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Post by crouchpotato1 on Jan 13, 2019 14:41:06 GMT
I think a few of Clive Clarke’s tweets today are spot on Quite clear where Clarke feels the fingers should be pointed isn't it? Mr espley wont accept it though. Hes seemingly a one man mouth piece for Messrs Scholes and Cartwright. It certainly is Dave by the looks of those tweets.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Jan 13, 2019 14:43:39 GMT
I don't think Scholes is that keen to discuss on the field matters if my memory serves me right from previous meetings.
In fact he doesn't really like scrutiny of any type.
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Post by doitforfrank on Jan 13, 2019 14:45:37 GMT
The only gibberish is some poor English. The points he makes are absolutely valid. There can only be two explanations for the spectacular fall from grace we are seeing, one is rank bad management at all levels, on the pitch, on the sidelines (inc. CEO & Technical Director) & in the boardroom. The other is that the Coates family are taking their toys back. I don’t believe it’s the latter, as they’ve allowed the pyramid below to spend vast sums (for Stoke) on this failure. We can’t keep blaming the manager as the same thing has happened for three possibly four now. The explanation sits with the common denominators in the farce and that’s Scholes and Cartwright, they have overseen it all, and I’m sorry Malcolm, even though I have the utmost respect for what you do for all fans, the freeze on tickets and free travel etc. aren’t magnificent gestures, they are simply tools to keep supporters onside. The certain fact is, that the rank bad decisions regarding playing staff and 1st team management have cost the business far far more than the difference in ticket price or coach travel etc. To agree and negotiate a couple of the transfers would be forgivable, but Berahino, Wimmer, Jesé, Imbula, N’Diaye, Martina, Williams, McLean and Clucas and more show massive flaws. Jones yesterday said that such a system meant that the correct research on a player was concluded before signing a player to see if for the right word the player had the right DNA, was almost watertight. He clearly hadn’t looked at our recent transfer windows. Recognising the importance of keeping supporters onside is a very important part of good ownership and mangement, isn't it ? And I don't think we should ever underestimate the importance of ticket prices and the cost of travel to away games. But I agree with you that the recent record on player and indeed manager recruitment hasn't been good ( although I don't personally agree with all your examples), and that this is a major concern for fans (including me). I can't belive it isn't also a major concern for the owners, which is why I think it should be discussed at the Supporters Council, which is set up for dialogue between the club and supporters, where the club can give their view on the issue, outline who does what, and what changes, if any, have been made to the process. That's certainly a better option than not backing the team and new manager. However I think it would need to be available to a wider audience rather than "edited highlights" after the event. Maybe a live podcast type scenario where only the individuals present can ask them the pressing issues so that the wider audience can see and hear so as to make their own minds up. There's always a sense from the "minutes" that something is missing. You will obviously know Scholes and Co. Much better than me, however on the occasions I have met Scholes I have always found him a quite rude and arrogant individual. Hence my scepticism that there could ever be an open and honest discussion regarding our recruitment policy and record.
