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Post by wuzza on Mar 15, 2019 10:49:59 GMT
I think the news / realisation was that absolutely zero progress is being made with regard the side being any sort of consistent attacking force. Plonk any 11 individuals on the park and the odds are you get 1 or 2 chances in a game but there is absolutely no evidence of any sort of system being put in place that creates a steady supply of opportunities (wether they are taken or not is the next step in the process). Patience and tolerance are very much the order of the day and this manager is , rightly, getting it in spades but the punters are probably thinking they have a right to expect something a little more positive against some less than stellar opposition. The Forest game was a step forward though, surely? It wasn't great but we deservedly and fairly comfortably beat a team in the play off mix with two great goals. I just don't quite understand how two ground out away points has suddenly flipped the narrative back, given that in one we were down to 10 men for the majority of the game and in the other we went to one of the better teams in the league missing two-thirds of our first-choice midfield and our striker pulled up before half time? The funny thing is that if we'd spawned a totally undeserved 1-0 win on Wednesday with either that Ince shot when he got in behind them first half or McClean's header, it wouldn've been party time on here despite the fact that we were unambitious and below our best. I saw Forest as a few brief flurries of activity up front rising above the general impotence rather than any major indication of something coming together. In general our forward players just do not seem to interact in any way. The adverse reaction to the Derby performance (despite the adversities you rightly detail) is probably due to the fact the game was available to view on Sky rather than the more appropriate medium of teletext (to use an old cliche). I suppose people would rather be like Villa who seem to oscillate between gross incompetence and real attacking potency because at least you think sometimes you might be in for a treat. Let’s be honest there is little or no prospect that we could even take apart a poor team like Reading on Saturday - we simply don’t seem to have even the basics in place. |
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Mar 15, 2019 10:56:45 GMT
The Forest game was a step forward though, surely? It wasn't great but we deservedly and fairly comfortably beat a team in the play off mix with two great goals. I just don't quite understand how two ground out away points has suddenly flipped the narrative back, given that in one we were down to 10 men for the majority of the game and in the other we went to one of the better teams in the league missing two-thirds of our first-choice midfield and our striker pulled up before half time? The funny thing is that if we'd spawned a totally undeserved 1-0 win on Wednesday with either that Ince shot when he got in behind them first half or McClean's header, it wouldn've been party time on here despite the fact that we were unambitious and below our best. I saw Forest as a few brief flurries of activity up front rising above the general impotence rather than any major indication of something coming together. In general our forward players just do not seem to interact in any way. The adverse reaction to the Derby performance (despite the adversities you rightly detail) is probably due to the fact the game was available to view on Sky rather than the more appropriate medium of teletext (to use an old cliche). I suppose people would rather be like Villa who seem to oscillate between gross incompetence and real attacking potency because at least you think sometimes you might be in for a treat. Let’s be honest there is little or no prospect that we could even take apart a poor team like Reading on Saturday - we simply don’t seem to have even the basics in place. I think the prospect of taking anyone apart is off the table because the previous manager built a squad without many/any of the tools to do so. This is a moribund squad with very little in the way of pace or creativity and a surplus of dogged scrappers. Hence Charlie still being so important in 2019. For all that, I thought there were spells of fluidity against Forest with the front three dovetailing well at times, and the fluidity of the goal against Villa showed what we’re trying to build towards. It’s just going to take time, if it’s going to happen. |
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Post by werrington on Mar 15, 2019 11:02:17 GMT
Bauer hasn’t done anything to be worth a game. Again I’m not sure why a team that was struggling for shots on target anyway and has a creativity deficit was magically going to become an attacking force? It’s going to be a slow, painful process. You seemed pretty happy with the QPR result yet the Derby result, which wouldn’t have been a good one at the start of the season when optimism was high, seems to have sent people off the deep end. Yes the performance was disappointing but we still had two very good chances to win the game, defended well and had a number of first team players out, losing another one before half time. I’m a bit mystified by the reaction to it to be honest. Yes, we’re clueless in the final third. Breaking news. Like Bojan, Baeur is afforded absolutely no leeway despite having no football in the tank, whilst the likes of Clucas are seemingly the first name on teamsheet, despite offering the square root of fuck all. It's