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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2019 3:24:55 GMT
back to the promised land? Will he really be able to get better players in who will improve this squad or first 11? I must admit I'm not a believer any more, but I really hope I'm wrong. Our approach to games is so negative, and today after scoring that fortunate goal we showed no desire to go for a second one. In the end we probably got the punishment we deserved for such an attitude. As my son and I said, we won't meet many teams worse than Ipswich. They were truely awful, but again we managed to throw away two points. It's really starting to get a bit comical to be honest. Jones will take us further down the road to oblivion, more commonly known as League 1. If not this season, although it could still happen, then next. Because he has absolutely no clue what he is doing. He's just dancing in the dark. Which right minded player will want to join the Stoke circus where everyone gets worse? Only those who are in it for the money will. I agree completely with your analysis. I am somewhat disgusted that we even got a point, because we did not deserve it. In the end we shall be happy, though, because we'll need every point to stay up.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2019 3:35:56 GMT
Unfortunately everybody expects everything in this world to be done immediately and patience is a word few understand. He inherited a shit sandwich so give him time whether it be next season or the season after to build a side that can not only get promotion but can stay there. How long has it taken Norwich, Leeds, Sheffield Utd, Forest, Derby etc.... It's his actions now we have a right to judge him upon. Today he got every one of his substitutions wrong. He also got his selection and tactics wrong. To say that the players are just wrong is too over simplistic. Not so long ago they were perfectly right, i.e. when we signed them. Then something happens here which is the root of the problem though I can't say exactly what it is. But they need a safe and steady guiding hand and Jones seemingly can't offer that.
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Post by bingbang on Feb 17, 2019 4:40:59 GMT
I think the biggest problem is the players respect or lack of it. We have 90 percent premier League players with premier League attitudes, that is why I believe we needed a manager the players knew and a manager that knew how to deal with these prima Donna's. Instead we are now being led by someone i bet most supporters had never heard of never mind the players.i thinks in close season he has to totally change our squad and bring in younger players from lower leagues and stop the two dickheads from overseeing all our transfers.
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Post by PotteringThrough on Feb 17, 2019 7:10:16 GMT
It's going to be a long journey, we've got ourselves in a position where there isn't a quick fix. There appears to be a real negative attitude within the club from the players and confidence is low.
Jones needs time. He needs to get his players in and keep those that want to stay & turn it around.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2019 7:13:25 GMT
I see no early shoots to get excited about yet. we really do need to give managers a chance ...He needs a season after this. I still don't believe there'll be a promotion at the end of the next season, but we'll know whether we like what we see.
Either way, I'll not blame every manager we wheel in That blame is for the owners alone
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Post by Fred Ferret on Feb 17, 2019 7:28:19 GMT
back to the promised land? Will he really be able to get better players in who will improve this squad or first 11? I must admit I'm not a believer any more, but I really hope I'm wrong. Our approach to games is so negative, and today after scoring that fortunate goal we showed no desire to go for a second one. In the end we probably got the punishment we deserved for such an attitude. As my son and I said, we won't meet many teams worse than Ipswich. They were truely awful, but again we managed to throw away two points. It's really starting to get a bit comical to be honest. Jones will take us further down the road to oblivion, more commonly known as League 1. If not this season, although it could still happen, then next. Because he has absolutely no clue what he is doing. He's just dancing in the dark. Which right minded player will want to join the Stoke circus where everyone gets worse? Only those who are in it for the money will. I agree completely with your analysis. I am somewhat disgusted that we even got a point, because we did not deserve it. In the end we shall be happy, though, because we'll need every point to stay up. Oh dear. What a sad state we are all in!
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Post by lawrieleslie on Feb 17, 2019 7:30:17 GMT
I believe that getting rid of our dead wood from around our necks is Jone's priority. Then the rebuilding will take Jones another 2 or 3 seasons. There is something deeply disturbing about us that turns decent players like Afobe, Vokes, Ince et al into mediocre struggling players almost overnight. Buckle yourselves in for a rollercoaster couple of years chaps.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2019 7:40:51 GMT
Even with Rowett blowing 50M I said this was a 3 year job last summer and I was rounded on by the usual experts on here.
This first year was always going to be the hardest, made worse by the money spent.
I had us down this season to be upper half with the odd flirt with the play offs, which we've come nowhere near. Next year to have serious go at the play offs and build to a serious go at Promotion the year after.
Having witnessed this year and the compounding of the problems by Rowett then I'd extend that forecast by another year.
I honestly don't think people realise just what a mess our club is, even now, and I think people realise even less just how much it's going to take both on and off the pitch to turn it around.
It's one of the reasons why I wanted Potter in the summer. A young manager with a clear philosophy and money spent bringing in the right profile of player to build for the future. More importantly, money spent getting rid of the wrong profile of player we've subjected ourselves to over the last 4 years.
