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Post by bathstoke on May 27, 2019 13:29:47 GMT
For those who don't see Brexit as the main issue (!)....how do we , the electorate, oppose this through the ballot box? It would be nice to hear from those who believe that the EU is fundamentally a democratic institution. ) I'll give you a clue.....you can't oppose it....it's not in your remit to influence decisions).....and on any case most of the British electorate are not interested. Why is the EU having a defence mechanism any different that anyone else having one...
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Post by salopstick on May 27, 2019 13:33:26 GMT
For those who don't see Brexit as the main issue (!)....how do we , the electorate, oppose this through the ballot box? It would be nice to hear from those who believe that the EU is fundamentally a democratic institution. ) I'll give you a clue.....you can't oppose it....it's not in your remit to influence decisions).....and on any case most of the British electorate are not interested. Why is the EU having a defence mechanism any different that anyone else having one... Every country has a defence. We formed nato to have an alliance. We need USA in that alliance We have the ability to join as joint forces with different countries under nato and the un Why the need and the expense of a separate EU army? It’s seen as a power grab and an extra beaurocracy that is unnecessary and is more a show of power than a need for the Army. The EU claims to have provided peace for 75 years so why the need of a separate Army.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on May 27, 2019 13:36:54 GMT
For those who don't see Brexit as the main issue (!)....how do we , the electorate, oppose this through the ballot box? It would be nice to hear from those who believe that the EU is fundamentally a democratic institution. ) I'll give you a clue.....you can't oppose it....it's not in your remit to influence decisions).....and on any case most of the British electorate are not interested. Why is the EU having a defence mechanism any different that anyone else having one... For me because it isn't a country, we have NATO and I don't want our ( anything) armed forces in the control of any other ( unelected / unaccountable) body. I've answered your question... how come you don't answer any?
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Post by felonious on May 27, 2019 13:38:50 GMT
For those who don't see Brexit as the main issue (!)....how do we , the electorate, oppose this through the ballot box? It would be nice to hear from those who believe that the EU is fundamentally a democratic institution. ) I'll give you a clue.....you can't oppose it....it's not in your remit to influence decisions).....and on any case most of the British electorate are not interested. Why is the EU having a defence mechanism any different that anyone else having one... Why does a trade organisation need an army? I think Guy Verhofstadt should be able to explain this one to you. It's so this trade organisation can expand to the banks of the Volga.
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Post by starkiller on May 27, 2019 13:42:17 GMT
Time to stop compromising and negotiating with the losers. It is this that has been catastrophic for this country. Giving them this has led to the losers whinging and dictating for three years, and almost borderline mental illness as they add up numbers from all over the place to try to claim victories. Numbers on marches, petitions, ages of voters, flags outside parliament and now losers in an election. Fucking comical. Time to steamroll through Brexit, force through the democratic will so they accept it. And get the fuck out and on with dealing with it. Are you moving back here to help with the steamrolling? That's what the Parliament was elected to do.
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Post by bathstoke on May 27, 2019 13:46:42 GMT
Why is the EU having a defence mechanism any different that anyone else having one... For me because it isn't a country, we have NATO and I don't want our ( anything) armed forces in the control of any other ( unelected / unaccountable) body. I've answered your question... how come you don't answer any? Isn’t there an issue with certain member states not pulling their weight, militarily. That’s an accusation levied by the Yanks...
