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Post by cobhamstokey on Mar 3, 2019 11:18:44 GMT
He’s playing like he did when he first came into the side. Thankfully Hughes kept with him and after some adjustment we saw the player he was. He needs 5-6 starts if after that time he’s not getting better then we can draw a line under him.
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Post by nenepotter on Mar 3, 2019 11:26:38 GMT
He’s playing like he did when he first came into the side. Thankfully Hughes kept with him and after some adjustment we saw the player he was. He needs 5-6 starts if after that time he’s not getting better then we can draw a line under him. Couldn't agree with you more , and I've said it myself. In his first season it was about 10 games in before he really clicked and became undroppable up to the injury. I can remember being unimpressed when he first came here. If we are going to get him back to his best he needs game time, and that has always been the case with him.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Mar 3, 2019 11:26:45 GMT
Indeed. But in the hole. I've no idea what Jones was thinking by starting him on the left and it was clear within five minutes of the game starting, that Bojan and Clucas needed to swap positions.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2019 11:38:13 GMT
At the end of the game he walked past us in row 3 with one leg of his shorts rolled up, and it looked like he was holding his thigh or his groin. Anyone else think he might be carrying an injury? Yates certainly injured him in the first half, which was really the end of Boj's game, although he tried to soldier on.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2019 11:52:32 GMT
I don't want him to fail at all for the record as you're implying. "Thank you" It wasn't directed at you, just the general atmosphere by some in this thread. It's an easy statement for me to make, because I, obviously, don't expect Bojan to fail. I expect him to come good, play as well as can be expected for someone with his unfortunate history of not really playing much for a long, long time. The "answer" to all our problems? No, one man can't do that. Play as well as in his prime? Not very likely, but if we bring in players that understands his way of playing and play him to his strengths, we could witness a mini revival of sorts. If instead he is to play with players who are alien to his style (i.e. most of Rowett's signings), then it won't happen, but his mere presence inspired players like Etebo and Afobe yesterday (although even I am not going to suggest he had an invisible part in our second goal), so he could still play a significant part for us.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2019 11:57:26 GMT
I've no idea what Jones was thinking by starting him on the left Because our only player to vaguely resemble a left winger was not fully fit ? Now I don't know what Jones was thinking that he can only play Bojan when McClean is somewhat unavailable...
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Post by Paul Spencer on Mar 3, 2019 12:01:57 GMT
I've no idea what Jones was thinking by starting him on the left Because our only player to vaguely resemble a left winger was not fully fit ? Now I don't know what Jones was thinking that he can only play Bojan when McClean is somewhat unavailable... Clucas is far more suited to playing that position than Bojan is.
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Post by StaffordPotter on Mar 3, 2019 12:12:48 GMT
Booed when he got subbed off, then minutes later the same lot sing Nathan Jones red and white army. Some people really baffle me.
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Post by ParaPsych on Mar 3, 2019 12:17:06 GMT
Because our only player to vaguely resemble a left winger was not fully fit ? Now I don't know what Jones was thinking that he can only play Bojan when McClean is somewhat unavailable... Clucas is far more suited to playing that position than Bojan is. Clucas is also far more suited to playing to position he did yesterday than Bojan. There were significant defensive requirements Bojan would struggle with.
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Mar 3, 2019 12:19:05 GMT
I feel sorry for Bojan. He must start a game realising that if he makes a couple of errors he will be quickly replaced. Certain other players of less a quality can play dross for the whole of 90 minutes and the manager does nothing. It isn't about making mistakes its the fact he goes missing and we look like we're playing with 10 men. He doesn't impose himself on the game - in fact once a couple of softners go in (and the opposition know full well he doesn't fancy the physical side of the game) he goes into his shell. He looks like a schoolboy who has never adapted to playing a man's game - which is probably part of the reason for the bizarre "Aaaahhh" factor he seems to inspire.
