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Post by Gods on Feb 17, 2019 10:47:34 GMT
No one is asking for 'miracles overnight'. But with the introduction of a new manager and an additional £16m of 'talent' in the January window most folks didn't expect things to get worse. As for the question in the OP I would say a 'No, not a hope', he looks and sounds completely crackers to me! There was every chance things were going to get worse even if it means long term they get better though? Two new signings and a new manager parachuted in mid season aren’t going to be an instant cure are they? We have the existing cowards topped up with another £40m worth of cowards, it’s hardly a lick of paint job. We had two choices. A quick fix pragmatic type to tighten things up but do not much else, or a ‘project’ that could be a disaster or could over time turn us into the kind of forward thinking, stylish outfit that bypassed us during our own time in the Premier League. I personally am pleased that we’ve rolled the dice on the latter for once. Who knows how it’ll turn out? This is still chapter one. Who knows indeed, the OP was inviting us to speculate! Nathan could be the next Juergen Klopp, but the thought eating away in the back of my mind which I am unable to shift is that he more likely the next Ian 'Ollie' Holloway
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stokierich
Academy Starlet
"The Golden One"
Posts: 209
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Post by stokierich on Feb 17, 2019 11:00:32 GMT
Early days but very worrying early signs, he reminds me a lot like Cotterill who also had great record in the lower leagues.
Massive gamble by the board.
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Post by wrighter on Feb 17, 2019 11:28:38 GMT
Yes.
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Post by SneydGreenStokie on Feb 17, 2019 12:14:45 GMT
Its nor necessarily optimism. Its realism. We cannot keep sacking managers who dont turn us around instantly. Id take long term progress, building an identity and way of playing again over short term fix with no substance to it any day of the week. SGS You might be right, but I still feel we should do better with the players already here. If there are any positives we have stopped leaking goals for fun, but we also seem to make the same mistakes over and over again. Why do we constantly switch off at crucial moments? Yesterday we gave away a needless corner at the end because Afobe (I think it was him) was more interested in calling for a free-kick than working hard for the ball, and then we had to give away the corner where we knew there was hardly more than a minute left of the game. We then allow them a free header at the back post to make it even worse! Things like this happen again and again, and it certainly can't be coincidental any longer, but why!!?? I hear you. However, we have gone from losing 3 on the bounce, to drawing 2 away - we should have won one - to now facing 2 home games. If we can win both or win one draw one, that is progress. Given he is trying to change so much and we have a habit of losing or drawing, he's slowly getting there. I can see the shoots of progress but will not judge him until this time next season when he move the shit on and get his own in. I hope the fans give him that. SGS
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2019 12:18:41 GMT
Worrying start but I honestly don't think it's fair to have a go for things being worse. It's carried on the downward trajectory from Rowett and we have shown signs of improvement.
Klopp, Guardiola, and several other managers have had crap starts, sometimes a season of rubbish, and then completely changed their respective clubs around.
He simply HAS to be given at the very least 18 months.
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Post by loosestools on Feb 17, 2019 12:31:35 GMT
The trouble is that signings of all of these poor players has been sanctioned by the Board. If you come in and immediately demand that they should be potted, then you are criticizing and possibly undermining Scholes, Cartwright and others. That is not going to go down well at all is it, so he has to stick with what he has got. With all of this experimentation with players and formations I wonder how much homework he had done before the interview.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Feb 17, 2019 12:55:01 GMT
There was every chance things were going to get worse even if it means long term they get better though? Two new signings and a new manager parachuted in mid season aren’t going to be an instant cure are they? We have the existing cowards topped up with another £40m worth of cowards, it’s hardly a lick of paint job. We had two choices. A quick fix pragmatic type to tighten things up but do not much else, or a ‘project’ that could be a disaster or could over time turn us into the kind of forward thinking, stylish outfit that bypassed us during our own time in the Premier League. I personally am pleased that we’ve rolled the dice on the latter for once. Who knows how it’ll turn out? This is still chapter one. Who knows indeed, the OP was inviting us to speculate! Nathan could be the next Juergen Klopp, but the thought eating away in the back of my mind which I am unable to shift is that he more likely the next Ian 'Ollie' Holloway Who for all his faults and irritations has still got teams promoted to the Premier League more than once.
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Post by sufolkstokie on Feb 17, 2019 12:57:09 GMT
He is not going to make it unless more fundamental things change at our club and sadly there is zero signs that they will happen
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Post by Gods on Feb 17, 2019 13:29:30 GMT
Who knows indeed, the OP was inviting us to speculate! Nathan could be the next Juergen Klopp, but the thought eating away in the back of my mind which I am unable to shift is that he more likely the next Ian 'Ollie' Holloway Who for all his faults and irritations has still got teams promoted to the Premier League more than once. Took Palace up didn't he, although fired 8 games in to the following season, We'd take that right now. Not sure why he is treated as such a figure of fun by Palace fans on that basis. I do see Nathan as something of a young, Welsh 'Ollie'. Several parallels...heart on his sleeve, passion and mad as a hare in March. Perhaps we are on to something here!