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Post by salopstick on May 27, 2019 14:00:22 GMT
For me because it isn't a country, we have NATO and I don't want our ( anything) armed forces in the control of any other ( unelected / unaccountable) body. I've answered your question... how come you don't answer any? Isn’t there an issue with certain member states not pulling their weight, militarily. That’s an accusation levied by the Yanks... Oh yeah the EU will soon get the Dutch to stop smoking weed and cut their hair
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Post by bigjohnritchie on May 27, 2019 14:01:33 GMT
For me because it isn't a country, we have NATO and I don't want our ( anything) armed forces in the control of any other ( unelected / unaccountable) body. I've answered your question... how come you don't answer any? Isn’t there an issue with certain member states not pulling their weight, militarily. That’s an accusation levied by the Yanks... I think so but I've little idea really, probably too much "detail" for me to know what actually is the situation. I know that Trump did say that few of the NATO countries actually pay their promised/ agreed percentage, hence his caution in respect of NATO. I think he has a point. In theory NATO is an alliance of like minded nations coming together for mutual defence, what is the EU trying to achieve that's different other than power and control for themselves ( and " themselves" is a narrow , unelected group in Brussels ) and thereby strengthening ever closer union towards a United States of Europe. Those like yourself preach cooperation between nations rather than " pulling the drawbridge up", that's what NATO is about isn't it...do you think that we should have a European army and NATO? I take it that you are in favour of an EU army then....is that in addition to a UK army? Like him or hate him Trump believes he has largely tried to do what he said when elected" put America first".. Ditto for me in his trade war with China...he could have chosen to live with the imbalance for an easy life but chose to take it on.
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Post by salopstick on May 27, 2019 14:17:49 GMT
The more we have an EU Army, foreign policy, domestic policy etc the more control they have.
The aim is an United States of Europe.
Can’t be right
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Post by starkiller on May 27, 2019 14:19:57 GMT
Time to stop compromising and negotiating with the losers. It is this that has been catastrophic for this country. Giving them this has led to the losers whinging and dictating for three years, and almost borderline mental illness as they add up numbers from all over the place to try to claim victories. Numbers on marches, petitions, ages of voters, flags outside parliament and now losers in an election. Fucking comical. Time to steamroll through Brexit, force through the democratic will so they accept it. And get the fuck out and on with dealing with it. Blitzkrieg Public mandate in a democratic vote. It is totalitarian to ignore it and piss about any longer.
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Post by bathstoke on May 27, 2019 14:21:58 GMT
Isn’t there an issue with certain member states not pulling their weight, militarily. That’s an accusation levied by the Yanks... I think so but I've little idea really, probably too much "detail" for me to know what actually is the situation. I know that Trump did say that few of the NATO countries actually pay their promised/ agreed percentage, hence his caution in respect of NATO. I think he has a point. In theory NATO is an alliance of like minded nations coming together for mutual defence, what is the EU trying to achieve that's different other than power and control for themselves ( and " themselves" is a narrow , unelected group in Brussels ) and thereby strengthening ever closer union towards a United States of Europe. Those like yourself preach cooperation between nations rather than " pulling the drawbridge up", that's what NATO is about isn't it...do you think that we should have a European army and NATO? I take it that you are in favour of an EU army then....is that in addition to a UK army? Like him or hate him Trump believes he has largely tried to do what he said when elected" put America first".. Ditto for me in his trade war with China...he could have chosen to live with the imbalance for an easy life but chose to take it on. My issue isn’t necessarily about cooperation or not with the EU. It’s with the whimsical way that Cameron diced with our nation & its aftermath. As if we didn’t have enough problems to deal with & Trump isn’t much better with his shoot from the hip attitude...
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Post by Deleted on May 27, 2019 14:25:09 GMT
For me because it isn't a country, we have NATO and I don't want our ( anything) armed forces in the control of any other ( unelected / unaccountable) body. I've answered your question... how come you don't answer any? Isn’t there an issue with certain member states not pulling their weight, militarily. That’s an accusation levied by the Yanks... I suppose it depends how we define "pulling their weight?" If it means refusing to meddle in other countries affairs, bombing them indiscriminately, helping to replace one dictator with several groups of even more sinister dictators, and causing thousands of deaths and political turmoil by doing so, then fair play to them for not pulling their weight I say......
