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Post by metalhead on Nov 17, 2018 14:48:33 GMT
It's like a while back when someone had the nerve to point out that white, working class boys were falling behind in education. I remember the absolute derision he was greeted with, because he wanted it addressed. I understand the point you are making entirely. Who is this 'someone'???....and where is this 'derision'??? He has a point though, even if you don't agree with it. When a minority falls behind for some reason, we go looking for answers why, don't we? Those reasons may not actually exist and may simply be a result of cyclicism but we endeavor to blame it on the majority which 9/10 is working class and white. We blame it on racism, or sexism.... We blame it on institutional prejudice etc etc. However, as of 2018, we're finally in a situation where the young Asian community now generally outperform most working class white kids, and women are absolutely killing it at University compared to men. So where's the outrage? Why aren't we trying to explain how institutional prejudice is preventing white kids from doing well? We don't. Hence my point. There is not a whole lot of support for failing white kids, other than your own school and its performance. Just like there's no support network for white male adults. Like I said, opinions are everywhere and this is mine. I'm left wing, but I am speaking honestly and openly. Let's see how long it is, before people try to shut my offensive opinions down.
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Post by trickydicky73 on Nov 17, 2018 14:48:54 GMT
It's like a while back when someone had the nerve to point out that white, working class boys were falling behind in education. I remember the absolute derision he was greeted with, because he wanted it addressed. I understand the point you are making entirely. Who is this 'someone'???....and where is this 'derision'??? You immediately disbelieve me, then? I forget his name, but he was on a show with Nicky Campbell and he was pilloried by black women in the audience for pointing out that another ethnicity was doing particularly badly. Metal was pointing out that unless you fit into a minority, you get overlooked.
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Post by trickydicky73 on Nov 17, 2018 14:52:14 GMT
Who is this 'someone'???....and where is this 'derision'??? He has a point though, even if you don't agree with it. When a minority falls behind for some reason, we go looking for answers why, don't we? Those reasons may not actually exist and may simply be a result of cyclicism but we endeavor to blame it on the majority which 9/10 is working class and white. We blame it on racism, or sexism.... We blame it on institutional prejudice etc etc. However, as of 2018, we're finally in a situation where the young Asian community now generally outperform most working class white kids, and women are absolutely killing it at University compared to men. So where's the outrage? Why aren't we trying to explain how institutional prejudice is preventing white kids from doing well? We don't. Hence my point. There is not a whole lot of support for failing white kids, other than your own school and its performance. Just like there's no support network for white male adults. Like I said, opinions are everywhere and this is mine. I'm left wing, but I am speaking honestly and openly. Let's see how long it is, before people try to shut my offensive opinions down. It's bizarre to me that your stance is even questionable!
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Post by metalhead on Nov 17, 2018 14:56:39 GMT
Who is this 'someone'???....and where is this 'derision'??? You immediately disbelieve me, then? I forget his name, but he was on a show with Nicky Campbell and he was pilloried by black women in the audience for pointing out that another ethnicity was doing particularly badly. Metal was pointing out that unless you fit into a minority, you get overlooked. I think I know of the debate you are talking about and the man was Martin Daubney. He put his points across superbly and Nicky Campbell was a complete tosser. I seem to remember Daubney saying "the biggest killer of men under 45 is suicide" and Nicky Campbell turning around and saying "well a lot of women are killed in domestic violence". What???? What an utterly ludicrous comeback, but that's the BBC for you.
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Post by trickydicky73 on Nov 17, 2018 15:04:48 GMT
You immediately disbelieve me, then? I forget his name, but he was on a show with Nicky Campbell and he was pilloried by black women in the audience for pointing out that another ethnicity was doing particularly badly. Metal was pointing out that unless you fit into a minority, you get overlooked. I think I know of the debate you are talking about and the man was Martin Daubney. He put his points across superbly and Nicky Campbell was a complete tosser. I seem to remember Daubney saying "the biggest killer of men under 45 is suicide" and Nicky Campbell turning around and saying "well a lot of women are killing in domestic violence". What???? What an utterly ludicrous comeback, but that's the BBC for you. Yes, that's the one. I was Googling it, and Angela Rayner said something similar, at another time, apparently. I can't remember what the reaction to her comments was.
