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Post by amathus on Jan 3, 2019 13:51:58 GMT
It's fair to say that whatever happens with Rowett, he's not the problem with the club. In my opinion, directing all the anger and fury at him is not entirely fair and most of the blame lies with the Board. Whether you like him or not, Rowett is being made a scapegoat for bigger problems that lie elsewhere. A new manager is just going to walk into the same problem. From everything I've read and tried to draw together, there is absolutely zero cohesion between the Manager, Coates family, Scholes and Cartwright that has remained since the end of Pulis' reign. Yes, Rowett certainly hasn't helped himself with some of the comments about the fans and his tactics, but there appears to be a much bigger political problem behind the scenes. I must add, I'm not a massive fan of Rowett's and I'm not leaping to his defence. Even if I wanted him to be a huge success for the club, he's reached the point of no return. Which is still a shame. It seems obvious that Rowett hasn't wanted to use players that have been bought by Scholes/Cartwright and they don't want the manager using or buying his chosen players. There is no cohesion which the board has created (not the manager) which is causing this unrest. Whether that be on footballing matters, transfer policy or manager appointments. If Rowett didn't have these issues, would we find ourselves in a different position? Despite his tactics, I certainly think so. It's these issues that are causing problems in the dressing room and the manager has to pick up the pieces and put out a team to perform on a Saturday. If you've got all this in-fighting and politics going on, how is the manager supposed to do this properly with players taking sides with the manager or Scholes/Cartwright? People talk about the job being too big for Rowett, I just don't think that's the case. He hasn't become a bad manager overnight. He's naively walked into this political s**tstorm and is making the most of a bad hand - even if he's not helping himself sometimes. Rather than venting yet more anger and 'Rowett Out' banners on Saturday, it needs to be aimed at Scholes/Cartwright. Rowett may have to go, but it's time for these 'idiots' to go with him!
Scholes/Cartwright OUT! Which players are those, this is all just unfounded lala land nonsense, with no factual evidence to back it up. Bauer for one. Signed a 5 year deal 1 month after Rowett joins and is nowhere to be seen. Explain that one.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jan 3, 2019 13:56:45 GMT
Which players are those, this is all just unfounded lala land nonsense, with no factual evidence to back it up. Bauer for one. Signed a 5 year deal 1 month after Rowett joins and is nowhere to be seen. Explain that one. Could it not just be that Rowett doesn't rate him, like he didn't rate Will Hughes at Derby? Not his kind of player, see you later son, that kind of thing?
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Post by Veritas on Jan 3, 2019 13:58:29 GMT
Which players are those, this is all just unfounded lala land nonsense, with no factual evidence to back it up. Bauer for one. Signed a 5 year deal 1 month after Rowett joins and is nowhere to be seen. Explain that one. When Bauer signed everyone on here was over the moon at what looked to be a strong statement of intent from the club, The new manager fell out with him and has effectively banished him from the first team squad. Now I don't claim to know the fine detail of what has gone on but it does seem to be a situation of Rowett's own making and at a time when we are hardly blessed with an abundance of effective replacements for Bauer.
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Post by amathus on Jan 3, 2019 14:00:25 GMT
Bauer for one. Signed a 5 year deal 1 month after Rowett joins and is nowhere to be seen. Explain that one. Could it not just be that Rowett doesn't rate him, like he didn't rate Will Hughes at Derby? Not his kind of player, see you later son, that kind of thing? Probably. The point is that the left hand is doing one thing, the right hand the other. Ok it was only a month in Rowett’s tenure, but surely if he didn’t fancy him, he would have not wanted the club to give him a 5 year deal?
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Post by nottsover60 on Jan 3, 2019 14:03:19 GMT
Do you honestly think Rowett was asked about the new contract? To judge whether a player he'd never worked with was worth a pay rise?
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Post by amathus on Jan 3, 2019 14:05:13 GMT
Do you honestly think Rowett was asked about the new contract? To judge whether a player he'd never worked with was worth a pay rise? Fair point. He may not have had a good look at him because of the summer break. You’re probably right.
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Post by Old School Stokie on Jan 3, 2019 14:09:10 GMT
Its no use using the budget or current players wages - that is a millstone which any new manager still will have. You can't just ship out players still in contract or reduce their wages unless there was a relegation clause in there. The only clause Scholes & Cartwright agreed to it appears was the one for Shakiri which allowed him to go for a pittance - open market valuation must be upwards of £30million now.