a difficult job no doubt but I would have expected a fair bit more from a so called advocate of fast, attacking, football than we've seen so far and some of his decisions have seen jaws hitting terracing all arund the stadium. There is no discernible pattern or progress or even a hint of direction of travel. I've seen about three decent teams in this division all season and we sit in 17th and deservedly in 17th. It's pretty pathetic all told. Despite what others might imply, I don't want him gone, that would be borderline idiotic at this stage but in a thead which mentions, Pulis and Hughes, for all their faults and for all the way it went tits up at the end of their spells, it quickly became apparent that neither Rowett or Lambert could hold a candle to them as managers. I just hope we haven't dropped on a third one. Don’t let the clucas sending off mask your judgment sheik lad...Up until that point he’d been one of our best performers in the 3 games previous I do agree in regards the same players getting picked whilst playing poorly though whilst Bojan gets 60 mins max then he’s out |
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Post by sheikhmomo on Mar 15, 2019 11:05:59 GMT
Like Bojan, Baeur is afforded absolutely no leeway despite having no football in the tank, whilst the likes of Clucas are seemingly the first name on teamsheet, despite offering the square root of fuck all. It's a difficult job no doubt but I would have expected a fair bit more from a so called advocate of fast, attacking, football than we've seen so far and some of his decisions have seen jaws hitting terracing all arund the stadium. There is no discernible pattern or progress or even a hint of direction of travel. I've seen about three decent teams in this division all season and we sit in 17th and deservedly in 17th. It's pretty pathetic all told. Despite what others might imply, I don't want him gone, that would be borderline idiotic at this stage but in a thead which mentions, Pulis and Hughes, for all their faults and for all the way it went tits up at the end of their spells, it quickly became apparent that neither Rowett or Lambert could hold a candle to them as managers. I just hope we haven't dropped on a third one. Don’t let the clucas sending off mask your judgment sheik lad...Up until that point he’d been one of our best performers in the 3 games previous I do agree in regards the same players getting picked whilst playing poorly though whilst Bojan gets 60 mins max then he’s out I can't have him mate but its all about opinions. He looks clumsy and limited to me. |
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Post by wuzza on Mar 15, 2019 11:14:36 GMT
I saw Forest as a few brief flurries of activity up front rising above the general impotence rather than any major indication of something coming together. In general our forward players just do not seem to interact in any way. The adverse reaction to the Derby performance (despite the adversities you rightly detail) is probably due to the fact the game was available to view on Sky rather than the more appropriate medium of teletext (to use an old cliche). I suppose people would rather be like Villa who seem to oscillate between gross incompetence and real attacking potency because at least you think sometimes you might be in for a treat. Let’s be honest there is little or no prospect that we could even take apart a poor team like Reading on Saturday - we simply don’t seem to have even the basics in place. I think the prospect of taking anyone apart is off the table because the previous manager built a squad without many/any of the tools to do so. This is a moribund squad with very little in the way of pace or creativity and a surplus of dogged scrappers. Hence Charlie still being so important in 2019. For all that, I thought there were spells of fluidity against Forest with the front three dovetailing well at times, and the fluidity of the goal against Villa showed what we’re trying to build towards. It’s just going to take time, if it’s going to happen. It’s been grim, it is grim , and the prospects of it being any less grim seem very distant when you watch games like Wednesday. Hence the mass frustration. Personally I find it hard to see what he is even trying to do up front - maybe others with more tactical nous may see something taking shape. As you say only time will tell. |
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Mar 15, 2019 11:35:39 GMT
I think the prospect of taking anyone apart is off the table because the previous manager built a squad without many/any of the tools to do so. This is a moribund squad with very little in the way of pace or creativity and a surplus of dogged scrappers. Hence Charlie still being so important in 2019. For all that, I thought there were spells of fluidity against Forest with the front three dovetailing well at times, and the fluidity of the goal against Villa showed what we’re trying to build towards. It’s just going to take time, if it’s going to happen. It’s been grim, it is grim , and the prospects of it being any less grim seem very distant when you watch games like Wednesday. Hence the mass frustration. Personally I find it hard to see what he is even trying to do up front - maybe others with more tactical nous may see something taking shape. As you say only time will tell. What does he have to work with up front though? We're in turd polishing territory aren't we? |
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Mar 15, 2019 11:51:35 GMT