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Post by loosestools on Feb 17, 2019 7:44:04 GMT
I believe that getting rid of our dead wood from around our necks is Jone's priority. Then the rebuilding will take Jones another 2 or 3 seasons. There is something deeply disturbing about us that turns decent players like Afobe, Vokes, Ince et al into mediocre struggling players almost overnight. Buckle yourselves in for a rollercoaster couple of years chaps. Lack of desire, lack of respect for manager and club , lazy attitude, couldn't are less about the fans, earning too much money, being exposed as frauds on the pitch, lack of ambition in the club hierarchy that's what's is making them mediocre. As has been said before, they all can't become bad players overnight.
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Post by GeneralFaye on Feb 17, 2019 7:45:41 GMT
He was the cheap option. I’m feeling less optimistic every week goes by. He’s getting less out of the squad than Rowett. This bollocks about rebuilding in the summer, does anybody really believe he’s going to be allowed bring in another 9 or 10 players and just get rid or pay off the so called dead wood? I hope he comes good but Im honestly starting to think he ain’t got a clue. Just cross your fingers and hope for the best like the Coates family seem to be doing. Suppose I’ve seen worse in 30 plus years.😂😂 How is it/he the cheap option?! we've paid another £1m for a manager who wants to change the ethos of the whole club. Do you think getting rid of all these charlatans and replacing them with his own players will be cheap?! I think this appointment is the exact opposite of cheap myself.
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Post by cdlstoke on Feb 17, 2019 8:14:01 GMT
He was the cheap option. I’m feeling less optimistic every week goes by. He’s getting less out of the squad than Rowett. This bollocks about rebuilding in the summer, does anybody really believe he’s going to be allowed bring in another 9 or 10 players and just get rid or pay off the so called dead wood? I hope he comes good but Im honestly starting to think he ain’t got a clue. Just cross your fingers and hope for the best like the Coates family seem to be doing. Suppose I’ve seen worse in 30 plus years.😂😂 How is it/he the cheap option?! we've paid another £1m for a manager who wants to change the ethos of the whole club. Do you think getting rid of all these charlatans and replacing them with his own players will be cheap?! I think this appointment is the exact opposite of cheap myself. Do you really think there going to get rid of all of them and replace them? No chance. In football he was a cheap option. Low wages and small back room staff. Ok if it comes off but I’m becoming less convinced as the weeks go by. As I say we’re just hoping he comes good.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Feb 17, 2019 8:24:41 GMT
No one is asking for 'miracles overnight'. But with the introduction of a new manager and an additional £16m of 'talent' in the January window most folks didn't expect things to get worse. As for the question in the OP I would say a 'No, not a hope', he looks and sounds completely crackers to me! There was every chance things were going to get worse even if it means long term they get better though? Two new signings and a new manager parachuted in mid season aren’t going to be an instant cure are they? We have the existing cowards topped up with another £40m worth of cowards, it’s hardly a lick of paint job. We had two choices. A quick fix pragmatic type to tighten things up but do not much else, or a ‘project’ that could be a disaster or could over time turn us into the kind of forward thinking, stylish outfit that bypassed us during our own time in the Premier League. I personally am pleased that we’ve rolled the dice on the latter for once. Who knows how it’ll turn out? This is still chapter one.
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Post by GeneralFaye on Feb 17, 2019 8:29:38 GMT
How is it/he the cheap option?! we've paid another £1m for a manager who wants to change the ethos of the whole club. Do you think getting rid of all these charlatans and replacing them with his own players will be cheap?! I think this appointment is the exact opposite of cheap myself. Do you really think there going to get rid of all of them and replace them? No chance. In football he was a cheap option. Low wages and small back room staff. Ok if it comes off but I’m becoming less convinced as the weeks go by. As I say we’re just hoping he comes good. Yes, I really do think he'll get rid of as many as he can. Only have to look at the way he got rid of Erik after 1 game. In no way is this the cheap option, far from it.
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Post by robwahlmann on Feb 17, 2019 9:07:20 GMT
back to the promised land? Will he really be able to get better players in who will improve this squad or first 11? I must admit I'm not a believer any more, but I really hope I'm wrong. Our approach to games is so negative, and today after scoring that fortunate goal we showed no desire to go for a second one. In the end we probably got the punishment we deserved for such an attitude. As my son and I said, we won't meet many teams worse than Ipswich. They were truely awful, but again we managed to throw away two points. It's really starting to get a bit comical to be honest. Look at Luton. He took over when they were languishing in 18th place in League 2. Left them after 2 and a bit years in 2nd place in League 1. Yet again, for whatever reason, out so called fans are unprepared to back him because he hasn't bought total success. We are so short sighted as a fan base it is laughable SGS I really wish I had your optimism about this project.
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Post by robwahlmann on Feb 17, 2019 9:12:26 GMT
Someone else must be stupid if they interpreted what I wrote as a definite answer to anything! I just said I'm not a believer any more, if I said anything else I'd be a lier! 7 games is all it took to make you a non believer, he's signed two players of his own and has a very unbalanced squad lacking creativity or pace and you gave him 7 games I really think we'll struggle to bring better players in next season, and we don't look very creative at the moment. If we can't come up with more than 3-4 good opportunities against rock bottom Ipswich I find it hard to believe he can turn this team into a promotion chasing one, I really do. I really hope I'm wrong though!
