|
Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jan 3, 2019 15:06:14 GMT
Bauer, Jese, Ramadan, Stafylidis, Ndiaye, Wimmer, Etebo, Imbula, Tymon, Shea, Tex (god bless him) All purchased during the Pizza boys football manager save. Were they the managers choice? I doubt it. Not to say Rowett hasn't been backed, he clearly has and it's time to go. However, history suggests that the recruitment team have provided some terrible options. No doubt there are a couple of their buys in the squad this season. All of this points to the whole thing being completely disjointed. 1 minute we appear to penny-pinching over a couple of mill for Bruno, the next we break the transfer record with £18.3m on our worst signing ever. Bauer was a Hughes/Bowen find. I think N'Diaye was too. We pushed the signings through after they'd gone (I think Bauer was here to complete the paperwork on the actual day of Hughes' sacking) because we needed signings urgently. I think Jese, Wimmer, Imbula were all Hughes signings. They all fit the profile of a Hughes signing.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2019 15:06:17 GMT
Can you believe a manager would not want left back cover? Nobody has answered my question about where it is. Instead we bought a right back no better than we already had and blocking the route of an academy player The manager said the loanee right back covers left back. His fault he hasn't used him there.
|
|
|
Post by crouchpotato1 on Jan 3, 2019 15:07:15 GMT
Can you believe a manager would not want left back cover? Nobody has answered my question about where it is. Instead we bought a right back no better than we already had and blocking the route of an academy player The manager said the loanee right back covers left back. His fault he hasn't used him there. Where Allardyce played him for Everton😮
|
|
|
Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jan 3, 2019 15:10:27 GMT
Can you believe a manager would not want left back cover? Nobody has answered my question about where it is. Instead we bought a right back no better than we already had and blocking the route of an academy player The manager wanted a right back didn't he? Didn't he tell us Clucas was left back cover and that he wasn't a fan of having specialist full back positions on the bench, which is why he's left Erik and Edwards out in recent weeks?
|
|
|
Post by nottsover60 on Jan 3, 2019 15:12:52 GMT
Don't recall that but you may be right. Seems odd if so that he hasn't used Clucas while Peters has been injured. It would have solved the problem of who to drop for Etebo
|
|
|
Post by nottsover60 on Jan 3, 2019 15:26:10 GMT
And if the recruitment team and manager can't agree what then? Does Scholes opinion carry as much weight as the manager's? Does Scholes know any more than you or me which player would fit the manager's team and system?
|
|
|
Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jan 3, 2019 15:29:42 GMT
And if the recruitment team and manager can't agree what then? Does Scholes opinion carry as much weight as the manager's? Does Scholes know any more than you or me which player would fit the manager's team and system? Does Scholes have any say in terms of who we recruit, or is he just the numbers man? Can't imagine he makes any suggestions, presumably he has to be convinced by the manager/Carto to sanction the move with the owners' blessing? Rowett himself has no idea who fits his system if Afobe is anything to go by.
|
|
|
Post by benjaminbiscuit on Jan 3, 2019 15:32:27 GMT
Fair to say the "transfer team" have been awful. They have been a curse in the club since inception of this system and the transfer business is only part of the appalling Job being done off the pitch
|
|
|
Post by sheikhmomo on Jan 3, 2019 15:35:29 GMT
Fair to say the "transfer team" have been awful. They have been a curse in the club since inception of this system and the transfer business is only part of the appalling Job being done off the pitch The process right there for you in black and white.
|
|
|
Post by callas12 on Jan 3, 2019 15:35:32 GMT
I don't claim to know about the inner workings of the club.. Read my text again, I make reference to Rowett and what's affecting him, that I do know.. What you said is ''I know that Rowett is affected by them & is being shackled in doing his job'' When of course you don't know that, what you do know is Rowett is doing a rubbish job and you are surmising what may be causing that. Despite Rowetts failings the internal politics at the club are making his job even harder at a time everyone should be pulling in the same direction. Again I'm not claiming to know the exact make up of the goings on within SCFC but more that Rowett wants out as the job he signed up to isn't what he thought it would be.. Regardless & aside of what I know & who I've heard it from, the whole persona Rowetts giving off is making it clear things at Stoke aren't as they should be. You state Pej isn't in the know, he may not be in the inner circle but he'll know a fair bit about what's going on, everyone knows someone in football that's for sure.
|
|
|
Post by nottsover60 on Jan 3, 2019 15:36:58 GMT
So who exactly is the transfer team who have to come to an agreement with the manager? Just Cartwright a non league goalie suggests who we should buy? I'm told there is no list as at other clubs and we end up in complete impasse because Rowett won't have transfer team's suggestion and they won't have his.
|
|
|
Post by tony1234 on Jan 3, 2019 15:38:49 GMT
I agree! Its irrefutable that these 2 need to be sacked. We don't have insight into the club, but don't need it to deduce this.