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Post by bigjohnritchie on May 27, 2019 14:29:31 GMT
I think so but I've little idea really, probably too much "detail" for me to know what actually is the situation. I know that Trump did say that few of the NATO countries actually pay their promised/ agreed percentage, hence his caution in respect of NATO. I think he has a point. In theory NATO is an alliance of like minded nations coming together for mutual defence, what is the EU trying to achieve that's different other than power and control for themselves ( and " themselves" is a narrow , unelected group in Brussels ) and thereby strengthening ever closer union towards a United States of Europe. Those like yourself preach cooperation between nations rather than " pulling the drawbridge up", that's what NATO is about isn't it...do you think that we should have a European army and NATO? I take it that you are in favour of an EU army then....is that in addition to a UK army? Like him or hate him Trump believes he has largely tried to do what he said when elected" put America first".. Ditto for me in his trade war with China...he could have chosen to live with the imbalance for an easy life but chose to take it on. My issue isn’t necessarily about cooperation or not with the EU. It’s with the whimsical way that Cameron diced with our nation & its aftermath. As if we didn’t have enough problems to deal with & Trump isn’t much better with his shoot from the hip attitude... In my opinion what you are saying is " I want to stay in the EU, so I don't think that we should ask other people for their opinion or they just might want to leave" Lo and behold that's what happened. Unbelievable Jeff.
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Post by rogerjonesisgod on May 27, 2019 15:03:21 GMT
Corbyn has now lost:
- a general election - two sets of local elections - a European election - a confidence vote from his own party - over 100 MPs from his front bench - 8 MPs to ChangeUK
He'll soon be "for the few , not for any" at this rate.
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Post by felonious on May 27, 2019 15:05:47 GMT
I think so but I've little idea really, probably too much "detail" for me to know what actually is the situation. I know that Trump did say that few of the NATO countries actually pay their promised/ agreed percentage, hence his caution in respect of NATO. I think he has a point. In theory NATO is an alliance of like minded nations coming together for mutual defence, what is the EU trying to achieve that's different other than power and control for themselves ( and " themselves" is a narrow , unelected group in Brussels ) and thereby strengthening ever closer union towards a United States of Europe. Those like yourself preach cooperation between nations rather than " pulling the drawbridge up", that's what NATO is about isn't it...do you think that we should have a European army and NATO? I take it that you are in favour of an EU army then....is that in addition to a UK army? Like him or hate him Trump believes he has largely tried to do what he said when elected" put America first".. Ditto for me in his trade war with China...he could have chosen to live with the imbalance for an easy life but chose to take it on. My issue isn’t necessarily about cooperation or not with the EU. It’s with the whimsical way that Cameron diced with our nation & its aftermath. As if we didn’t have enough problems to deal with & Trump isn’t much better with his shoot from the hip attitude... He should have offered a referendum and then asked advice from Blair and Major on how to renege on a promise. Fortunately for them they didn't have UKIP to deal with otherwise they wouldn't have been able to ignore leavers so easily. In Cameron's defence he understood from the Scottish independence referendum that if you put project fear into hyperdrive together with your associates the Libdems and Labour there's probably no prospect of the vote not going your way. Unfortunately people have long memories and after poor treaty negotiation after poor treaty negotiation and broken referenda promises there was a groundswell that caused the establishment parties to miscalculate badly.
You might have been happy with the status quo over the last 40 years Bath but 17.4 million people weren't. It appears however that they've been much more accepting of the democratic process over that intervening period than Remainers are now. Brexit hasn't made people unhappy since 2016, many people have been unhappy for decades with the EU and it's never ending destination of travel.
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Post by felonious on May 27, 2019 15:07:27 GMT
Corbyn has now lost: - a general election - two sets of local elections - a European election - a confidence vote from his own party - over 100 MPs from his front bench - 8 MPs to ChangeUK He'll soon be "for the few , not for any" at this rate. But he's got Momentum on his side.
