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Post by amathus on Jan 3, 2019 11:52:23 GMT
It's fair to say that whatever happens with Rowett, he's not the problem with the club. In my opinion, directing all the anger and fury at him is not entirely fair and most of the blame lies with the Board. Whether you like him or not, Rowett is being made a scapegoat for bigger problems that lie elsewhere. A new manager is just going to walk into the same problem.
From everything I've read and tried to draw together, there is absolutely zero cohesion between the Manager, Coates family, Scholes and Cartwright that has remained since the end of Pulis' reign.
Yes, Rowett certainly hasn't helped himself with some of the comments about the fans and his tactics, but there appears to be a much bigger political problem behind the scenes. I must add, I'm not a massive fan of Rowett's and I'm not leaping to his defence. Even if I wanted him to be a huge success for the club, he's reached the point of no return. Which is still a shame.
It seems obvious that Rowett hasn't wanted to use players that have been bought by Scholes/Cartwright and they don't want the manager using or buying his chosen players. There is no cohesion which the board has created (not the manager) which is causing this unrest. Whether that be on footballing matters, transfer policy or manager appointments. If Rowett didn't have these issues, would we find ourselves in a different position? Despite his tactics, I certainly think so.
It's these issues that are causing problems in the dressing room and the manager has to pick up the pieces and put out a team to perform on a Saturday. If you've got all this in-fighting and politics going on, how is the manager supposed to do this properly with players taking sides with the manager or Scholes/Cartwright? People talk about the job being too big for Rowett, I just don't think that's the case. He hasn't become a bad manager overnight. He's naively walked into this political s**tstorm and is making the most of a bad hand - even if he's not helping himself sometimes.
Rather than venting yet more anger and 'Rowett Out' banners on Saturday, it needs to be aimed at Scholes/Cartwright.
Rowett may have to go, but it's time for these 'idiots' to go with him!
Scholes/Cartwright OUT!
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jan 3, 2019 11:54:20 GMT
It's fair to say that whatever happens with Rowett, he's not the problem with the club. In my opinion, directing all the anger and fury at him is not entirely fair and most of the blame lies with the Board. Whether you like him or not, Rowett is being made a scapegoat for bigger problems that lie elsewhere. A new manager is just going to walk into the same problem. From everything I've read and tried to draw together, there is absolutely zero cohesion between the Manager, Coates family, Scholes and Cartwright that has remained since the end of Pulis' reign. Yes, Rowett certainly hasn't helped himself with some of the comments about the fans and his tactics, but there appears to be a much bigger political problem behind the scenes. I must add, I'm not a massive fan of Rowett's and I'm not leaping to his defence. Even if I wanted him to be a huge success for the club, he's reached the point of no return. Which is still a shame. It seems obvious that Rowett hasn't wanted to use players that have been bought by Scholes/Cartwright and they don't want the manager using or buying his chosen players. There is no cohesion which the board has created (not the manager) which is causing this unrest. Whether that be on footballing matters, transfer policy or manager appointments. If Rowett didn't have these issues, would we find ourselves in a different position? Despite his tactics, I certainly think so. It's these issues that are causing problems in the dressing room and the manager has to pick up the pieces and put out a team to perform on a Saturday. If you've got all this in-fighting and politics going on, how is the manager supposed to do this properly with players taking sides with the manager or Scholes/Cartwright? People talk about the job being too big for Rowett, I just don't think that's the case. He hasn't become a bad manager overnight. He's naively walked into this political s**tstorm and is making the most of a bad hand - even if he's not helping himself sometimes. Rather than venting yet more anger and 'Rowett Out' banners on Saturday, it needs to be aimed at Scholes/Cartwright. Rowett may have to go, but it's time for these 'idiots' to go with him!
Scholes/Cartwright OUT!Whatever's going on, he is mainfestly not 'making the most of a bad hand' - a 'bad hand' which includes the largest budget in the Championship. |
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Post by amathus on Jan 3, 2019 11:56:08 GMT
I take your point, perhaps not the best phrase for the situation.
Whatever the budget, wage bill or squad value may be, these issues at upper management are going to prevent anyone from doing their job properly.
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Post by cdlstoke on Jan 3, 2019 11:58:02 GMT
Whatever these two have done, they don’t pick the team and tactics. Rowett 100% to blame for what’s happening on the pitch.
