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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2019 13:19:10 GMT
He's made a mess of it so far but we're not going up this season whoever we get in, and we're not going down either. Give him some time to buck his ideas up and if we're still as bad come the end of the season then move him on. It's been an awful season so far but I don't see it getting any better if we sack the manager, last season is the perfect example of that. Whoever we replace him with will face the same problems. I take it you didn’t witness the abuse he got from thousands of his own fans in the last game? His position is untenable. I witnessed it, and I thought the abuse Rowett and the team got from some of our fans was disgusting. He has been here 8 months give or take, and he has to turn around a club that has been in decline for 3+ years. The best players from that squad of 3 years ago have either left or their ability has deteriorated to the point where they are actually doing us more harm than good. He has had one transfer window to clear out some of the deadwood when in reality it's going to take 3 or 4 windows, yes he was backed with the big signings of Afobe and Ince, McClean and Clucas too to a lesser extent, but we haven't had the sort of revolution needed to completely turn our fortunes around. The biggest problem he's had is the tag of 'favourites' that people put on us at the start of the season, which in reality is ludicrous when we all know we've been on a massive downward spiral for years and the fact that this is one of the most competitive leagues in the world. We were truly unprepared at the start of this season, part of that is down to Rowett but the board must be held accountable too. As with Hughes last season, there far more to our downfall than the manager, but why not just sack him and all these problems will go away? put all the blame on Rowett, and Lambert, and Hughes before him, and Pulis before that. If we turn into one of these clubs that sacks their manager at the first sign of trouble we will be playing in the lower leagues for a very long time.
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Rowett In
Jan 4, 2019 13:29:16 GMT
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Post by jontimmis on Jan 4, 2019 13:29:16 GMT
I suppose we’d better tell Watford there doing it all wrong!
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jan 4, 2019 13:31:45 GMT
I take it you didn’t witness the abuse he got from thousands of his own fans in the last game? His position is untenable. I witnessed it, and I thought the abuse Rowett and the team got from some of our fans was disgusting. He has been here 8 months give or take, and he has to turn around a club that has been in decline for 3+ years. The best players from that squad of 3 years ago have either left or their ability has deteriorated to the point where they are actually doing us more harm than good. He has had one transfer window to clear out some of the deadwood when in reality it's going to take 3 or 4 windows, yes he was backed with the big signings of Afobe and Ince, McClean and Clucas too to a lesser extent, but we haven't had the sort of revolution needed to completely turn our fortunes around. The biggest problem he's had is the tag of 'favourites' that people put on us at the start of the season, which in reality is ludicrous when we all know we've been on a massive downward spiral for years and the fact that this is one of the most competitive leagues in the world. We were truly unprepared at the start of this season, part of that is down to Rowett but the board must be held accountable too. As with Hughes last season, there far more to our downfall than the manager, but why not just sack him and all these problems will go away? put all the blame on Rowett, and Lambert, and Hughes before him, and Pulis before that. If we turn into one of these clubs that sacks their manager at the first sign of trouble we will be playing in the lower leagues for a very long time. The biggest problem he’s had is that he’s clinging to tactics that patently aren’t working and is either too thick or too stubborn to change them.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2019 13:33:44 GMT
I suppose we’d better tell Watford there doing it all wrong! 12 managers in 10 years, it's working for them at the moment - but if they continue replacing the manager every season it will eventually catch up with them.
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Post by Northy on Jan 4, 2019 13:37:54 GMT
I take it you didn’t witness the abuse he got from thousands of his own fans in the last game? His position is untenable. He has had one transfer window to clear out some of the deadwood when in reality it's going to take 3 or 4 windows, yes he was backed with the big signings of Afobe and Ince, McClean and Clucas too to a lesser extent, Youve missed out Woods, another £6m to add to Macleans £6m, Clucas, £6m, Ince £10m, Afobe £12m, that's £40m before the 2 loan signings from Everton, he has an England goalkeeper in goal, and other decent players available, which other Championship manager has been backed like that? He should be doing a lot better than what he has been doing.