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Post by wagsastokie on May 27, 2019 15:10:52 GMT
Isn’t there an issue with certain member states not pulling their weight, militarily. That’s an accusation levied by the Yanks... I suppose it depends how we define "pulling their weight?" If it means refusing to meddle in other countries affairs, bombing them indiscriminately, helping to replace one dictator with several groups of even more sinister dictators, and causing thousands of deaths and political turmoil by doing so, then fair play to them for not pulling their weight I say...... Proved to be a real duplicitous bastard that Blair fellow
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Post by bathstoke on May 27, 2019 15:23:57 GMT
My issue isn’t necessarily about cooperation or not with the EU. It’s with the whimsical way that Cameron diced with our nation & its aftermath. As if we didn’t have enough problems to deal with & Trump isn’t much better with his shoot from the hip attitude... In my opinion what you are saying is " I want to stay in the EU, so I don't think that we should ask other people for their opinion or they just might want to leave" Lo and behold that's what happened. Unbelievable Jeff. IMO, What you’re saying is, I’ll ask Bath a question & then answer it how I want 😂
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Post by bigjohnritchie on May 27, 2019 15:25:36 GMT
In my opinion what you are saying is " I want to stay in the EU, so I don't think that we should ask other people for their opinion or they just might want to leave" Lo and behold that's what happened. Unbelievable Jeff. IMO, What you’re saying is, I’ll ask Bath a question & then answer it how I want 😂 As I say you don't seem to answer any.
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Post by Deleted on May 27, 2019 16:19:00 GMT
The more we have an EU Army, foreign policy, domestic policy etc the more control they have. The aim is an United States of Europe. Can’t be right The very most capacity the EU should operate under is to help facilitate trade. Not a damn penny of any country's tax should go towards that, rather it should be a group of MEP's agreeing trade deal breifings to take back to westminster and other parliaments to agree or disagree on and come back with a better deal for everyone. Not this absolute shower we're in now... Fucking Army? What for??
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Post by thevoid on May 27, 2019 16:38:25 GMT
Corbyn has now lost: - a general election - two sets of local elections - a European election - a confidence vote from his own party - over 100 MPs from his front bench - 8 MPs to ChangeUK He'll soon be "for the few , not for any" at this rate. Specialist in failure.
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Post by xchpotter on May 27, 2019 16:54:52 GMT
The more we have an EU Army, foreign policy, domestic policy etc the more control they have. The aim is an United States of Europe. Can’t be right The very most capacity the EU should operate under is to help facilitate trade. Not a damn penny of any country's tax should go towards that, rather it should be a group of MEP's agreeing trade deal breifings to take back to westminster and other parliaments to agree or disagree on and come back with a better deal for everyone. Not this absolute shower we're in now... Fucking Army? What for?? I know. It’s ironic that Brexiteers are called Nazis and far right, but they aren’t the ones talking about “uniting” Europe and creating an army. Mmmm...where have we seen this before? I bet it’s one of the reasons Poland are glad to be in the EU.😂😂😂😂
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Post by trickydicky73 on May 27, 2019 17:00:47 GMT
Brexit Party is just the latest name for NF/BNP/UKIP, and basically just has the UKIP votes. It's the same every time, the nationalist party gets TOO racist, and the successful parts of it rebrand as a nationalist but not as racist party, then in 10 years they do it again. The good news with this is the people had the choice between explicitly racist UKIP and "honestly,it's about Europe" Brexit Party and chose the less racist option. I am calling bullshit on that. Its not racist to have genuine concerns about immigration. I lived with someone who was the daughter of a couple from the Windrush Generation. I voted for Brexit. Am I suddenly racist?
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Post by xchpotter on May 27, 2019 17:06:29 GMT
Brexit Party is just the latest name for NF/BNP/UKIP, and basically just has the UKIP votes. It's the same every time, the nationalist party gets TOO racist, and the successful parts of it rebrand as a nationalist but not as racist party, then in 10 years they do it again. The good news with this is the people had the choice between explicitly racist UKIP and "honestly,it's about Europe" Brexit Party and chose the less racist option. I am calling bullshit on that. Its not racist to have genuine concerns about immigration. I lived with someone who was the daughter of a couple from the Windrush Generation. I voted for Brexit. Am I suddenly racist? You must be if you voted for Brexit...it’s the most simple concept for Remainers to understand.