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Post by Gary Hackett on Mar 3, 2019 12:40:34 GMT
He'll be gone at the end of the season.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2019 12:48:47 GMT
I've no idea what Jones was thinking by starting him on the left Because our only player to vaguely resemble a left winger was not fully fit ? Now I don't know what Jones was thinking that he can only play Bojan when McClean is somewhat unavailable... You said previously he's played many games on the wing for Barcelona
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Post by JurgenVandeurzen on Mar 3, 2019 12:51:55 GMT
One game, played out of position. Jesus fucking Christ, there are some absolute pipes on here aren't there? It’s quite amazing the amount of leeway the numerous other wankers in the squad get, but still if they run around like dicks but achieve absolutely nothing then that’s fine. Bojan is held against this impossible standard and is micro-analysed from his passing all the way to the material used in his shorts, and then every week we have a thread like this about him if he doesn’t perform like a prime Messi on LSD. Quite why there’s such a large portion standing in the shadows wanking waiting for him to have a sub-par game just so they can scream from the hilltops “See! He’s wank and I’m right look at me!” I don’t know, it’s quite sad really. You must be joking? Nobody says ANYTHING when Bojan misplaces a pass(as he did several times yesterday) if its Clucas, McClean etc - the fucking world ends. You can't have it both ways - whinging when he's not playing because he's brilliant - then whinging when he plays and doesn't contribute and people comment on it.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Mar 3, 2019 13:04:02 GMT
Clucas is far more suited to playing that position than Bojan is. Clucas is also far more suited to playing to position he did yesterday than Bojan. There were significant defensive requirements Bojan would struggle with. That's a different argument though. Clucas had certainly been instructed to be the most advanced of the three, which is getting pretty close to Bojan's (only) position. There is absolutely zero point in playing Bojan on the left flank. Clucas has played there numerous times in his career and has already played well there for us under Jones. Even if you didn't play Bojan at all yesterday, with somebody else as the third midfielder, Clucas would still have been a better fit than him on the left.
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Post by Seymour Beaver on Mar 3, 2019 13:07:16 GMT
And why exactly would he look a complete twat? Less than 10 games in to his Stoke career Jones would be hailed as a master of man management if he coaxed a stormer out of Bojan. Rather like Solsjaer with Pogba. Jones has got everything to gain and nothing to lose by Bojan playing well. However he clearly doesn't think he can. This narrative that every manager he plays for has got it in for Bojan is frankly paranoid. Because playing him in his preferred position following the recent press stories and his previous lack of opportunities, it would be seen as bowing to supporter pressure, not a tactical master stroke. I agree, it’s a bit of a no-win situation for Jones, created by Rowett but not helped by Jones’ comments saying one thing and subsequent actions suggesting otherwise. Following your logic then perhaps the supporters should shut up for a bit and give him a chance to manage rather than compromising him and creating a situation thats not to their liking.
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Post by stiggerstackle on Mar 3, 2019 13:17:33 GMT
Because playing him in his preferred position following the recent press stories and his previous lack of opportunities, it would be seen as bowing to supporter pressure, not a tactical master stroke. I agree, it’s a bit of a no-win situation for Jones, created by Rowett but not helped by Jones’ comments saying one thing and subsequent actions suggesting otherwise. Following your logic then perhaps the supporters should shut up for a bit and give him a chance to manage rather than compromising him and creating a situation thats not to their liking. We both know that’s not going to happen anytime soon. People spend thousands following Stoke - are they not allowed a voice? Expected to keep putting their hands in their pockets and be passive observers like good little boys and girls? It isn’t the supporters that went to the sentinel talking up a player to then not pick him. It isn’t the supporters making promises they appear to have no intention of keeping. It isn’t the supporters playing with players careers. Or is it just the supporters who don’t share your opinion that should shut up?