Bauer hasn’t done anything to be worth a game. Again I’m not sure why a team that was struggling for shots on target anyway and has a creativity deficit was magically going to become an attacking force? It’s going to be a slow, painful process. You seemed pretty happy with the QPR result yet the Derby result, which wouldn’t have been a good one at the start of the season when optimism was high, seems to have sent people off the deep end. Yes the performance was disappointing but we still had two very good chances to win the game, defended well and had a number of first team players out, losing another one before half time. I’m a bit mystified by the reaction to it to be honest. Yes, we’re clueless in the final third. Breaking news. Like Bojan, Baeur is afforded absolutely no leeway despite having no football in the tank, whilst the likes of Clucas are seemingly the first name on teamsheet, despite offering the square root of fuck all. It's a difficult job no doubt but I would have expected a fair bit more from a so called advocate of fast, attacking, football than we've seen so far and some of his decisions have seen jaws hitting terracing all arund the stadium. There is no discernible pattern or progress or even a hint of direction of travel. I've seen about three decent teams in this division all season and we sit in 17th and deservedly in 17th. It's pretty pathetic all told. Despite what others might imply, I don't want him gone, that would be borderline idiotic at this stage but in a thead which mentions, Pulis and Hughes, for all their faults and for all the way it went tits up at the end of their spells, it quickly became apparent that neither Rowett or Lambert could hold a candle to them as managers. I just hope we haven't dropped on a third one. At what point do we give up on Bauer? I was sympathetic at first but he’s been woeful virtually every time he’s been picked under two managers now and it can’t all be down to a lack of games - that shouldn’t affect basic positioning or picking players up. He should be right up Jones’ street yet he too has very quickly decided he doesn’t fancy him, it doesn’t reflect brilliantly on the player. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2019 11:55:32 GMT
Like Bojan, Baeur is afforded absolutely no leeway despite having no football in the tank, whilst the likes of Clucas are seemingly the first name on teamsheet, despite offering the square root of fuck all. It's a difficult job no doubt but I would have expected a fair bit more from a so called advocate of fast, attacking, football than we've seen so far and some of his decisions have seen jaws hitting terracing all arund the stadium. There is no discernible pattern or progress or even a hint of direction of travel. I've seen about three decent teams in this division all season and we sit in 17th and deservedly in 17th. It's pretty pathetic all told. Despite what others might imply, I don't want him gone, that would be borderline idiotic at this stage but in a thead which mentions, Pulis and Hughes, for all their faults and for all the way it went tits up at the end of their spells, it quickly became apparent that neither Rowett or Lambert could hold a candle to them as managers. I just hope we haven't dropped on a third one. At what point do we give up on Bauer? I was sympathetic at first but he’s been woeful virtually every time he’s been picked under two managers now and it can’t all be down to a lack of games - that shouldn’t affect basic positioning or picking players up. He should be right up Jones’ street yet he too has very quickly decided he doesn’t fancy him, it doesn’t reflect brilliantly on the player. I'd say the moment the transfer window opens personally. We assumed it was Rowett being Rowett but as you say Jones hasn't exactly bust a gut to give him game time, when I watch him warm up on the bench he gives the impression (rightly or wrongly) of someone who'd rather be anywhere but here. If that's what people decipher from watching him train on a daily basis it's no surprise he is where he is...... |
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Post by sheikhmomo on Mar 15, 2019 11:56:33 GMT
Like Bojan, Baeur is afforded absolutely no leeway despite having no football in the tank, whilst the likes of Clucas are seemingly the first name on teamsheet, despite offering the square root of fuck all. It's a difficult job no doubt but I would have expected a fair bit more from a so called advocate of fast, attacking, football than we've seen so far and some of his decisions have seen jaws hitting terracing all arund the stadium. There is no discernible pattern or progress or even a hint of direction of travel. I've seen about three decent teams in this division all season and we sit in 17th and deservedly in 17th. It's pretty pathetic all told. Despite what others might imply, I don't want him gone, that would be borderline idiotic at this stage but in a thead which mentions, Pulis and Hughes, for all their faults and for all the way it went tits up at the end of their spells, it quickly became apparent that neither Rowett or Lambert could hold a candle to them as managers. I just hope we haven't dropped on a third one. At what point do we give up on Bauer? I was sympathetic at first but he’s been woeful virtually every time he’s been picked under two managers now and it can’t all be down to a lack of games - that shouldn’t affect basic positioning or picking players up. He should be right up Jones’ street yet he too has very quickly decided he doesn’t fancy him, it doesn’t reflect brilliantly on the player. Sticking with other players regardless of performance and ostracising others doesn't reflect too brilliantly on the manager either. |