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Post by nott1 on Feb 17, 2019 14:30:59 GMT
Wait and see We have and we already know the answer to Rowett mark two.
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Post by Absolution on Feb 17, 2019 14:33:37 GMT
Wait and see We have and we already know the answer to Rowett mark two. We haven't and we don't.
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Post by nott1 on Feb 17, 2019 14:35:03 GMT
We have and we already know the answer to Rowett mark two. We haven't and we don't. I'll remember your words and quote you at a later stage!
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Feb 17, 2019 14:38:17 GMT
Who for all his faults and irritations has still got teams promoted to the Premier League more than once. Took Palace up didn't he, although fired 8 games in to the following season, We'd take that right now. Not sure why he is treated as such a figure of fun by Palace fans on that basis. I do see Nathan as something of a young, Welsh 'Ollie'. Several parallels...heart on his sleeve, passion and mad as a hare in March. Perhaps we are on to something here! He also took a Blackpool team up who’d been tipped for relegation from the Championship. His persona is that of the irksome jester but for a while he was a decent manager at this level. From what we’ve been told about Jones he’s much more serious and a student of the game than that. We have no option but to hope that reputation is justified and continues to blossom.
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Post by Absolution on Feb 17, 2019 14:40:52 GMT
I'll remember your words and quote you at a later stage! You mean at a reasonable point in the future when we've actually given him a genuine chance? I can go with that.
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Post by nott1 on Feb 17, 2019 14:42:57 GMT
I'll remember your words and quote you at a later stage! You mean at a reasonable point in the future when we've actually given him a genuine chance? I can go with that. haha many more of these results and Moyes will be on the horizon once more.
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Post by Absolution on Feb 17, 2019 14:48:35 GMT
You mean at a reasonable point in the future when we've actually given him a genuine chance? I can go with that. haha many more of these results and Moyes will be on the horizon once more. I'm pleased he's still waiting for us rather than just taking a top Premier League job.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2019 14:50:15 GMT
Wait and see We have and we already know the answer to Rowett mark two. Not in terms of playing style but, and I hate to say this, in terms of who he really is, he’s looking worse today. I thought GR was deluded and an absolute twat but I don’t think he ever lied about anything. I’m still fuming so perhaps will calm down (and I totally get that Luton fans would of course say this in the situation) but you start thinking about the “don’t believe”, “don’t trust him” comments today. He seemed liked an honest, decent bloke and now appears to have lied to the fans within 2 weeks of the job. Just bloody great NJ. Nice one.
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Post by nott1 on Feb 17, 2019 14:52:09 GMT
haha many more of these results and Moyes will be on the horizon once more. I'm pleased he's still waiting for us rather than just taking a top Premier League job. He'll only have to wait until May at the outside.
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Post by Absolution on Feb 17, 2019 14:55:16 GMT
I'm pleased he's still waiting for us rather than just taking a top Premier League job. He'll only have to wait until May at the outside. I'll remember your words and quote you at a later stage! 😊
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Post by kjpt140v on Feb 17, 2019 17:08:16 GMT
Yes I do. Alternative is 5 managers is 15 months with three of them claiming they weren’t given enough time. This guy is the only one that has revealed how he is going to take Stoke back to the top, he is brave to do this because we know the plan and if we are not getting results by Christmas or before we will know he’s failed. He needs the right players and, as he says, these players must be Stoke through and through. Some of the players we have today are not Stoke through and through.
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Post by GreaterGlasgowstokie on Feb 17, 2019 17:15:17 GMT
Yes I do. Alternative is 5 managers is 15 months with three of them claiming they weren’t given enough time. This guy is the only one that has revealed how he is going to take Stoke back to the top, he is brave to do this because we know the plan and if we are not getting results by Christmas or before we will know he’s failed. He needs the right players and, as he says, these players must be Stoke through and through. Some of the players we have today are not Stoke through and through. Yes I agree, I think he's bought himself time with most of us by being clear about his plans and the way he wants us to play. He's the first manager since pulis to set out how he wants us to play. He's having to make do with a load of shit that rowett signed but I think he will be backed in the summer and there will be big changes. I think allen, shawcross, afobe, ince, woods, adam, bojan, diouf, berahino pieters will all be gone in the summer
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Post by Alvechurch Assassin on Feb 17, 2019 17:32:43 GMT
Do we have the patience? Both the supporters and the board? I can see him needing 2 full seasons before we are ready to even look like promotion candidates.
The money we have spent seemed initially like an advantage but it has only presented us with players lacking the hunger to compete at this level. Our prolonged stay in the PL has also been a disadvantage as it appears we had no idea what type of player we needed. The baggies have been a yo yo team and therefore it was them that had the head start on us. Villa have had the same troubles, having been at the top table for so long.
There are so many contracts that we need to see out, as there is little hope of any adequate offers coming in, that the opportunity to overhaul the squad will be extremely difficult.
