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Post by boskampsflaps on Jan 8, 2019 11:54:10 GMT
Scholes has been at the helm of a sinking ship for 3 seasons at least. Shite commercial record,shite team and player recruitment record and a relegation. Hes doing really well. You say that as if he chooses the players etc, he doesn't.
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Post by mickstupp on Jan 8, 2019 11:54:57 GMT
This seasons over ,we need to get things ready and right for next season. Keep the pressure on Scholes and Cartwright now starting Saturday,i don't think we will shift Scholes but Cartwright can be ousted. Might be a good idea for people to actually understand what Cartwrights job role actually is before trying to nail him for other people’s decisions?
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Post by fca47 on Jan 8, 2019 11:57:23 GMT
Silly talk. We know Rowett wasn't a good manager because of the results, but all the stuff about Cartwright etc. is pure speculation, we don't know what goes on behind the scenes.
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Post by onefatcopper on Jan 8, 2019 11:58:32 GMT
I didn’t realise until yesterday that we had a Chief Commercial Manager ? Tony Scholes is a very clever man in the way that he places barriers between himself and any threat to his position as CEO , a Footballing Technical Director & now a Chief Commercial Manager ! can be held accountable before it lands on his doorstep,
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Post by pb1863 on Jan 8, 2019 11:59:18 GMT
This seasons over ,we need to get things ready and right for next season. Keep the pressure on Scholes and Cartwright now starting Saturday,i don't think we will shift Scholes but Cartwright can be ousted. Might be a good idea for people to actually understand what Cartwrights job role actually is before trying to nail him for other people’s decisions? Good point. What are both his & Scholes JD’s
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Post by doitforfrank on Jan 8, 2019 12:14:30 GMT
Silly talk. We know Rowett wasn't a good manager because of the results, but all the stuff about Cartwright etc. is pure speculation, we don't know what goes on behind the scenes. What isnt speculation is the downward spiral we have been on since Cartwright came in. Yes there has been some good, Arnie, Bojan and Shaq for example. But the last time we played well was with a team predominantly made up of the players from the end of the Pulis era. The more recent signings, have been woeful, and has continued with a now succession of managers. Something else needs to give above the managers role, I'd say first stop would be Cartwright. Scholes, much as I personally dont like the guy, has done and continues to do good things as mentioned in other posts. Cartwright on the other hand seems fully dispensible.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2019 12:30:57 GMT
It just occurred to me how much easier Scholes' job must be in the fact that he barely has to lift a finger with the commercial side of the business, given the bet365 connection.
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Post by Gary Hackett on Jan 8, 2019 12:33:33 GMT
Cartwright will be the next one out of the door.
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Post by questionable on Jan 8, 2019 12:37:38 GMT
Sorry but the free travel was paid for via a payment from the FA or somewhere whereby SCFC chose how to spend it????
The ST prices were reported to be a very small percentage of our income based on PL payments, not exactly a pioneering decision to sell 24,000 ST’s at the same price rather than losing ST holders for the sake of a measly increase.
Either way Scholes has to hounded out as what’s the point in sacking managers only for this prize idiot to strike yet again.
Scholes OUT
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Post by M on Jan 8, 2019 12:39:41 GMT
Sorry but the free travel was paid for via a payment from the FA or somewhere whereby SCFC chose how to spend it???? The ST prices were reported to be a very small percentage of our income based on PL payments, not exactly a pioneering decision to sell 24,000 ST’s at the same price rather than losing ST holders for the sake of a measly increase. Either way Scholes has to hounded out as what’s the point in sacking managers only for this prize idiot to strike yet again. Scholes OUT I think the PL payment was a one off season they did it and the club absorbed the running cost of it going from then,
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Post by cousindupree on Jan 8, 2019 12:44:40 GMT
Although not hugely excited by Moyes or Allardyce, they are very experienced managers and surely they would take a good look at our recruitment team and its record and find it not fit for purpose even at Champs level. I am sure they would heave Cartwright out of the door or bring in a new head of recruitment. Scholes sadly is almost unsackable, however he needs to be put back in his box marked bean counter and kept away from the playing side and recruitment
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Post by Bojan Mackey on Jan 8, 2019 13:11:36 GMT
Cartwright will be the next one out of the door. I hope it can open wide enough.