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Post by juiceandbits on Mar 15, 2019 12:06:28 GMT
Like Bojan, Baeur is afforded absolutely no leeway despite having no football in the tank, whilst the likes of Clucas are seemingly the first name on teamsheet, despite offering the square root of fuck all. It's a difficult job no doubt but I would have expected a fair bit more from a so called advocate of fast, attacking, football than we've seen so far and some of his decisions have seen jaws hitting terracing all arund the stadium. There is no discernible pattern or progress or even a hint of direction of travel. I've seen about three decent teams in this division all season and we sit in 17th and deservedly in 17th. It's pretty pathetic all told. Despite what others might imply, I don't want him gone, that would be borderline idiotic at this stage but in a thead which mentions, Pulis and Hughes, for all their faults and for all the way it went tits up at the end of their spells, it quickly became apparent that neither Rowett or Lambert could hold a candle to them as managers. I just hope we haven't dropped on a third one. Don’t let the clucas sending off mask your judgment sheik lad...Up until that point he’d been one of our best performers in the 3 games previous I do agree in regards the same players getting picked whilst playing poorly though whilst Bojan gets 60 mins max then he’s out NJ saying he can't play players like Bojan, but then saying he's a big part of what he wants to do, because of his lack of fitness smells like a bit of bull to me. |
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Mar 15, 2019 12:35:11 GMT
At what point do we give up on Bauer? I was sympathetic at first but he’s been woeful virtually every time he’s been picked under two managers now and it can’t all be down to a lack of games - that shouldn’t affect basic positioning or picking players up. He should be right up Jones’ street yet he too has very quickly decided he doesn’t fancy him, it doesn’t reflect brilliantly on the player. Sticking with other players regardless of performance and ostracising others doesn't reflect too brilliantly on the manager either. It depends on the player doesn't it? If he's not doing anything to warrant selection on the pitch or the training ground, why should he be included? Should we get Saido back in, now we've got two strikers out? How far do we go? |
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Post by jezzascfc on Mar 15, 2019 12:55:07 GMT
I would be more worried if Jones did not realise how bad we are going forward. Look at his post-Derby interview: he does.
He has made us more solid and united, the players look like they give a damn again, but he cannot do much about anything else until the summer.
Let's get through to May and see what he does in the summer.
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Post by wuzza on Mar 15, 2019 13:03:42 GMT
It’s been grim, it is grim , and the prospects of it being any less grim seem very distant when you watch games like Wednesday. Hence the mass frustration. Personally I find it hard to see what he is even trying to do up front - maybe others with more tactical nous may see something taking shape. As you say only time will tell. What does he have to work with up front though? We're in turd polishing territory aren't we? I don’t know if it falls into the realms of ‘turd polishing’ but Afobe and Ince have records of scoring significant numbers of goals at this level. Even Berahino (don’t laugh) has scored goals at one time. Allen and Adam both can find the back of the net. Nothing we do seems to play to their strengths or even create a chance of them scoring. If we were giving them opportunities and they were blowing them I could almost understand but we don’t even get to that level ! |
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Mar 15, 2019 13:06:03 GMT
What does he have to work with up front though? We're in turd polishing territory aren't we? I don’t know if it falls into the realms of ‘turd polishing’ but Afobe and Ince have records of scoring significant numbers of goals at this level. Even Berahino (don’t laugh) has scored goals at one time. Allen and Adam both can find the back of the net. Nothing we do seems to play to their strengths or even create a chance of them scoring. If we were giving them opportunities and they were blowing them I could almost understand but we don’t even get to that level ! Afobe has been woeful though. There was a degree of sympathy with how Rowett was using him but he really hasn't done himself any favours. Does he have no responsibility for that? Even in his supposed best position as part of a two he's looked sluggish and uninterested. Berahino can't play for the club again, surely. Allen isn't a creative player, Charlie can't last an hour. |
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Post by wuzza on Mar 15, 2019 13:18:34 GMT