With an enormous amount of hindsight, it was essential that we stayed up last season and the real error, once the board woke up to the potential of relegation, was the Lambert hire and an appalling January window.
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Post by FrankButcher on Feb 17, 2019 19:37:34 GMT
Who for all his faults and irritations has still got teams promoted to the Premier League more than once. Took Palace up didn't he, although fired 8 games in to the following season, We'd take that right now. Not sure why he is treated as such a figure of fun by Palace fans on that basis. I do see Nathan as something of a young, Welsh 'Ollie'. Several parallels...heart on his sleeve, passion and mad as a hare in March. Perhaps we are on to something here! he wasn't fired, he resigned as he was exhausted and a defeated man he held a lengthy meeting with Steve Parish and was told to sleep on his decision but his mind was made up then stepped in the capped one and he turned it around incredibly.
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Post by jimigoodwinsbeard on Feb 17, 2019 19:41:31 GMT
We have and we already know the answer to Rowett mark two. Not in terms of playing style but, and I hate to say this, in terms of who he really is, he’s looking worse today. I thought GR was deluded and an absolute twat but I don’t think he ever lied about anything. I’m still fuming so perhaps will calm down (and I totally get that Luton fans would of course say this in the situation) but you start thinking about the “don’t believe”, “don’t trust him” comments today. He seemed liked an honest, decent bloke and now appears to have lied to the fans within 2 weeks of the job. Just bloody great NJ. Nice one. Lied about what?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2019 19:51:14 GMT
Not in terms of playing style but, and I hate to say this, in terms of who he really is, he’s looking worse today. I thought GR was deluded and an absolute twat but I don’t think he ever lied about anything. I’m still fuming so perhaps will calm down (and I totally get that Luton fans would of course say this in the situation) but you start thinking about the “don’t believe”, “don’t trust him” comments today. He seemed liked an honest, decent bloke and now appears to have lied to the fans within 2 weeks of the job. Just bloody great NJ. Nice one. Lied about what? Bojan. Now Bojan hasn’t named names in that article but Jones has said himself that he’s an important player for us and wants him to play. And also in that article it says he hasn’t been offered an explanation why since they stopped him leaving on that basis. So it doesn’t look very good for him doesn’t. Even though I think we can all guess who was behind this absolute farce.
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Feb 17, 2019 19:55:15 GMT
back to the promised land? Will he really be able to get better players in who will improve this squad or first 11? I must admit I'm not a believer any more, but I really hope I'm wrong. Our approach to games is so negative, and today after scoring that fortunate goal we showed no desire to go for a second one. In the end we probably got the punishment we deserved for such an attitude. As my son and I said, we won't meet many teams worse than Ipswich. They were truely awful, but again we managed to throw away two points. It's really starting to get a bit comical to be honest. Nobody on planet earth will get us back to the premiership with the current ceo and technical director. The sooner we all accept this the sooner we sort our problems out. Even if you don't accept this point of view what harm is there in trying a new ceo and technical director? changing managers and players sure as hell isn't working. That has become very bloody obvious.
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Post by spikey2972 on Feb 17, 2019 20:00:01 GMT
Said it before and will say it again.....Pep couldn't get a tune out of these fuckers. None of them are hungry enough for the fight at this level. Well, most of them anyway.
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Post by spikey2972 on Feb 17, 2019 20:05:13 GMT
Sorry I think Jones is out of his depth .He is obviously not getting his points and tactics across to the players.and as for his backroom staff ,they seem as bad.you keep thinking the next game is going to be different but no,the same mistakes.
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Post by benjaminbiscuit on Feb 17, 2019 20:11:19 GMT
Do we have the patience? Both the supporters and the board? I can see him needing 2 full seasons before we are ready to even look like promotion candidates. The money we have spent seemed initially like an advantage but it has only presented us with players lacking the hunger to compete at this level. Our prolonged stay in the PL has also been a disadvantage as it appears we had no idea what type of player we needed. The baggies have been a yo yo team and therefore it was them that had the head start on us. Villa have had the same troubles, having been at the top table for so long. There are so many contracts that we need to see out, as there is little hope of any adequate offers coming in, that the opportunity to overhaul the squad will be extremely difficult. With an enormous amount of hindsight, it was essential that we stayed up last season and the real error, once the board woke up to the potential of relegation, was the Lambert hire and an appalling January window. The only issue is people were calling that the previous autumn , to be greeted with a silent CEO and what’s all the fuss about from the owner .
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Feb 17, 2019 20:11:43 GMT
Sorry I think Jones is out of his depth .He is obviously not getting his points and tactics across to the players.and as for his backroom staff ,they seem as bad.you keep thinking the next game is going to be different but no,the same mistakes. So lets get another manager and then another one and then another. At what bloody point do we look up the food chain? stop blaming the managers because by the law of averages they ain't all incompetent. They have proved this elsewhere. The madness is spreading.
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