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Post by jontimmis on Jan 4, 2019 13:40:56 GMT
I suppose we’d better tell Watford there doing it all wrong! 12 managers in 10 years, it's working for them at the moment - but if they continue replacing the manager every season it will eventually catch up with them. Will it!? What’s this based on? They maybe the exception to the rule, but they look more of a premiership club every year that goes by. Solid, creative. I do think Gracia will be in charge for a little longer than most. But who knows. The mafiaoso that manage Watford are a lot more decisive than our bunch of clowns.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jan 4, 2019 13:41:47 GMT
I suppose we’d better tell Watford there doing it all wrong! 12 managers in 10 years, it's working for them at the moment - but if they continue replacing the manager every season it will eventually catch up with them. Or maybe it won’t? Sticking with the wrong one for too long is just as bad. Stability doesn’t happen by magic on its own with time, you have to have the right man in charge. There’s no suggestion whatsoever Rowett is that man.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2019 14:07:01 GMT
12 managers in 10 years, it's working for them at the moment - but if they continue replacing the manager every season it will eventually catch up with them. Or maybe it won’t? Sticking with the wrong one for too long is just as bad. Stability doesn’t happen by magic on its own with time, you have to have the right man in charge. There’s no suggestion whatsoever Rowett is that man. I completely agree on the showing so far we have seen no evidence he is the man for the job, but the board saw something about him to have confidence in him in the first place (as did many on here who were gutted when we didn't get him this time last year). I'd give him until the end of the season as a minimum, if nothing improves then he goes - but half a season isn't enough to judge him on.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jan 4, 2019 14:16:31 GMT
Or maybe it won’t? Sticking with the wrong one for too long is just as bad. Stability doesn’t happen by magic on its own with time, you have to have the right man in charge. There’s no suggestion whatsoever Rowett is that man. I completely agree on the showing so far we have seen no evidence he is the man for the job, but the board saw something about him to have confidence in him in the first place (as did many on here who were gutted when we didn't get him this time last year). I'd give him until the end of the season as a minimum, if nothing improves then he goes - but half a season isn't enough to judge him on. Why not? What's going to change?
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Post by geoff321 on Jan 4, 2019 14:27:26 GMT
I completely agree on the showing so far we have seen no evidence he is the man for the job, but the board saw something about him to have confidence in him in the first place (as did many on here who were gutted when we didn't get him this time last year). I'd give him until the end of the season as a minimum, if nothing improves then he goes - but half a season isn't enough to judge him on. Why not? What's going to change? The Board didn't sack Hughes Rob when he won just 6 games in 26 in his first season, and had won just 1 game in his last 5.
Did things improve in the next 12 ?
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jan 4, 2019 14:40:47 GMT
Why not? What's going to change? The Board didn't sack Hughes Rob when he won just 6 games in 26 in his first season, and had won just 1 game in his last 5. Did things improve in the next 12 ?
There were signs in the performances that hinted at promise Geoff. Not something you'd know about given you never actually watch any games. It was appreciated that Hughes was changing slowly how we play and there'd been enough good stuff to persevere with. He also wasn't given much to spend. Rowett's been given loads to spend and there really hasn't been any of that promise shown.
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Post by geoff321 on Jan 4, 2019 14:53:31 GMT
The Board didn't sack Hughes Rob when he won just 6 games in 26 in his first season, and had won just 1 game in his last 5. Did things improve in the next 12 ?
There were signs in the performances that hinted at promise Geoff. Not something you'd know about given you never actually watch any games. It was appreciated that Hughes was changing slowly how we play and there'd been enough good stuff to persevere with. He also wasn't given much to spend. Rowett's been given loads to spend and there really hasn't been any of that promise shown. Hasn't he achieved 3 play offs and turned Birmingham City round, that doesn't suggest to me he's inept.
Remember also David Moyes tends to be a slow starter, how long would you give him to reach the standard you want?
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Post by Pugsley on Jan 4, 2019 14:53:52 GMT
Why not? What's going to change? The Board didn't sack Hughes Rob when he won just 6 games in 26 in his first season, and had won just 1 game in his last 5.
Did things improve in the next 12 ?
In the PL we were relatively small fry with a small budget compared to Citeh etc playing teams packed with top talent. In the Championship we have spent the most money, paying the most money and playing teams packed with total dross. Your comparison does not really ermmmm compare.