I don’t know if it falls into the realms of ‘turd polishing’ but Afobe and Ince have records of scoring significant numbers of goals at this level. Even Berahino (don’t laugh) has scored goals at one time. Allen and Adam both can find the back of the net. Nothing we do seems to play to their strengths or even create a chance of them scoring. If we were giving them opportunities and they were blowing them I could almost understand but we don’t even get to that level ! Afobe has been woeful though. There was a degree of sympathy with how Rowett was using him but he really hasn't done himself any favours. Does he have no responsibility for that? Even in his supposed best position as part of a two he's looked sluggish and uninterested. Berahino can't play for the club again, surely. Allen isn't a creative player, Charlie can't last an hour. Sure the players have a ton of responsibility but surely part of a new managers remit is to get better performances out of the staff and use them more effectively. Somebody must have been doing something at their previous clubs that made them thrive. Other than Adam none of them are of an age where their careers should be going into decline. Generally speaking our build up play is as turgid as it was with Rowett or it involves a rather aimless punt which is food and drink to Championship defences. Movement on or off the ball is almost non existent. I just thought some of these basics might have been addressed / improved. |
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Mar 15, 2019 13:30:56 GMT
Afobe has been woeful though. There was a degree of sympathy with how Rowett was using him but he really hasn't done himself any favours. Does he have no responsibility for that? Even in his supposed best position as part of a two he's looked sluggish and uninterested. Berahino can't play for the club again, surely. Allen isn't a creative player, Charlie can't last an hour. Sure the players have a ton of responsibility but surely part of a new managers remit is to get better performances out of the staff and use them more effectively. Somebody must have been doing something at their previous clubs that made them thrive. Other than Adam none of them are of an age where their careers should be going into decline. Generally speaking our build up play is as turgid as it was with Rowett or it involves a rather aimless punt which is food and drink to Championship defences. Movement on or off the ball is almost non existent. I just thought some of these basics might have been addressed / improved. You can't force anyone to do something though can you? You can work and work and work with them but if they don't listen or won't run what do you do? And for all that against Forest he got Allen and Afobe turning in their best performance of the season. Edwards is improving. Batth has improved us. Vokes offers the focal point he wanted. There are green shoots, they're just smaller than people for some reason thought they would be by this stage. |
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Post by mickmillslovechild on Mar 15, 2019 13:39:17 GMT
So we basically have an entire thread moaning about the fact that people aren't moaning enough.....
Only on The Oatcake!
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Post by wuzza on Mar 15, 2019 13:40:07 GMT
Sure the players have a ton of responsibility but surely part of a new managers remit is to get better performances out of the staff and use them more effectively. Somebody must have been doing something at their previous clubs that made them thrive. Other than Adam none of them are of an age where their careers should be going into decline. Generally speaking our build up play is as turgid as it was with Rowett or it involves a rather aimless punt which is food and drink to Championship defences. Movement on or off the ball is almost non existent. I just thought some of these basics might have been addressed / improved. You can't force anyone to do something though can you? You can work and work and work with them but if they don't listen or won't run what do you do? And for all that against Forest he got Allen and Afobe turning in their best performance of the season. Edwards is improving. Batth has improved us. Vokes offers the focal point he wanted. There are green shoots, they're just smaller than people for some reason thought they would be by this stage. Fair enough - like I say if I could just see hint of how he intends to get us scoring more I’d be happier but I guess we just bumble on till the summer and see what happens. Poor sod is going to be working 24/7 the amount of things he must have on his ‘to do list’. |
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Post by Laughing Gravy on Mar 15, 2019 13:45:35 GMT
So we basically have an entire thread moaning about the fact that people aren't moaning enough..... Only on The Oatcake! Especially when there were at least another dozen threads which had eventually developed into moaning about the same old thing. The same posters appeared on each thread posting almost identical moaning posts. Jones, Woods, Allen, Ince, McClean........blah, blah, blah. As you say, only on The Oatcake. |
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Post by Absolution on Mar 15, 2019 13:53:46 GMT
I would be more worried if Jones did not realise how bad we are going forward. Look at his post-Derby interview: he does. He has made us more solid and united, the players look like they give a damn again, but he cannot do much about anything else until the summer. Let's get through to May and see what he does in the summer. This could have been written about Lambert. We've spent a year in limbo. |
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Post by pottersrule on Mar 15, 2019 14:25:45 GMT