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Post by ParaPsych on Mar 3, 2019 13:24:25 GMT
Clucas is also far more suited to playing to position he did yesterday than Bojan. There were significant defensive requirements Bojan would struggle with. That's a different argument though. And I'm not sure I even agree with you. Clucas had certainly been instructed to be the most advanced of the three, which is getting pretty close to Bojan's (only) position. There is absolutely zero point in playing Bojan on the left flank. Clucas has played there numerous times in his career and has already played well there for us under Jones. Even if you didn't play Bojan at all yesterday, Clucas would still have been a better fit for that position. I don't agree that Clucas was clearly instructed that. I don't know where to find heat maps to prove that point, but if you watch the extended highlights on Youtube I think it shows when Forest have the ball. He's doing quite a lot of sitting back and filling in spaces. My guess would be he covered an awful lot of ground. I certainly agree Clucas would be a better fit for wide left tham Boja , but I guess my point is that the midfield 3 worked well together and it was a large contributing factor to winning the game. If we'd have moved him wide left we would have had to go with a different approach which may or may not have worked. Sometimes you just have to make sacrifices and play someone in a position that may not fully work for that individual, but may work for the team overall. I think Jones got it right.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2019 13:43:11 GMT
It’s quite amazing the amount of leeway the numerous other wankers in the squad get, but still if they run around like dicks but achieve absolutely nothing then that’s fine. Bojan is held against this impossible standard and is micro-analysed from his passing all the way to the material used in his shorts, and then every week we have a thread like this about him if he doesn’t perform like a prime Messi on LSD. Quite why there’s such a large portion standing in the shadows wanking waiting for him to have a sub-par game just so they can scream from the hilltops “See! He’s wank and I’m right look at me!” I don’t know, it’s quite sad really. You must be joking? Nobody says ANYTHING when Bojan misplaces a pass(as he did several times yesterday) if its Clucas, McClean etc - the fucking world ends. You can't have it both ways - whinging when he's not playing because he's brilliant - then whinging when he plays and doesn't contribute and people comment on it. I don't think anyone is whining at people who are just commenting on it, it's obvious that wasn't his best game. The issue is that people are now pretending it's somehow a 'win' for them because they don't think he's any good. I'm absolutely fine with people stating that he wasn't great yesterday because he wasn't, but there are a few people are saying 'that's it now, he's proven he's finished, sack him off' which is absolute bollocks. That's where the problem lies.
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Post by 58Potter on Mar 3, 2019 13:47:19 GMT
Offered absolutely nothing again. For the idiots who booed the substitution, you know nothing about football! It was clear to see Bojan offered nothing, McClean is no Ronaldo but you know what you are going to get. Funny how as soon as the substitution was made we played a lot better. The sooner he leaves the better. Will stop all the fans pining for him to play when he offers so little. What part of ‘to get properly match fit you have to play matches’ do you not understand 🙄
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Post by Paul Spencer on Mar 3, 2019 13:47:24 GMT
That's a different argument though. And I'm not sure I even agree with you. Clucas had certainly been instructed to be the most advanced of the three, which is getting pretty close to Bojan's (only) position. There is absolutely zero point in playing Bojan on the left flank. Clucas has played there numerous times in his career and has already played well there for us under Jones. Even if you didn't play Bojan at all yesterday, Clucas would still have been a better fit for that position. I don't agree that Clucas was clearly instructed that. I don't know where to find heat maps to prove that point, but if you watch the extended highlights on Youtube I think it shows when Forest have the ball. He's doing quite a lot of sitting back and filling in spaces. My guess would be he covered an awful lot of ground. I certainly agree Clucas would be a better fit for wide left tham Boja , but I guess my point is that the midfield 3 worked well together and it was a large contributing factor to winning the game. If we'd have moved him wide left we would have had to go with a different approach which may or may not have worked. Sometimes you just have to make sacrifices and play someone in a position that may not fully work for that individual, but may work for the team overall. I think Jones got it right. As I said, it's two separate discussions. If he wanted to play Clucas in the middle, fine but that doesn't then mean you HAVE to play Bojan on the left as a result. Ince on the left and Diouf on the right is a better option for starters. Imo you play Bojan as a number 10 or you don't play him at all, it's never worked when he's been tried on the flank.
