone could listen to that 10-minute interview him and still think this lot weren't his picks I've got no idea? www.stokesentinel.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/stoke-city-transfers-nathan-jones-3036092“We don’t just go out and think, ‘He’s a good footballer so let’s get him in’. We’ve done due diligence on every single person, massive due diligence, four months of due diligence on everyone we’ve brought in because we’ve needed to change the environment. “It’s already a different place. We are really looking forward to what we can do.” “In my recruitment I don’t think I ever make too many mistakes. We get it right when we make signings because we know exactly why we bring people in.” I am not convinced our esteemed recruitment team had much to do with these signings. The process for all the signings to date seem to be either a) Jones knows them as with the Barnsley chaps, Cousins and Gregory ( recommended by his buddy at Millwall) and/or scanning the out of contracts lists i.e Powell Gregory and Ward , which to be honest I could do from my home in Atlanta and Powell simply by reputation. I give you Ward was a bit left field. Jones has no interest in overseas players (can't say foreign it seems on here) so forget our overseas scouts. It will be interesting to see if we sign anyone else where they come from. However at the moment I think we can limit Carto's activities to schmoozing up to agents, which in fairness he should be ok at. Oh and of course spending time at Beswicks office and getting the drinks in at The White Lion Barthomley.
|
|
|
Post by bayernoatcake on Jun 30, 2019 9:42:27 GMT
I'm surprised most transfers these days are not free transfers. If I was a player why not run down your contract and you get a bigger joining bonus from the club you join as they don't have to pay your old club a fee? Steve Macmanaman is a very good example of players getting a huge signing on fee for running down their contract He was in his final year and was valued at £11m and Real Madrid bid that amount, he chose to run down the final year of his Liverpool contract and signed for Real Madrid 12 months later for free....but of course it wasn’t free for Real as he then negotiated an alleged £6m signing on fee It meant he’d got himself a huge signing on fee before his wages and Real Madrid had saved £5m.....it’s all relevant no matter who the player and his value Gregory and Powell are going to be two of the highest paid players in this league apparently 👍
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2019 9:46:13 GMT
My worry is, it is free transfers from a limited pool, mainly players that NJ has some kind of prior knowledge of. Pukki at Norwich last season was signed on a free but he hasn’t played in league one (to my knowledge) So if there are players he's had some kind of prior knowledge of, and we've got the inside track for them because of that, should we let them go in lieu of trying to find other unknown players? I think its good when manager's go back for players they used to work with a few years ago - it shows the utmost respect for the player and that they are the kind of player/person they want around the place. If we've got the chance to get them in, why not?
|
|
|
Post by adi on Jun 30, 2019 9:48:26 GMT
Baldock 650k Basham Free Duffy Free Egan £4.1m Fleck Free Freeman Free Henderson Loan McGoldrick Free (after trial) Norwood £2m O'Connell 250k Sharp £630k Stevens 225k Sheff Utd's most-used 12 players cost just over £8m. It can be done. The bulk of the division still really don't like spending money and the type of wages we're spending on the likes of Powell and Gregory would give them several heart attacks. I bet even this new 'frugal' 2019 Stoke is operating on a level that few Championship teams can operate at The OP and myself have been educated 😀 top stuff.
|
|
|
Post by tony1234 on Jun 30, 2019 9:57:21 GMT
No. Many success factors are missing:
Sheff U did it but with a very stable management in place and several years of learning a system with a close knit group of pros. It was won with togetherness, focus, and stability. (Cardiff got promoted this way too)
Norwich did it but with some really leading talent in their manager and DOF - developed and honed at leading clubs. (Newcastle, Villa, Huddersfield, Boro, Fulham, wolves... had similar levels of managerial/DOF experience in elite environments). People with this experience a) know how to win, b) secure great loans, c) know the European markets as well as domestic ones and use them well - this is aside d) being coaches that have beat off competition to get where they are.
People are forgetting we have plumped and gambled heavily on a guy with half a good year at Luton. Meanwhile, whereas the technical footballing leadership of our club is from Leek. Pls compare to the aforementioned clubs where it was gained at Atletico Madrids, Borrussia Dortmunds, Liverpools and national set ups, surrounded, undoubtedly with the top fitness coaches, sports scientists, psychologists, nutriotionists, consultants etc.