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Post by cdlstoke on Feb 17, 2019 9:13:03 GMT
Do you really think there going to get rid of all of them and replace them? No chance. In football he was a cheap option. Low wages and small back room staff. Ok if it comes off but I’m becoming less convinced as the weeks go by. As I say we’re just hoping he comes good. Yes, I really do think he'll get rid of as many as he can. Only have to look at the way he got rid of Erik after 1 game. In no way is this the cheap option, far from it. Which wasn’t a great move leaving us with no left back. We will have to agree to disagree. I think he was a cheap and fingers crossed appointment.
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Post by robwahlmann on Feb 17, 2019 9:16:48 GMT
I believe that getting rid of our dead wood from around our necks is Jone's priority. Then the rebuilding will take Jones another 2 or 3 seasons. There is something deeply disturbing about us that turns decent players like Afobe, Vokes, Ince et al into mediocre struggling players almost overnight. Buckle yourselves in for a rollercoaster couple of years chaps. Well, after supporting this team for close to 45 years now rollercoaster seasons really are what I'm used to.
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Post by jontimmis on Feb 17, 2019 9:46:19 GMT
No
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Post by devondumpling on Feb 17, 2019 9:54:53 GMT
Yes
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Post by zigazaga on Feb 17, 2019 10:00:25 GMT
He certainly talks the talk...but it seems he can't walk the walk at the moment. If he eventually does what he says he's going to do then fair play to him but all I've seen from him is consistent relegation form.
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Post by Clayton Wood on Feb 17, 2019 10:03:07 GMT
Emperors new clothes, same shit different tracksuit.
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Post by roylandstoke on Feb 17, 2019 10:11:32 GMT
I have to question the ability and judgement of anyone who thinks McClean is a viable football player.
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Post by SneydGreenStokie on Feb 17, 2019 10:29:04 GMT
Look at Luton. He took over when they were languishing in 18th place in League 2. Left them after 2 and a bit years in 2nd place in League 1. Yet again, for whatever reason, out so called fans are unprepared to back him because he hasn't bought total success. We are so short sighted as a fan base it is laughable SGS I really wish I had your optimism about this project. Its nor necessarily optimism. Its realism. We cannot keep sacking managers who dont turn us around instantly. Id take long term progress, building an identity and way of playing again over short term fix with no substance to it any day of the week. SGS
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Post by SneydGreenStokie on Feb 17, 2019 10:29:34 GMT
Emperors new clothes, same shit different tracksuit. Totally different way of playing im afraid SGS
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Post by Clayton Wood on Feb 17, 2019 10:40:02 GMT
Emperors new clothes, same shit different tracksuit. Totally different way of playing im afraid SGS Our limited players need the basics drilling into them. So far there isn't much evidence he has/can do that. I totally agree he's a different approach to tactics but he doesn't have the quality midfield to do it. Plan B is failing worse that Rowett/Lambert's did.
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Post by robwahlmann on Feb 17, 2019 10:41:18 GMT
I really wish I had your optimism about this project. Its nor necessarily optimism. Its realism. We cannot keep sacking managers who dont turn us around instantly. Id take long term progress, building an identity and way of playing again over short term fix with no substance to it any day of the week. SGS You might be right, but I still feel we should do better with the players already here. If there are any positives we have stopped leaking goals for fun, but we also seem to make the same mistakes over and over again. Why do we constantly switch off at crucial moments? Yesterday we gave away a needless corner at the end because Afobe (I think it was him) was more interested in calling for a free-kick than working hard for the ball, and then we had to give away the corner where we knew there was hardly more than a minute left of the game. We then allow them a free header at the back post to make it even worse! Things like this happen again and again, and it certainly can't be coincidental any longer, but why!!??
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Post by sufolkstokie on Feb 17, 2019 10:45:04 GMT
Until something happens higher up than whoever the manager is, this saga will keeping playing out on repeat
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Post by tqstokie on Feb 17, 2019 10:46:31 GMT
Well you do have to wonder. He keeps on doing the same thing and expecting a different result. IMHO if he is trying to find a winning combination, Bauer and Adam should have started. He should have tried Berahino with Vokes up front and considered a place for Diouf and Bojan subs. To continue with Mclean up front and Ince behind when it clearly isn't working is madness. I only saw the second half and I don't remember their goalkeeper having a save to make. I have plenty of patience and the manager sees these players on a daily basis so should have some idea of what works. He has now tried a similar combination three times and it doesn't work!
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Post by adamsson on Feb 17, 2019 10:46:45 GMT
7 games is all it took to make you a non believer, he's signed two players of his own and has a very unbalanced squad lacking creativity or pace and you gave him 7 games I really think we'll struggle to bring better players in next season, and we don't look very creative at the moment. If we can't come up with more than 3-4 good opportunities against rock bottom Ipswich I find it hard to believe he can turn this team into a promotion chasing one, I really do. I really hope I'm wrong though! It will be loans and free transfers next season or we will be stuffed under FFP
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2019 10:47:08 GMT
No. Yesterday I did but now I think he’s just a liar like the rest of them so I don’t believe a word he says. Harsh but true.
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