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Post by davejohnno1 on Dec 31, 2018 14:00:09 GMT
That run far deeper than the manager.
Wouldn't it be great to be a harmonious club again where everyone is enjoying what we are trying to achieve?
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Post by chamberlain on Dec 31, 2018 14:02:47 GMT
It would be nice to know what problems hes talking about mate
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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2018 14:02:48 GMT
It would be even greater to understand what he's talking about.
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Post by clintonbaptiste on Dec 31, 2018 14:05:21 GMT
It would be nice to know what problems hes talking about mate It would. Many of us want Rowett gone but is getting a new man in papering over the cracks? The bigger picture looks grim as fuck. |
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Post by macarisredarmy on Dec 31, 2018 14:05:36 GMT
He isn't explicit in his reply.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2018 14:07:57 GMT
Scholes
Cartwright
Differences of opinion between Denise and the rest
Recruitment in general
I would have thought that covers what Percy is alluding to.....
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Post by davejohnno1 on Dec 31, 2018 14:08:37 GMT
This is in rowett out thread. Sorry.
Feel free to merge/delete admin
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Post by santy on Dec 31, 2018 14:10:16 GMT
We've only got one shred of evidence about processes at Stoke and how they work because of the conflicting stories that came out.
January 2018 Moritz Bauer was a Mark Hughes signing, the club had already agreed before Hughes left so the club went ahead.
June/July 2018 Moritz Bauer was a Mark Cartwright signing according to discussions with the Sentinel, after being deemed one of the bright prospects after the second half of the season.
The waters are too muddied that anything then said by Scholes or Cartwright with that in mind to take it at face value. Mark Hughes likely isn't allowed to speak, and even if he can how much of what he says can be trusted after all, he has his own name to protect.
There's never really going to be any good faith again involving those two, the best they can hope for is results detract from it.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2018 14:35:57 GMT
Problems are that Peter still calls the shots. All the family have shares in the club and John was supposedly the one to take charge of the club but they all still answer to Peter. He just won’t let go. John isn’t the fondest of Cartwright or Scholes however Peter is a stubborn loyal sod.
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Post by minnierover on Dec 31, 2018 14:39:15 GMT
Percy’s talking nonesense and don’t think he knows anything. The problems do not go beyond the manager. The team is playing dull and boring football down to the manager. The manager signed Afobe for £12m, he’s not good enough and Ince for £10m when there were better wingers wanting to go out on loan from the prem. And worst of all he bought McClean for £6m and gave the useless idiot a 4 year deal. That alone is a sackable offence surely. Meanwhile other clubs who were in an equally bad state also appointed new managers and are doing well, Leeds and Albion to name 2.
So no it’s problems beyond the manager it’s quite simply an inept manager who has bought badly, wasted millions and doesn’t know how to use the good players he’s got.
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Dec 31, 2018 14:39:38 GMT
He isn't explicit in his reply.
Are we certain that John Percy isn't Dave's Views? His answers are about as cryptic as those trotted out by DV.  |
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Post by toppercorner on Dec 31, 2018 14:43:11 GMT
Percy’s talking nonesense and don’t think he knows anything. The problems do not go beyond the manager. The team is playing dull and boring football down to the manager. The manager signed Afobe for £12m, he’s not good enough and Ince for £10m when there were better wingers wanting to go out on loan from the prem. And worst of all he bought McClean for £6m and gave the useless idiot a 4 year deal. That alone is a sackable offence surely. Meanwhile other clubs who were in an equally bad state also appointed new managers and are doing well, Leeds and Albion to name 2. So no it’s problems beyond the manager it’s quite simply an inept manager who has bought badly, wasted millions and doesn’t know how to use the good players he’s got. There is definitely a lack of vision from the higher rungs of the club. I do however think that Afobe is a great player who will score more given the service, and that Ince has been one of our best players this season. I also think Woods will come good again under new stewardship. McClean is pretty shit, and his contract beggars belief. Clucas, I'm still undecided. |