Whats Shawcross on and the others - the only one I heard taking a pay cut - because they SCFC could - was Butland.
There is deep rooted problems and Rowett is Rowing against the tied with one hand behind his back
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jan 3, 2019 14:09:29 GMT
Could it not just be that Rowett doesn't rate him, like he didn't rate Will Hughes at Derby? Not his kind of player, see you later son, that kind of thing? Probably. The point is that the left hand is doing one thing, the right hand the other. Ok it was only a month in Rowett’s tenure, but surely if he didn’t fancy him, he would have not wanted the club to give him a 5 year deal? I agree, giving those players the new contracts without a new manager's blessing is odd.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jan 3, 2019 14:10:30 GMT
Its no use using the budget or current players wages - that is a millstone which any new manager still will have. You can't just ship out players still in contract or reduce their wages unless there was a relegation clause in there. The only clause Scholes & Cartwright agreed to it appears was the one for Shakiri which allowed him to go for a pittance - open market valuation must be upwards of £30million now. Whats Shawcross on and the others - the only one I heard taking a pay cut - because they SCFC could - was Butland. There is deep rooted problems and Rowett is Rowing against the tied with one hand behind his back How so, when he's had a large budget and got most of the players he wanted?
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Post by nottsover60 on Jan 3, 2019 14:10:34 GMT
Yet we are supposed to believe that Scholes doesn't interfere in which players are signed it's all the manager's decision.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jan 3, 2019 14:13:41 GMT
Yet we are supposed to believe that Scholes doesn't interfere in which players are signed it's all the manager's decision. Go through the list of players we signed and tell us which specific ones. There's Etebo, who else?
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Post by GeneralFaye on Jan 3, 2019 14:14:03 GMT
Rowett is the biggest problem right now. We should've got rid of the other pair in the summer. You only have to look at what's happened at the shit to see what a difference a change in management can do with the same players and structure.
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Post by nottsover60 on Jan 3, 2019 14:24:21 GMT
As I said do you think he made the decisions on the new contracts handed out as soon as he was appointed?I don't know which players were his first choices and nor do you. It took a very long time to get them in if they were. What makes you think Williams and Martina were his first choices? Surely like us he could see that we needed a younger centre back. How do you know that Afobe was his first choice? Was he given a chance to talk to shaqiri? Why did Cameron want out? There are lots of questions I don't know the answers to and I suspect nor do you.
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Post by amathus on Jan 3, 2019 14:27:55 GMT
Bauer was purchased whilst the club was managerless a year ago. The manager is not always choosing the players and we've got an ex-Leek Town Goalkeeper doing it for them.
Who knows how many of Rowett's signings were his or not but it's proven the pizza boys have made buying decisions in the past.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2019 14:29:06 GMT
Was Ramadan a club signing?
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Post by terrorofturfmoor on Jan 3, 2019 14:30:06 GMT
All three (Scholes, Cartwright AND Rowett) have to go!!!
Not one, not two.....ALL FUCKIN THREE!!!
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jan 3, 2019 14:31:35 GMT
As I said do you think he made the decisions on the new contracts handed out as soon as he was appointed?I don't know which players were his first choices and nor do you. It took a very long time to get them in if they were. What makes you think Williams and Martina were his first choices? Surely like us he could see that we needed a younger centre back. How do you know that Afobe was his first choice? Was he given a chance to talk to shaqiri? Why did Cameron want out? There are lots of questions I don't know the answers to and I suspect nor do you. Afobe, Rowett, Scholes and Phillips have all on record stated that Afobe was the man the manager and Phillips wanted. It takes 10 seconds to Google that info. McClean and Clucas were long time Rowett targets that he'd tried to sign at Derby. It's a pretty hefty coincidence if those players were foisted on him, isn't it? He'd worked with Ince before at Derby. He wasn't our first choice (Ritchie was) and Rowett didn't always use him at Derby, but again, the connective tissue there is Rowett nevertheless. Woods, we're told, was someone Rowett was keen on from the word go. I dare say Williams and Martina weren't his first choices, even elite managers don't always get all of their first choices. They have to...radical concept...manage.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jan 3, 2019 14:32:15 GMT
Bauer was purchased whilst the club was managerless a year ago. The manager is not always choosing the players and we've got an ex-Leek Town Goalkeeper doing it for them. Who knows how many of Rowett's signings were his or not but it's proven the pizza boys have made buying decisions in the past. Bauer was spotted by Hughes and Bowen.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jan 3, 2019 14:32:33 GMT
Was Ramadan a club signing? He was a Carto job apparently...