Not at all,he Inherited the spine of a competitive premiership team.He left us with? A 'competitive premiership team' that had won three of its last 19 games. If Hughes was just a chancer, why did he manage a higher league finish than the bloke who built said team? Inherited all but Pieters who i believe had been sourced before Pulis left.He bought in the ineffective Ireland and gambled on Arnie.During the January window he swapped Odemwinge for Jones.Hardly wholesale changes there. He was successful because he let a good set of professional players get on with it,with minimal interference.By all accounts he was busy golfing. Released from the shackles of Pulisball the players excelled in a more adventurous style.The Wilson comments,and the fitness issues that Lambert encountered sums up the Hughes tenure lazy,arrogant and negligent. |
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Mar 15, 2019 14:36:22 GMT
A 'competitive premiership team' that had won three of its last 19 games. If Hughes was just a chancer, why did he manage a higher league finish than the bloke who built said team? Inherited all but Pieters who i believe had been sourced before Pulis left.He bought in the ineffective Ireland and gambled on Arnie.During the January window he swapped Odemwinge for Jones.Hardly wholesale changes there. He was successful because he let a good set of professional players get on with it,with minimal interference.By all accounts he was busy golfing. Released from the shackles of Pulisball the players excelled in a more adventurous style.The Wilson comments,and the fitness issues that Lambert encountered sums up the Hughes tenure lazy,arrogant and negligent. Ireland was actually an important player for us that first season and made some sort of contribution for a fair while after that. That 'gamble' on Arnie sure was a pretty astute one, wasn't it? Ditto swapping Jones for Odemwingie. Credit to him too for realising a 'more adventurous style' was needed and getting players like Crouch, Shawcross, Cameron, Adam and Whelan playing the best football of their Stoke careers to realise that change. You also missed out the signings in the seasons after that that also helped deliver top half finishes. You've actually articulated a half-decent argument as to why he didn't 'get lucky'. Well put. |
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Mar 15, 2019 15:35:00 GMT
I think the prospect of taking anyone apart is off the table because the previous manager built a squad without many/any of the tools to do so. This is a moribund squad with very little in the way of pace or creativity and a surplus of dogged scrappers. Hence Charlie still being so important in 2019. For all that, I thought there were spells of fluidity against Forest with the front three dovetailing well at times, and the fluidity of the goal against Villa showed what we’re trying to build towards. It’s just going to take time, if it’s going to happen. It’s been grim, it is grim , and the prospects of it being any less grim seem very distant when you watch games like Wednesday. Hence the mass frustration. Personally I find it hard to see what he is even trying to do up front - maybe others with more tactical nous may see something taking shape. As you say only time will tell. The problem isn't upfront - it's in midfield. We don't have players fit, strong, energetic and quick enough to make the diamond work - which is where it went horribly wrong against Derby. Also Although BMI has covered the role ok we don't have a left back who can bomb forward and provide the missing width and although Edwards has that in his game he's still learning and gets caught out when he does venture forward - and again the midfield aren't quick or fit enough to cover. I'm not saying we don't need to strengthen upfront but if we don't sort out the midfield scoring will carry on being a problem. However the fact that Jones seems to have got the defence playing ok (which had to be his first priority) there's no reason he can't sort out the midfield over the summer. Once he's done that the goals will come. |
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Post by pottersrule on Mar 15, 2019 16:30:21 GMT
Inherited all but Pieters who i believe had been sourced before Pulis left.He bought in the ineffective Ireland and gambled on Arnie.During the January window he swapped Odemwinge for Jones.Hardly wholesale changes there. He was successful because he let a good set of professional players get on with it,with minimal interference.By all accounts he was busy golfing. Released from the shackles of Pulisball the players excelled in a more adventurous style.The Wilson comments,and the fitness issues that Lambert encountered sums up the Hughes tenure lazy,arrogant and negligent. Ireland was actually an important player for us that first season and made some sort of contribution for a fair while after that. That 'gamble' on Arnie sure was a pretty astute one, wasn't it? Ditto swapping Jones for Odemwingie. Credit to him too for realising a 'more adventurous style' was needed and getting players like Crouch, Shawcross, Cameron, Adam and Whelan playing the best football of their Stoke careers to realise that change. You also missed out the signings in the seasons after that that also helped deliver top half finishes. You've actually articulated a half-decent argument as to why he didn't 'get lucky'. Well put. Well i missed them out as we were discussing the team he inherited.The point is he achieved a top ten finish by letting the team get on with it with minimal input.For this he was paid handsomely. I consider that pretty damn lucky. As for crediting him for realising a more adventurous style was needed.Well that wasn't really hard to see was it? |
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Post by wearepremierleague on Mar 15, 2019 16:31:38 GMT
I struggle to actually think of ways we could be worse going forward.