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Post by gogogadget on Mar 3, 2019 13:48:07 GMT
He’s playing like he did when he first came into the side. Thankfully Hughes kept with him and after some adjustment we saw the player he was. He needs 5-6 starts if after that time he’s not getting better then we can draw a line under him. Couldn't agree with you more , and I've said it myself. In his first season it was about 10 games in before he really clicked and became undroppable up to the injury. I can remember being unimpressed when he first came here. If we are going to get him back to his best he needs game time, and that has always been the case with him. I also think other players need to get used to playing with him. Watching yesterday I was thinking Bojan, make a run out wide into space, then someone will play you in, but he didn't make the run. This happened a few times and thought he was being lazy. But I think he is always looking to receive the ball in tight spaces. He is a quality player that has confidence in his ability. But I don't think some of our players are used to playing balls to players in tight spaces when players are closely marked. He is not a winger, he is a classy midfielder/10. The sooner players play to his strengths, the sooner you will see him getting back to the player we know he is
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Post by santy on Mar 3, 2019 13:48:51 GMT
That's exactly it, people saying he deserves a run out but managers are privy to info that makes these decisions, he doesn't get on much for a reason. Is that like the managers reasons that kept Kevin De Bruyne and Mo Salah out of the Chelsea team? Because there's no possible way that they could have ever worked out right?
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Post by ParaPsych on Mar 3, 2019 13:53:07 GMT
I don't agree that Clucas was clearly instructed that. I don't know where to find heat maps to prove that point, but if you watch the extended highlights on Youtube I think it shows when Forest have the ball. He's doing quite a lot of sitting back and filling in spaces. My guess would be he covered an awful lot of ground. I certainly agree Clucas would be a better fit for wide left tham Boja , but I guess my point is that the midfield 3 worked well together and it was a large contributing factor to winning the game. If we'd have moved him wide left we would have had to go with a different approach which may or may not have worked. Sometimes you just have to make sacrifices and play someone in a position that may not fully work for that individual, but may work for the team overall. I think Jones got it right. As I said, it's two separate discussions. If he wanted to play Clucas in the middle, fine but that doesn't then mean you HAVE to play Bojan on the left as a result. Ince on the left and Diouf on the right is a better option for starters. Imo you play Bojan as a number 10 or you don't play him at all, it's never worked when he's been tried on the flank. Yeah but after last week I can see why he didn't go with Diouf. Is there a reason Macclean didn't start? Yes playing Bojan most likely means playing with a system built for him and it then becomes a question of whether that's actually worthwhile. Although I think he can also play as a striker if alongside a big lad. I've always felt his creative abilities are somewhat overrated. For me his best skill by a mile is as a finisher in the box.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2019 13:56:25 GMT
Couldn't agree with you more , and I've said it myself. In his first season it was about 10 games in before he really clicked and became undroppable up to the injury. I can remember being unimpressed when he first came here. If we are going to get him back to his best he needs game time, and that has always been the case with him. I also think other players need to get used to playing with him. Watching yesterday I was thinking Bojan, make a run out wide into space, then someone will play you in, but he didn't make the run. This happened a few times and thought he was being lazy. But I think he is always looking to receive the ball in tight spaces. He is a quality player that has confidence in his ability. But I don't think some of our players are used to playing balls to players in tight spaces when players are closely marked. He is not a winger, he is a classy midfielder/10. The sooner players play to his strengths, the sooner you will see him getting back to the player we know he is This. It’s getting used to playing together. He will learn how they make the runs and they will learn how he plays. For someone who has barely played this season in a midfield of players he’s never really played with and a striker in front of him he’s never really played with he didn’t look out of place. We had a very solid midfield performance which he was part in a match where we kept the ball a lot more and got the ball forward a lot more which he was part of. Bizarre that people are now wanting to write him off. I thought the fact that we managed to get both him and Ince in the team and didn’t look weak in midfield as a result was very promising.
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Post by Seymour Beaver on Mar 3, 2019 13:57:05 GMT
Following your logic then perhaps the supporters should shut up for a bit and give him a chance to manage rather than compromising him and creating a situation thats not to their liking. We both know that’s not going to happen anytime soon. People spend thousands following Stoke - are they not allowed a voice? Expected to keep putting their hands in their pockets and be passive observers like good little boys and girls? It isn’t the supporters that went to the sentinel talking up a player to then not pick him. It isn’t the supporters making promises they appear to have no intention of keeping. It isn’t the supporters playing with players careers. Or is it just the supporters who don’t share your opinion that should shut up? Not at all. However some supporters have been bleating for the best part of three years that their poor little Bojan has been terribly mistreated by the club - to no effect. It's clearly not delivering the desired outcome so if they are that bothered about it then it's perhaps time to either change tack or move on.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2019 14:12:47 GMT
With regards to Bojan's position, what were the instructions?