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Post by amathus on Jan 3, 2019 12:02:06 GMT
Whatever these two have done, they don’t pick the team and tactics. Rowett 100% to blame for what’s happening on the pitch. I disagree, not 100%. The bigger issues at the club will always emanate their way down the chain to the dressing room and therefore the pitch. |
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Post by Gary Hackett on Jan 3, 2019 12:06:37 GMT
Scholes has been here since 2004 overseeing promotion, a trip to Europe, 10 years in the premier league with three 9 place finishes.
Of course its all his fault.
Cartwright needs to go mind.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jan 3, 2019 12:07:46 GMT
So what are these issues, specifically? We hear all this cloak and dagger, long shadows stuff but nobody seems to know precisely what the issues are?
I can't quite get my head round the idea that they don't want Rowett to use his chosen players when he's had a load of money to spend on them and has, erm, used them?
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Post by amathus on Jan 3, 2019 12:08:19 GMT
Scholes has been here since 2004 overseeing promotion, a trip to Europe, 10 years in the premier league with three 9 place finishes. Of course its all his fault. What do you think the problems are then? Solely the manager? |
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Post by march4 on Jan 3, 2019 12:09:09 GMT
All 3 should go.
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Post by rockthecity on Jan 3, 2019 12:09:41 GMT
All 3 need to leave!
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Post by callas12 on Jan 3, 2019 12:10:37 GMT
I've said this before, Rowetts fed up of internal club politics and is engineering his escape route on his terms which is where the club have backed themselves into a corner.
If they let things fester and don't act we'll continue to have the performances and atmosphere we had on NYD but if they do act to rid the emerging problem they'll be paying vast sums out in payoff cash to Rowett and his team to move them out & we'll have the stigma of having had disposed of 3x managers in 12 months..
Whole things a sorry mess & has been brewing for the last couple of seasons. & as folk are saying, a manager change now will only paper over the cracks..
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Post by cdlstoke on Jan 3, 2019 12:14:10 GMT
Whatever these two have done, they don’t pick the team and tactics. Rowett 100% to blame for what’s happening on the pitch. I disagree, not 100%. The bigger issues at the club will always emanate their way down the chain to the dressing room and therefore the pitch. Just keep making excuses for the clown. Hughes seem to do ok first 3years. Everyone to the own. On Scholes if you think he’s going anywhere soon your kidding yourself.😂😂 |
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Post by nottsover60 on Jan 3, 2019 12:14:59 GMT
As coachcarter says in one of his tweets (and he is obviously a coach but not at Stoke), players cannot perform in a toxic atmosphere however much they try and "a happy club makes a happy team". Presumably the opposite is also true.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2019 12:19:19 GMT
The amount of recruitment mistakes we've made are not a coincidence. Now is the time to sweep the decks clean, and even that is 6 months late.
New manager, new CEO and new Technical Director.
We already know they've failed at the top level, so it's akin to buying Tom Ince and wondering why he can't do it at PL level if/when you get there.
On one hand, if they have a hand in our signings then by and large they have failed. If they don't, then what are they doing on the payroll?
Off the pitch we are very poor. The matchday experience is appalling. I stood and watched two lads try and buy two pies, two portions of chips and two pints at the Bristol game.
It must have been either their first game or first in a long while.
They had no cash and tried to pay with a card. They went hungry and thirsty and Stoke City lost well over a tenners worth of business.
Still, we are being told that technology that has been in mainstream shops for decades is only still being "trialled" at modern day, backwards Stoke City, and in one stand only.
If we are staying down for a while then every penny counts. We need that business and can't afford to turn it away through sheer laziness and incompetence.
I had my own experience at the same food outlet. Half two, just half an hour before kick off and a hungry 6 year old decided he wanted some chips to eat. They had no chips ready and the fryers weren't even switched on I was told.
Pitiful.
I'd sack the lot of them yesterday.
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Post by cobhamstokey on Jan 3, 2019 12:24:20 GMT
The amount of recruitment mistakes we've made are not a coincidence. Now is the time to sweep the decks clean, and even that is 6 months late. New manager, new CEO and new Technical Director. We already know they've failed at the top level, so it's akin to buying Tom Ince and wondering why he can't do it at PL level if/when you get there. On one hand, if they have a hand in our signings then by and large they have failed. If they don't, then what are they doing on the payroll? Off the pitch we are very poor. The matchday experience is appalling. I stood and watched two lads try and buy two pies, two portions of chips and two pints at the Bristol game. It must have been either their first game or first in a long while. They had no cash and tried to pay with a card. They went hungry and thirsty and Stoke City lost well over a tenners worth of business. Still, we are being told that technology that has been in mainstream shops for decades is only still being "trialled" at modern day, backwards Stoke City, and in one stand only. If we are staying down for a while then every penny counts. We need that business and can't afford to turn it away through sheer laziness and incompetence. I had my own experience at the same food outlet. Half two, just half an hour before kick off and a hungry 6 year old decided he wanted some chips to eat. They had no chips ready and the fryers weren't even switched on I was told. Pitiful. I'd sack the lot of them yesterday. Spot on. Getting rid of all 3 will bring the feel good factor back very quickly. Right now we’re embaressing ourselves |
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Post by march4 on Jan 3, 2019 12:27:18 GMT
If it is true that Scholes wants Moyes as manager then Moyes should be the last person we consider.