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Rowett In
Jan 4, 2019 14:55:23 GMT
via mobile
Post by adamsson on Jan 4, 2019 14:55:23 GMT
Why not? What's going to change? The Board didn't sack Hughes Rob when he won just 6 games in 26 in his first season, and had won just 1 game in his last 5. Did things improve in the next 12 ?
The difference was Hughes was in the premiership where the target was survival. Rowett is in the Championship where the target is promotion
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Post by Pretty Little Boother on Jan 4, 2019 15:02:29 GMT
If he's not taking us up and we won't go down without him then it's pointless keeping him.
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Post by geoff321 on Jan 4, 2019 15:06:24 GMT
The Board didn't sack Hughes Rob when he won just 6 games in 26 in his first season, and had won just 1 game in his last 5. Did things improve in the next 12 ?
The difference was Hughes was in the premiership where the target was survival. Rowett is in the Championship where the target is promotion Do you accept that becoming the manager of a team that has been relegated is generally difficult?
Or do you think that because a load of money has been given to Rowett he should have no problems in getting us promoted at the first time of asking?
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Rowett In
Jan 4, 2019 15:09:43 GMT
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Post by jontimmis on Jan 4, 2019 15:09:43 GMT
What do you think Geoff?
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jan 4, 2019 15:14:12 GMT
There were signs in the performances that hinted at promise Geoff. Not something you'd know about given you never actually watch any games. It was appreciated that Hughes was changing slowly how we play and there'd been enough good stuff to persevere with. He also wasn't given much to spend. Rowett's been given loads to spend and there really hasn't been any of that promise shown. Hasn't he achieved 3 play offs and turned Birmingham City round, that doesn't suggest to me he's inept. Remember also David Moyes tends to be a slow starter, how long would you give him to reach the standard you want?
Rowett's reached the Championship play offs once, and even then wasn't necessarily the universal darling of the masses in the process. With Moyes, again, it would depend wouldn't it? If you could see what he was trying to achieve and there were promising signs in the performances, then he'd rightly be given time. If you couldn't, and he was producing turgid fare that would send a glass eye to sleep and playing timid, ineffective football despite considerable resources, then a lot less. Which performances have impressed you Geoff? You'd be your player of the season so far? What do you think of the 4-3-3? Who would you start up front? Would you play one striker or two?
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Post by geoff321 on Jan 4, 2019 15:22:02 GMT
Hasn't he achieved 3 play offs and turned Birmingham City round, that doesn't suggest to me he's inept. Remember also David Moyes tends to be a slow starter, how long would you give him to reach the standard you want?
Rowett's reached the Championship play offs once, and even then wasn't necessarily the universal darling of the masses in the process. With Moyes, again, it would depend wouldn't it? If you could see what he was trying to achieve and there were promising signs in the performances, then he'd rightly be given time. If you couldn't, and he was producing turgid fare that would send a glass eye to sleep and playing timid, ineffective football despite considerable resources, then a lot less. Which performances have impressed you Geoff? You'd be your player of the season so far? What do you think of the 4-3-3? Who would you start up front? Would you play one striker or two? When you sit at your computer Rob, do you ever think to yourself I could manage Stoke City better than these clowns we keep employing?
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Post by geoff321 on Jan 4, 2019 15:29:59 GMT
I accept Jon there are thousands of Stoke fans who are not happy with either the results or the style of play, but I think 26 games is not long enough to judge Rowett.
His record, if nothing else, suggests he could take us up given time.
I think for sure he knows he's on his way out, the fact that we appear to be trying to recruit a guy who is 12 months from drawing his old age pension, and another guy who may only want to join us because he has no other offers doesn't especially excite me.
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Post by adamsson on Jan 4, 2019 15:45:45 GMT
I think you are on your own on this Geoff.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jan 4, 2019 15:52:58 GMT
Rowett's reached the Championship play offs once, and even then wasn't necessarily the universal darling of the masses in the process. With Moyes, again, it would depend wouldn't it? If you could see what he was trying to achieve and there were promising signs in the performances, then he'd rightly be given time. If you couldn't, and he was producing turgid fare that would send a glass eye to sleep and playing timid, ineffective football despite considerable resources, then a lot less. Which performances have impressed you Geoff? You'd be your player of the season so far? What do you think of the 4-3-3? Who would you start up front? Would you play one striker or two? When you sit at your computer Rob, do you ever think to yourself I could manage Stoke City better than these clowns we keep employing? No not really Geoff. Should fans not have opinions about anything? Fancy having a bash at the questions I asked you?