Hope we finsih top 10, expecting 14th-18th if nothing changes from now to the end of the window (Jones gone by around Xmas) ..... but am also being told on here we will get better players in, so am waiting to upgrade the prognosis once we find a way to create some goals, particularly from wing backs, but also CMF, as well as pace up front.
|
|
|
Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jun 30, 2019 9:59:02 GMT
That people still don’t get how the system works amazes me. Yeah why else would we sign a 34 year old from Beswicks’ other club? If Jones didn’t want him, he wouldn’t be here.
|
|
|
Post by lordb on Jun 30, 2019 9:59:44 GMT
No. Many success factors are missing: Sheff U did it but with a very stable management in place and several years of learning a system with a close knit group of pros. It was won with togetherness, focus, and stability. (Cardiff got promoted this way too) Norwich did it but with some really leading talent in their manager and DOF - developed and honed at leading clubs. (Newcastle, Villa, Huddersfield, Boro, Fulham... had similar levels of managerial/DOF experience in elite environments). People with this experience a) know how to win, b) secure great loans, c) know the European markets as well as domestic ones and use them well - this is aside d) being coaches that have beat off competition to get where they are. People are forgetting we have plumped and gambled heavily on a guy with half a good year at Luton. Meanwhile, our whereas the technical footballing leadership of our club is from Leek. Pls compare to the aforementioned clubs where it was gained at Atletico Madrids, Borrussia Dortmunds, Liverpools and national set ups, surrounded, undoubtedly with the top fitness coaches, sports scientists, psychologists, nutriotionists, consultants etc. Hope we finsih top 10, expecting 14th-18th if nothing changes from now to the end of the window (Jones gone by around Xmas) ..... but am also being told on here we will get better players in, so am waiting to upgrade the prognosis once we find a way to create some goals, particularly from wing backs, but also CMF, as well as pace up front. 'half a good year at Luton' Incorrect Two good years all told. Still a gamble? Maybe but not as much as you've made out.
|
|
|
Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jun 30, 2019 10:00:57 GMT
Of course they're not "100% Jones signings" in the sense that Jones is sent into a dark room to try and divine a name from somewhere. We've got a very expensive scouting department and if they had no input, what's the point of them? But there's ZERO evidence that these aren't the players Jones wants. He just could not be any more explicit that that's the case. www.stokesentinel.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/stoke-city-transfers-nathan-jones-3019274“I’m really pleased that we have managed to make these five signings. It has been an ongoing process for three to four months and I’d like to thank the club because they have backed my judgement. “These players are signings that I think are going to be key for us in terms of enhancing the environment and improving results" How anyone could listen to that 10-minute interview him and still think this lot weren't his picks I've got no idea? www.stokesentinel.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/stoke-city-transfers-nathan-jones-3036092“We don’t just go out and think, ‘He’s a good footballer so let’s get him in’. We’ve done due diligence on every single person, massive due diligence, four months of due diligence on everyone we’ve brought in because we’ve needed to change the environment. “It’s already a different place. We are really looking forward to what we can do.” “In my recruitment I don’t think I ever make too many mistakes. We get it right when we make signings because we know exactly why we bring people in.” I am not convinced our esteemed recruitment team had much to do with these signings. The process for all the signings to date seem to be either a) Jones knows them as with the Barnsley chaps, Cousins and Gregory ( recommended by his buddy at Millwall) and/or scanning the out of contracts lists i.e Powell Gregory and Ward , which to be honest I could do from my home in Atlanta and Powell simply by reputation. I give you Ward was a bit left field. Jones has no interest in overseas players (can't say foreign it seems on here) so forget our overseas scouts. It will be interesting to see if we sign anyone else where they come from. However at the moment I think we can limit Carto's activities to schmoozing up to agents, which in fairness he should be ok at. Oh and of course spending time at Beswicks office and getting the drinks in at The White Lion Barthomley. You can say foreign, just not in a pejorative way.