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Post by riproaringagain on Jan 3, 2019 12:28:45 GMT
I've said this before, Rowetts fed up of internal club politics and is engineering his escape route on his terms which is where the club have backed themselves into a corner. If they let things fester and don't act we'll continue to have the performances and atmosphere we had on NYD but if they do act to rid the emerging problem they'll be paying vast sums out in payoff cash to Rowett and his team to move them out & we'll have the stigma of having had disposed of 3x managers in 12 months.. Whole things a sorry mess & has been brewing for the last couple of seasons. & as folk are saying, a manager change now will only paper over the cracks.. What politics? You talking Scholes and oss Cartwright |
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Post by AlanHansen on Jan 3, 2019 12:30:24 GMT
We need a clean slate. Cartwright has to go, he's massively failed, the facts don't lie. Scholes needs to go too.
Rowett has dug himself a hole he's going to struggle to get out of, and his football is mindnumbingly boring. If he goes, fine with me.
Then we need to clear out a whole load of players. In the main the remnants of the Premier era.
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Post by wuzza on Jan 3, 2019 12:35:13 GMT
We don’t even know that recruitment mistakes have been the responsibility of these two - who is to say they haven’t acted on instructions from the team managers or at the very least given those managers the final say.
All this cloak and dagger behind the scenes stuff is pure speculation probably resulting from people trying to find clever reasons for what has simply been a whole bunch of errors made by successive managers.
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Post by callas12 on Jan 3, 2019 12:46:27 GMT
I've said this before, Rowetts fed up of internal club politics and is engineering his escape route on his terms which is where the club have backed themselves into a corner. If they let things fester and don't act we'll continue to have the performances and atmosphere we had on NYD but if they do act to rid the emerging problem they'll be paying vast sums out in payoff cash to Rowett and his team to move them out & we'll have the stigma of having had disposed of 3x managers in 12 months.. Whole things a sorry mess & has been brewing for the last couple of seasons. & as folk are saying, a manager change now will only paper over the cracks.. What politics? You talking Scholes and oss Cartwright I'm not sure of the exact politics but I know they exist and I know that Rowett is affected by them & is being shackled in doing his job. It's me summising that it involves Scholes or Cartwright or combination of both as can't imagine it's anyone else or that anyone else would have such an effect on his managing of the club. This coupled with Mike Pejics comments on Radio Stoke point towards the same conclusions. |
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Post by Veritas on Jan 3, 2019 13:00:41 GMT
What politics? You talking Scholes and oss Cartwright I'm not sure of the exact politics but I know they exist and I know that Rowett is affected by them & is being shackled in doing his job. It's me summising that it involves Scholes or Cartwright or combination of both as can't imagine it's anyone else or that anyone else would have such an effect on his managing of the club. This coupled with Mike Pejics comments on Radio Stoke point towards the same conclusions. I doubt very much if you actually know anything about the inner workings at the club, I also doubt whether Pejic actually knows either. |
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Post by mrred on Jan 3, 2019 13:02:07 GMT
I do find it amazing that these two clowns have completely escaped vocal criticism in the ground for so long.