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Post by PotterLog on May 27, 2019 17:15:16 GMT
Brexit Party is just the latest name for NF/BNP/UKIP, and basically just has the UKIP votes. It's the same every time, the nationalist party gets TOO racist, and the successful parts of it rebrand as a nationalist but not as racist party, then in 10 years they do it again. The good news with this is the people had the choice between explicitly racist UKIP and "honestly,it's about Europe" Brexit Party and chose the less racist option. The BNP and the NF? Your head’s gone mate
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Post by zerps on May 27, 2019 17:16:28 GMT
It’s ok the race card has been played 😆
Jesus titty fucking Christ
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Post by trickydicky73 on May 27, 2019 17:16:30 GMT
I am calling bullshit on that. Its not racist to have genuine concerns about immigration. I lived with someone who was the daughter of a couple from the Windrush Generation. I voted for Brexit. Am I suddenly racist? You must be if you voted for Brexit...it’s the most simple concept for Remainers to understand. Cheers, mate. I can't tell you angry I get with this laziness. I have had Nazi salutes and heard monkey chants. Don't fucking dare call me racist.
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Post by zerps on May 27, 2019 17:21:40 GMT
My cat is ginger ffs
So confusing
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Post by partickpotter on May 27, 2019 17:31:09 GMT
What do you want to happen, Sheiky? Honestly? I think we need a General Election and then get out with a deal mate. Here's the funny thing - there is a deal ready and waiting to be signed. And it is the one and only one - because that is what the EU have decided and they haven't shown any indication of budging. So, May's legacy as PM may be the deal she couldn't get through Parliament passes when she is no longer at #10. Wouldn't that be ironic!
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Post by hammered on May 27, 2019 23:32:33 GMT
My take: Watching the hopeful, vacant, glazed over demeanor's on the BBC last night was the best return I'd seen on my license fee for years.
To spin getting your arse royally pumped as a win for collective remain leaning parties is absurd. 35% minimum voted for WTO asap. As a FFP GE Farage would be PM with a massive majority.
The whole country (London/Jockville exc) turned light blue and they will hold the biggest number of EuroMP's in Brussels.
To dismiss a 6 week old party the right to a bit of credit simply ices the cake of entitled incredulity that so many of plebs can still think for themselves.
Watching Thornberry demonstrate her elementary math live on air was a special moment - particularly when the penny dropped that Jeremy had fucked up by not calling remain and that Bollocks to Brexit seemed to work after all.
Tories? Boris - is a cunt and a duplicitous one at that but still probably and likely tool to Tory revival but Farage has his number etc.. I honestly can't say I like or trust any of them.
Who-ever is PM next has to deliver a PROPER exit by 31.10.19 else Farage will up the game. Corbyn is pointless - Labour are fucked unless they get real with their core base or define what they really stand for. Just repeating "we want a GE" ain't cutting it.
Chukka Cuks are gonna suck up to any taker now. Frankly as political jokes they need to survive just to amplify bare faced contempt with reality. Soubery suggesting she's any voice after getting stuffed on her own turf - surely the incentives to defy the obvious can't exceed the humiliation?
Greens - fair play. Lot's of $oros here - Farage will open the debate and destroy the argument for tax/levys and legislation which damages our competitiveness v global powers that don't give a shit.
Frankly - we do have a big issue with human destruction and abuse of the planet but it's not solved by the current methods imo.
A deal (EU) is preferred but not essential. Imo The EU will fold (relative) to our straightforward and sensible demands understanding we're not going back and that a BREXIT vote has won from UKIP smashing the Euro in 2014 thru - 2016 Ref, 2017 GE, 2019 Euro - the message is pretty clear. WE KNOW WHAT WE VOTED FOR.
As I see it Farage means business this time, clearly has the backing of big hitters but more importantly the legitimacy by this result to drive the direction of travel - even if it's from the outside. He has the mandate.
The LIb/Lab/Con/EU Party know it..they are very worried we might just get our way...
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