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Post by thevoid on Nov 17, 2018 15:11:32 GMT
I've no idea mate. No one is forcing anyone to wear them. It even makes them angry as well. I just don't get it. Who's 'them'? I'm fairly confident that gay people don't go around in leather caps and assless chaps, so how do we know they're not already going to football matches in numbers? I'm also fairly confident that putting rainbow colours on corner flags and substitution boards is pointless virtue-signalling window-dressing that will make no difference whatsoever to the number of LGBT people who decide to attend football matches (like anyone else they probably decide whether to attend based on opposition, cost, weather etc, not what colour the flags are). The point I'm making is that most people these days couldn't care less about homosexuality- a community that has a bigger platform than it's ever had- and while myself and people I know wouldn't look twice at a same sex couple going about their day, virtue-signalling stunts like this do tend to produce a rolling of the eyes and the occasional "Here we go again" comment. No fits of rage though- sorry.
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Post by thevoid on Nov 17, 2018 15:15:44 GMT
By the way, I urge the OP to rename the utterly ridiculous thread title. Not only does it come across a tad homophobic, it makes us look like a bunch of backward troglodytes. No it doesn't, just bored by the constant need for virtue-signalling. And the thread title hasn't been changed by myself.
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Post by thevoid on Nov 17, 2018 15:17:34 GMT
No I don’t give a flying fuck what sexuality anyone is or what ithey do behind closed doors I don’t believe a persons sexuality should be exhibited in public including heterosexual It’s all part of the snowflaking of society where we are all supposed to be touchy feely and offer shit load of fake sympathy every time someone’s upset It’s not for me Let me guess You also admire Nigel Farage and want a Brexit so hard your teeth rattle So gay people by default voted Remain? Nice bit of generalising there.
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Post by metalhead on Nov 17, 2018 15:22:00 GMT
By the way, I urge the OP to rename the utterly ridiculous thread title. Not only does it come across a tad homophobic, it makes us look like a bunch of backward troglodytes. No it doesn't, just bored by the constant need for virtue-signalling. And the thread title hasn't been changed by myself. So call the thread: Rainbow Laces - Are we virtue signalling? Put a coherent debate on the table. Rainbore laces? Fuck my life bud. I know for a fact you're smarter than that.
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Post by thevoid on Nov 17, 2018 15:22:40 GMT
I think I know of the debate you are talking about and the man was Martin Daubney. He put his points across superbly and Nicky Campbell was a complete tosser. I seem to remember Daubney saying "the biggest killer of men under 45 is suicide" and Nicky Campbell turning around and saying "well a lot of women are killing in domestic violence". What???? What an utterly ludicrous comeback, but that's the BBC for you. Yes, that's the one. I was Googling it, and Angela Rayner said something similar, at another time, apparently. I can't remember what the reaction to her comments was. Making Angela Rayner Education Secretary is like making Corbyn Chief Rabbi. I wouldn't say no if she offered a tit wank though.
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Post by trickydicky73 on Nov 17, 2018 15:24:04 GMT
Yes, that's the one. I was Googling it, and Angela Rayner said something similar, at another time, apparently. I can't remember what the reaction to her comments was. Making Angela Rayner Education Secretary is like making Corbyn Chief Rabbi. I wouldn't say no if she offered a tit wank though. You're so deep! 😁
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2018 15:26:07 GMT
I'm confused. What is the problem with us doing this? Some people just spend their lives being offended by everything...
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Post by thevoid on Nov 17, 2018 15:27:39 GMT
No it doesn't, just bored by the constant need for virtue-signalling. And the thread title hasn't been changed by myself. So call the thread: Rainbow Laces - Are we virtue signalling? Put a coherent debate on the table. Rainbore laces? Fuck my life bud. I know for a fact you're smarter than that. It's The Oatcake mate not an Oxbridge debating seminar. It's been changed anyway so it's a moot point.
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Post by adi on Nov 17, 2018 15:52:37 GMT
So is it the right thing to do if you see someone who is LGBT, and they make it known, at a football match, that you should high give them and congratulate them for being so brave? Because that’s what it’s starting to look like 😂
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Post by dastokie on Nov 17, 2018 16:48:53 GMT
I think you will find ladies football no one cares about anybodies sexuality.