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Post by danceswithclams on Jan 8, 2019 13:15:07 GMT
I didn’t realise until yesterday that we had a Chief Commercial Manager ? Tony Scholes is a very clever man in the way that he places barriers between himself and any threat to his position as CEO , a Footballing Technical Director & now a Chief Commercial Manager ! can be held accountable before it lands on his doorstep, Most large businesses will have a Chief Commercial Officer that reports directly to the CEO - there's no subterfuge going on here. Stoke's COO is a bloke called Paul Lakin, who joined the club from Wolves (with a good track record) about 5 years ago. The only dealings he has with the footballing side of things concerns harnessing players etc for marketing purposes (kit launches/community schemes/commercial partnerships etc). Still though, if it suits an agenda then by all means use his existence to bash the club further. Appreciate that from the outside it looks are though there are some deep-rooted problems behind the scenes at Stoke but the truth is that none of us really know what goes on, isn't it?
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Post by Malcolm Clarke on Jan 8, 2019 14:00:14 GMT
Sorry but the free travel was paid for via a payment from the FA or somewhere whereby SCFC chose how to spend it???? The ST prices were reported to be a very small percentage of our income based on PL payments, not exactly a pioneering decision to sell 24,000 ST’s at the same price rather than losing ST holders for the sake of a measly increase. Either way Scholes has to hounded out as what’s the point in sacking managers only for this prize idiot to strike yet again. Scholes OUT That's not the whole picture I'm afraid. It's true that there was a PL agreement, promoted by Stoke city and others, for each club to spend a sum on away fans initiatives. It certainly wasn't FA money, but was from within existing PL financial allocations. Some clubs spent it on things like painting the away end, which was of very limited value to travelling fans. Some appeared not to spend anything like the amount they had agreed to, if any at all, and there was very little audit on how clubs spent it. Stoke spent it, and more, on the free away travel for all league games which was, and remains, unique. Stoke City were then a leading light within the PL in supporting the FSF campaign for action on away prices which led to the replacement of that fund by the £30 price cap for all away tickets in the PL, which was a significant development. But to their credit, our club continued with the free travel as well, and have continued to do so even after we were relegated, which I didn't expect and again is unique in the Football League. The ST price freeze has now lasted for a decade. Again, I think this is probably unique, and is certainly to be commended. We have an elected Supporters Council for dialogue with the club. Many clubs don't have that and some have councils or forums where the club chooses or vetoes the members. Whether you think it is used properly and effectively by its members and the fan base who elect them is a separate question but the CEO turns up to every meeting, which you certainly don't get at most clubs. In Anthony Emmerson I think we have one of the best Supporters Liaison Officers in the business, who in my experience is always willing to try to sort problems and complaints. I have no complaints with the service from the ticket office ( which also, unlike some, doesn't charge admin fees or postage for tickets posted out). Like I suspect the large majority of supporters, I do not know the limits of authority and the lines accountability in the area of player recruitment and the respective responsibilities of the Board, the CEO, the Head of Player recruitment and the Chief Finance Officer. Different models apply at different clubs and Football is an unusual industry in that the CEO often does not have managerial control over all activities. So I can't comment on Tony Scholes role and performance in that area, but in terms of the off-field side of the business, in my opinion and experience we have much less to complain about compared with many other clubs.
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Post by djduncanjames on Jan 8, 2019 14:06:23 GMT
Sorry but the free travel was paid for via a payment from the FA or somewhere whereby SCFC chose how to spend it???? The ST prices were reported to be a very small percentage of our income based on PL payments, not exactly a pioneering decision to sell 24,000 ST’s at the same price rather than losing ST holders for the sake of a measly increase. Either way Scholes has to hounded out as what’s the point in sacking managers only for this prize idiot to strike yet again. Scholes OUT I think the PL payment was a one off season they did it and the club absorbed the running cost of it going from then, Yea, was like 200 grand or something i think, remembering back
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Post by riproaringagain on Jan 8, 2019 15:16:38 GMT
Teflon Tone no chamce, if you don’t get the boot for overseeing our last few years transfers you have a job for life
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Post by benjaminbiscuit on Jan 8, 2019 18:06:05 GMT
If any CEO in the Ftse 100 or 250 had presided over the loss of 100m revenue stream , made three failed critical appointments, failed to Ensure proper communication amongst senior managers , presided over £190m of failed investment , lost the engagement of thousands of customers , positioned the business as a media joke , today would be their last day and they’d be incredibly Lucky to have survived this long .