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Post by Gifton on Jan 3, 2019 14:33:03 GMT
I think the problem now goes even higher then this pair of incompetents.
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Post by nottsover60 on Jan 3, 2019 14:34:19 GMT
Good point about Bauer's original signing. Then after six months involved in relegation he is given a new contract ahead of some of our very loyal players. Good for morale?
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Post by berahinosgoals on Jan 3, 2019 14:34:52 GMT
Cartwright took the early plaudits for imbula, played an integral part he said to the papers. couldn't wait to shout it from the rooftops, bit early that was Mark 😆
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Post by nottsover60 on Jan 3, 2019 14:41:11 GMT
I agree that managers can't always get what they want but are you telling me that Williams and Martina were the closest to a young mobile centre half that we could get? If so then we really are incompetent. I'm sure you or me could have found one.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jan 3, 2019 14:41:47 GMT
Good point about Bauer's original signing. Then after six months involved in relegation he is given a new contract ahead of some of our very loyal players. Good for morale? Presumably the new contract was given to Bauer because the club was anxious to retain the players perceived as our better ones in preparing for a promotion push? There’s some logic in it. Doing it without letting the new manager run the rule over him was silly, no question.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jan 3, 2019 14:43:12 GMT
I agree that managers can't always get what they want but are you telling me that Williams and Martina were the closest to a young mobile centre half that we could get? If so then we really are incompetent. I'm sure you or me could have found one. Do we know he wanted a young, mobile centre half? He was reportedly interested in Curtis Davies, who isn’t either of those things. Even Chester couldn’t really be called young. If he wanted a young, mobile right back instead of Martina, he should’ve used one of the two he already had.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2019 14:44:26 GMT
Fair to say the "transfer team" have been awful.
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Post by nottsover60 on Jan 3, 2019 14:51:00 GMT
My point is that we don't know what happened. We don't know which players he asked for. I can't believe that anyone who knows anything about football couldn't see the problem with lack of pace at the back and two centre halves who are great in the air but can be turned inside out. Why add to the stock with something similar in Williams? Where was the left back to cover Pieters? Where is he now - not a whisper yet. You don't need to know much about football to see that one. Who decided to buy Tymon, or sell Muniesa before cover was brought in? A recruitment team should be finding options for a manager not asking who his first choice is.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jan 3, 2019 14:56:37 GMT
My point is that we don't know what happened. We don't know which players he asked for. I can't believe that anyone who knows anything about football couldn't see the problem with lack of pace at the back and two centre halves who are great in the air but can be turned inside out. Why add to the stock with something similar in Williams? Where was the left back to cover Peters? Where is he now - not a whisper yet. You don'need to know much about football to see that one. Who decided to buy Tymon, or sell Muniesa before cover was brought in? A recruitment team should be finding options for a manager not asking who his first choice is. As far as we know they do that though don't they? The manager has his own list, the transfer team supplement it with theirs, and they all have to agree before we make our move. Clearly it's horrendous in operation, but the manager is at the heart of that, not the periphery, with a few notable exceptions. I don't know what Carto does, we've seen nothing to suggest he's adding anything to the process, and as part of that failing team, he should go. I can well believe that Scholes pisses around trying to cut a ha'penny in half pretending to be Daniel Levy and that it might have cost us some of our top targets in the past. I just don't see the evidence that the manager isn't allowed the largest voice in transfer targets though because there's just so much evidence to the absolute contrary.
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Post by amathus on Jan 3, 2019 14:59:57 GMT
Bauer, Jese, Ramadan, Stafylidis, Ndiaye, Wimmer, Etebo, Imbula, Tymon, Shea, Tex (god bless him)
All purchased during the Pizza boys football manager save. Were they the managers choice? I doubt it.
Not to say Rowett hasn't been backed, he clearly has and it's time to go. However, history suggests that the recruitment team have provided some terrible options. No doubt there are a couple of their buys in the squad this season.
All of this points to the whole thing being completely disjointed. 1 minute we appear to penny-pinching over a couple of mill for Bruno, the next we break the transfer record with £18.3m on our worst signing ever.
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Post by nottsover60 on Jan 3, 2019 15:04:55 GMT
Can you believe a manager would not want left back cover? Nobody has answered my question about where it is. Instead we bought a right back no better than we already had and blocking the route of an academy player
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