It's no one in Men's game will come forward. Gareth Thomas, Tom Daley have had no problem within their sports.
I really don't care who shags who just wish we could get a prolific scorer to perform week in week out.
Now shut that door. What a gay day it has been on this message board. It,s all done in the best taste.
there seem to be a lot on here who are awful but I like you.
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Post by felonious on Nov 17, 2018 17:03:54 GMT
It even makes them angry as well. I just don't get it. Who's 'them'? I'm fairly confident that gay people don't go around in leather caps and assless chaps, so how do we know they're not already going to football matches in numbers? I'm also fairly confident that putting rainbow colours on corner flags and substitution boards is pointless virtue-signalling window-dressing that will make no difference whatsoever to the number of LGBT people who decide to attend football matches (like anyone else they probably decide whether to attend based on opposition, cost, weather etc, not what colour the flags are). The point I'm making is that most people these days couldn't care less about homosexuality- a community that has a bigger platform than it's ever had- and while myself and people I know wouldn't look twice at a same sex couple going about their day, virtue-signalling stunts like this do tend to produce a rolling of the eyes and the occasional "Here we go again" comment. No fits of rage though- sorry. It probably gives Stonewall a reason to exist in this day and age. Why emphasise a difference that doesn't exist for surely the vast majority of fans who attend Stoke games.
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Post by metalhead on Nov 17, 2018 17:40:08 GMT
So call the thread: Rainbow Laces - Are we virtue signalling? Put a coherent debate on the table. Rainbore laces? Fuck my life bud. I know for a fact you're smarter than that. It's The Oatcake mate not an Oxbridge debating seminar. It's been changed anyway so it's a moot point. I didn't realise debating was limited to only those at Oxford and Cambridge, thanks for clarifying for me.
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Post by spitthedog on Nov 17, 2018 17:42:00 GMT
Who is this 'someone'???....and where is this 'derision'??? You immediately disbelieve me, then? I forget his name, but he was on a show with Nicky Campbell and he was pilloried by black women in the audience for pointing out that another ethnicity was doing particularly badly. Metal was pointing out that unless you fit into a minority, you get overlooked. You made a very significant statement, the least you can do is to provide evidence, otherwise it is in danger of coming as mere conjecture. If you are basing the fact all minorities get preferential treatment on one incident on Nicky Campbell then that's not totally convincing tbh. I think it's pretty naive to think that all minorities get preferential treatment, though I'm sure there are cases where they do.
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Post by oggyoggy on Nov 17, 2018 17:53:55 GMT
But clearly you do give a flying fuck? Clearly this is something you feel strongly about, or you would just be passively indifferent? And what is this 'constant barrage of propaganda' ... I must be blind and deaf to have missed it all these years? No I don’t give a flying fuck what sexuality anyone is or what ithey do behind closed doors I don’t believe a persons sexuality should be exhibited in public including heterosexual It’s all part of the snowflaking of society where we are all supposed to be touchy feely and offer shit load of fake sympathy every time someone’s upset It’s not for me What’s wrong with holding hands or kissing in public? That’s exhibiting a person’s sexuality in public. There’s only one snowflake here and that’s you. You’re the one upset by some shoelaces!
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Post by oggyoggy on Nov 17, 2018 18:03:06 GMT
I think you will find ladies football no one cares about anybodies sexuality. It's no one in Men's game will come forward. Gareth Thomas, Tom Daley have had no problem within their sports. I really don't care who shags who just wish we could get a prolific scorer to perform week in week out. Now shut that door. What a gay day it has been on this message board. It,s all done in the best taste. there seem to be a lot on here who are awful but I like you. Tom Daley suffers from horrendous homophobic abuse online. It’s awful. That’s why no footballer will come out. Being in the public eye but feeling you have to be careful with every interview you have to do because of the fear of letting slip the gender of your partner. It’s wrong. Homophobia is wrong. Rainbow shoelaces won’t change that, but if they help highlight the problem and create a debate and change a few people from shouting a homophobic slur at a ref/player that makes a mistake then that will be good. Te shoelaces harm nobody and I cannot see one reason why anyone should object.