This is the families greatest failure their integrity and commitment beyond reproach but the lack of accountability beyond the manager Pure myopia
There is no mitigating circumstance for the survival of the highest paid director in a business failure as significant as this , indeed many would fall on their sword as a matter of honour
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Post by onefatcopper on Jan 8, 2019 18:13:25 GMT
I didn’t realise until yesterday that we had a Chief Commercial Manager ? Tony Scholes is a very clever man in the way that he places barriers between himself and any threat to his position as CEO , a Footballing Technical Director & now a Chief Commercial Manager ! can be held accountable before it lands on his doorstep, Most large businesses will have a Chief Commercial Officer that reports directly to the CEO - there's no subterfuge going on here. Stoke's COO is a bloke called Paul Lakin, who joined the club from Wolves (with a good track record) about 5 years ago. The only dealings he has with the footballing side of things concerns harnessing players etc for marketing purposes (kit launches/community schemes/commercial partnerships etc). Still though, if it suits an agenda then by all means use his existence to bash the club further. Appreciate that from the outside it looks are though there are some deep-rooted problems behind the scenes at Stoke but the truth is that none of us really know what goes on, isn't it? I understand how businesses operate and I’m sure that Mr Laken is doing a excellent job, my gripe is with Mr Scholes ! As a CEO what does he actually do ? As a customer the IT of Stoke City is stuck in a time warp, we have lost Global official partnerships which with no offence we are trying to replace with the local corner shop, customer communication is a disaster and the actual match day experience is a damp squib ! As CEO the responsibility of recruitment,finance,Human Resources,Infrastructure and staff motivation are all under his wing , you only had to watch the Wolves pre match entertainment to see how far we have fallen behind in something so simple ! Stoke City is in the entertainment industry and as a customer I’m afraid that I’m not being entertained !
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Post by march4 on Jan 8, 2019 18:36:39 GMT
The managerial process is telling us a lot.
Is Moyes linked to Scholes?
Is Jones linked to Cartwright?
If we are interested in either of the above then surely it means that the views of Scholes and/or Cartwright are still valued by the board.
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Post by questionable on Jan 8, 2019 19:13:09 GMT
As much as I despise Scholes, believe me the business side is a disaster from what little I know.
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Post by Malcolm Clarke on Jan 8, 2019 20:29:24 GMT
If any CEO in the Ftse 100 or 250 had presided over the loss of 100m revenue stream , made three failed critical appointments, failed to Ensure proper communication amongst senior managers , presided over £190m of failed investment , lost the engagement of thousands of customers , positioned the business as a media joke , today would be their last day and they’d be incredibly Lucky to have survived this long . This is the families greatest failure their integrity and commitment beyond reproach but the lack of accountability beyond the manager Pure myopia There is no mitigating circumstance for the survival of the highest paid director in a business failure as significant as this , indeed many would fall on their sword as a matter of honour As they say in Parliament, I refer the honourable gentleman to the post I made above. In the areas I mentioned we have been a very good club in recent years, and certainly one which has been proactive and supportive to some of the things the FSF has been working for. I think the analogy with normal FTSE companies is misplaced because of the promotion and relegation system which is the major determinant of lost income. If the world's 20 best CEOs all worked in the Premier League, 3 of them would still "fail" each year on that definition. A lot of the rest is either hyperbole and/or not evidenced. On no reasonable analysis could you call Stoke City a business failure or a media joke. Of course, relegation was a huge disappointment, the managerial appointment didn't work out as planned and quality and value for money in player recruitment is certainly one of those areas where the club has not performed at all well. I have only read a small proportion of the huge volume of posts on the responsibility for recruitment, but I haven't seen clear evidence of knowledge ( as opposed to speculation, prejudice and over-interpretation) of the extent of authority and the lines of management accountability as between the Board, the CEO, the Head of Recruitment, the Team Manager and the Finance Director. So I simply don't know, like I suspect the large majority of posters, however vitriolic, on this and other social media outlets. Football is a strange and unique industry, with different models of responsibility and accountability at different clubs and it is a mistake to assume that normal corporate models are applicable. Football CEOs do not usually have the all embracing authority that their counterparts in the corporate world have. But if you want to learn about clubs which have been really badly run I can introduce you to the fans of Blackpool, Coventry City, Charlton, Leyton Orient, Hull City, Leeds United (until quite recently), Portsmouth ( until the fans took over) and many others.
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Post by davejohnno1 on Jan 8, 2019 22:44:30 GMT
This seasons over ,we need to get things ready and right for next season. Keep the pressure on Scholes and Cartwright now starting Saturday,i don't think we will shift Scholes but Cartwright can be ousted. Might be a good idea for people to actually understand what Cartwrights job role actually is before trying to nail him for other people’s decisions? Maybe you could tell us?