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Post by questionable on Jan 13, 2019 14:56:55 GMT
The only gibberish is some poor English. The points he makes are absolutely valid. There can only be two explanations for the spectacular fall from grace we are seeing, one is rank bad management at all levels, on the pitch, on the sidelines (inc. CEO & Technical Director) & in the boardroom. The other is that the Coates family are taking their toys back. I don’t believe it’s the latter, as they’ve allowed the pyramid below to spend vast sums (for Stoke) on this failure. We can’t keep blaming the manager as the same thing has happened for three possibly four now. The explanation sits with the common denominators in the farce and that’s Scholes and Cartwright, they have overseen it all, and I’m sorry Malcolm, even though I have the utmost respect for what you do for all fans, the freeze on tickets and free travel etc. aren’t magnificent gestures, they are simply tools to keep supporters onside. The certain fact is, that the rank bad decisions regarding playing staff and 1st team management have cost the business far far more than the difference in ticket price or coach travel etc. To agree and negotiate a couple of the transfers would be forgivable, but Berahino, Wimmer, Jesé, Imbula, N’Diaye, Martina, Williams, McLean and Clucas and more show massive flaws. Jones yesterday said that such a system meant that the correct research on a player was concluded before signing a player to see if for the right word the player had the right DNA, was almost watertight. He clearly hadn’t looked at our recent transfer windows. Recognising the importance of keeping supporters onside is a very important part of good ownership and mangement, isn't it ? And I don't think we should ever underestimate the importance of ticket prices and the cost of travel to away games. But I agree with you that the recent record on player and indeed manager recruitment hasn't been good ( although I don't personally agree with all your examples), and that this is a major concern for fans (including me). I can't belive it isn't also a major concern for the owners, which is why I think it should be discussed at the Supporters Council, which is set up for dialogue between the club and supporters, where the club can give their view on the issue, outline who does what, and what changes, if any, have been made to the process. Malcom not having a go here by and means but it’s becoming a little tiresome to keep citing what about the ticket prices and free away travel it’s about the shambles on the pitch we’re all concerned about
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Post by Malcolm Clarke on Jan 13, 2019 15:19:19 GMT
Recognising the importance of keeping supporters onside is a very important part of good ownership and mangement, isn't it ? And I don't think we should ever underestimate the importance of ticket prices and the cost of travel to away games. But I agree with you that the recent record on player and indeed manager recruitment hasn't been good ( although I don't personally agree with all your examples), and that this is a major concern for fans (including me). I can't belive it isn't also a major concern for the owners, which is why I think it should be discussed at the Supporters Council, which is set up for dialogue between the club and supporters, where the club can give their view on the issue, outline who does what, and what changes, if any, have been made to the process. Malcom not having a go here by and means but it’s becoming a little tiresome to keep citing what about the ticket prices and free away travel it’s about the shambles on the pitch we’re all concerned about To be fair, I was replying to frank's post. I am as concerned at what's happeneing on the pitch as the next fan. I am still in a stake of shock after yesterday. I have suggested that the recruitment performance and strategy should be discussed at the Supporters Council, which is there as the forum for dialogue between fans and the Club.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Jan 13, 2019 15:22:39 GMT
Malcom not having a go here by and means but it’s becoming a little tiresome to keep citing what about the ticket prices and free away travel it’s about the shambles on the pitch we’re all concerned about To be fair, I was replying to frank's post. I am as concerned at what's happeneing on the pitch as the next fan. I am still in a stake of shock after yesterday. I have suggested that the recruitment performance and strategy should be discussed at the Supporters Council, which is there as the forum for dialogue between fans and the Club. He wont discuss those type of things.
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Post by Malcolm Clarke on Jan 13, 2019 15:22:49 GMT
Recognising the importance of keeping supporters onside is a very important part of good ownership and mangement, isn't it ? And I don't think we should ever underestimate the importance of ticket prices and the cost of travel to away games. But I agree with you that the recent record on player and indeed manager recruitment hasn't been good ( although I don't personally agree with all your examples), and that this is a major concern for fans (including me). I can't belive it isn't also a major concern for the owners, which is why I think it should be discussed at the Supporters Council, which is set up for dialogue between the club and supporters, where the club can give their view on the issue, outline who does what, and what changes, if any, have been made to the process. That's certainly a better option than not backing the team and new manager. However I think it would need to be available to a wider audience rather than "edited highlights" after the event. Maybe a live podcast type scenario where only the individuals present can ask them the pressing issues so that the wider audience can see and hear so as to make their own minds up. There's always a sense from the "minutes" that something is missing. You will obviously know Scholes and Co. Much better than me, however on the occasions I have met Scholes I have always found him a quite rude and arrogant individual. Hence my scepticism that there could ever be an open and honest discussion regarding our recruitment policy and record. I agree with you that there is no point if the proceedings are in any way confidential. I think the podcast idea is a good one.