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Post by Pugsley on Jan 4, 2019 15:53:35 GMT
I accept Jon there are thousands of Stoke fans who are not happy with either the results or the style of play, but I think 26 games is not long enough to judge Rowett.
His record, if nothing else, suggests he could take us up given time.
I think for sure he knows he's on his way out, the fact that we appear to be trying to recruit a guy who is 12 months from drawing his old age pension, and another guy who may only want to join us because he has no other offers doesn't especially excite me.
His record suggest completely the opposite.
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Post by Edward Tattsyrup on Jan 4, 2019 16:00:20 GMT
The difference was Hughes was in the premiership where the target was survival. Rowett is in the Championship where the target is promotion Do you accept that becoming the manager of a team that has been relegated is generally difficult? Or do you think that because a load of money has been given to Rowett he should have no problems in getting us promoted at the first time of asking? Geoff, we should be performing better than we are and we should certainly be capable of attaining a top 6 place as the board have stated. as we stand that looks beyond us and that's before you take into account Rowett's poundland Mourinho press conferences and post match interviews.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2019 16:03:49 GMT
Hasn't he achieved 3 play offs and turned Birmingham City round, that doesn't suggest to me he's inept. Remember also David Moyes tends to be a slow starter, how long would you give him to reach the standard you want?
Rowett's reached the Championship play offs once, and even then wasn't necessarily the universal darling of the masses in the process. With Moyes, again, it would depend wouldn't it? If you could see what he was trying to achieve and there were promising signs in the performances, then he'd rightly be given time. If you couldn't, and he was producing turgid fare that would send a glass eye to sleep and playing timid, ineffective football despite considerable resources, then a lot less. Which performances have impressed you Geoff? You'd be your player of the season so far? What do you think of the 4-3-3? Who would you start up front? Would you play one striker or two? Player of the season - Woods / Allen / Pieters, nobody has been consistently good 4-3-3 - Complete gash, I have no idea why he keeps reverting to this when we have no decent wingers. and I've never considered it a good formation to begin with as it leaves the midfield too exposed. I'd play a 4-3-1-2 or a 4-2-3-1, Afobe and Berahino would definitely both be in the team. I'd also play Bauer at RB ...but real life isn't like champ manager! Rowett has made many mistakes but I still think he can turn it around, he generally sticks by his signings - the trouble is the majority of the squad are not his signings. If the likes of Bojan, Adam, Bauer, Diouf, Fletcher etc are not going to play then we really should have replaced them in the summer, the reality is they are on contracts that were signed pre Rowett's time here and perhaps nobody was willing to take them - so they couldn't be shipped out and couldn't be replaced. It's easy to say his subs are awful but we haven't got enough players in the squad who Rowett has confidence in to bring on and change a game, perhaps he wasn't aware just how much deadwood we had in our squad. In hindsight perhaps he wouldn't have taken the job. Whoever comes in next will either have to get a tune out of these players (and many have tried with Bojan) or find someone willing to take them off our wage bill so they can be replaced with players the manager actually wants. Whether it was Moyes, Allardyce, O'Neill or whoever else they would face these same problems, thats why I think giving Rowett the January window and the rest of a season at a minimum is reasonable. But then I'd probably have kept Lambert in the summer, and maybe I'd even have kept Hughes before him too. Maybe my expectations are too low, but I've been a Stoke fan for over three decades and I've seen times a lot worse than they are today.
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Post by Pretty Little Boother on Jan 4, 2019 16:04:58 GMT
Rowett's reached the Championship play offs once, and even then wasn't necessarily the universal darling of the masses in the process. With Moyes, again, it would depend wouldn't it? If you could see what he was trying to achieve and there were promising signs in the performances, then he'd rightly be given time. If you couldn't, and he was producing turgid fare that would send a glass eye to sleep and playing timid, ineffective football despite considerable resources, then a lot less. Which performances have impressed you Geoff? You'd be your player of the season so far? What do you think of the 4-3-3? Who would you start up front? Would you play one striker or two? When you sit at your computer Rob, do you ever think to yourself I could manage Stoke City better than these clowns we keep employing? Totally irrelevant. Extend the same logic to politics. Do you ever realistically think you could run the country better than experienced officials? No? So why vote in elections then?