Was he supposed to be wide left and stay wide left or was he supposed to play inside off the left (big difference between the two)? A couple of times in the first half both he and Ince were quite central, almost forming what looked like Terry Venables old Christmas tree circa Euro 96.
When Tom Ince had his purple patch during the latter part of the second half he was almost always just off the forward.
During Jones' Radio Stoke interview, when Johnson asked him about Ince, he made a comment that he thought Ince played well "when he started listening", which marrying the two got me thinking.
Were the wide men supposed to tuck in more than they did? Is that why Bojan was hooked, and would Ince have followed him soon after had he not "started to listen" ?
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Mar 3, 2019 14:15:32 GMT
With regards to Bojan's position, what were the instructions? Was he supposed to be wide left and stay wide left or was he supposed to play inside off the left (big difference between the two)? A couple of times in the first half both he and Ince were quite central, almost forming what looked like Terry Venables old Christmas tree circa Euro 96. When Tom Ince had his purple patch during the latter part of the second half he was almost always just off the forward. During Jones' Radio Stoke interview, when Johnson asked him about Ince, he made a comment that he thought Ince played well "when he started listening", which marrying the two got me thinking. Were the wide men supposed to tuck in more than they did? Is that why Bojan was hooked, and would Ince have followed him soon after had he not "started to listen" ? I could see that being Ince’s instruction as Edwards can bomb on, but surely we weren’t expecting Bruno (who had a very solid game defensively) to offer much in terms of width?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2019 14:16:02 GMT
With regards to Bojan's position, what were the instructions? Was he supposed to be wide left and stay wide left or was he supposed to play inside off the left (big difference between the two)? A couple of times in the first half both he and Ince were quite central, almost forming what looked like Terry Venables old Christmas tree circa Euro 96. When Tom Ince had his purple patch during the latter part of the second half he was almost always just off the forward. During Jones' Radio Stoke interview, when Johnson asked him about Ince, he made a comment that he thought Ince played well "when he started listening", which marrying the two got me thinking. Were the wide men supposed to tuck in more than they did? Is that why Bojan was hooked, and would Ince have followed him soon after had he not "started to listen" ? I think he was probably hooked because he isn’t match fit but I imagine with the front three we played they’d ideally be playing in a more rotating, more tucked in front three, I guess a bit Liverpool style.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2019 14:20:27 GMT
With regards to Bojan's position, what were the instructions? Was he supposed to be wide left and stay wide left or was he supposed to play inside off the left (big difference between the two)? A couple of times in the first half both he and Ince were quite central, almost forming what looked like Terry Venables old Christmas tree circa Euro 96. When Tom Ince had his purple patch during the latter part of the second half he was almost always just off the forward. During Jones' Radio Stoke interview, when Johnson asked him about Ince, he made a comment that he thought Ince played well "when he started listening", which marrying the two got me thinking. Were the wide men supposed to tuck in more than they did? Is that why Bojan was hooked, and would Ince have followed him soon after had he not "started to listen" ? I could see that being Ince’s instruction as Edwards can bomb on, but surely we weren’t expecting Bruno (who had a very solid game defensively) to offer much in terms of width? I don't know to be honest, which is why I'm thinking out loud. One thing I did notice, particularly mid way through the first half onwards, was how many times we seemed to ignore that flank completely in the build up, often switching to Bojan when the ball was higher up the pitch.
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Post by nott1 on Mar 3, 2019 14:23:24 GMT
Indeed. But in the hole. I've no idea what Jones was thinking by starting him on the left and it was clear within five minutes of the game starting, that Bojan and Clucas needed to swap positions. Anyway, why change a winning team, he's a lucky charm.
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