Its hard. We are absolutely garbage
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Mar 15, 2019 16:42:32 GMT
Ireland was actually an important player for us that first season and made some sort of contribution for a fair while after that. That 'gamble' on Arnie sure was a pretty astute one, wasn't it? Ditto swapping Jones for Odemwingie. Credit to him too for realising a 'more adventurous style' was needed and getting players like Crouch, Shawcross, Cameron, Adam and Whelan playing the best football of their Stoke careers to realise that change. You also missed out the signings in the seasons after that that also helped deliver top half finishes. You've actually articulated a half-decent argument as to why he didn't 'get lucky'. Well put. Well i missed them out as we were discussing the team he inherited.The point is he achieved a top ten finish by letting the team get on with it with minimal input.For this he was paid handsomely. I consider that pretty damn lucky. As for crediting him for realising a more adventurous style was needed.Well that wasn't really hard to see was it? Minimal input apart from bringing about a style change from a fading and deeply ingrained style that had been in place for the previous 7 years, getting a better tune out of the players than the bloke who signed them and making a number of astute signings who made a significant contribution. Piece of piss this management lark isn't it? |
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Post by mattythestokie on Mar 15, 2019 16:43:03 GMT
I struggle to actually think of ways we could be worse going forward. Its hard. We are absolutely garbage Apart from that brief spell under Arnie-Bojan-Shaq, have we ever been good going forward? We’ve got by, sure, but we’ve never been ‘good’ going forward for a long time now. |
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Post by pottersrule on Mar 15, 2019 16:55:07 GMT
Well i missed them out as we were discussing the team he inherited.The point is he achieved a top ten finish by letting the team get on with it with minimal input.For this he was paid handsomely. I consider that pretty damn lucky. As for crediting him for realising a more adventurous style was needed.Well that wasn't really hard to see was it? Minimal input apart from bringing about a style change from a fading and deeply ingrained style that had been in place for the previous 7 years, getting a better tune out of the players than the bloke who signed them and making a number of astute signings who made a significant contribution. Piece of piss this management lark isn't it? If you say so.Mr Hughes seems to have struggled with it of late though. |
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Mar 15, 2019 16:58:43 GMT
Minimal input apart from bringing about a style change from a fading and deeply ingrained style that had been in place for the previous 7 years, getting a better tune out of the players than the bloke who signed them and making a number of astute signings who made a significant contribution. Piece of piss this management lark isn't it? If you say so.Mr Hughes seems to have struggled with it of late though. Yeah, he lost the plot spectacularly. Presumably he stopped having 'minimal input'? Or does that only work when things are going well? You can't blame a bloke for the bad and give him no credit for the good. That's stupid and unreasonable. |
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Post by pottersrule on Mar 15, 2019 17:30:49 GMT
If you say so.Mr Hughes seems to have struggled with it of late though. Yeah, he lost the plot spectacularly. Presumably he stopped having 'minimal input'? Or does that only work when things are going well? You can't blame a bloke for the bad and give him no credit for the good. That's stupid and unreasonable. Your right,but it's hard to recognise the good when you see what he left us with. |
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