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Post by Clayton Wood on Jan 13, 2019 15:23:57 GMT
To be fair, I was replying to frank's post. I am as concerned at what's happeneing on the pitch as the next fan. I am still in a stake of shock after yesterday. I have suggested that the recruitment performance and strategy should be discussed at the Supporters Council, which is there as the forum for dialogue between fans and the Club. He wont discuss those type of things. Business confidentiality <cough>
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Post by Malcolm Clarke on Jan 13, 2019 15:32:22 GMT
To be fair, I was replying to frank's post. I am as concerned at what's happeneing on the pitch as the next fan. I am still in a stake of shock after yesterday. I have suggested that the recruitment performance and strategy should be discussed at the Supporters Council, which is there as the forum for dialogue between fans and the Club. He wont discuss those type of things. I don't know on what basis you are saying that but if you are right and the members put it on the agenda, but the club refused to discuss it, that would be a significant thing in itself. But to decline to raise the issue on the untested assumption that the club wouldn't discuss it, would be silly in my view. Better to do so than fans just getting angry and abusive on a message Board.
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Post by Clayton Wood on Jan 13, 2019 15:46:17 GMT
He wont discuss those type of things. I don't know on what basis you are saying that but if you are right and the members put it on the agenda, but the club refused to discuss it, that would be a significant thing in itself. But to decline to raise the issue on the untested assumption that the club wouldn't discuss it, would be silly in my view. Better to do so than fans just getting angry and abusive on a message Board. I don't know the characters involved here (you undoubtedly do) but looking from the outside in I can't believe they will discuss the inner working of club recruitment with the SC when they won't even disclose season ticket sales. But as you say if you don't ask...
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Post by sheikhmomo on Jan 13, 2019 15:47:53 GMT
He wont discuss those type of things. I don't know on what basis you are saying that but if you are right and the members put it on the agenda, but the club refused to discuss it, that would be a significant thing in itself. But to decline to raise the issue on the untested assumption that the club wouldn't discuss it, would be silly in my view. Better to do so than fans just getting angry and abusive on a message Board. I'm fairly certain he's bristled at similar discussions in the past. The minutes never suggest any meaningful discussion about on field matters despite 3 years of cataclysmic decline.
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Post by Malcolm Clarke on Jan 13, 2019 15:53:37 GMT
I don't know on what basis you are saying that but if you are right and the members put it on the agenda, but the club refused to discuss it, that would be a significant thing in itself. But to decline to raise the issue on the untested assumption that the club wouldn't discuss it, would be silly in my view. Better to do so than fans just getting angry and abusive on a message Board. I'm fairly certain he's bristled at similar discussions in the past. The minutes never suggest any meaningful discussion about on field matters despite 3 years of cataclysmic decline. The fact (if it be so) that something hasn't been discussed is not the same as saying that the club refuse to discuss it. It's up to the supporters' reps to raise the issues and questions and see what the Club response is.
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Post by sheriffofrockridge on Jan 13, 2019 15:59:04 GMT
They will never enter into any meaningful discussion about player recruitment because they know that their record has been utterly abysmal and by discussing it they can be easily found out by supporters to be wholly incompetent.
Instead the club prefers to fire managers in an attempt to cover up their endless mistakes. There's nothing wrong with the process kids even though throughout this fiasco managers have come and gone, yet two common denominators remain.
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Post by loosestools on Jan 13, 2019 16:08:17 GMT
Perhaps Bryn who is a star caller on P and G should be put forward to raise these issues?
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Post by doitforfrank on Jan 16, 2019 0:36:45 GMT
After Saturday and tonight these two need to go NOW, as in NOW, RIGHT NOW. The players that Jones has got are an absolute fucking disgrace to the club, and those two have been there to sign them all. I aint a huge Pulis fan, but this wouldn't have happened when he had control.
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