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Post by mickstupp on Jan 8, 2019 22:50:03 GMT
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Post by owdestokie2 on Jan 8, 2019 22:54:47 GMT
If any CEO in the Ftse 100 or 250 had presided over the loss of 100m revenue stream , made three failed critical appointments, failed to Ensure proper communication amongst senior managers , presided over £190m of failed investment , lost the engagement of thousands of customers , positioned the business as a media joke , today would be their last day and they’d be incredibly Lucky to have survived this long . This is the families greatest failure their integrity and commitment beyond reproach but the lack of accountability beyond the manager Pure myopia There is no mitigating circumstance for the survival of the highest paid director in a business failure as significant as this , indeed many would fall on their sword as a matter of honour Shit only goes in one direction when there’s failure
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Post by davejohnno1 on Jan 8, 2019 23:01:37 GMT
So you believe everything you read then? Particularly from a local media outlet that wouldn't dare raise anything controversial about our club? I was kind of hoping you might share your knowledge on the matter.
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Post by mickstupp on Jan 8, 2019 23:09:27 GMT
So you believe everything you read then? Particularly from a local media outlet that wouldn't dare raise anything controversial about our club? I was kind of hoping you might share your knowledge on the matter. I think that’s a reasonable job description yes. Do you personally know any better? Enlighten me....
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Post by benjaminbiscuit on Jan 8, 2019 23:11:16 GMT
If any CEO in the Ftse 100 or 250 had presided over the loss of 100m revenue stream , made three failed critical appointments, failed to Ensure proper communication amongst senior managers , presided over £190m of failed investment , lost the engagement of thousands of customers , positioned the business as a media joke , today would be their last day and they’d be incredibly Lucky to have survived this long . This is the families greatest failure their integrity and commitment beyond reproach but the lack of accountability beyond the manager Pure myopia There is no mitigating circumstance for the survival of the highest paid director in a business failure as significant as this , indeed many would fall on their sword as a matter of honour As they say in Parliament, I refer the honourable gentleman to the post I made above. In the areas I mentioned we have been a very good club in recent years, and certainly one which has been proactive and supportive to some of the things the FSF has been working for. I think the analogy with normal FTSE companies is misplaced because of the promotion and relegation system which is the major determinant of lost income. If the world's 20 best CEOs all worked in the Premier League, 3 of them would still "fail" each year on that definition. A lot of the rest is either hyperbole and/or not evidenced. On no reasonable analysis could you call Stoke City a business failure or a media joke. Of course, relegation was a huge disappointment, the managerial appointment didn't work out as planned and quality and value for money in player recruitment is certainly one of those areas where the club has not performed at all well. I have only read a small proportion of the huge volume of posts on the responsibility for recruitment, but I haven't seen clear evidence of knowledge ( as opposed to speculation, prejudice and over-interpretation) of the extent of authority and the lines of management accountability as between the Board, the CEO, the Head of Recruitment, the Team Manager and the Finance Director. So I simply don't know, like I suspect the large majority of posters, however vitriolic, on this and other social media outlets. Football is a strange and unique industry, with different models of responsibility and accountability at different clubs and it is a mistake to assume that normal corporate models are applicable. Football CEOs do not usually have the all embracing authority that their counterparts in the corporate world have. But if you want to learn about clubs which have been really badly run I can introduce you to the fans of Blackpool, Coventry City, Charlton, Leyton Orient, Hull City, Leeds United (until quite recently), Portsmouth ( until the fans took over) and many others. Malcom i respect your view but on what basis would you call the business anything other than an abject failure over the last three years ,, simply saying it’s bettrr than Coventry isn’t enough . Given the enormous patronage and support of the owners not available in any of the other examples the business has failed miserably and the only ones held to account are the team managers
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Post by TheProletarian on Jan 8, 2019 23:11:58 GMT
Get em gone and let Jones decide who he wants.
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Post by Malcolm Clarke on Jan 8, 2019 23:16:16 GMT
So you believe everything you read then? Particularly from a local media outlet that wouldn't dare raise anything controversial about our club? I was kind of hoping you might share your knowledge on the matter. Further to my previous posts, I think it would be perfectly legitimate business for the Supporters Council to ask the CEO ( who attends all SC meetings) to outline exactly what are the responsibilities and accountabilities of all the various people involved in player recruitment. Doing it face to face with supplementaries if necessary in the body set up for liaison with fans is the right way of doing it, IMHO, and I can't see why Tony S. would have a problem with that - the more so given that interviews have previously been given to the press on it. Of course he won't discuss individual's performance, including his own, in that setting, and neither should he, or details of individual transfers, but clarity on who is responsible for what would be helpful. All we have on here at the moment is far more heat than light, and huge amounts of speculation, assumption and a fair bit of personal abuse.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Jan 8, 2019 23:18:14 GMT
Fuck me, the state of some the Scholes rimming on here. Some Stoke fans fully deserve the past three years we've had if we have another couple the same, it will be this Luton 'patsy for the process' who will take the hit.
Is there anything this goon could do that would make you question his contribution?
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