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Post by geoff321 on Jan 4, 2019 16:08:31 GMT
I think you are on your own on this Geoff. Probably, but nevertheless I would keep Rowett untill the end of this season and then review his performance over 46 games.
If his performance is not good enough I would draw up a shortlist of potential managers, foreign and British and try and get someone who is relatively young, whose career is on the up, and has demonstrated the ablity to get the best out of players of different ablity.
It's a chance maybe for a fresh start with a manager with new ideas, perhaps it's time for a foreign manager and see where that takes us.
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Post by crownmeking on Jan 4, 2019 16:08:51 GMT
Trying to make a case for Rowett to stay? ... Pissing in the wind.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jan 4, 2019 16:12:49 GMT
Rowett's reached the Championship play offs once, and even then wasn't necessarily the universal darling of the masses in the process. With Moyes, again, it would depend wouldn't it? If you could see what he was trying to achieve and there were promising signs in the performances, then he'd rightly be given time. If you couldn't, and he was producing turgid fare that would send a glass eye to sleep and playing timid, ineffective football despite considerable resources, then a lot less. Which performances have impressed you Geoff? You'd be your player of the season so far? What do you think of the 4-3-3? Who would you start up front? Would you play one striker or two? Player of the season - Woods / Allen / Pieters, nobody has been consistently good 4-3-3 - Complete gash, I have no idea why he keeps reverting to this when we have no decent wingers. and I've never considered it a good formation to begin with as it leaves the midfield too exposed. I'd play a 4-3-1-2 or a 4-2-3-1, Afobe and Berahino would definitely both be in the team. I'd also play Bauer at RB ...but real life isn't like champ manager! Rowett has made many mistakes but I still think he can turn it around, he generally sticks by his signings - the trouble is the majority of the squad are not his signings. If the likes of Bojan, Adam, Bauer, Diouf, Fletcher etc are not going to play then we really should have replaced them in the summer, the reality is they are on contracts that were signed pre Rowett's time here and perhaps nobody was willing to take them - so they couldn't be shipped out and couldn't be replaced. It's easy to say his subs are awful but we haven't got enough players in the squad who Rowett has confidence in to bring on and change a game, perhaps he wasn't aware just how much deadwood we had in our squad. In hindsight perhaps he wouldn't have taken the job. Whoever comes in next will either have to get a tune out of these players (and many have tried with Bojan) or find someone willing to take them off our wage bill so they can be replaced with players the manager actually wants. Whether it was Moyes, Allardyce, O'Neill or whoever else they would face these same problems, thats why I think giving Rowett the January window and the rest of a season at a minimum is reasonable. But then I'd probably have kept Lambert in the summer, and maybe I'd even have kept Hughes before him too. Maybe my expectations are too low, but I've been a Stoke fan for over three decades and I've seen times a lot worse than they are today. That says a lot about his instincts though doesn't it, if we have a small amount of game changers on the bench and he ignores them continually in favour of a 38-year-old Crouch? That's a poor reflection on the manager. I really don't see this bleak picture that he inherited, yes the team was in a losing habit but there's enough talent there, especially with his budget, to have got more out of this team. It's fine talking about the players the manager actually wants, but how many of his signings have impressed you so far?
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Post by geoff321 on Jan 4, 2019 16:19:24 GMT
Do you accept that becoming the manager of a team that has been relegated is generally difficult? Or do you think that because a load of money has been given to Rowett he should have no problems in getting us promoted at the first time of asking? Geoff, we should be performing better than we are and we should certainly be capable of attaining a top 6 place as the board have stated. as we stand that looks beyond us and that's before you take into account Rowett's poundland Mourinho press conferences and post match interviews. I agree Edward we should.
Nice guys don't tend to make good managers, so I've no real problem with the bit of arrogance Rowett tends to display or his little swipe at the fans. Managers take enormous insults and personal abuse from fans, it's understandable that sometimes they lose their cool.
My point is that Rowett has only been given 26 games, I just don't think that's long enough and so much for the owners comments that we like to give our managers time to prove themselves.
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