Cartwright either exists to adds value to playing squad (in which case he has failed) or he doesn't (in which case he's redundant). His processes and systems have also failed to produce more than Edwards from the youth set up. Players like Arnie were unfit in the PL, others uninterested and demotivated. The squad has had a semblance of shoddiness about it too long; their antics, behaviour - some might have been pretty harmless (like Adam on Talk Sport), but the brand became one of a collective that didn't overly care. (Compare with the Delaps, Huths, et al and it couldn't be more stark)
Scholes either interferes in recruitment of players (in which case he has failed) or he doesn't and just helps picks the senior staff (in which case he and Coates hung on to Hughes too long, chose Lambert and then Rowett) who all failed.
I think its also a pretty hardliner that says Rowett had an even playing field and failed on his own, even after being backed with such funds. No one sorted out Berahinho (which required he hire a coach and have to factor this migraine into his routine); his transfers arrived late with decisions allowed to drag on before action - into late July and beyond when teams should be sorted. He had N'Diaye to sort out, where he was clearly not helped. Plus the plethora of deadwood he couldn't shift - Fletcher, Adam. His best player left. And while he got to keep Allen and Butland, they were about the only plusses.
However, he compounded this situation with a mixed bag of transfer decisions, and overall it proved poor ROI - creating an imbalanced squad where 50m should have sorted out all the problems far better than this. Some was foreseeable too, which makes it particularly unforgivable: Maclean doesn't contribute enough in a front 3 and was never going to. Loanee forwards are often very useful, but he spurned them. Fletcher had past it. Shawx needs replacing. Clucas and Woods on top of Etobo and Allen was inefficient, when jettisoning Cameron. Afobe was the wrong call. Williams was okay and Martina another foreseeable poor decision. Tactics descended into desperation; lack of imagination; players have lost resolve. Yes, he has not done well with his mixed lot- in fact he started slowly and responded to the challenge miserably.
But he was always an appointment of a type: A hardworking, none too overly strategic or technical type, used to getting average Champs teams to over-perform through hard work and attrition. He wasn't this bad at Derby when he chose more forwards, but the choice of his type was all wrong. Stoke needed a lift and a new wave of better thinking. So Scholes (and Coates) are again culpable for a lack of judgement, imagination, strategic vision. Again.
Overall, its just too many bad decisions from all these. Decision making capability is just not good enough - from individuals, from their roles and from the collective. Each time this lot are called on to make a decision, the outcomes are not good enough. I now fear that Rowett will be kept just long enough this window so that Scholes et al can say that there wasn't enough time for the new manager to get in the player(s) he needed.... A bit like last year with Lambert and the missing striker they tried so hard for.
|
|
|
Post by Gary Hackett on Jan 3, 2019 15:40:58 GMT
And if the recruitment team and manager can't agree what then? Does Scholes opinion carry as much weight as the manager's? Does Scholes know any more than you or me which player would fit the manager's team and system? Does Scholes have any say in terms of who we recruit, or is he just the numbers man? This is where people get confused. He's a number cruncher, he deals with the contracts, the terms etc. He may block a signing because he thinks it's not good value for the club and if he feels the numbers don't add up which is fair enough as he's there to make sure the club is stable financially. The recruitment is done between the manager and Cartwright with the manager having the final say.
|
|
|
Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jan 3, 2019 15:41:31 GMT
So who exactly is the transfer team who have to come to an agreement with the manager? Just Cartwright a non league goalie suggests who we should buy? I'm told there is no list as at other clubs and we end up in complete impasse because Rowett won't have transfer team's suggestion and they won't have his. Yet they have had his suggestions? If it's an impasse how did we sign nine players in the summer? Carto and his super-duper collection of scouts presumably make some suggestions to supplement Rowett's. That's how Hughes and Carto himself have said it work - Hughes actually moaned that too much of it was left to him and that Southampton, where it was taken care of more by their transfer team, was an easier system.
|
|
|
Post by nottsover60 on Jan 3, 2019 15:46:28 GMT
I think the man I was talking to was referring to now. It's no secret that we are looking for a centre half and striker and yet I was told on Tuesday they can't agree on targets. This should have been agreed well before the window opened surely. Some clubs managed to get signings lined up to sign this week.
|
|
|
Post by kronkie on Jan 3, 2019 15:47:45 GMT
If these 2 clowns are the main problem I cannot understand why TP and MH haven't come out and said this is where it is all stemming from and not all their fault.
|
|
|
Post by bob670 on Jan 3, 2019 15:48:36 GMT
Tony Scholes should have been sacked after the farcical, embarrassing recruitment of the new manager after Hughes was dismissed. He behaved like Jim Bowen from Bullseye but without the humour. "here is what you could have won" How you can announce a new appointment twice and then not see it through is beyond me. If he wasn’t sure who the next manager was going to be he should have waited until he bloody well was. Incompetent in my eyes and very embarrassing for the Club.