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Post by trickydicky73 on Nov 17, 2018 18:03:23 GMT
You immediately disbelieve me, then? I forget his name, but he was on a show with Nicky Campbell and he was pilloried by black women in the audience for pointing out that another ethnicity was doing particularly badly. Metal was pointing out that unless you fit into a minority, you get overlooked. You made a very significant statement, the least you can do is to provide evidence, otherwise it is in danger of coming as mere conjecture. If you are basing the fact all minorities get preferential treatment on one incident on Nicky Campbell then that's not totally convincing tbh. I think it's pretty naive to think that all minorities get preferential treatment, though I'm sure there are cases where they do. Not what I said, but crack on.
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Post by thevoid on Nov 17, 2018 19:46:49 GMT
It's The Oatcake mate not an Oxbridge debating seminar. It's been changed anyway so it's a moot point. I didn't realise debating was limited to only those at Oxford and Cambridge, thanks for clarifying for me. I didn't realise I had to run thread titles past you. Can we keep the thread on track, please?
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Post by felonious on Nov 17, 2018 20:00:53 GMT
I didn't realise debating was limited to only those at Oxford and Cambridge, thanks for clarifying for me. I didn't realise I had to run thread titles past you. Can we keep the thread on track, please?
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Post by mattyd on Nov 17, 2018 20:03:10 GMT
I just dont see why people who are not LGBT should wear a badge supporting those who are.
Some people love shagging Asian birds, so can we please wear yellow laces.
I love marmite, and so do others, Brown laces please. ( these could also be worn for other minorities )
I'm all for an all inclusive society, but surely these pointless efforts merely point out that LGBT are a minority.
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Post by wagsastokie on Nov 17, 2018 20:08:32 GMT
I think you will find ladies football no one cares about anybodies sexuality. It's no one in Men's game will come forward. Gareth Thomas, Tom Daley have had no problem within their sports. I really don't care who shags who just wish we could get a prolific scorer to perform week in week out. Now shut that door. What a gay day it has been on this message board. It,s all done in the best taste. there seem to be a lot on here who are awful but I like you. Tom Daley suffers from horrendous homophobic abuse online. It’s awful. That’s why no footballer will come out. Being in the public eye but feeling you have to be careful with every interview you have to do because of the fear of letting slip the gender of your partner. It’s wrong. Homophobia is wrong. Rainbow shoelaces won’t change that, but if they help highlight the problem and create a debate and change a few people from shouting a homophobic slur at a ref/player that makes a mistake then that will be good. Te shoelaces harm nobody and I cannot see one reason why anyone should object. You will never find a post of mine where I have condoned homophobia All forms of abuse based on a person sexuality or colour is completely wrong
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Post by oggyoggy on Nov 17, 2018 20:29:34 GMT
Tom Daley suffers from horrendous homophobic abuse online. It’s awful. That’s why no footballer will come out. Being in the public eye but feeling you have to be careful with every interview you have to do because of the fear of letting slip the gender of your partner. It’s wrong. Homophobia is wrong. Rainbow shoelaces won’t change that, but if they help highlight the problem and create a debate and change a few people from shouting a homophobic slur at a ref/player that makes a mistake then that will be good. Te shoelaces harm nobody and I cannot see one reason why anyone should object. You will never find a post of mine where I have condoned homophobia All forms of abuse based on a person sexuality or colour is completely wrong So why do you hate this shoelace thing then?? What’s to hate?