|
|
|
Post by redrob on Jun 30, 2019 10:03:24 GMT
I suspect that the transfer policy is to built a team with frees and low cost to get the basics fixed but we need goals so using the money saved and possibly sales Butland? To go balls deep for Gayle
|
|
|
Post by werrington on Jun 30, 2019 10:07:53 GMT
I suspect that the transfer policy is to built a team with frees and low cost to get the basics fixed but we need goals so using the money saved and possibly sales Butland? To go balls deep for Gayle Jeez, frees and low cost!!!....have a read how the Bosman thing works Rob
|
|
|
Post by cousindupree on Jun 30, 2019 10:16:39 GMT
I am not convinced our esteemed recruitment team had much to do with these signings. The process for all the signings to date seem to be either a) Jones knows them as with the Barnsley chaps, Cousins and Gregory ( recommended by his buddy at Millwall) and/or scanning the out of contracts lists i.e Powell Gregory and Ward , which to be honest I could do from my home in Atlanta and Powell simply by reputation. I give you Ward was a bit left field. Jones has no interest in overseas players (can't say foreign it seems on here) so forget our overseas scouts. It will be interesting to see if we sign anyone else where they come from. However at the moment I think we can limit Carto's activities to schmoozing up to agents, which in fairness he should be ok at. Oh and of course spending time at Beswicks office and getting the drinks in at The White Lion Barthomley. You can say foreign, just not in a pejorative way. Thanks for clearing that up. As someone who has spent more than half his life living as a foreigner I ain't going to be pejorative.
|
|
|
Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jun 30, 2019 10:19:09 GMT
You can say foreign, just not in a pejorative way. Thanks for clearing that up. As someone who has spent more than half his life living as a foreigner I ain't going to be pejorative. No problem. Not sure why you thought you couldn’t say ‘foreign’.
|
|
|
Post by medwaypotter on Jun 30, 2019 10:53:41 GMT
Thanks for clearing that up. As someone who has spent more than half his life living as a foreigner I ain't going to be pejorative. No problem. Not sure why you thought you couldn’t say ‘foreign’. Probably because Bayern accused someone of being a racist when they wrote foreigner.
|
|
|
Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jun 30, 2019 10:58:58 GMT
No problem. Not sure why you thought you couldn’t say ‘foreign’. Probably because Bayern accused someone of being a racist when they wrote foreigner. That’s not actually what happened though is it? It was the negative connotations and context that was the issue, not the use of the word.
|
|
|
Post by Pugsley on Jun 30, 2019 11:13:01 GMT
Baldock 650k Basham Free Duffy Free Egan £4.1m Fleck Free Freeman Free Henderson Loan McGoldrick Free (after trial) Norwood £2m O'Connell 250k Sharp £630k Stevens 225k Sheff Utd's most-used 12 players cost just over £8m. It can be done. The bulk of the division still really don't like spending money and the type of wages we're spending on the likes of Powell and Gregory would give them several heart attacks. I bet even this new 'frugal' 2019 Stoke is operating on a level that few Championship teams can operate at That's great for Sheff Utd. Trouble is they will struggle to get over 20 points in the PL.
|
|
|
Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jun 30, 2019 11:16:07 GMT
Baldock 650k Basham Free Duffy Free Egan £4.1m Fleck Free Freeman Free Henderson Loan McGoldrick Free (after trial) Norwood £2m O'Connell 250k Sharp £630k Stevens 225k Sheff Utd's most-used 12 players cost just over £8m. It can be done. The bulk of the division still really don't like spending money and the type of wages we're spending on the likes of Powell and Gregory would give them several heart attacks. I bet even this new 'frugal' 2019 Stoke is operating on a level that few Championship teams can operate at That's great for Sheff Utd. Trouble is they will struggle to get over 20 points in the PL. That’s a different problem though isn’t it?
|
|
|
Post by werrington on Jun 30, 2019 11:17:44 GMT
Baldock 650k Basham Free Duffy Free Egan £4.1m Fleck Free Freeman Free Henderson Loan McGoldrick Free (after trial) Norwood £2m O'Connell 250k Sharp £630k Stevens 225k Sheff Utd's most-used 12 players cost just over £8m. It can be done. The bulk of the division still really don't like spending money and the type of wages we're spending on the likes of Powell and Gregory would give them several heart attacks. I bet even this new 'frugal' 2019 Stoke is operating on a level that few Championship teams can operate at That's great for Sheff Utd. Trouble is they will struggle to get over 20 points in the PL. That’s the issue but you worry about that once you’ve got promoted It’s virtually impossible to buy players in the championship who’ll then do you a job in the premiership
|
|
|
Post by Pugsley on Jun 30, 2019 11:19:56 GMT
That's great for Sheff Utd. Trouble is they will struggle to get over 20 points in the PL. That’s a different problem though isn’t it? Yes, if you're an advocate of short term thinking. Surely you have to have an eye on the future. The team we have assembled will need a fortune spending on it if they go up.