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Post by davejohnno1 on Dec 31, 2018 14:47:45 GMT
Problems are that Peter still calls the shots. All the family have shares in the club and John was supposedly the one to take charge of the club but they all still answer to Peter. He just won’t let go. John isn’t the fondest of Cartwright or Scholes however Peter is a stubborn loyal sod. I'm afraid that is bullshit. Jon Coates is best friends with mark Cartwright and has been since their school days. Try again! |
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Post by Davef on Dec 31, 2018 14:51:14 GMT
We've only got one shred of evidence about processes at Stoke and how they work because of the conflicting stories that came out. January 2018 Moritz Bauer was a Mark Hughes signing, the club had already agreed before Hughes left so the club went ahead. June/July 2018 Moritz Bauer was a Mark Cartwright signing according to discussions with the Sentinel, after being deemed one of the bright prospects after the second half of the season. The waters are too muddied that anything then said by Scholes or Cartwright with that in mind to take it at face value. Mark Hughes likely isn't allowed to speak, and even if he can how much of what he says can be trusted after all, he has his own name to protect. There's never really going to be any good faith again involving those two, the best they can hope for is results detract from it. Didn't Eddie allude to the fact that Bauer was a Bowen find in the after match Man Utd interview? |
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Post by Fred Merger on Dec 31, 2018 14:54:06 GMT
Problems are that Peter still calls the shots. All the family have shares in the club and John was supposedly the one to take charge of the club but they all still answer to Peter. He just won’t let go. John isn’t the fondest of Cartwright or Scholes however Peter is a stubborn loyal sod. I'm afraid that is bullshit. Jon Coates is best friends with mark Cartwright and has been since their school days. Try again! The old school tie ay Dave,that would explain why he's still got a job. Sup up ya beer and collect your fags! |
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Post by davejohnno1 on Dec 31, 2018 14:54:43 GMT
We've only got one shred of evidence about processes at Stoke and how they work because of the conflicting stories that came out. January 2018 Moritz Bauer was a Mark Hughes signing, the club had already agreed before Hughes left so the club went ahead. June/July 2018 Moritz Bauer was a Mark Cartwright signing according to discussions with the Sentinel, after being deemed one of the bright prospects after the second half of the season. The waters are too muddied that anything then said by Scholes or Cartwright with that in mind to take it at face value. Mark Hughes likely isn't allowed to speak, and even if he can how much of what he says can be trusted after all, he has his own name to protect. There's never really going to be any good faith again involving those two, the best they can hope for is results detract from it. Didn't Eddie allude to the fact that Bauer was a Bowen find in the after match Man Utd interview? He did then carto claimed credit for it in the summer. |
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Post by berahinosgoals on Dec 31, 2018 15:00:11 GMT
Don't let something little like that get in the way of a good Rowett bashing, hey
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Post by benjaminbiscuit on Dec 31, 2018 15:05:36 GMT
Some of us have said for years any manager is a symptom not the root cause
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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2018 15:06:04 GMT
Problems are that Peter still calls the shots. All the family have shares in the club and John was supposedly the one to take charge of the club but they all still answer to Peter. He just won’t let go. John isn’t the fondest of Cartwright or Scholes however Peter is a stubborn loyal sod. I'm afraid that is bullshit. Jon Coates is best friends with mark Cartwright and has been since their school days. Try again! Your entitled to whatever you think. Try again |
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Post by cobhamstokey on Dec 31, 2018 15:11:52 GMT
The impression I get from previous posts is that Peter isn’t as much the problem and that it’s more his son.
I think the photo with Coates jr, Scholes and Rowett says it all.
Divisions at the top perhaps?
Guesswork but I can’t think of anything else.
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Post by berahinosgoals on Dec 31, 2018 15:15:51 GMT
Tony scholes is on the dust?