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Post by amathus on Jan 3, 2019 13:04:03 GMT
I'm not sure of the exact politics but I know they exist and I know that Rowett is affected by them & is being shackled in doing his job. It's me summising that it involves Scholes or Cartwright or combination of both as can't imagine it's anyone else or that anyone else would have such an effect on his managing of the club. This coupled with Mike Pejics comments on Radio Stoke point towards the same conclusions. I doubt very much if you actually know anything about the inner workings at the club, I also doubt whether Pejic actually knows either. No smoke without fire. There has been more hints at issues with these 2 other than just Pejic's comments on Saturday. Clive Clarke being another oatcakefanzine.proboards.com/thread/281754/clive-clarke-comments-on-transfers |
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Post by Veritas on Jan 3, 2019 13:05:20 GMT
Exactly you don't know anything specific |
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jan 3, 2019 13:07:50 GMT
Clarke distanced himself from those comments though? Is Pejic well connected? He was talking all kinds of guff at the weekend, he never knowingly gives the impression of a man who knows what's going on in the 21st Century, let alone at Stoke City. |
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Post by callas12 on Jan 3, 2019 13:08:10 GMT
I'm not sure of the exact politics but I know they exist and I know that Rowett is affected by them & is being shackled in doing his job. It's me summising that it involves Scholes or Cartwright or combination of both as can't imagine it's anyone else or that anyone else would have such an effect on his managing of the club. This coupled with Mike Pejics comments on Radio Stoke point towards the same conclusions. I doubt very much if you actually know anything about the inner workings at the club, I also doubt whether Pejic actually knows either. I don't claim to know about the inner workings of the club.. Read my text again, I make reference to Rowett and what's affecting him, that I do know.. |
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Post by Gary Hackett on Jan 3, 2019 13:22:00 GMT
Scholes has been here since 2004 overseeing promotion, a trip to Europe, 10 years in the premier league with three 9 place finishes. Of course its all his fault. What do you think the problems are then? Solely the manager? Recruitment - Which the manager has always had the final say on but as Cartwright is head of recruitment then he has to shoulder the blame too so he should go also. |
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Post by Veritas on Jan 3, 2019 13:30:02 GMT
I doubt very much if you actually know anything about the inner workings at the club, I also doubt whether Pejic actually knows either. I don't claim to know about the inner workings of the club.. Read my text again, I make reference to Rowett and what's affecting him, that I do know.. What you said is ''I know that Rowett is affected by them & is being shackled in doing his job'' When of course you don't know that, what you do know is Rowett is doing a rubbish job and you are surmising what may be causing that. |
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Post by nottsover60 on Jan 3, 2019 13:38:54 GMT
Why are some people so keen to back these two? What exactly have they achieved to merit a blind eye being turned to all rumours and speculation. My two bits of information are facts not speculation at all. I am not a regular poster on here and no longer live in Stoke. I have just been given valid reason for being concerned at how the club is being run. How many managers do some people want to fail before they are willing to accept the problem runs deeper. Read what coachcarter says on the Pejic thread. This happened in the latter years of Hughes when Scholes was surrounded by yes men. We are told he didn't dare interfere on football matters under Pulis.
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Post by boskampsflaps on Jan 3, 2019 13:43:04 GMT
It's fair to say that whatever happens with Rowett, he's not the problem with the club. In my opinion, directing all the anger and fury at him is not entirely fair and most of the blame lies with the Board. Whether you like him or not, Rowett is being made a scapegoat for bigger problems that lie elsewhere. A new manager is just going to walk into the same problem. From everything I've read and tried to draw together, there is absolutely zero cohesion between the Manager, Coates family, Scholes and Cartwright that has remained since the end of Pulis' reign. Yes, Rowett certainly hasn't helped himself with some of the comments about the fans and his tactics, but there appears to be a much bigger political problem behind the scenes. I must add, I'm not a massive fan of Rowett's and I'm not leaping to his defence. Even if I wanted him to be a huge success for the club, he's reached the point of no return. Which is still a shame. It seems obvious that Rowett hasn't wanted to use players that have been bought by Scholes/Cartwright and they don't want the manager using or buying his chosen players. There is no cohesion which the board has created (not the manager) which is causing this unrest. Whether that be on footballing matters, transfer policy or manager appointments. If Rowett didn't have these issues, would we find ourselves in a different position? Despite his tactics, I certainly think so. It's these issues that are causing problems in the dressing room and the manager has to pick up the pieces and put out a team to perform on a Saturday. If you've got all this in-fighting and politics going on, how is the manager supposed to do this properly with players taking sides with the manager or Scholes/Cartwright? People talk about the job being too big for Rowett, I just don't think that's the case. He hasn't become a bad manager overnight. He's naively walked into this political s**tstorm and is making the most of a bad hand - even if he's not helping himself sometimes. Rather than venting yet more anger and 'Rowett Out' banners on Saturday, it needs to be aimed at Scholes/Cartwright. Rowett may have to go, but it's time for these 'idiots' to go with him!
Scholes/Cartwright OUT!Which players are those, this is all just unfounded lala land nonsense, with no factual evidence to back it up. |
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