|
|
|
Post by Pugsley on Jun 30, 2019 11:20:24 GMT
That's great for Sheff Utd. Trouble is they will struggle to get over 20 points in the PL. That’s the issue but you worry about that once you’ve got promoted It’s virtually impossible to buy players in the championship who’ll then do you a job in the premiership Clearly incorrect.
|
|
|
Post by werrington on Jun 30, 2019 11:22:35 GMT
That’s the issue but you worry about that once you’ve got promoted It’s virtually impossible to buy players in the championship who’ll then do you a job in the premiership Clearly incorrect. Is it? Go on then
|
|
|
Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jun 30, 2019 11:23:01 GMT
That’s a different problem though isn’t it? Yes, if you're an advocate of short term thinking. Surely you have to have an eye on the future. The team we have assembled will need a fortune spending on it if they go up. You can’t assume you’re going to be promoted. It’s hard work. You get yourself promoted and then you make the signings to keep you there. It’s what we did in 2008. It’s what most teams who get promoted unexpectedly and successfully make a fist of survival in the Prem do.
|
|
|
Post by southcoaststokie on Jun 30, 2019 11:23:11 GMT
Yes is the answer, as a team with good loans can also get promoted, good players on free's are good players that probably would have cost a few Bob if they were in the middle of their contract, but the main ingredient along with good players is everyone pulling together and playing as a team , hopefully Nathan has got this right and soon transfers this to the stands and maybe even this message board 😉
|
|
|
Post by Pugsley on Jun 30, 2019 11:23:44 GMT
|
|
|
Post by werrington on Jun 30, 2019 11:26:00 GMT
They spent a fortune in getting promoted....we tried it last year and failed, you can’t continually throw money at it as that’s financial madness Fair play to wolves but they are a huge one off
|
|
|
Post by Pugsley on Jun 30, 2019 11:26:12 GMT
Yes, if you're an advocate of short term thinking. Surely you have to have an eye on the future. The team we have assembled will need a fortune spending on it if they go up. You can’t assume you’re going to be promoted. It’s hard work. You get yourself promoted and then you make the signings to keep you there. It’s what we did in 2008. It’s what most teams who get promoted unexpectedly and successfully make a fist of survival in the Prem do. Yeah, hard work. That's us screwed.
|
|
|
Post by mrcoke on Jun 30, 2019 11:26:57 GMT
The key word is "team"; the answer is yes if the team is good enough, which is more than individual talents
It must be remembered we still have a very expensive squad. Granted some of them will never play for Stoke again, but Rowett spent a huge amount of money on players.
Jones job is to find the missing pieces of the jigsaw to create the team he wants, with the talent he inherited.
I think we have to shift some of the big money players off the books yet before Jones can spend on an expensive piece for his jigsaw.
|
|
|
Post by Absolution on Jun 30, 2019 11:28:20 GMT
That’s a different problem though isn’t it? Yes, if you're an advocate of short term thinking. Surely you have to have an eye on the future. The team we have assembled will need a fortune spending on it if they go up. As with any squad that gets promoted, there'll be players who can cut it in the Prem and players who can't. We'd need to spend big, but we have owners who can do that, and if we were back in the Prem, they'd actually be allowed to. Short termism or not, that particular problem isn't as pressing as the current one of actually getting back up there. Cross that bridge when we come to it.
|
|
|
Post by Davef on Jun 30, 2019 11:33:58 GMT
They spent a fortune in getting promoted....we tried it last year and failed, you can’t continually throw money at it as that’s financial madness Fair play to wolves but they are a huge one off Wolves spent a fortune last summer, probably the most any promoted club has ever spent.
|
|