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Post by cousindupree on Dec 31, 2018 15:19:06 GMT
I'm afraid that is bullshit. Jon Coates is best friends with mark Cartwright and has been since their school days. Try again! Your entitled to whatever you think. Try again He is actually 100% correct. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2018 15:20:25 GMT
I'm afraid that is bullshit. Jon Coates is best friends with mark Cartwright and has been since their school days. Try again! Your entitled to whatever you think. Try again It's true though fella..... |
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Post by davejohnno1 on Dec 31, 2018 15:21:24 GMT
The impression I get from previous posts is that Peter isn’t as much the problem and that it’s more his son. I think the photo with Coates jr, Scholes and Rowett says it all. Divisions at the top perhaps? Guesswork but I can’t think of anything else. I share that view. Peter has always left the manager to manage and supported as best he can. I had the impression from the outset of Coates jnr involvement and the "football expertise" he was said to bring would maybe see him in a more interfering role. Whether that is right or wrong I've no idea. |
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Post by berahinosgoals on Dec 31, 2018 15:21:46 GMT
Jobs for the boys
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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2018 15:22:14 GMT
Your entitled to whatever you think. Try again It's true though fella..... Only going by what the feeling is. John is far from happy with how the club is being ran. Denise doesn’t get involved and Peter calls all the shots. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2018 15:23:54 GMT
It's true though fella..... Only going by what the feeling is. John is far from happy with how the club is being ran. Denise doesn’t get involved and Peter calls all the shots. Fair enough mate.... |
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Post by Bullseye on Dec 31, 2018 15:25:03 GMT
Could these extensive problems he's alluding to, be two things we're all widely aware of already:
1) Rowett is John's pick, John has started to assume the reins of control and so to discuss so soon the prospect of dismissing John's first managerial appointment, who came in at great expense, is not only politically sensitive but also just plain awkward.
2) The recruitment process has been so unsuccessful on basically every front for far too long and nobody (from an external viewpoint) appears to have carried the can for that other than Mark Hughes, which is quite blatantly only half the story.
Correct me if I've missed anything but Percy won't be suggesting anything more revolutionary than that, will he?
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Post by tony1234 on Dec 31, 2018 15:32:33 GMT
Piecing together everything:-
- Coates runs the ship, but is arrogant and become increasingly deluded (evidenced by stunning comments over past 1-2 years)
- Cartwright and Scholes are the yes men; bag carriers and fall guys. (or why else would 2 of such low calibre and devastating failure keep their jobs?)
- Coates became bitter at player power/ the modern game. He saw prima donnas bought for fortunes and fail. He saw Stoke thrashed too often. Eventually Highes paid
- New managers scouted. O'Neill said, "you need a total overhaul, your squad is poor and player choice dysfunctional. I'd need control." Lambert said, "whatever you want boss, I'll do it. Your players are great already."
- Lambert installed a bit of pride. Relegation came. The shock caused entrenchment. There were "lessons learned". But not that the culture was archaic, that the top management didn't have the expertis....
-.... but rather we were buying the wrong sort of player. Those who didn't try. Fancy foreigners on big wage packets who didn't give a toss: Jese, ECM, Wimmer, et al
- We need a proven earthly manager. Someone who will fit the Stoke way. Someone Coates is comfortable with; man's man. Coates said, "this is the direction we are going in now son: You onboard." Rowett said, "yes Gov".
- "And im not bloody well chucking everything away that i've spent. There's a player in Berahinho. Bring him out. " Rowett said, "erm, yes Gov... i'll need help though." Coates replied, "Whatever. Just do it"
- We bought (and kept) our loyal triers: Shawx, Fletcher, Joined by Etobo, Woods, Clucas, Maclean
- A dash of creative flair added: Afobe and Ince.
- We didn't do business early, cos that's how you get stung. Always getting stung, are Stoke. That had to stop.
- We don't go near loans for those pretty boys like Abrahm or Barnes. Fancy dan idea. Young bucks above their station, paid too much. Cost too much. We need to be prudent now. Triers, Gary. Triers.
- 10 games in - post Wigan perhaps. "Gary, I don't care what you do, but the defeats need to stop. I'm stick of seeing us concede 3 goals a game. That's why you were brought. I want effort and discipline.". Gary: "yes boss".
- Entrenchment. Discipline. Stubborness. Drop top scorer. Play Berahinho. Hang on to narrow wins.
- Paddle like fury to stay afloat. Lots of splashing. Its ugly. But at least we are afloat.
- But from a few fans who saw it early, most grow to see it. - That's much the sum of what they are going to get now. Splashing. Chest beating rhetoric. Arms flailing to keep afloat somewhere in the middle.
And that's where we are. I do believe everyone is trying.
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Post by Absolution on Dec 31, 2018 15:33:09 GMT
The process is now 6 years old. It's not really for supporters to know all the inner workings of their football club, but it's really telling to me that after all those years, we still don't know whose responsible for what. In a rock solid, working process, we'd know.
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