|
|
|
Post by bob670 on Jan 3, 2019 15:51:19 GMT
If these 2 clowns are the main problem I cannot understand why TP and MH haven't come out and said this is where it is all stemming from and not all their fault. Conf Confidentiality agreement and a court appearance probably. (civil court)
|
|
|
Post by nottsover60 on Jan 3, 2019 15:52:19 GMT
Also the man I was talking to says every other club in the premiership has a transfer team who is told by the manager what sort of player they want. The transfer team then scout this type of player, come back with a list + videos and testimonials. The manager then makes his choice probably having gone to watch the player himself. Not surprising then that Hughes complained about how much he had to do. What exactly do our scouting team do if they just supplement the manager's list?
|
|
|
Post by adi on Jan 3, 2019 15:53:44 GMT
Whatever these two have done, they don’t pick the team and tactics. Rowett 100% to blame for what’s happening on the pitch. Exactly. He’s also partly responsible for the attitude and mindset of his players and they ain’t performing
|
|
|
Post by nottsover60 on Jan 3, 2019 15:58:02 GMT
I don't disagree with you that he hasn't done a good enough job but this thread is about Scholes and Cartwright and their roles at the club. Too many people are blaming Rowett as they blamed Hughes without looking at the bigger picture. I would like to wipe the slate clean, get rid of all three so that the new manager does not have the same problems.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2019 15:59:28 GMT
I don't disagree with you that he hasn't done a good enough job but this thread is about Scholes and Cartwright and their roles at the club. Too many people are blaming Rowett as they blamed Hughes without looking at the bigger picture. I would like to wipe the slate clean, get rid of all three so that the new manager does not have the same problems. Hughes as proved himself to be useless over a period of time and not.just with our club.
|
|
|
Post by Mr_DaftBurger on Jan 3, 2019 16:01:07 GMT
Does Scholes have any say in terms of who we recruit, or is he just the numbers man? This is where people get confused. He's a number cruncher, he deals with the contracts, the terms etc. He may block a signing because he thinks it's not good value for the club and if he feels the numbers don't add up which is fair enough as he's there to make sure the club is stable financially. The recruitment is done between the manager and Cartwright with the manager having the final say. So the numbers added up for Imbula, Wimmer, Jese, et al. So who's responsible for the complete abortion, they all turned out to be, and isn't Scholes responsible for sacking said person. Sorry, I forgot, it's all the managers fault and he sacked them!
|
|
|
Post by nottsover60 on Jan 3, 2019 16:01:41 GMT
Lambert complained about the mindset of the players even telling the board who to get rid of. I suspect a lot of the players he was referring to are still there. One thing Rowett should be credited for is a better work ethic and dressing room spirit. Do we as fans help? I think not. Who would have wanted to do their best on New Year's day?
|
|
|
Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jan 3, 2019 16:01:43 GMT
Also the man I was talking to says every other club in the premiership has a transfer team who is told by the manager what sort of player they want. The transfer team then scout this type of player, come back with a list + videos and testimonials. The manager then makes his choice probably having gone to watch the player himself. Not surprising then that Hughes complained about how much he had to do. What exactly do our scouting team do if they just supplement the manager's list? Hang on, are we saying the manager is hamstrung because he has to make his own choices or because he has his own choices and they're ignored?
|
|
|
Post by nottsover60 on Jan 3, 2019 16:05:50 GMT
Yet Hughes gave us some of the best football we've seen recently. Perhaps he just got so exhausted by the situation at the club and the battles he was having to fight, players lack of respect etc just as I suspect is Rowett.
|
|
|
Post by nottsover60 on Jan 3, 2019 16:11:25 GMT
No he is not given the help other clubs give. He has to scout his own players whilst training a team for two matches a week. Read what I said happens at other clubs. Quite often at Stoke he scouts for players, finds who he wants to be told you can't have him. A list of five or six viable targets with videos (not the players own promotional videos) would make the process so much more efficient.
|
|
|
Post by Gary Hackett on Jan 3, 2019 16:12:41 GMT
This is where people get confused. He's a number cruncher, he deals with the contracts, the terms etc. He may block a signing because he thinks it's not good value for the club and if he feels the numbers don't add up which is fair enough as he's there to make sure the club is stable financially. The recruitment is done between the manager and Cartwright with the manager having the final say. So the numbers added up for Imbula, Wimmer, Jese, et al. Well had they had turned out to be good players then the numbers would have added up because the club would have had them on good contracts so they kept their value unlike Shaqiri. It's not Scholes fault the players turned out to be total shite that's down to the people the club employs to deal with recruitment as its their specialist field. Hence why it's down the the manager and the head of recruitment.
|
|
|
Post by questionable on Jan 3, 2019 16:12:51 GMT
It’s so obvious that GR will be gone soon, then as previously mentioned we’ll get a really toss manegerial appointment until the end of the season and an excuse that our new toss manager is surprisingly impressed with the squad he has, so doesn’t need to spend anything either that or the window has closed. Then we’ll all forget about the toxic two until a few more bad results come or way.
|
|
|
Post by nottsover60 on Jan 3, 2019 16:14:22 GMT
Whose fault is it then? Are we blaming the managers for players they don't want not turning into world beaters? And who at the club employs these wonderful scouts? Could it be Scholes?
|
|