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Post by philm87 on Nov 17, 2018 20:44:22 GMT
But clearly you do give a flying fuck? Clearly this is something you feel strongly about, or you would just be passively indifferent? And what is this 'constant barrage of propaganda' ... I must be blind and deaf to have missed it all these years? No I don’t give a flying fuck what sexuality anyone is or what ithey do behind closed doors I don’t believe a persons sexuality should be exhibited in public including heterosexual It’s all part of the snowflaking of society where we are all supposed to be touchy feely and offer shit load of fake sympathy every time someone’s upset It’s not for me So if I wanted to kiss my girlfriend in public, you would have a problem with that because I would be exhibiting my heterosexuality? It is ironic you are worrying about snowflakes when some colourful laces has caused you get so angry
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Post by philm87 on Nov 17, 2018 21:01:47 GMT
Who is this 'someone'???....and where is this 'derision'??? He has a point though, even if you don't agree with it. When a minority falls behind for some reason, we go looking for answers why, don't we? Those reasons may not actually exist and may simply be a result of cyclicism but we endeavor to blame it on the majority which 9/10 is working class and white. We blame it on racism, or sexism.... We blame it on institutional prejudice etc etc. However, as of 2018, we're finally in a situation where the young Asian community now generally outperform most working class white kids, and women are absolutely killing it at University compared to men. So where's the outrage? Why aren't we trying to explain how institutional prejudice is preventing white kids from doing well? We don't. Hence my point. There is not a whole lot of support for failing white kids, other than your own school and its performance. Just like there's no support network for white male adults. Like I said, opinions are everywhere and this is mine. I'm left wing, but I am speaking honestly and openly. Let's see how long it is, before people try to shut my offensive opinions down. Nothing wrong with your opinions mate, but what has it got to do with the laces campaign?
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Post by philm87 on Nov 17, 2018 21:11:53 GMT
It even makes them angry as well. I just don't get it. Who's 'them'? I'm fairly confident that gay people don't go around in leather caps and assless chaps, so how do we know they're not already going to football matches in numbers? I'm also fairly confident that putting rainbow colours on corner flags and substitution boards is pointless virtue-signalling window-dressing that will make no difference whatsoever to the number of LGBT people who decide to attend football matches (like anyone else they probably decide whether to attend based on opposition, cost, weather etc, not what colour the flags are). The point I'm making is that most people these days couldn't care less about homosexuality- a community that has a bigger platform than it's ever had- and while myself and people I know wouldn't look twice at a same sex couple going about their day, virtue-signalling stunts like this do tend to produce a rolling of the eyes and the occasional "Here we go again" comment. No fits of rage though- sorry. When I said them I was referring to people like you. I totally get the sentiment about virtue signalling, but to react strongly enough that you would feel it necessary to start a thread on an online messageboard protesting against the campaign sort of suggests it has ruffled your feathers a bit? I suspect a lot of it is pointless, but would be good if there was just some way everyone showing their solidarity with gay people, given that football appears to be about 30 years behind the rest of society? If that were not the case, why have not footballers come out yet and why has the head of the FA warned them against doing so? To deny football has an issue with this is just absurd when you look at the facts. Gay people might have a 'bigger platform' in society in general, but that is clearly not the case in football, hence the idea behind this campaign. I don't profess to know what motivates gay people and as a straight person I wouldn't claim to speak on their behalf. However, if some of them felt uncomfortable being in an atmosphere where homophobic insults were thrown around left right and centre, then whom I am to call them a 'snowflake' for that? It is hard to complain about the 'here we go again' comments when you are the one orchestrating them. You have a choice. You can either sigh to yourself because you think it is all pointless and has been hijacked by rich corporate outfits who don't really care, join in and try and show solidarity with the original principles behind the campaign, or else moan about it publicly and try to work against it. Maybe the campaign will have no effect at all, but I am pretty sure people like you constantly creating negative vibes around it won't help the cause at all? And if, as you say, you are genuinely not bothered about this issue, why not just shut up about it?
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Post by trickydicky73 on Nov 17, 2018 21:14:01 GMT
Tom Daley suffers from horrendous homophobic abuse online. It’s awful. That’s why no footballer will come out. Being in the public eye but feeling you have to be careful with every interview you have to do because of the fear of letting slip the gender of your partner. It’s wrong. Homophobia is wrong. Rainbow shoelaces won’t change that, but if they help highlight the problem and create a debate and change a few people from shouting a homophobic slur at a ref/player that makes a mistake then that will be good. Te shoelaces harm nobody and I cannot see one reason why anyone should object. You will never find a post of mine where I have condoned homophobia All forms of abuse based on a person sexuality or colour is completely wrong But you haven't shouted it from the rooftops, mate. You have to, even though it's stating the bleeding obvious. You can't point out hypocrisy and double standards, or if you do you have to do a cunting article on it or get called out for a lack of evidence. Even if you did it wouldn't be good enough. It is virtue signalling, and you aren't the only one who finds it ridiculous.
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